RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20

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RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20

Poll ended at Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:32 am

Kevin Durant (BKN)
5
2%
Donovan Mitchell (UTA)
59
25%
Victor Oladipo (IND)
14
6%
Kyle Lowry (TOR)
11
5%
Pascal Siakam (TOR)
103
44%
Chris Paul (OKC)
19
8%
LaMarcus Aldridge (SAS)
3
1%
Mike Conley (UTA)
5
2%
CJ McCollum (POR)
11
5%
DeMar DeRozan (SAS)
4
2%
 
Total votes: 234

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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#41 » by Bhut Jolokia » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:05 pm

Vote: Mitchell #23 (Siakam #24, McCollum #25)

Nominate: Booker

Others: Klay, Porzingis, Fox, Drummond, Vucevic and D’lo
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#42 » by Crives » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:05 pm

Nominate Book
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#43 » by illuminati666 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:10 pm

Catchall wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Shoot, score, run the offense, create looks, and carry a team offensively. Lets see what Siakam looks like this year, now that he's forced to be a #1 option.


Stop reading at ''shoot, score'' what even is that supposed to mean?? loool Siakam is a much more efficient scorer.
And clearly you didn't watch a single Raptors game last year in which Kawhi didn't play.


Mitchell is a better shooter, scorer and offensive creator. That's what it means.

I get that you love your Raptors, and Siakam is a deserving MIP. He's a very valuable contract, but he's not a top 25 player, imo.

Mitchell > Siakam rn.....but Lowry should've been in a while ago
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#44 » by TrustFundBaby » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:15 pm

Catchall wrote:Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?


Kristaps: he hasn't played for like 18 months, we have to see how he does on DAL as the #2 option first.

Harris: Siakam is the better defender, more efficient, better playmaker. In the Playoffs Siakam elevated his game, meanwhile Harris shrunk against the Raptors

Randle: lol, is this a joke? Empty stats, can't play defense, can't shoot, Has no business being mentioned here
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#45 » by KqWIN » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:18 pm

Catchall wrote:Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?


Kristaps is an unknown at this point.


Siakam is on par with Tobias as a scorer. He's not the shooter, but he's a better creator for himself and others with his dribble drive and transition game. Considering that Siakam is a all defense type defender and Tobias is below average, this isn't a particularly close discussion in my mind.

I suppose Randle is similar to Siakam offensively, but again, defense matters. You're comparing a really good defender to someone who is below average and potentially at liability status.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#46 » by notericjr » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:42 pm

i voted siakam. guy was a monster in the playoffs and with kawhi gone i feel like he really moves up a couple levels this season since he will likely see the ball more and has much more responsibility than ever before.

wouldnt be surprised when we do this again next off season that he'll be in the top 10-15 range
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#47 » by lebron stopper » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:05 pm

KqWIN wrote:
Catchall wrote:Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?


Kristaps is an unknown at this point.


Siakam is on par with Tobias as a scorer. He's not the shooter, but he's a better creator for himself and others with his dribble drive and transition game. Considering that Siakam is a all defense type defender and Tobias is below average, this isn't a particularly close discussion in my mind.

I suppose Randle is similar to Siakam offensively, but again, defense matters. You're comparing a really good defender to someone who is below average and potentially at liability status.


Kristaps Porzingis is underwhelming as an offensive player to me. (1) For someone that tall who can just shoot over anyone like he's Kevin Durant or something, you'd think he'd be way more efficient as a scorer. His career TS average is 53.5%, he shoots 63.1% for his career from 0-3 feet which is underwhelming for someone his size, and the majority of his shots are from the mid-range or three-point areas. (2) Take a look at his playtypes (ie. isolation) and you see that his percentiles aren't very high in many of these categories. In fact, some of them are shockingly low.

I'd personally take Pascal Siakam over all of those three, especially over Tobias Harris and Julius Randle for the reasons you state. Siakam and Porzingis is a much closer call, but I'd still take Siakam because he's the better offensive player IMO (in terms of scoring the ball and creating offense for himself and others).
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#48 » by Asif16 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:17 pm

Catchall wrote:Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?


Julius Randle?

You can't be serious :lol:
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#49 » by KqWIN » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:31 pm

lebron stopper wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Catchall wrote:Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?


Kristaps is an unknown at this point.


Siakam is on par with Tobias as a scorer. He's not the shooter, but he's a better creator for himself and others with his dribble drive and transition game. Considering that Siakam is a all defense type defender and Tobias is below average, this isn't a particularly close discussion in my mind.

I suppose Randle is similar to Siakam offensively, but again, defense matters. You're comparing a really good defender to someone who is below average and potentially at liability status.


Kristaps Porzingis is underwhelming as an offensive player to me. (1) For someone that tall who can just shoot over anyone like he's Kevin Durant or something, you'd think he'd be way more efficient as a scorer. His career TS average is 53.5%, he shoots 63.1% for his career from 0-3 feet which is underwhelming for someone his size, and the majority of his shots are from the mid-range or three-point areas. (2) Take a look at his playtypes (ie. isolation) and you see that his percentiles aren't very high in many of these categories. In fact, some of them are shockingly low.

I'd personally take Pascal Siakam over all of those three, especially over Tobias Harris and Julius Randle for the reasons you state. Siakam and Porzingis is a much closer call, but I'd still take Siakam because he's the better offensive player IMO (in terms of scoring the ball and creating offense for himself and others).


Offensively I agree. I think there's a general misunderstanding of how he plays. Yes he shoots 3's and can be a vertical threat at the rim with his size...but in the end he's a really mid range heavy player. I don't think we should murder him for his efficiency because of his heavy usage, but it's interesting how Mitchell's efficiency becomes his entire identity when it's essentially the same as Porzingis.

Defensively, however, he might be underrated. He's been really strong from a +/- perspective since he came into the league.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#50 » by Catchall » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:52 pm

Asif16 wrote:
Catchall wrote:Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?


Julius Randle?

You can't be serious :lol:


Julius Randle: 21.7 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 3.1 apg, 55.5% eFG%, 21.0 PER

Offensively, Randle was comparable or better last year than Siakam.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#51 » by VanWest82 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:01 pm

Voted Siakam. I feel like everyone lost their minds in the teens voting for Gobert, KAT, and Draymond about five spots too high. There are players on this list that might be better than those guys. For sure healthy Oladipo is better. Siakam and Mitchell are close.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#52 » by rzzzzz » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:12 pm

i thought Siakam looked like a legitimate star in the playoffs.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#53 » by RaptorPride » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:16 pm

rzzzzz wrote:i thought Siakam looked like a legitimate star in the playoffs.

My boy dropped 32 8 and 5 shooting 82% 14/17 and 2/3 from three on Draymond in game 1.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#54 » by NZB2323 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:39 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:In no way, shape, or form is Mitchell a better all-around player than Siakam.

Mitchell:
Image

Siakam:
Image

Playoffs:

Mitchell:
Image

Siakam (suffered a calf contusion game 3 vs Philly):
Image

Come on now people. Let's not lie to ourselves.
Y'all know damn well who's the better player.



Siakam was better than Mitchell last year, but this poll isn't for who was the better player last year. Mitchell was only 22 last year, he's killing it with team USA, and he'll have more spacing with Conley and Bojan.

So many players have had a breakout year after playing well with Team USA. As a Bulls fan, the most memorable time for me was Rose's MVP year. Even if you feel that Rose shouldn't have won MVP, he was a top 5 player that year. However, the previous year Joe Johnson and Brandon Roy beat out Rose for the all-NBA 3rd team, and they were better than Rose in 2010. They wern't better than Rose in 2011. I think Mitchell will be better than a lot of guys who were better than him last year.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#55 » by iggymcfrack » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:41 pm

Players who averaged at least 16.7 PPG with a TS% of .628 or higher last year:

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Steph Curry
Danilo Gallinari
Kevin Durant
Pascal Siakam

If you open it up a little bit to say 15 PPG, you get guys like Gobert and Capela that play a different role, but Siakam’s a legitimate creator who’s capable of being a #1 option when he’s not next to the #1 player in the league. He’s an offensive star already while also being one of the best defensive players in the league. Really glad to see him finally going here. I had him #13 overall.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#56 » by lakerz12 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:55 pm

Nominate Vucevic
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#57 » by KqWIN » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:56 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:Players who averaged at least 16.7 PPG with a TS% of .628 or higher last year:

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Steph Curry
Danilo Gallinari
Kevin Durant
Pascal Siakam

If you open it up a little bit to say 15 PPG, you get guys like Gobert and Capela that play a different role, but Siakam’s a legitimate creator who’s capable of being a #1 option when he’s not next to the #1 player in the league. He’s an offensive star already while also being one of the best defensive players in the league. Really glad to see him finally going here. I had him #13 overall.


He's got some good indicators, but we'll see how he is as the number one option and the extent to which that becomes his role at all.

His usage without Kawhi was 22.6%. That's about the same as Ibaka (22.9%) was overall. Ibaka was 26.2% w/o Kawhi.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#58 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:00 pm

Catchall wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
Catchall wrote:Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?


Julius Randle?

You can't be serious :lol:


Julius Randle: 21.7 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 3.1 apg, 55.5% eFG%, 21.0 PER

Offensively, Randle was comparable or better last year than Siakam.


I'm so confused as to why you continue to make false statements about Siakam when you've never seen him play. Because let's be honest, you've never seen him play.

Randle:
Image

Siakam:
Image

Please tell us how Randle was comparable/better last year than Siakam offensively.
And do you just totally ignore defense when evaluating players?
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#59 » by LoveMyRaps » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 pm

rzzzzz wrote:i thought Siakam looked like a legitimate star in the playoffs.


That's because he is. He loves when the spotlight is on him.

I made this thread last year a month before the playoffs started: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1819249

His ability to perform at a high level in big games is the reason why I believe he'll blossom into a superstar.
That's what separates the stars from superstars, being able to stay composed and not fold under pressure.

He was able to average 19/7/3 even though he suffered a calf contusion in game 3 vs Philly.
You know who scored the most points in the first game (W) and last game of the NBA finals (W)? Siakam. 32 & 26 respectively.
Oh and he also scored the game winning basket :wink:

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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#60 » by zimpy27 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:05 pm

Siakam, CP3, Oladipo round out the rest for me.
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