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Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason?

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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#21 » by MaseInYourFace » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:31 am

While I think some of what OP wrote is well thought out I don’t think this was some grand plan. It’s still a bit of an awkward roster fit on both sides of the ball. I actually assumed the original idea of this thread would be a discussion on possible trade implications of a roster built like this. Something along the lines of the Knicks being a team targeted for trades at F/C if need comes about.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#22 » by Adelheid » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:29 am

Morris has matured seemingly compared to the days he and his twin were together while being an effective player in BOS. Capable veteran in his prime I would say.

Taj is a part of the tough defensive bulls culture. His leadership will be needed to grow these youngins. A better Lance Thomas perhaps?

Payton will compete with DSJ for starting pg. This should be interesting. Frank should work on his pathetic shot. But he looks to be more aggressive driving and using his handling skills in this FIBA Tourney. The vet frontcourt players will help Meetch cut down on his foul rate.

This all looks promising.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#23 » by Knicksfan1992 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:21 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:While I think some of what OP wrote is well thought out I don’t think this was some grand plan. It’s still a bit of an awkward roster fit on both sides of the ball. I actually assumed the original idea of this thread would be a discussion on possible trade implications of a roster built like this. Something along the lines of the Knicks being a team targeted for trades at F/C if need comes about.


I certainly think thats a part of the FOs thinking just didn't want to end up writing a novel lol
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#24 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:33 pm

K-DOT wrote:I mean, the method is clear. Get decent guys who push the kids to play hard and only keep the books open for 2021

We didn't sign a single bad player this offseason, and we didn't give out a single bad contract

My issues mostly come from the fact that guys like Morris and Portis are just here to use us to stat pad their way into long term deals after this year. Also, not a big fan of the Randle signing

Like, you're right that you can hide him, but you're missing the key component. Jrue Holiday. With Jrue, Randle was a +4, without he was a -9. Pretty stark difference. Then if you isolate Randle with Jrue, AD, and Payton individually, he's a +4 with both of Jrue or AD, and a -4 with Payton. AD and Jrue are both massive positives, and Randle and Payton spent a lot of time with them. All the stats to me point to, if you have good enough players around Randle, he won't hold you back. But we don't. He's really kind of like the PF version of Kanter. And really, Knox should be playing PF, by signing multiple decent PFs, you relegate him to purely SF, which I don't think he should be

To me, Portis, Morris, Ellington, and Bullock are no different than last year having Mudiay, Vonleh, DJ, and Mario. I don't think any of them will be here next year. Randle I can't see being here after 2021 unless we strike out again (which is extremely possible). I actually really liked the Gibson signing, he's the type of guy I want, someone who's just gonna come in for a few minutes a game, be a good role model for the kids and push them in practice, plus old enough to where he doesn't think he's gonna get big money after this year so he isn't upset that the kids get more minutes than him

I don't really have huge complaints, even though I disagree with who we brought in, they're all on short term deals. I just question if Perry can actually build a competitive team in 2, 3 years based off the moves he made this offseason.


While I don't disagree with the overall post, I don't see it as negative as you do.

Randle, while having some warts as a PF, does fall in the Kanter/THJr of PF's, to a degree, the difference that the commitment is shorter than Timmay! He's also a more willing passer, for his position, than I think THJr was, for his, and a willing and somewhat skilled passer at PF is a nice get, along with his scoring.
I mean, I could see the wariness of tying too much money in a player who kind of feels like he'd be a 3rd option on a good team, but Randle still possess enough upside where he could wind up as a clear #2 option on a good team, and if he doesn't, the commit isn't that long.

There's a certain redundancy to Morris/Portis, even though I figure Morris was a response to finding out Bollocks was hurt/fell into their lap when he pivoted away from the Spurs.

I'm not worried about "Knox not getting to be a 4" because Knox is a developmental player, like Frank was/is, who isn't who he's going to be yet, and was OVER played last year. Plus, I don't think he has the strength to be a 4 yet, so if it is his position, he's a couple of years away from being able to play it anyway. To that end, the Knicks needed a 3, so Morris wound up being it, even though he's a 3/4.

Portis, while I think was "A PF Too Far" (Cornelius Ryan reference), the thing that makes sense as a recommendation is that he'll split time at PF/C backing up both positions, and he has the ability to shoot the 3 and jump shot to bring a stretch the floor big off the bench. (2010 the first to point this out) Again, I get with Morris and Gibson present, is that really needed, but again, timing of Bullocks injury etc.

Agreed on the other signings, other than Ellington, as if a team is going to have a "designated shooter" on the bench, at least have a good one, even if it's just for a year.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#25 » by Adelheid » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:50 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
K-DOT wrote:I mean, the method is clear. Get decent guys who push the kids to play hard and only keep the books open for 2021

We didn't sign a single bad player this offseason, and we didn't give out a single bad contract

My issues mostly come from the fact that guys like Morris and Portis are just here to use us to stat pad their way into long term deals after this year. Also, not a big fan of the Randle signing

Like, you're right that you can hide him, but you're missing the key component. Jrue Holiday. With Jrue, Randle was a +4, without he was a -9. Pretty stark difference. Then if you isolate Randle with Jrue, AD, and Payton individually, he's a +4 with both of Jrue or AD, and a -4 with Payton. AD and Jrue are both massive positives, and Randle and Payton spent a lot of time with them. All the stats to me point to, if you have good enough players around Randle, he won't hold you back. But we don't. He's really kind of like the PF version of Kanter. And really, Knox should be playing PF, by signing multiple decent PFs, you relegate him to purely SF, which I don't think he should be

To me, Portis, Morris, Ellington, and Bullock are no different than last year having Mudiay, Vonleh, DJ, and Mario. I don't think any of them will be here next year. Randle I can't see being here after 2021 unless we strike out again (which is extremely possible). I actually really liked the Gibson signing, he's the type of guy I want, someone who's just gonna come in for a few minutes a game, be a good role model for the kids and push them in practice, plus old enough to where he doesn't think he's gonna get big money after this year so he isn't upset that the kids get more minutes than him

I don't really have huge complaints, even though I disagree with who we brought in, they're all on short term deals. I just question if Perry can actually build a competitive team in 2, 3 years based off the moves he made this offseason.


While I don't disagree with the overall post, I don't see it as negative as you do.

Randle, while having some warts as a PF, does fall in the Kanter/THJr of PF's, to a degree, the difference that the commitment is shorter than Timmay! He's also a more willing passer, for his position, than I think THJr was, for his, and a willing and somewhat skilled passer at PF is a nice get, along with his scoring.
I mean, I could see the wariness of tying too much money in a player who kind of feels like he'd be a 3rd option on a good team, but Randle still possess enough upside where he could wind up as a clear #2 option on a good team, and if he doesn't, the commit isn't that long.

There's a certain redundancy to Morris/Portis, even though I figure Morris was a response to finding out Bollocks was hurt/fell into their lap when he pivoted away from the Spurs.

I'm not worried about "Knox not getting to be a 4" because Knox is a developmental player, like Frank was/is, who isn't who he's going to be yet, and was OVER played last year. Plus, I don't think he has the strength to be a 4 yet, so if it is his position, he's a couple of years away from being able to play it anyway. To that end, the Knicks needed a 3, so Morris wound up being it, even though he's a 3/4.

Portis, while I think was "A PF Too Far" (Cornelius Ryan reference), the thing that makes sense as a recommendation is that he'll split time at PF/C backing up both positions, and he has the ability to shoot the 3 and jump shot to bring a stretch the floor big off the bench. Again, I get with Morris and Gibson present, is that really needed, but again, timing of Bullocks injury etc.

Agreed on the other signings, other than Ellington, as if a team is going to have a "designated shooter" on the bench, at least have a good one, even if it's just for a year.


If a player is a willing passer then I consider that a significant upgrade over Enes/THjr, both guys having almost nil court vision. I woudnt lump Randle together with that group. Just need for Julius to fix and improve his defense.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#26 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:36 pm

Adelheid wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
K-DOT wrote:I mean, the method is clear. Get decent guys who push the kids to play hard and only keep the books open for 2021

We didn't sign a single bad player this offseason, and we didn't give out a single bad contract

My issues mostly come from the fact that guys like Morris and Portis are just here to use us to stat pad their way into long term deals after this year. Also, not a big fan of the Randle signing

Like, you're right that you can hide him, but you're missing the key component. Jrue Holiday. With Jrue, Randle was a +4, without he was a -9. Pretty stark difference. Then if you isolate Randle with Jrue, AD, and Payton individually, he's a +4 with both of Jrue or AD, and a -4 with Payton. AD and Jrue are both massive positives, and Randle and Payton spent a lot of time with them. All the stats to me point to, if you have good enough players around Randle, he won't hold you back. But we don't. He's really kind of like the PF version of Kanter. And really, Knox should be playing PF, by signing multiple decent PFs, you relegate him to purely SF, which I don't think he should be

To me, Portis, Morris, Ellington, and Bullock are no different than last year having Mudiay, Vonleh, DJ, and Mario. I don't think any of them will be here next year. Randle I can't see being here after 2021 unless we strike out again (which is extremely possible). I actually really liked the Gibson signing, he's the type of guy I want, someone who's just gonna come in for a few minutes a game, be a good role model for the kids and push them in practice, plus old enough to where he doesn't think he's gonna get big money after this year so he isn't upset that the kids get more minutes than him

I don't really have huge complaints, even though I disagree with who we brought in, they're all on short term deals. I just question if Perry can actually build a competitive team in 2, 3 years based off the moves he made this offseason.


While I don't disagree with the overall post, I don't see it as negative as you do.

Randle, while having some warts as a PF, does fall in the Kanter/THJr of PF's, to a degree, the difference that the commitment is shorter than Timmay! He's also a more willing passer, for his position, than I think THJr was, for his, and a willing and somewhat skilled passer at PF is a nice get, along with his scoring.
I mean, I could see the wariness of tying too much money in a player who kind of feels like he'd be a 3rd option on a good team, but Randle still possess enough upside where he could wind up as a clear #2 option on a good team, and if he doesn't, the commit isn't that long.

There's a certain redundancy to Morris/Portis, even though I figure Morris was a response to finding out Bollocks was hurt/fell into their lap when he pivoted away from the Spurs.

I'm not worried about "Knox not getting to be a 4" because Knox is a developmental player, like Frank was/is, who isn't who he's going to be yet, and was OVER played last year. Plus, I don't think he has the strength to be a 4 yet, so if it is his position, he's a couple of years away from being able to play it anyway. To that end, the Knicks needed a 3, so Morris wound up being it, even though he's a 3/4.

Portis, while I think was "A PF Too Far" (Cornelius Ryan reference), the thing that makes sense as a recommendation is that he'll split time at PF/C backing up both positions, and he has the ability to shoot the 3 and jump shot to bring a stretch the floor big off the bench. Again, I get with Morris and Gibson present, is that really needed, but again, timing of Bullocks injury etc.

Agreed on the other signings, other than Ellington, as if a team is going to have a "designated shooter" on the bench, at least have a good one, even if it's just for a year.


If a player is a willing passer then I consider that a significant upgrade over Enes/THjr, both guys having almost nil court vision. I woudnt lump Randle together with that group. Just need for Julius to fix and improve his defense.


I had him grouped with them as 3rd/2nd option kind of guy, not the passing.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#27 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:44 pm

I have my doubts with how all these pieces fit together for next year. I am not a fan of how Randle fits in with our core tbh as I see defense and spacing issues next to Mitch/RJ. He will put up numbers, just not sure they will have a big impact on wins and could be to the detriment of others. Portis is a bad defender too, so its hard to see how those 2 could play together at the same time. But I am willing to wait and see and hopefully it works out. He has been working on his game and could get even better.

It will be interesting to see how Fiz works out the rotations. Overall I am more focused on our younger players and hope they can develop and get enough minutes. It will be tricky to blend the right youth and vets, and balanced lineups. Its probably impossible to keep everyone happy.

I am not expecting a ton of wins, but if we can make some improvements, see some development from some of the younger guys it’s a start at least. I am ok with that.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#28 » by Adelheid » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:46 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Adelheid wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
While I don't disagree with the overall post, I don't see it as negative as you do.

Randle, while having some warts as a PF, does fall in the Kanter/THJr of PF's, to a degree, the difference that the commitment is shorter than Timmay! He's also a more willing passer, for his position, than I think THJr was, for his, and a willing and somewhat skilled passer at PF is a nice get, along with his scoring.
I mean, I could see the wariness of tying too much money in a player who kind of feels like he'd be a 3rd option on a good team, but Randle still possess enough upside where he could wind up as a clear #2 option on a good team, and if he doesn't, the commit isn't that long.

There's a certain redundancy to Morris/Portis, even though I figure Morris was a response to finding out Bollocks was hurt/fell into their lap when he pivoted away from the Spurs.

I'm not worried about "Knox not getting to be a 4" because Knox is a developmental player, like Frank was/is, who isn't who he's going to be yet, and was OVER played last year. Plus, I don't think he has the strength to be a 4 yet, so if it is his position, he's a couple of years away from being able to play it anyway. To that end, the Knicks needed a 3, so Morris wound up being it, even though he's a 3/4.

Portis, while I think was "A PF Too Far" (Cornelius Ryan reference), the thing that makes sense as a recommendation is that he'll split time at PF/C backing up both positions, and he has the ability to shoot the 3 and jump shot to bring a stretch the floor big off the bench. Again, I get with Morris and Gibson present, is that really needed, but again, timing of Bullocks injury etc.

Agreed on the other signings, other than Ellington, as if a team is going to have a "designated shooter" on the bench, at least have a good one, even if it's just for a year.


If a player is a willing passer then I consider that a significant upgrade over Enes/THjr, both guys having almost nil court vision. I woudnt lump Randle together with that group. Just need for Julius to fix and improve his defense.


I had him grouped with them as 3rd/2nd option kind of guy, not the passing.



Point taken. I would agree to that as well.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#29 » by Knicksfan1992 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:14 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:I have my doubts with how all these pieces fit together for next year. I am not a fan of how Randle fits in with our core tbh as I see defense and spacing issues next to Mitch/RJ. He will put up numbers, just not sure they will have a big impact on wins and could be to the detriment of others. Portis is a bad defender too, so its hard to see how those 2 could play together at the same time. But I am willing to wait and see and hopefully it works out. He has been working on his game and could get better.

It will be interesting to see how Fiz works out the rotations. Overall I am more focused on our younger players and hope they can develop and get enough minutes. It will be tricky to blend the right youth and vets, and balanced lineups. Its probably impossible to keep everyone happy.

I am not expecting a ton of wins, but if we can make some improvements, see some development from some of the younger guys it’s a start at least. I am ok with that.


You bring up valid points but let me pose you this... Last year was the first year Randle shot the 3 ball with any sort of consistent volume and he shot 34% which isn't great but also not terrible for a first year really attempting 3's. (Knox shot a similar percentage last year for reference.) Combine that with a consistently decent free throw percentage and a great touch around the rim which makes me believe there's reason to be bullish that Randle can be a consistent floor spacer at the 4 next to Mitch which would also open up his ability to attack closeouts and bully his way to the rim where we know he's extremely efficient.

Also Randle is basically slotting into Vonleh's role last year. While it might be somewhat of a drop off defensively, I think there's no question that Randle will be much more efficient and consistent than Vonleh was offensively and I think Randle isn't far away from being a passable defender in the right scheme.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#30 » by Capn'O » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:27 pm

At the end of the day the Knicks offseason comes down to whether Randle and RJ look like long term starting pieces on a great team. The questions are:

Randle's gonna score but can he defend? And
Does RJ look like a player that can do a bit of everything or the tunnel vision guy he looked like at Duke?

And hopefully the vets can move both players towards this goal.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#31 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:12 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I have my doubts with how all these pieces fit together for next year. I am not a fan of how Randle fits in with our core tbh as I see defense and spacing issues next to Mitch/RJ. He will put up numbers, just not sure they will have a big impact on wins and could be to the detriment of others. Portis is a bad defender too, so its hard to see how those 2 could play together at the same time. But I am willing to wait and see and hopefully it works out. He has been working on his game and could get better.

It will be interesting to see how Fiz works out the rotations. Overall I am more focused on our younger players and hope they can develop and get enough minutes. It will be tricky to blend the right youth and vets, and balanced lineups. Its probably impossible to keep everyone happy.

I am not expecting a ton of wins, but if we can make some improvements, see some development from some of the younger guys it’s a start at least. I am ok with that.


You bring up valid points but let me pose you this... Last year was the first year Randle shot the 3 ball with any sort of consistent volume and he shot 34% which isn't great but also not terrible for a first year really attempting 3's. (Knox shot a similar percentage last year for reference.) Combine that with a consistently decent free throw percentage and a great touch around the rim which makes me believe there's reason to be bullish that Randle can be a consistent floor spacer at the 4 next to Mitch which would also open up his ability to attack closeouts and bully his way to the rim where we know he's extremely efficient.

Also Randle is basically slotting into Vonleh's role last year. While it might be somewhat of a drop off defensively, I think there's no question that Randle will be much more efficient and consistent than Vonleh was offensively and I think Randle isn't far away from being a passable defender in the right scheme.


Yeah, that is definetly possible Randle keeps improving as a shooter. If he develops into a good/avg shooter it would be a huge plus.

Until they all play together, it's hard to say for sure what it will look like for sure. Its an interesting mix with a lot of new faces.
Even defensivly you could be right. There's def the possibility that they fit and it works. I think you did a good job showing how its possible.

I like to stay pessimistic, but also hopeful there's a chance. Would love to see it all come together and work well.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#32 » by Knicksfan1992 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:24 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I have my doubts with how all these pieces fit together for next year. I am not a fan of how Randle fits in with our core tbh as I see defense and spacing issues next to Mitch/RJ. He will put up numbers, just not sure they will have a big impact on wins and could be to the detriment of others. Portis is a bad defender too, so its hard to see how those 2 could play together at the same time. But I am willing to wait and see and hopefully it works out. He has been working on his game and could get better.

It will be interesting to see how Fiz works out the rotations. Overall I am more focused on our younger players and hope they can develop and get enough minutes. It will be tricky to blend the right youth and vets, and balanced lineups. Its probably impossible to keep everyone happy.

I am not expecting a ton of wins, but if we can make some improvements, see some development from some of the younger guys it’s a start at least. I am ok with that.


You bring up valid points but let me pose you this... Last year was the first year Randle shot the 3 ball with any sort of consistent volume and he shot 34% which isn't great but also not terrible for a first year really attempting 3's. (Knox shot a similar percentage last year for reference.) Combine that with a consistently decent free throw percentage and a great touch around the rim which makes me believe there's reason to be bullish that Randle can be a consistent floor spacer at the 4 next to Mitch which would also open up his ability to attack closeouts and bully his way to the rim where we know he's extremely efficient.

Also Randle is basically slotting into Vonleh's role last year. While it might be somewhat of a drop off defensively, I think there's no question that Randle will be much more efficient and consistent than Vonleh was offensively and I think Randle isn't far away from being a passable defender in the right scheme.


Yeah, that is definetly possible Randle keeps improving as a shooter. If he develops into a good/avg shooter it would be a huge plus.

Until they all play together, it's hard to say for sure what it will look like for sure. Its an interesting mix with a lot of new faces.
Even defensivly you could be right. There's def the possibility that they fit and it works. I think you did a good job showing how its possible.

I like to stay pessimistic, but also hopeful there's a chance. Would love to see it all come together and work well.


Yeah and I think you're correct to stay pessimistic. There are way more outcomes where the Knicks are bad defensively than good but I just wanted to provide the scenario where this all works and everyone on the team is in a good role unless you're attached to the hip to Frank lol. I really don't see a scenario where he's getting more than 15-20 mpg.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#33 » by JohnStarksTheDunk » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:00 pm

Capn'O wrote:At the end of the day the Knicks offseason comes down to whether Randle and RJ look like long term starting pieces on a great team. The questions are:

Randle's gonna score but can he defend? And
Does RJ look like a player that can do a bit of everything or the tunnel vision guy he looked like at Duke?

And hopefully the vets can move both players towards this goal.


I'll add another question:
Is Fiz legit?
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#34 » by Stannis » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Good points. Everyone makes jokes about the PFs they have, including myself. But in reality, they just have 5, 2 of them can play center, and only 1 center. So I think they might have like 1 PF too many. Which was why the Morris signing was kind of a wtf to me. He's good. But how does he fit into this team?

They had to sign some talented players.

Knicks can't let RJ go out there and try to play hero ball all the time. That can do some long term damage, imo.

The FO needs to see what Fiz is capable of. They spent money. You don't have the most ideal team, but you still have to show some promise.
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robillionaire wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:Cheapest place to get Knicks tickets?

when they play at the barclays center :lol:
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#35 » by Capn'O » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:18 pm

^Morris apparently played some 3 with the Celtics and I think that's what he'll do here.
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RIP Mags :beer:
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#36 » by melo4three » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:41 pm

Capn'O wrote:^Morris apparently played some 3 with the Celtics and I think that's what he'll do here.



Boston is the only place Morris played the 4 exclusively, and that is just because they had 3 small forwards already and morris is the best option for them at the 4
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#37 » by BKlutch » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:59 pm

I'm trying to understand what the logic was behind the FA signings this summer. I know, a lot of folks just think that Perry decided to use up all the cap space since almost everyone expires or has a team option next summer. But I don't think he just matched up dollars with slots. He may not have succeeded, but I'm sure there was a rationale behind the moves.

First, let's assume that all year, Perry was scouting all the players who would become FAs, and had a rough idea of what it would take to sign each one of them. Yes, there were some surprises - for example, Morris was unepectedly available on the chea. So Perry ha his FAs all ranked and knew that if the didn't get KD and KI, he would just use his "shopping" list to buy some FAs for this year.

Most of us were surpised by all the bigs. I don't believe this was unintentional.

Perry knows that most teams are really guard centered and depend a lot on wings. He also knows that we are developing some guards and may or may not have some good ones. Kyrie and Kemba were available, but he didn't want Kyrie unless it brought a healthy KD, and Kemba may not have been worth the $$ compared to letting our guys develop on a timetable. So why all the bigs?

I believe that Perry is planning to use his endless supply of bigs to overwhelm other front lines. Recognizing that we won't be able to compete in wings and back court this year, he is going for outplaying other teams by overwhelming them with bodies on the front lines. It doesn't mean he doesn't see the need for a good point guard and wings, just that he knows they will take time and his front court may make it hard for other teams to match up well over 48 minutes.

At least, it's no worse than starting Kanter as your center.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#38 » by Knicksfan1992 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 pm

BKlutch wrote:I'm trying to understand what the logic was behind the FA signings this summer. I know, a lot of folks just think that Perry decided to use up all the cap space since almost everyone expires or has a team option next summer. But I don't think he just matched up dollars with slots. He may not have succeeded, but I'm sure there was a rationale behind the moves.

First, let's assume that all year, Perry was scouting all the players who would become FAs, and had a rough idea of what it would take to sign each one of them. Yes, there were some surprises - for example, Morris was unepectedly available on the chea. So Perry ha his FAs all ranked and knew that if the didn't get KD and KI, he would just use his "shopping" list to buy some FAs for this year.

Most of us were surpised by all the bigs. I don't believe this was unintentional.

Perry knows that most teams are really guard centered and depend a lot on wings. He also knows that we are developing some guards and may or may not have some good ones. Kyrie and Kemba were available, but he didn't want Kyrie unless it brought a healthy KD, and Kemba may not have been worth the $$ compared to letting our guys develop on a timetable. So why all the bigs?

I believe that Perry is planning to use his endless supply of bigs to overwhelm other front lines. Recognizing that we won't be able to compete in wings and back court this year, he is going for outplaying other teams by overwhelming them with bodies on the front lines. It doesn't mean he doesn't see the need for a good point guard and wings, just that he knows they will take time and his front court may make it hard for other teams to match up well over 48 minutes.

At least, it's no worse than starting Kanter as your center.



I think the Knicks biggest strength this year is that we are super deep. We may not have elite talent at the top but we have like 10 guys who you could see getting playing time on a good team. I think this kind of separates us from the truly bottom of the barrel teams in the league. We'll see though... it could not all gel and we're probably still a Randle or Mitch injury away from being at the bottom of the lottery.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#39 » by BKlutch » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:13 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
BKlutch wrote:I'm trying to understand what the logic was behind the FA signings this summer. I know, a lot of folks just think that Perry decided to use up all the cap space since almost everyone expires or has a team option next summer. But I don't think he just matched up dollars with slots. He may not have succeeded, but I'm sure there was a rationale behind the moves.

First, let's assume that all year, Perry was scouting all the players who would become FAs, and had a rough idea of what it would take to sign each one of them. Yes, there were some surprises - for example, Morris was unepectedly available on the chea. So Perry ha his FAs all ranked and knew that if the didn't get KD and KI, he would just use his "shopping" list to buy some FAs for this year.

Most of us were surpised by all the bigs. I don't believe this was unintentional.

Perry knows that most teams are really guard centered and depend a lot on wings. He also knows that we are developing some guards and may or may not have some good ones. Kyrie and Kemba were available, but he didn't want Kyrie unless it brought a healthy KD, and Kemba may not have been worth the $$ compared to letting our guys develop on a timetable. So why all the bigs?

I believe that Perry is planning to use his endless supply of bigs to overwhelm other front lines. Recognizing that we won't be able to compete in wings and back court this year, he is going for outplaying other teams by overwhelming them with bodies on the front lines. It doesn't mean he doesn't see the need for a good point guard and wings, just that he knows they will take time and his front court may make it hard for other teams to match up well over 48 minutes.

At least, it's no worse than starting Kanter as your center.



I think the Knicks biggest strength this year is that we are super deep. We may not have elite talent at the top but we have like 10 guys who you could see getting playing time on a good team. I think this kind of separates us from the truly bottom of the barrel teams in the league. We'll see though... it could not all gel and we're probably still a Randle or Mitch injury away from being at the bottom of the lottery.

Agree. But LA is a Lebron or AD injury away from contending. Or did Boogie already do them in? And the Nets have to hope KD can play something like KD used to play...

I think the league may start to embrace bigs more, as the first team that really wins with bigs will change things just like Golden State changed things. The only constant in the NBA is change.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#40 » by melo4three » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:20 pm

BKlutch wrote:I'm trying to understand what the logic was behind the FA signings this summer. I know, a lot of folks just think that Perry decided to use up all the cap space since almost everyone expires or has a team option next summer. But I don't think he just matched up dollars with slots. He may not have succeeded, but I'm sure there was a rationale behind the moves.

First, let's assume that all year, Perry was scouting all the players who would become FAs, and had a rough idea of what it would take to sign each one of them. Yes, there were some surprises - for example, Morris was unepectedly available on the chea. So Perry ha his FAs all ranked and knew that if the didn't get KD and KI, he would just use his "shopping" list to buy some FAs for this year.

Most of us were surpised by all the bigs. I don't believe this was unintentional.

Perry knows that most teams are really guard centered and depend a lot on wings. He also knows that we are developing some guards and may or may not have some good ones. Kyrie and Kemba were available, but he didn't want Kyrie unless it brought a healthy KD, and Kemba may not have been worth the $$ compared to letting our guys develop on a timetable. So why all the bigs?

I believe that Perry is planning to use his endless supply of bigs to overwhelm other front lines. Recognizing that we won't be able to compete in wings and back court this year, he is going for outplaying other teams by overwhelming them with bodies on the front lines. It doesn't mean he doesn't see the need for a good point guard and wings, just that he knows they will take time and his front court may make it hard for other teams to match up well over 48 minutes.

At least, it's no worse than starting Kanter as your center.


I disagree, I think with an reasonable and expected breakout from dsj the knicks could have one the best backcourts in the east.

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