ImageImage

Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

User avatar
smauss
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,716
And1: 419
Joined: Jul 23, 2005
Contact:
     

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#621 » by smauss » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:22 pm

I'm not nearly as concerned about his scoring. I'm much more concerned him thinking he's Curly Neal. He needs to cut hid TO's down, and make better bball decisions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app
"Too many people ask for help, and sometimes you have to help yourself." - Jerry Sloan (CBQ is missed)

simul justus et peccator
User avatar
ReasonablySober
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,025
And1: 34,750
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
Contact:

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#622 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:37 pm

Feel like his game is gonna get better with age.
DrWood
Head Coach
Posts: 6,497
And1: 2,383
Joined: Jul 08, 2014

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#623 » by DrWood » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:48 pm

crkone wrote:Sweats too much for my liking = Not in shape.

doesn't sweat enough. Not maximum effort.
User avatar
skones
RealGM
Posts: 36,969
And1: 17,101
Joined: Jul 20, 2004
Location: Milwaukee
       

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#624 » by skones » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:52 pm

I fully expect Middleton to be better this season with more offensive opportunity and more comfort in Bud's system. I DO think part of the frustration, particularly when he was struggling, stemmed from him knowing he was very much playing for a contract, and understandably so.

And before someone says something dumb like, "WELL HE IS LAZY MAYBE HE WILL JUST MAIL IT IN" he certainly didn't the last time he got a fat payday. Make no mistake, that 5/70 he signed was fat at the time.
mattg
General Manager
Posts: 7,563
And1: 2,985
Joined: Feb 12, 2007

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#625 » by mattg » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:27 pm

smauss wrote:I'm not nearly as concerned about his scoring. I'm much more concerned him thinking he's Curly Neal. He needs to cut hid TO's down, and make better bball decisions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app

The nonchalant comments have always stemmed from his ball handling. He doesn’t always dribble with a purpose, doesn’t always protect his dribble with his off hand or body, Dribbles too high/slow, tries to make an advanced move in tight space, etc. that’s when his silly turnovers happen, and mostly they could be prevented with better focus. Also, the trying to create off the bounce when a defender is applying heavy ball pressure and in his shorts is no bueno. He doesn’t have the burst or advanced handle to punish guys who do that to him so when he tries to he usually just loses the ball. It’s sort of a frustrating lack of self awareness thing because it’s been an issue since the first season he was here and we tried letting him run some PnRs and it really hasn’t notably improved at all.

The frustration overall with Khris comes from the boneheaded turnovers mostly and defensive laziness. Because they are such simple fundamental things that anyone who has even played the lowest levels of organized basketball can understand and can’t excuse. Its like if middle school aged kids can be bothered to sprint to a close out, or fight hard over a screen, why can’t a professional? Why does he just give up on a lot of plays? Same with the dribbling. When a dude is crowding Khris and he doesn’t use his offhand to guard against reaches and then his defender takes the ball from him it’s just a total “wtf are you doing dude?” Moment. Especially since those kinds of turnovers are literally the single worst play you can have happen in basketball that happens regularly.
soxperry
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,038
And1: 2,920
Joined: Jul 08, 2018
     

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#626 » by soxperry » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:28 pm

Khris just needs to get better at catch and shoot 3s. Im sure he can, i just think it will take time. He has been a pull up, rhythm shooter his whole career. Hes good at it but not good enough to warrant letting him iso a big chunk of the game like Kawhi or something.
jute2003
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,746
And1: 2,297
Joined: Feb 20, 2013
     

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#627 » by jute2003 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:43 pm

mattg wrote:
smauss wrote:I'm not nearly as concerned about his scoring. I'm much more concerned him thinking he's Curly Neal. He needs to cut hid TO's down, and make better bball decisions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app

The nonchalant comments have always stemmed from his ball handling. He doesn’t always dribble with a purpose, doesn’t always protect his dribble with his off hand or body, Dribbles too high/slow, tries to make an advanced move in tight space, etc. that’s when his silly turnovers happen, and mostly they could be prevented with better focus. Also, the trying to create off the bounce when a defender is applying heavy ball pressure and in his shorts is no bueno. He doesn’t have the burst or advanced handle to punish guys who do that to him so when he tries to he usually just loses the ball. It’s sort of a frustrating lack of self awareness thing because it’s been an issue since the first season he was here and we tried letting him run some PnRs and it really hasn’t notably improved at all.

The frustration overall with Khris comes from the boneheaded turnovers mostly and defensive laziness. Because they are such simple fundamental things that anyone who has even played the lowest levels of organized basketball can understand and can’t excuse. Its like if middle school aged kids can be bothered to sprint to a close out, or fight hard over a screen, why can’t a professional? Why does he just give up on a lot of plays? Same with the dribbling. When a dude is crowding Khris and he doesn’t use his offhand to guard against reaches and then his defender takes the ball from him it’s just a total “wtf are you doing dude?” Moment. Especially since those kinds of turnovers are literally the single worst play you can have happen in basketball that happens regularly.
He has been benched twice in the last two years by 2 different coaching staffs for not giving enough effort. This year it was in a contract year on a very good team. He is lazy.
only a fan, only an opinion
User avatar
smauss
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,716
And1: 419
Joined: Jul 23, 2005
Contact:
     

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#628 » by smauss » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:56 pm

When he gets the ball, and makes his move using a couple of dribbles is a thing of beauty. Its when he tries to do more than that is when he gets into trouble. Also that rebound the mike referred to earlier and I also in the a different thread, just absolutely makes me crazy and I can't get past that.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using RealGM mobile app
"Too many people ask for help, and sometimes you have to help yourself." - Jerry Sloan (CBQ is missed)

simul justus et peccator
User avatar
M-C-G
RealGM
Posts: 22,838
And1: 9,357
Joined: Jan 13, 2013
     

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#629 » by M-C-G » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:31 am

Two things with Middleton, he is in fact lazy with above average frequency. What makes that concerning is he did that with 180M on the line.

He has very nice averages every year which are generally saved by an insane stretch of shooting. If he doesn’t have that stretch he will instantly be considered the worst contract in basketball not named Wall.

I do agree with those that think his game will improve with age. But I won’t be shocked when we are talking about how we desperately need to shed the contract in a couple years from now. I mean, I hope we won’t because if he has a good season, we are probably making it to the finals.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
User avatar
MartyConlonOnTheRun
RealGM
Posts: 24,558
And1: 10,833
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Section 212 - Raising havoc in Squad 6

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#630 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:27 pm

Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)
Shaffty
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,067
And1: 4,111
Joined: Aug 03, 2014

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#631 » by Shaffty » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:56 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)

khris is better than everyone listed here
LuessiT
RealGM
Posts: 11,406
And1: 4,686
Joined: Jan 08, 2016
 

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#632 » by LuessiT » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:40 pm

Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)

khris is better than everyone listed here


Imo Harris, Klay (pre injury) and Horford last year were better.
User avatar
mcfromage
Veteran
Posts: 2,815
And1: 840
Joined: May 03, 2007
Location: California

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#633 » by mcfromage » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:40 pm

Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:
Trae Young (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)

khris is better than everyone listed here


I’d take Zion, Klay, D’Angelo, and Murray before Khris. Tatum, Trae and Porzingis are right there too.
User avatar
MartyConlonOnTheRun
RealGM
Posts: 24,558
And1: 10,833
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Section 212 - Raising havoc in Squad 6

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#634 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:34 pm

Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:

khris is better than everyone listed here

That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.
User avatar
Dick Tate
Starter
Posts: 2,459
And1: 1,832
Joined: Aug 17, 2006

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#635 » by Dick Tate » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:37 pm

The team wagered that his value will remain significantly higher than Brogdon’s. Probably a safe bet.
User avatar
emunney
RealGM
Posts: 60,042
And1: 36,433
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Location: where takes go to be pampered

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#636 » by emunney » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:38 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
Shaffty wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Where do you all have Middleton on the Big Board. GB has their top 25 and are voting on 24 and he isnt even on the poll of 10 players.

Probably somewhere in 35-40, with extremes of 30 and 50 if you really do or don't like his game.

After those 34, you have:

khris is better than everyone listed here

That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.


Major injuries can be an inflection point for guys with questionable motors. We're going to find out if there was a reason the Knicks were so apparently ready to go along with his trade request. I'm not saying I'd bet against Porzingis (I absolutely wouldn't), but I think there are valid reasons for caution.
Here are more legal notices regarding the Posts
User avatar
MartyConlonOnTheRun
RealGM
Posts: 24,558
And1: 10,833
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Section 212 - Raising havoc in Squad 6

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#637 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:57 pm

emunney wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
Shaffty wrote:khris is better than everyone listed here

That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.


Major injuries can be an inflection point for guys with questionable motors. We're going to find out if there was a reason the Knicks were so apparently ready to go along with his trade request. I'm not saying I'd bet against Porzingis (I absolutely wouldn't), but I think there are valid reasons for caution.

KP - Five Years, $158 Million
KM - Five Years, $178 Million

Fair but every player has concerns. Khash, IMO, has a questionable fitness work ethic and doesn't seem the same since his hamstring. He will be on the wrong side of 30 soon. Which contract do you take first in an expansion draft?
User avatar
ReasonablySober
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 98,025
And1: 34,750
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
Contact:

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#638 » by ReasonablySober » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:02 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:
emunney wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:That list was after the realgm GB top 34. That would put him in the 30-35 region. I'ld take a couple of guys over him next year, including KP. 23/7/2.4 blocks on 39% 3pt% shooting before going down. He should be 100% at this point.


Major injuries can be an inflection point for guys with questionable motors. We're going to find out if there was a reason the Knicks were so apparently ready to go along with his trade request. I'm not saying I'd bet against Porzingis (I absolutely wouldn't), but I think there are valid reasons for caution.

KP - Five Years, $158 Million
KM - Five Years, $178 Million

Fair but every player has concerns. Khash, IMO, has a questionable fitness work ethic and doesn't seem the same since his hamstring. He will be on the wrong side of 30 soon. Which contract do you take first in an expansion draft?


I get the age thing, but it's weird IMO to make an argument against KM, for KP, and use fitness and injury history as two of the big factors.
User avatar
Ron Swanson
RealGM
Posts: 22,345
And1: 23,367
Joined: May 15, 2013

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#639 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:04 pm

And the GB board voted Russell Westbrook the 12th best player in the league.....so yeah. I'd like to say that I don't care, but I actually kinda hate that Khris is getting so underrated cuz I did at one point believe he was firmly overrated on this board (re: Middleton's defense under Kidd), but now people are going so overboard with the criticisms I find myself having to argue with stupid people who legitimately believe guys like Devin Booker, Jayson Tatum, D'Angelo Russell, CJ McCollum and Demar DeRozan are better players than him cuz, idk, box score stats or something.
Chuck Diesel
RealGM
Posts: 17,591
And1: 11,556
Joined: May 23, 2004

Re: Woj: Bucks to Re-Sign Khris Middleton to a 5 year, $178M Contract 

Post#640 » by Chuck Diesel » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:27 pm

Allan Houston

Return to Milwaukee Bucks