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Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year?

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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#41 » by return2glory » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:19 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:The last thing Tatum and Brown should be thinking about is making the all star game. There was way too much selfishness on last year;s team: no ball movement, too many ISO's, i.e. guys trying to "create their own shot" instead of running the offense.

I'll take a 55 or 60 win team without a single all star. Carmello Anthony was a 10-time all star and got past the first round of the playoffs exactly once.


So with this logic, all star players are selfish.

Tatum should definitely aim to be an all-star because that means he has elevated his game to a very high level. Being an all-star is not something that’s easy to do.

As far as Brown, there is nothing that he had done in this league at resembles anything close to an all-star. I know lot of people here will disagree and that’s normal since it’s a Celtic board. But Brown has had the same issues since day one of being a Celtic. Ball handling issues, poor BBIQ, which includes below average passing and court awareness. Not to mention poor FT shooting.

If Brown became at all star next season, to me it would mean he made great strides in improving his all around game and it wouldn’t be because he was selfish. And I would be happy for Brown and this team if he became an all-star. The more all-stars on this team, the better.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#42 » by sully00 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:42 pm

return2glory wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:The last thing Tatum and Brown should be thinking about is making the all star game. There was way too much selfishness on last year;s team: no ball movement, too many ISO's, i.e. guys trying to "create their own shot" instead of running the offense.

I'll take a 55 or 60 win team without a single all star. Carmello Anthony was a 10-time all star and got past the first round of the playoffs exactly once.


So with this logic, all star players are selfish.

Tatum should definitely aim to be an all-star because that means he has elevated his game to a very high level. Being an all-star is not something that’s easy to do.

As far as Brown, there is nothing that he had done in this league at resembles anything close to an all-star. I know lot of people here will disagree and that’s normal since it’s a Celtic board. But Brown has had the same issues since day one of being a Celtic. Ball handling issues, poor BBIQ, which includes below average passing and court awareness. Not to mention poor FT shooting.

If Brown became at all star next season, to me it would mean he made great strides in improving his all around game and it wouldn’t be because he was selfish. And I would be happy for Brown and this team if he became an all-star. The more all-stars on this team, the better.


I think we hyper focus on Brown's faults way too much and often miss what the rest of the NBA sees. The rest of the NBA can see a really athletic player who is willing to commit defensively and is fearless in big spots. He may never be a 5 apg guy but he could be an elite 3 and D wing who can do some special things athletically. I am not concerned about the All Star thing I want championships and the rest will follow.

The fascinating part of this season for me is that we will likely revisit a similar starting line up that we felt essentially failed at the start of last season. I looked back over the starting line up numbers and basically the team had two starting line ups over the season and neither of them was much better than .500. The line up with Brown and Hayward went 7-6 and the Morris and Smart unit went 19-14. For almost half the season (36 games) they played 21 different random starting line ups none for more than 5 games and they went 23-13.

At first it makes me question the value of having a set starting line up but to be fair some of that is cherry picking as guys like Horford and Irving would take off games against bad teams. The other piece is the Baynes factor. I think his impact ironically contributed to both his and Horford's departure. The two were really good together defensively but not really productive offensively getting a combined 18 ppg and 10 rpg when the teams your competing with our getting a combined 40/20 from those two spots. It is why Kanter makes sense from a production standpoint even if kind of a horror show defensively historically.

But can a starting unit that includes Hayward/Brown and Tatum be effective on both ends. Can they defend well enough and rebound enough next to a productive big to offset the front courts in PHI and MIL. Is there enough shots and touches to make the most of the fire power in that line up.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#43 » by sam_I_am » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:49 pm

sully00 wrote:
return2glory wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:The last thing Tatum and Brown should be thinking about is making the all star game. There was way too much selfishness on last year;s team: no ball movement, too many ISO's, i.e. guys trying to "create their own shot" instead of running the offense.

I'll take a 55 or 60 win team without a single all star. Carmello Anthony was a 10-time all star and got past the first round of the playoffs exactly once.


So with this logic, all star players are selfish.

Tatum should definitely aim to be an all-star because that means he has elevated his game to a very high level. Being an all-star is not something that’s easy to do.

As far as Brown, there is nothing that he had done in this league at resembles anything close to an all-star. I know lot of people here will disagree and that’s normal since it’s a Celtic board. But Brown has had the same issues since day one of being a Celtic. Ball handling issues, poor BBIQ, which includes below average passing and court awareness. Not to mention poor FT shooting.

If Brown became at all star next season, to me it would mean he made great strides in improving his all around game and it wouldn’t be because he was selfish. And I would be happy for Brown and this team if he became an all-star. The more all-stars on this team, the better.


I think we hyper focus on Brown's faults way too much and often miss what the rest of the NBA sees. The rest of the NBA can see a really athletic player who is willing to commit defensively and is fearless in big spots. He may never be a 5 apg guy but he could be an elite 3 and D wing who can do some special things athletically. I am not concerned about the All Star thing I want championships and the rest will follow.

The fascinating part of this season for me is that we will likely revisit a similar starting line up that we felt essentially failed at the start of last season. I looked back over the starting line up numbers and basically the team had two starting line ups over the season and neither of them was much better than .500. The line up with Brown and Hayward went 7-6 and the Morris and Smart unit went 19-14. For almost half the season (36 games) they played 21 different random starting line ups none for more than 5 games and they went 23-13.

At first it makes me question the value of having a set starting line up but to be fair some of that is cherry picking as guys like Horford and Irving would take off games against bad teams. The other piece is the Baynes factor. I think his impact ironically contributed to both his and Horford's departure. The two were really good together defensively but not really productive offensively getting a combined 18 ppg and 10 rpg when the teams your competing with our getting a combined 40/20 from those two spots. It is why Kanter makes sense from a production standpoint even if kind of a horror show defensively historically.

But can a starting unit that includes Hayward/Brown and Tatum be effective on both ends. Can they defend well enough and rebound enough next to a productive big to offset the front courts in PHI and MIL. Is there enough shots and touches to make the most of the fire power in that line up.


Sully, you make a great point. Kanter/Tatum might get 36/15 a game while giving up 40/20. However, one would hope that Kemba/Hayward/Brown plus a solid bench might be able to make up the difference and then some against 85% of NBA. I can see us being a flawed 55 win team that nobody believes can get past Bucks or 76ers. However, it buys the team time to showcase Brown and Hayward and to develop the Williamses and Langford etc. into desirable trade chips and then who knows what could happen at trade deadline.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#44 » by Curmudgeon » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:16 pm

I don't know what "all-star level" means. The real question is whether or not Tatum and Brown can make the leap to the NBA finals. I know what that means.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#45 » by Celticfan_N_FL » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:50 pm

Don't care about "leaps" right now. All I want is to see both guys make improvements to the areas of their games that are below average. In many ways it felt like a lost season last year for their development.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#46 » by canman1971 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm

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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#47 » by Andrew McCeltic » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:06 pm

sully00 wrote:
return2glory wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:The last thing Tatum and Brown should be thinking about is making the all star game. There was way too much selfishness on last year;s team: no ball movement, too many ISO's, i.e. guys trying to "create their own shot" instead of running the offense.

I'll take a 55 or 60 win team without a single all star. Carmello Anthony was a 10-time all star and got past the first round of the playoffs exactly once.


So with this logic, all star players are selfish.

Tatum should definitely aim to be an all-star because that means he has elevated his game to a very high level. Being an all-star is not something that’s easy to do.

As far as Brown, there is nothing that he had done in this league at resembles anything close to an all-star. I know lot of people here will disagree and that’s normal since it’s a Celtic board. But Brown has had the same issues since day one of being a Celtic. Ball handling issues, poor BBIQ, which includes below average passing and court awareness. Not to mention poor FT shooting.

If Brown became at all star next season, to me it would mean he made great strides in improving his all around game and it wouldn’t be because he was selfish. And I would be happy for Brown and this team if he became an all-star. The more all-stars on this team, the better.


I think we hyper focus on Brown's faults way too much and often miss what the rest of the NBA sees. The rest of the NBA can see a really athletic player who is willing to commit defensively and is fearless in big spots. He may never be a 5 apg guy but he could be an elite 3 and D wing who can do some special things athletically.


Any comps like that? We’ve all mentioned Harrison Barnes, but.. if Jaylen never really gets his handles and awareness together but is strong, athletic, defensively locked in, hits threes, attacks gaps in the defense and has a post up game..
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#48 » by Slartibartfast » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:03 pm

Andrew McCeltic wrote:
sully00 wrote:
return2glory wrote:
So with this logic, all star players are selfish.

Tatum should definitely aim to be an all-star because that means he has elevated his game to a very high level. Being an all-star is not something that’s easy to do.

As far as Brown, there is nothing that he had done in this league at resembles anything close to an all-star. I know lot of people here will disagree and that’s normal since it’s a Celtic board. But Brown has had the same issues since day one of being a Celtic. Ball handling issues, poor BBIQ, which includes below average passing and court awareness. Not to mention poor FT shooting.

If Brown became at all star next season, to me it would mean he made great strides in improving his all around game and it wouldn’t be because he was selfish. And I would be happy for Brown and this team if he became an all-star. The more all-stars on this team, the better.


I think we hyper focus on Brown's faults way too much and often miss what the rest of the NBA sees. The rest of the NBA can see a really athletic player who is willing to commit defensively and is fearless in big spots. He may never be a 5 apg guy but he could be an elite 3 and D wing who can do some special things athletically.


Any comps like that? We’ve all mentioned Harrison Barnes, but.. if Jaylen never really gets his handles and awareness together but is strong, athletic, defensively locked in, hits threes, attacks gaps in the defense and has a post up game..


Shawn Marion is the star version of that archetype.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#49 » by Tiny ball » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:01 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:I don't know what "all-star level" means. The real question is whether or not Tatum and Brown can make the leap to the NBA finals. I know what that means.

They sure were close with 60 million dollars not playing.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#50 » by Tiny ball » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:04 pm

Celticfan_N_FL wrote:Don't care about "leaps" right now. All I want is to see both guys make improvements to the areas of their games that are below average. In many ways it felt like a lost season last year for their development.

If you are playing ball 3 times a week for months even dealing with drama queens and thugs you must learn and develop.imho
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#51 » by GuyClinch » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:18 pm

The biggest problem for these two will be Stevens and the offense, IMHO.

He likes a pass friendly offense high BBIQ offense but what we have seen out of these guys is mediocre decision making and poor passing. Because these guys are below average as passers (not Kanter level bad) - they need to be really drilled on making passes when appropriate, picking good shots or good times to drive.

Tatum in particular spends way to much clock time setting up for low percentage shots. Brown will get tentative and start passing on shots he should take and passing when he doesn't need to - or not driving at all. Stevens needs to coach these guys up - and not be afraid to hit their ego a little bit.

Hayward wasn't a great passer in college but in the pros seems far more capable - so there is hope. But out of both of these guys I haven't seen the decisive play you need to be a star. Pierce wasn't the greatest passer either - but he became well above average and yet knew when he should try to score and drive. He made few great passes - but made lots of decent ones.

I think both guys have the raw offensive skills to be all-stars. Tatum can take and make difficult shots - and can make easy ones too. Brown has great quickness and could easily make a living just driving to the hoop and getting fouled. But can they learn the thinking part of the game.. How to be a better team player on offense and play within Brad's system - yet still be aggressive.

Jury is still out. This is why Brown isn't resigned and people aren't sure if Tatum really will be a star. Highlight clips - they both have the individual moves. But team play? I dunno. Unlike most posters I don't think its a skill problem - its a strategy/tactics issue with them. Brown suffers so much from his **** college experience, IMHO. He learned plenty of faux intellectualism but **** about basketball. Tatum does not have that excuse.. but he is a very young.

I am excited to see what will happen - but it wouldn't shock me at all to see someone like Romeo soar past them both. At the pro level everyone is pretty athletic so you need some basketball smarts to dominate.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#52 » by cloverleaf » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:28 pm

GuyClinch wrote:The biggest problem for these two will be Stevens and the offense, IMHO.

He likes a pass friendly offense high BBIQ offense but what we have seen out of these guys is mediocre decision making and poor passing. Because these guys are below average as passers (not Kanter level bad) - they need to be really drilled on making passes when appropriate, picking good shots or good times to drive.

Tatum in particular spends way to much clock time setting up for low percentage shots. Brown will get tentative and start passing on shots he should take and passing when he doesn't need to - or not driving at all. Stevens needs to coach these guys up - and not be afraid to hit their ego a little bit.

Hayward wasn't a great passer in college but in the pros seems far more capable - so there is hope. But out of both of these guys I haven't seen the decisive play you need to be a star. Pierce wasn't the greatest passer either - but he became well above average and yet knew when he should try to score and drive. He made few great passes - but made lots of decent ones.

I think both guys have the raw offensive skills to be all-stars. Tatum can take and make difficult shots - and can make easy ones too. Brown has great quickness and could easily make a living just driving to the hoop and getting fouled. But can they learn the thinking part of the game.. How to be a better team player on offense and play within Brad's system - yet still be aggressive.

Jury is still out. This is why Brown isn't resigned and people aren't sure if Tatum really will be a star. Highlight clips - they both have the individual moves. But team play? I dunno. Unlike most posters I don't think its a skill problem - its a strategy/tactics issue with them. Brown suffers so much from his **** college experience, IMHO. He learned plenty of faux intellectualism but **** about basketball. Tatum does not have that excuse.. but he is a very young.

I am excited to see what will happen - but it wouldn't shock me at all to see someone like Romeo soar past them both. At the pro level everyone is pretty athletic so you need some basketball smarts to dominate.


JB needs more BB smarts and vision in general, but his larger issue than getting timid is just plowing into a crowd for a shot without the wherewithal or ability to make a timely pass out to a teammate, whereas JT needs to be more persistent at taking it to the hoop. And Hayward is a great passer and smart player who will probably take Horford's place in being the secondary playmaker on O.

I don't see Brad as particularly to be holding either Jay back on becoming stars. And the C's as far as I can recall have zero record, for good reason, of extending players on their rookie contracts more than two months before the deadline.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#53 » by Parliament10 » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:27 am

cloverleaf wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:The biggest problem for these two will be Stevens and the offense, IMHO.

He likes a pass friendly offense high BBIQ offense but what we have seen out of these guys is mediocre decision making and poor passing. Because these guys are below average as passers (not Kanter level bad) - they need to be really drilled on making passes when appropriate, picking good shots or good times to drive.

Tatum in particular spends way to much clock time setting up for low percentage shots. Brown will get tentative and start passing on shots he should take and passing when he doesn't need to - or not driving at all. Stevens needs to coach these guys up - and not be afraid to hit their ego a little bit.

Hayward wasn't a great passer in college but in the pros seems far more capable - so there is hope. But out of both of these guys I haven't seen the decisive play you need to be a star. Pierce wasn't the greatest passer either - but he became well above average and yet knew when he should try to score and drive. He made few great passes - but made lots of decent ones.

I think both guys have the raw offensive skills to be all-stars. Tatum can take and make difficult shots - and can make easy ones too. Brown has great quickness and could easily make a living just driving to the hoop and getting fouled. But can they learn the thinking part of the game.. How to be a better team player on offense and play within Brad's system - yet still be aggressive.

Jury is still out. This is why Brown isn't resigned and people aren't sure if Tatum really will be a star. Highlight clips - they both have the individual moves. But team play? I dunno. Unlike most posters I don't think its a skill problem - its a strategy/tactics issue with them. Brown suffers so much from his **** college experience, IMHO. He learned plenty of faux intellectualism but **** about basketball. Tatum does not have that excuse.. but he is a very young.

I am excited to see what will happen - but it wouldn't shock me at all to see someone like Romeo soar past them both. At the pro level everyone is pretty athletic so you need some basketball smarts to dominate.


JB needs more BB smarts and vision in general, but his larger issue than getting timid is just plowing into a crowd for a shot without the wherewithal or ability to make a timely pass out to a teammate, whereas JT needs to be more persistent at taking it to the hoop. And Hayward is a great passer and smart player who will probably take Horford's place in being the secondary playmaker on O.

I don't see Brad as particularly to be holding either Jay back on becoming stars. And the C's as far as I can recall have zero record, for good reason, of extending players on their rookie contracts more than two months before the deadline.

Tatum, is just more of a Natural than is Brown. -- But, I can see Brown getting on at least one All-Star team.
Tatum, on the other hand, will get some Starts as an All-Star.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#54 » by cloverleaf » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:16 pm

I agree that JB has some real strengths that make him valuable and some of his ball handling limitations for example make him complementary to a lineup that needs both ball handlers and elite "role" players. His defensive potential won't be realized until he plays smarter and more consistent team D, but he is still young and that could well materialize as early as this coming season. I think all the young guys--TR, JB and JT--had the bad example of all-about-them PGs as the team stars for all their time so far in the NBA. (KI and IT before that.) It will be interesting to see how well the remaining young guys from that era adjust and recover this season.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#55 » by cloverleaf » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:25 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:The biggest problem for these two will be Stevens and the offense, IMHO.

He likes a pass friendly offense high BBIQ offense but what we have seen out of these guys is mediocre decision making and poor passing. Because these guys are below average as passers (not Kanter level bad) - they need to be really drilled on making passes when appropriate, picking good shots or good times to drive.

Tatum in particular spends way to much clock time setting up for low percentage shots. Brown will get tentative and start passing on shots he should take and passing when he doesn't need to - or not driving at all. Stevens needs to coach these guys up - and not be afraid to hit their ego a little bit.

Hayward wasn't a great passer in college but in the pros seems far more capable - so there is hope. But out of both of these guys I haven't seen the decisive play you need to be a star. Pierce wasn't the greatest passer either - but he became well above average and yet knew when he should try to score and drive. He made few great passes - but made lots of decent ones.

I think both guys have the raw offensive skills to be all-stars. Tatum can take and make difficult shots - and can make easy ones too. Brown has great quickness and could easily make a living just driving to the hoop and getting fouled. But can they learn the thinking part of the game.. How to be a better team player on offense and play within Brad's system - yet still be aggressive.

Jury is still out. This is why Brown isn't resigned and people aren't sure if Tatum really will be a star. Highlight clips - they both have the individual moves. But team play? I dunno. Unlike most posters I don't think its a skill problem - its a strategy/tactics issue with them. Brown suffers so much from his **** college experience, IMHO. He learned plenty of faux intellectualism but **** about basketball. Tatum does not have that excuse.. but he is a very young.

I am excited to see what will happen - but it wouldn't shock me at all to see someone like Romeo soar past them both. At the pro level everyone is pretty athletic so you need some basketball smarts to dominate.


JB needs more BB smarts and vision in general, but his larger issue than getting timid is just plowing into a crowd for a shot without the wherewithal or ability to make a timely pass out to a teammate, whereas JT needs to be more persistent at taking it to the hoop. And Hayward is a great passer and smart player who will probably take Horford's place in being the secondary playmaker on O.

I don't see Brad as particularly to be holding either Jay back on becoming stars. And the C's as far as I can recall have zero record, for good reason, of extending players on their rookie contracts more than two months before the deadline.

Tatum, is just more of a Natural than is Brown. -- But, I can see Brown getting on at least one All-Star team.
Tatum, on the other hand, will get some Starts as an All-Star.


Agreed. I see JB making a couple of AS games and JT more than that. One is a wing and the other a "swing" and they are complimentary in skills. RA's limited repertoire as a SG in '86 made it easier for the "new big 3" to mesh. JB as a 2-way player with some real offensive strengths in a similarly limited way (not needing the ball as much, which is good considering his limited passing awareness) could really help a championship lineup to mesh as well. They still IMO need him to improve his play by play D and someone like an RW to mature into a defensive center role for the team to be its most potent, which is why a trade by the deadline wouldn't surprise me if neither he nor VP can step up for that role this year.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#56 » by cloverleaf » Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:26 pm

Parliament10 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
GuyClinch wrote:The biggest problem for these two will be Stevens and the offense, IMHO.

He likes a pass friendly offense high BBIQ offense but what we have seen out of these guys is mediocre decision making and poor passing. Because these guys are below average as passers (not Kanter level bad) - they need to be really drilled on making passes when appropriate, picking good shots or good times to drive.

Tatum in particular spends way to much clock time setting up for low percentage shots. Brown will get tentative and start passing on shots he should take and passing when he doesn't need to - or not driving at all. Stevens needs to coach these guys up - and not be afraid to hit their ego a little bit.

Hayward wasn't a great passer in college but in the pros seems far more capable - so there is hope. But out of both of these guys I haven't seen the decisive play you need to be a star. Pierce wasn't the greatest passer either - but he became well above average and yet knew when he should try to score and drive. He made few great passes - but made lots of decent ones.

I think both guys have the raw offensive skills to be all-stars. Tatum can take and make difficult shots - and can make easy ones too. Brown has great quickness and could easily make a living just driving to the hoop and getting fouled. But can they learn the thinking part of the game.. How to be a better team player on offense and play within Brad's system - yet still be aggressive.

Jury is still out. This is why Brown isn't resigned and people aren't sure if Tatum really will be a star. Highlight clips - they both have the individual moves. But team play? I dunno. Unlike most posters I don't think its a skill problem - its a strategy/tactics issue with them. Brown suffers so much from his **** college experience, IMHO. He learned plenty of faux intellectualism but **** about basketball. Tatum does not have that excuse.. but he is a very young.

I am excited to see what will happen - but it wouldn't shock me at all to see someone like Romeo soar past them both. At the pro level everyone is pretty athletic so you need some basketball smarts to dominate.


JB needs more BB smarts and vision in general, but his larger issue than getting timid is just plowing into a crowd for a shot without the wherewithal or ability to make a timely pass out to a teammate, whereas JT needs to be more persistent at taking it to the hoop. And Hayward is a great passer and smart player who will probably take Horford's place in being the secondary playmaker on O.

I don't see Brad as particularly to be holding either Jay back on becoming stars. And the C's as far as I can recall have zero record, for good reason, of extending players on their rookie contracts more than two months before the deadline.

Tatum, is just more of a Natural than is Brown. -- But, I can see Brown getting on at least one All-Star team.
Tatum, on the other hand, will get some Starts as an All-Star.


Agreed. I see JB making a couple of AS games and JT more than that. One is a wing and the other a "swing" and they are complimentary in skills. RA's limited repertoire as a SG in '86 made it easier for the "new big 3" to mesh. JB as a 2-way player with some real offensive strengths in a similarly limited way (not needing the ball as much, which is good considering his limited passing awareness) could really help a championship lineup to mesh as well. They still IMO need him to improve his play by play D and someone like an RW to mature into a defensive center role for the team to be its most potent, which is why a trade by the deadline wouldn't surprise me if neither he nor VP can step up for that role this year.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#57 » by Tiny ball » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:53 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
Parliament10 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
JB needs more BB smarts and vision in general, but his larger issue than getting timid is just plowing into a crowd for a shot without the wherewithal or ability to make a timely pass out to a teammate, whereas JT needs to be more persistent at taking it to the hoop. And Hayward is a great passer and smart player who will probably take Horford's place in being the secondary playmaker on O.

I don't see Brad as particularly to be holding either Jay back on becoming stars. And the C's as far as I can recall have zero record, for good reason, of extending players on their rookie contracts more than two months before the deadline.

Tatum, is just more of a Natural than is Brown. -- But, I can see Brown getting on at least one All-Star team.
Tatum, on the other hand, will get some Starts as an All-Star.


Agreed. I see JB making a couple of AS games and JT more than that. One is a wing and the other a "swing" and they are complimentary in skills. RA's limited repertoire as a SG in '86 made it easier for the "new big 3" to mesh. JB as a 2-way player with some real offensive strengths in a similarly limited way (not needing the ball as much, which is good considering his limited passing awareness) could really help a championship lineup to mesh as well. They still IMO need him to improve his play by play D and someone like an RW to mature into a defensive center role for the team to be its most potent, which is why a trade by the deadline wouldn't surprise me if neither he nor VP can step up for that role this year.
I just don't think RW can play many minutes at center against many teams. He looks just too small to play center?
Is he even bigger than Simmons and he plays point guard? He looks like a 4 to me that does not have the skills to play the 4? Project hope he likes Lobster.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#58 » by Patsfan1081 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:04 am

No Morris, Rozier, and Al should open up the attempts for one to at the very least post 18 a game. I think it will be Tatum with Brown hovering around 16 ppg.
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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#59 » by BostonCouchGM » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:26 pm

It's embarrassing for anyone's basketball knowledge for them to think Jaylen Brown could possibly make an all-star game. The guy can't dribble. He has horrible BBIQ and is an average, extremely overrated, defender. He isn't a playmaker and he isn't a natural basketball player....more an athlete who plays basketball than an athletic basketball player. How do guys putting up 13-4-1 get talked about as all-stars? I just don't get it. I know, there were many laughable articles/lists that had him ranked as a top 50 player last season. Hilarious. I didn't think anyone actually took that seriously but reading some of these comments I guess I was wrong.

There are only 2 guards for each team that start. Then there are another 8-10 total reserve guards. So Jaylen would need to be a top 15
guard in order to make an all-star game. Think about all the great young guards drafted these past few years who are better than him that haven't made an all-star yet who he'll need to beat out, as well as those guys who have made one that he has zero chance of beating out, plus those just drafted, who, once developed, he won't beat out. Then consider next year is a filthy loaded draft class especially with guards he'll need to also compete with. Jaylen shouldn't even be a consideration tbh. He's nowhere near the talent or player of these guys. He's not a top 100 player. It really is laughable. It's as ridiculous as if someone tried arguing that Jeremy Lamb could make a "leap" and make an all-star game. This "debate" needs to die.

Here's a list of guys Jaylen would need to beat out. He'd need to be one of the top 15 of these guys. And there are another dozen I didn't list who are similar players, who, like Jaylen, shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as all-star, and who have similar numbers/production as him. Guys like Lamb, Joe Harris, Gary Harris, Dinwiddie, Dunn, Clarkson, Green, Bradley, etc. Seriously folks, Jaylen has no chance. Heck, by mid-season we may be seeing Langford taking playing time away from him and most certainly will be our shooting guard next season.

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Re: Can Brown/Tatum make leap to all-star level this year? 

Post#60 » by iliyanvs » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:23 pm

Yawn, you should be a basketball genius. Its more than obvious Jaylen has a lot better ceiling than a 15/4 guy. He's a 22 year old player that spent last season in a bad chemistry Celtic team, what a shame he didn't make all nba team, how could he...
Now, let's get real, he has shown he can be an above average from three, he can make his own shot, he IS an awesome defender, he is crazy athletic. The only thing I don't like about him is that he has no playmaking skills, which by itself isn't good, but we never expected him to have some.
If we shake off the toxicity from last year and we don't let some unproven egos impose themselves, and by that I DON'T mean JT and JB, we should have a surprisingly, for some, good season.
So let's stop sh*ting on our young guys and f*cking support the team, OK?

Edit: Jaylen could easily end up being a better player than at least 70% of the guys in your list. What a guru you are, you should get on Espn.

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