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Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year.

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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#21 » by SFrush » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:32 am

Scoots1994 wrote:
Warriorfan wrote:I think it's a reach to say a bunch of rookies will be better than seasoned vets especially in the playoffs


On defense? Yes. On offense? No. The bench's offensive production was terrible last year, and this year they didn't just add rookies.


Agreed.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#22 » by ILOVEIT » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:32 pm

Last year Kerr said it would be a year for the young new guys....

Jacob Evans didn't get a sniff....Damion Jones went down with injury. No one else could really shoot.

Poole, Smiles, Pascal should get some run I would think....meaningful minutes.

If we don't see Jacob Evans get minutes...I think he's clearly not in the long term plans.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#23 » by Scoots1994 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:59 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:Last year Kerr said it would be a year for the young new guys....

Jacob Evans didn't get a sniff....Damion Jones went down with injury. No one else could really shoot.

Poole, Smiles, Pascal should get some run I would think....meaningful minutes.

If we don't see Jacob Evans get minutes...I think he's clearly not in the long term plans.


I don't think Kerr said that last year ... it was said, but I don't think Kerr was ever going to push the young guys out there last year over KD, Iguodala, Livingston, and Cousins ... that's not an option this year.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#24 » by likashing » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:40 pm

IMHO, Kerr has yet to prove he has a system that works when Steph is not on the court. During the last 5 seasons, Curry off court has always had a negative rating (except 1 year with +0.1). With All Stars like Klay, Draymond, Iguodala, and 3 seasons of KD, that is inexplicable against opponents' non-starters.

As of right now, I think it is more of a Kerr issue than a bench issue. I will watch this closely this season.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#25 » by Samurai » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:49 pm

Of our 3 rookies (Poole, Paschall, Smiley), this article believes that Paschall has the best chance to contribute immediately:
https://bluemanhoop.com/2019/08/21/eric-paschall-best-chance-contribute-immediately-golden-state-warriors-rookie/

Since I would expect Smiley to spend a significant amount of time in Santa Cruz for development due to age, I think we need both Paschall and Poole to be significant contributors for our bench to be better than last year. And I think Paschall's biggest contribution needs to be on defense given Iggy's departure.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#26 » by Scoots1994 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:08 am

likashing wrote:IMHO, Kerr has yet to prove he has a system that works when Steph is not on the court. During the last 5 seasons, Curry off court has always had a negative rating (except 1 year with +0.1). With All Stars like Klay, Draymond, Iguodala, and 3 seasons of KD, that is inexplicable against opponents' non-starters.

As of right now, I think it is more of a Kerr issue than a bench issue. I will watch this closely this season.


I think it was proven in his first year, but he needs to have offensive players who can move with and without the ball and shoot with confidence on the floor, and after that first year they've been harder and harder to find on the Warriors roster.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#27 » by likashing » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:06 am

Scoots1994 wrote:
likashing wrote:IMHO, Kerr has yet to prove he has a system that works when Steph is not on the court. During the last 5 seasons, Curry off court has always had a negative rating (except 1 year with +0.1). With All Stars like Klay, Draymond, Iguodala, and 3 seasons of KD, that is inexplicable against opponents' non-starters.

As of right now, I think it is more of a Kerr issue than a bench issue. I will watch this closely this season.


I think it was proven in his first year, but he needs to have offensive players who can move with and without the ball and shoot with confidence on the floor, and after that first year they've been harder and harder to find on the Warriors roster.


Not really.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415GSW.HTM

-3.2 with Curry off during 14-15.

Kerr’s “system” never worked without Steph despite having multiple All Stars at his disposal.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#28 » by floppymoose » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:44 am

Image

That's a look at this year's team vs last year's, all based on 2018 regular season RAPM for each player. Klay is highlighted as a reminder that he's out much of the year.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#29 » by Scoots1994 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:45 pm

likashing wrote:Not really.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415GSW.HTM

-3.2 with Curry off during 14-15.

Kerr’s “system” never worked without Steph despite having multiple All Stars at his disposal.


Is your point that Curry is good? It makes sense that Curry off the floor will make the team worse.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#30 » by likashing » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:58 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
likashing wrote:Not really.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415GSW.HTM

-3.2 with Curry off during 14-15.

Kerr’s “system” never worked without Steph despite having multiple All Stars at his disposal.


Is your point that Curry is good? It makes sense that Curry off the floor will make the team worse.


This stat has nothing to do with Curry being good or not.

This shows when against opponents’ non-starters, with combinations of Klay, Draymond, Iguodala, etc + various bench players over 5 seasons, we have failed to beat opponents’ bench all 5 seasons.

Including 14-15 bench which you incorrectly think was great.

When Curry wasn’t on, the 14-15 bench (with combinations of Klay Draymond Iguodala Livingston) loses by 3.2 points per 100 possessions, against opponents’ bench too.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#31 » by Mylie10 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:13 pm

Samurai wrote:Of our 3 rookies (Poole, Paschall, Smiley), this article believes that Paschall has the best chance to contribute immediately:
https://bluemanhoop.com/2019/08/21/eric-paschall-best-chance-contribute-immediately-golden-state-warriors-rookie/

Since I would expect Smiley to spend a significant amount of time in Santa Cruz for development due to age, I think we need both Paschall and Poole to be significant contributors for our bench to be better than last year. And I think Paschall's biggest contribution needs to be on defense given Iggy's departure.


Sounds like one of my post draft takes.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#32 » by Samurai » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:55 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
Samurai wrote:Of our 3 rookies (Poole, Paschall, Smiley), this article believes that Paschall has the best chance to contribute immediately:
https://bluemanhoop.com/2019/08/21/eric-paschall-best-chance-contribute-immediately-golden-state-warriors-rookie/

Since I would expect Smiley to spend a significant amount of time in Santa Cruz for development due to age, I think we need both Paschall and Poole to be significant contributors for our bench to be better than last year. And I think Paschall's biggest contribution needs to be on defense given Iggy's departure.


Sounds like one of my post draft takes.

Great minds think alike!

I also think GR3 can be a significant difference maker. He will get plenty of opportunities to be a rotation player while Klay is out. If the Indy version shows up, particularly his 39% shooting from deep, he can really help shore up our lack of depth at the SF spot with his athleticism and 6-10 wingspan on defense. If the Detroit version shows up, well maybe he can bring Curry his bags of popcorn.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#33 » by Scoots1994 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:44 am

likashing wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
likashing wrote:Not really.

http://www.82games.com/1415/1415GSW.HTM

-3.2 with Curry off during 14-15.

Kerr’s “system” never worked without Steph despite having multiple All Stars at his disposal.


Is your point that Curry is good? It makes sense that Curry off the floor will make the team worse.


This stat has nothing to do with Curry being good or not.

This shows when against opponents’ non-starters, with combinations of Klay, Draymond, Iguodala, etc + various bench players over 5 seasons, we have failed to beat opponents’ bench all 5 seasons.

Including 14-15 bench which you incorrectly think was great.

When Curry wasn’t on, the 14-15 bench (with combinations of Klay Draymond Iguodala Livingston) loses by 3.2 points per 100 possessions, against opponents’ bench too.


When did I say the 14-15 bench was great?
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#34 » by likashing » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:17 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
When did I say the 14-15 bench was great?


I think it was proven in his first year, but he needs to have offensive players who can move with and without the ball and shoot with confidence on the floor, and after that first year they've been harder and harder to find on the Warriors roster.


You said Kerr's system was proven in his first year which was 14-15.

I pointed out that the bench's performance still was not good during 14-15 and they got beat up by opponent's bench by ~3.5 points per 100 possessions, despite having Klay Iguodala Draymond etc
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#35 » by DAWill1128 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:24 pm

I think the bench will be better this year, well some of it depends on if WCS or Looney starts. WCS can do a lot of what Javale could. Burks is kind of a similar player to Barbosa, I have been saying for years we needed a slasher off the bench. I think Spellman can do a lot of what Speights could as a stretch big with some size to play center. GR3 if he does not start will get the playing time to get back into a rhythm. I think Lee will play over Poole and be a knockdown shooter. Actually hope Harrison makes the team, as a 6-6 point guard we might be able to mold him into a Livingston type of player.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#36 » by xdrta+ » Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:34 pm

DAWill1128 wrote:I think the bench will be better this year, well some of it depends on if WCS or Looney starts. WCS can do a lot of what Javale could. Burks is kind of a similar player to Barbosa, I have been saying for years we needed a slasher off the bench. I think Spellman can do a lot of what Speights could as a stretch big with some size to play center. GR3 if he does not start will get the playing time to get back into a rhythm. I think Lee will play over Poole and be a knockdown shooter. Actually hope Harrison makes the team, as a 6-6 point guard we might be able to mold him into a Livingston type of player.


Harrison can't make the regular season roster unless they cut McKinnie. A downside of the hard cap.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#37 » by Samurai » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:15 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
DAWill1128 wrote:I think the bench will be better this year, well some of it depends on if WCS or Looney starts. WCS can do a lot of what Javale could. Burks is kind of a similar player to Barbosa, I have been saying for years we needed a slasher off the bench. I think Spellman can do a lot of what Speights could as a stretch big with some size to play center. GR3 if he does not start will get the playing time to get back into a rhythm. I think Lee will play over Poole and be a knockdown shooter. Actually hope Harrison makes the team, as a 6-6 point guard we might be able to mold him into a Livingston type of player.


Harrison can't make the regular season roster unless they cut McKinnie. A downside of the hard cap.

And given how shallow the depth at SF is until Klay returns, I don't think it makes any sense at all to drop McKinnie to add Harrison. And I'm not sure there is a narrative that we need another PG. Steph can play the point; when he sits, DLo can play the point. If they are both out, such as during blowouts, then we have Evans. And Bowman can play there as well. 4 players, including 2 All Stars that typically play well over 30 minutes/game, at PG should be more than enough.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#38 » by killmongrel » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:04 pm

It's still too early to say, but I'm liking what I'm seeing from the bench so far. Even though I'm sure that this bench is going to be better, they haven't proven it yet. I love Andre and Shaun, but it was clear the bench needed a revamp a long time ago. Now we have young players with something to prove and it's going to show.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#39 » by xdrta+ » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:02 pm

Anyone seen any indication whether the team will pick up Evans' and/or Spellman's rookie options for next year? They have until Oct 31 to decide.
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Re: Hot take: Our bench will be better this year than last year. 

Post#40 » by thinkingwarriors » Sat Oct 12, 2019 9:02 pm

killmongrel wrote:It's still too early to say, but I'm liking what I'm seeing from the bench so far. Even though I'm sure that this bench is going to be better, they haven't proven it yet. I love Andre and Shaun, but it was clear the bench needed a revamp a long time ago. Now we have young players with something to prove and it's going to show.


The game last night is another step toward proving that Kerr's system featuring player movement and interior passing on the one hand and his overall defensive scheme on the other makes him one of the best coaches around. In a few weeks you can see his fingerprints all over the play of 1st and 2nd year players Evans, Poole, Paschall, Spellman and McKinnie.
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