So which team is exactly going to keep the Warriors from ever getting back to the Finals?

killmongrel · Post #1 » by **killmongrel** » Tue Aug 6, 2019 11:32 pm

People keep saying that the dynasty is over and that the West has gotten way too tough. But who exactly are these teams? We heard this narrative in the summer of 2017 when all of these supposed super teams were forming. And we saw how that turned out. Butler couldn't co-exist with his teammates. The Thunder underwhelmed. And the Rockets couldn't get it done. So we're hearing the same talks again this summer, but I still don't see it.

The reasoning is that the Warriors going forward are going to be older and maybe facing injuries. But the same can be said about these other so-called favorites.

The Lakers are going to be led by 35 year old LBJ and Davis who can't stay healthy.

They're not going to be able to put together a team better than the one they have this team either going forward.

The Clippers is being led by a player who has a degenerative thigh issue, as well as a second option who has suffered shoulder issues. Their roster might also be different going forward as well.

The Rockets? Couldn't beat a short-handed Warriors team. Now they have Westbrick who is on the decline and an aging PJ Tucker. Gordon will probably be gone after this season as well.

Portland? We know this team is the epitome of mediocrity and won't go anywhere until they finally get rid of CJ McCollum.

The Nuggets have a chance to become something formidable. But they are way too young and still not convinced they're anything more than regular season heroes.

The Jazz is the only team that I can say might be a legit team going forward. If Donovan Mitchell takes a step forward, they will have the offense and defense to challenge for as long as Conley stays healthy.

The other teams are not even worth talking about.

The East just does not have the teams either. The Bucks got worse. Philly's window has now been reduced to how long Horford can stay healthy and in his prime. That's not even including Embiid's health. And even then, the makeup of that roster might have issues. The Celtics, who were supposed to own the East for the next several years, aren't doing anything. Brooklyn's future all depends on how KD looks when he returns. And even then, we might not see the best version of KD until the 2021/2022 season. But I'm still in the mindset that KD will soon regret replacing Steph with Kyrie. Pacers just don't have enough. The other teams in the East are just fodder.

So again, where is this scary team that's supposed to stop the Warriors beyond this season? If the Warriors figure out how to either use DLO in their system, or flip him for a significant player that fits better/depth, then the Warriors become the title favorites again as early as 2020/2021. By that time, they'll have more resources to bolster their bench as well. That's why I'm laughing at all these people saying the dynasty is over. By this time next year, I see the Warriors getting criticized for being too stacked.

Coxy · Post #2 » by **Coxy** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 12:10 am

None. We'll get back to the finals.

Scoots1994 · Post #3 » by **Scoots1994** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 4:39 am

I think Portland and Denver are going to be much tougher this year than last. The Jazz, Lakers, and Clippers all have injury/age issues that can derail them too.

The main thing is that the Warriors can maintain their dismissed state, keep managing the minutes of their top 3, keep getting the "rest of the roster" run and developing them while winning 50% of their games, then bump that up to 65% of their games after Klay comes back (even at 80% he will help), and make the playoffs as a 7th seed and scare some teams senseless and see where it takes us.

Post #4 » by **Sleepy51** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 1:55 pm

Generally, you get to conference finals/NBA finals and all the teams involved in the discussion are excellent. The difference usually comes down to "Which team has the best player on the floor."

The only Western conference team that I can see having a player out-perform Curry over a 7 game series would be the Clippers. We have to respect Kawhi's ability even though he was gimpy in this most recent finals.

In the east, it's Giannis (assuming he develops his outside shot.)

In every other matchup, as long as out roster is solid enough to get to the conference finals, I don't see anyone who is hands down a better player than Curry, so we win.

As far as the "Dynasty" being over, sure the era of easy, assured dominance is over, but as long as Curry is prime and healthy we can still win championships, and as long as you do win championships, you are still a dynasty.

I'll add that with our assured dominance era ending, I think the NBA is about to enter a new golden age. Post lebron, there are SO many very good players on good teams that we are going to see miraculous things in the NBA playoffs and even in some regular season matchups with meaning. This would be a great time for the league to look into restructuring the regular season (down to about 50 games) and adding another tournament structure for non-playoff teams. The load management issue shouldn't be allowed to be a boat anchor on what could be an era of fairly widespread glorious basketball played at possibly the highest level ever across the league.

Scoots1994 · Post #5 » by **Scoots1994** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 2:57 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:Generally, you get to conference finals/NBA finals and all the teams involved in the discussion are excellent. The difference usually comes down to "Which team has the best player on the floor."

The only Western conference team that I can see having a player out-perform Curry over a 7 game series would be the Clippers. We have to respect Kawhi's ability even though he was gimpy in this most recent finals.

In the east, it's Giannis (assuming he develops his outside shot.)

In every other matchup, as long as out roster is solid enough to get to the conference finals, I don't see anyone who is hands down a better player than Curry, so we win.

As far as the "Dynasty" being over, sure the era of easy, assured dominance is over, but as long as Curry is prime and healthy we can still win championships, and as long as you do win championships, you are still a dynasty.

I'll add that with our assured dominance era ending, I think the NBA is about to enter a new golden age. Post lebron, there are SO many very good players on good teams that we are going to see miraculous things in the NBA playoffs and even in some regular season matchups with meaning. This would be a great time for the league to look into restructuring the regular season (down to about 50 games) and adding another tournament structure for non-playoff teams. The load management issue shouldn't be allowed to be a boat anchor on what could be an era of fairly widespread glorious basketball played at possibly the highest level ever across the league.

I think the NBA not having nearly as many teams with money next year means good teams are going to be overpaying to keep their players which will drag a bunch of the teams down and the best run teams will continue to have their "gambles" pay off at a higher rate. I think the Lakers will fade the fastest, the Clippers have the biggest injury concerns, I don't trust the Jazz to maintain, the Rockets are getting thinner with each offseason and I don't think they are built to win it all, The Blazers and Warriors are being under-rated. Nuggets are the most interesting team as far as a perennial contender going forward.

SinceGatlingWasARookie · Post #6 » by **SinceGatlingWasARookie** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 5:22 pm

Betting odds
https://www.oddsshark.com/nba/odds/futures
Clippers, Lakers, Rockets, Bucks and 76ers are favored over the Warriors.
Warriors probably won't win the 2020 championship but maybe the Warriors are better than the betting odds think they are.

One of the Clippers or the Lakers should probably knock the Warriors off. Only one of the 2 LA teams has to live up to their upside potential for the Warriors to get stopped.

ILOVEIT · Post #7 » by **ILOVEIT** » Wed Aug 7, 2019 5:42 pm

I made the only sports bet I ever made when picking the Warriors to win it all in 2015. I bet a hundred and won a thousand.

I haven't made a bet since....I'm tempted to make that bet this year.

IF D-Angelo is what he was last year and IF Klay comes back healthy....Warriors will have one team equal to them on paper...and that's the Clippers.

oaktownwarriors87 · Post #8 » by **oaktownwarriors87** » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:59 pm

Draymond can't defend AD or LeBron. That hurts. Looney and one of the wings will need to pick up a lot of slack because both of those guys will torch Klay and/or Green. Our best hope is that the Lakers give DeMarcus Cousins heavy minutes or they go down to the Rockets or Clippers first.

Houston and Clippers can both beat the Warriors, but it could go either way.

Denver, Utah, Portland will all be scary as well. Especially Utah now that they have shooting.

The Warriors really counted on Iguodala to stop/slow guys like Harden and LeBron. Hopefully Kerr can pull his head out of his ass and bring back the magic of the pick-n-roll. Just let Curry and Green be Curry and Green.

cpower · Post #9 » by **cpower** » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:05 pm

which team? Warriors? we are not defensively ready to match up with these teams, until we sort out our defense we are not back to the finals.

KevinMcreynolds · Post #10 » by **KevinMcreynolds** » Thu Aug 8, 2019 6:14 pm

Probably only the Clippers. I doubt the Houston experiment will work. Not worried about the Lakers, their roster is trash besides Lebron and AD. Utah is getting overrated, I think they were a contender if they got Horford, but I don't think they can contend with Gobert in the middle.

CalGTR · Post #11 » by **CalGTR** » Thu Aug 8, 2019 8:18 pm

We have some questions to sort out roster-wise before we'll really be set to make a run at another title. To truly compete this season, at least one of the youngsters is going to have to figure it out real quick. And, the vet wings we picked up are going to have to show they can play at least good defense and be a reasonable threat on offense. Otherwise, we're going to have to wait until 2020 when the front office will have had more time to evaluate the youngsters and/or to shore up the wing spot with a strong defender.

killmongrel · Post #12 » by **killmongrel** » Thu Aug 8, 2019 9:45 pm

CalGTR wrote:We have some questions to sort out roster-wise before we'll really be set to make a run at another title. To truly compete this season, at least one of the youngsters is going to have to figure it out real quick. And, the vet wings we picked up are going to have to show they can play at least good defense and be a reasonable threat on offense. Otherwise, we're going to have to wait until 2020 when the front office will have had more time to evaluate the youngsters and/or to shore up the wing spot with a strong defender.

Agreed. We're going to learn a lot about the team this season and how to proceed going forward. My post was more so about the idea that the dynasty is dead because the Ws have no chance of going back or winning a Finals. Which, after looking at the dynamics of the league, just doesn't make any sense. Maybe they don't compete this year, but I see this team being the title favorites in 2020/2021. And if Steph stays healthy and his prime, they could stay that way for a few years.

CalGTR · Post #13 » by **CalGTR** » Thu Aug 8, 2019 11:12 pm

killmongrel wrote:
CalGTR wrote:We have some questions to sort out roster-wise before we'll really be set to make a run at another title. To truly compete this season, at least one of the youngsters is going to have to figure it out real quick. And, the vet wings we picked up are going to have to show they can play at least good defense and be a reasonable threat on offense. Otherwise, we're going to have to wait until 2020 when the front office will have had more time to evaluate the youngsters and/or to shore up the wing spot with a strong defender.

Agreed. We're going to learn a lot about the team this season and how to proceed going forward. My post was more so about the idea that the dynasty is dead because the Ws have no chance of going back or winning a Finals. Which, after looking at the dynamics of the league, just doesn't make any sense. Maybe they don't compete this year, but I see this team being the title favorites in 2020/2021. And if Steph stays healthy and his prime, they could stay that way for a few years.

No question. A core of Steph, Klay, and Dray is going to compete for championships. Add D'Lo and shore up the bench with a bit of scoring and some defense, and W's should be right back at the top of the heap. There are other good teams out there, but our guys have shown that they have what it takes. For the next several years (with the possible exception of 2019), the W's will be fighting for more titles. It's going to be fun, for sure. It was bizarre being so, so dominant these past several years - there was no option but "title or failure." It won't be like that again, because expectations have changed. But our guys are going to play exciting basketball and are going to go on deep playoff runs. I say they bring home at least one more title before it's all said and done.

HiRez · Post #14 » by **HiRez** » Fri Aug 9, 2019 8:05 pm

The Warriors have some issues to figure out, and some weaknesses, but so does just about every other team out there. There are no true juggernauts but the Clippers should be the biggest challenge. Having said that, there are a lot more very good teams now that are roughly on the Warriors level so they’ll have to run a gauntlet to get there.

I’d give the Dubs a 25% chance of making the Finals because of their still-elite top personnel and experience and a 15% chance of winning it all. A lot of unknowns though.

Jester_ · Post #15 » by **Jester_** » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:06 pm

I honestly don't think the Clippers will be that great... Paul George constantly shrinks in the playoffs, and Kawhi has become overrated (his defence last year really wasn't that great, even in the playoffs). They also lack reliable playmaking.

Im more worried about the Lakers - LeBron is still the best player in the league when he wants to be, and AD will be a monster next to him. Kuzma and Demarcus can both round out into solid 3 options as well.

HiRez · Post #16 » by **HiRez** » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:43 pm

Jester_ wrote:I honestly don't think the Clippers will be that great... Paul George constantly shrinks in the playoffs, and Kawhi has become overrated (his defence last year really wasn't that great, even in the playoffs). They also lack reliable playmaking.

Im more worried about the Lakers - LeBron is still the best player in the league when he wants to be, and AD will be a monster next to him. Kuzma and Demarcus can both round out into solid 3 options as well.

I don't know, the Lakers could be a handful but I still think the lack of depth, age, and injuries will catch up with them. Not to mention this is the first year they've all played together, which isn't disqualifying but it might take some time to figure everything out, especially when it comes to playoff basketball.

But defense wins championships. LeBron probably can't expend enough energy to mount a full defensive effort in every game anymore. It remains to be seen how Cousins' mobility will be post-injury, but I doubt he'll be a huge defensive stopper. Kuzma is average at best defensively (probably below average). AD is very good of course but I don't see a whole team working together on the defensive side extending for whole games.

I'm not completely sold on the Clippers being unstoppable either but Kawhi and PG are an elite defensive tandem, not to mention the Clippers last year gave us headaches even without either Kawhi or PG.

Houston won't be a pushover either if they can find a way to make the Westbrook-Harden dynamic work (which I'll grant you is a big challenge). Those two might foul out our whole team before the 4th quarter.

CS707 · Post #17 » by **CS707** » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:24 am

Lakers will be a problem if they get to the playoffs healthy and with LBJ/AD reasonably fresh.

*If

Money_ · Post #18 » by **Money_** » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:17 am

There are some BiG ifs. Both the Clips and Lakers have the talent this year.
Hell, the Rockets have another shot though I have more faith in that one not working out.
But both the Clips and Lakers still have to figure it out, how its going to work, etc etc...
Clips are deep and I think have a greater probability of meshing faster, they are deeper than the Lakers, and far better defensively. They're a defensive juggernaut..

Lakers have some talent and a bunch of retread vets (I love some of those guys, looking at you Pierre two time) They have a greater chance that things will just not work. Lebron can try to take a team on his shoulders again but they won't get far with just him. Will AD, Kuzma and bench be enough? Vogel won't make it past christmas, and the second things get frustrating for Lebron and not going his way, he'll check out and make another movie... I'll go out on limb here and y'all can call me out if it doesn't go that way, but the "king" is done. They aren't getting it done. So if I'd have to pick one, its the Clippers that are most likely to stop the Warriors from getting to the finals, but I still have to actually see them do it to believe it...

killmongrel · Post #19 » by **killmongrel** » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:51 pm

DMC's injury is just a reminder of how fragile this NBA landscape is. Don't be fooled by the new names on rosters. Even the favorites are have injury concerns going forward that I do not think is sustainable for success in the long term. It's the reason why I do not see the Warriors missing the Finals too long.

I feel bad for Cousins and am not trying to make light of his struggles, but I just don't see any team being durable enough to dominate the league for a while.

xdrta+ · Post #20 » by **xdrta+** » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:38 pm

killmongrel wrote:DMC's injury is just a reminder of how fragile this NBA landscape is. Don't be fooled by the new names on rosters. Even the favorites are have injury concerns going forward that I do not think is sustainable for success in the long term. It's the reason why I do not see the Warriors missing the Finals too long.

I feel bad for Cousins and am not trying to make light of his struggles, but I just don't see any team being durable enough to dominate the league for a while.

I hate to say it, but the Warriors might be the most vulnerable of all. So much, everything in fact, depends on Curry.