Mo Bamba & Expectations for Season 2

[ezzzp]

Vučević was Orlando's best offensive player AND Orlando's best defensive player, statistically.

For these facts to be true, he was efficient and stable game-in-and-out.

I accept that for some fans here Vučević fails the eye test. But he does not fail the statistical tests. And last year, Vučević's stats led to wins. Winning is the only statistics that matters, after all.

Absolutely, W's are the only stat that matters.

The "eye test" for many fans is heavily influenced by the type of plays that make highlight reels.

Its hard not to look at a nasty block or insane dunk and not get hyped about it...but that type of play isn't an indicator of how much, or how little, impact that player was actually having on the floor at that time.

A player that is rarely out of position on defense just doesn't carry a fraction of the hype factor that a block does, yet it has way more impact towards winning.

Of course a block or a dunk can change the momentum of a game in some instances, but most of the time its more about style points than actual in-game impact. For me personally, I have to rely on statistics to balance off my eye test and emotional biases to be able to get a decent reading of performance and impact.

[basketballRob]

I think Mo will make progress like JI did last season. I could see him averaging 10 pts 7 rebs and 2 blks.

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[Blue_and_Whte]

Vučević was Orlando's best offensive player AND Orlando's best defensive player, statistically.

For these facts to be true, he was efficient and stable game-in-and-out.

I accept that for some fans here Vučević fails the eye test. But he does not fail the statistical tests. And last year, Vučević's stats led to wins. Winning is the only statistics that matters, after all.

Absolutely, W's are the only stat that matters.

The "eye test" for many fans is heavily influenced by the type of plays that make highlight reels.

Its hard not to look at a nasty block or insane dunk and not get hyped about it...but that type of play isn't an indicator of how much, or how little, impact that player was actually having on the floor at that time.

A player that is rarely out of position on defense just doesn't carry a fraction of the hype factor that a block does, yet it has way more impact towards winning.

Of course a block or a dunk can change the momentum of a game in some instances, but most of the time its more about style points than actual in-game impact. For me personally, I have to rely on statistics to balance off my eye test and emotional biases to be able to get a decent reading of performance and impact.

this is 100% accurate.

[Skybox]

I think Mo will make progress like JI did last season. I could see him averaging 10 pts 7 rebs and 2 blks.

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I think this is very reasonable, even conservative...I expect Bamba to basically push Birch out of the rotation. Alternatively, Bamba increases his value enough to be part of a trade package for Beal (or similar). No knock on Birch, he's a solid backup.

[basketballRob]

I think Mo will make progress like JI did last season. I could see him averaging 10 pts 7 rebs and 2 blks.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I think this is very reasonable, even conservative...I expect Bamba to basically push Birch out of the rotation. Alternatively, Bamba increases his value enough to be part of a trade package for Beal (or similar). No knock on Birch, he's a solid backup.

I doubt they trade Bamba while he's on a rookie scale contract.

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[ezzzp]

I think Mo will make progress like JI did last season. I could see him averaging 10 pts 7 rebs and 2 blks.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I think this is very reasonable, even conservative...I expect Bamba to basically push Birch out of the rotation. Alternatively, Bamba increases his value enough to be part of a trade package for Beal (or similar). No knock on Birch, he's a solid backup.

I doubt they trade Bamba while he's on a rookie scale contract.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

If its for Beal this summer I'd probably do it because its two full season's of a young star for three seasons of Bamba at rookie scale (1-2 of those years most likely still be bench caliber). After that you have tough situation either way, retaining Beal vs betting big money on Bamba at 24 so likely still a lot of questions about his value.

At the trade deadline I would be much less inclined to.

[Skybox]

I think this is very reasonable, even conservative...I expect Bamba to basically push Birch out of the rotation. Alternatively, Bamba increases his value enough to be part of a trade package for Beal (or similar). No knock on Birch, he's a solid backup.

I doubt they trade Bamba while he's on a rookie scale contract.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

If its for Beal this summer I'd probably do it because its two full season's of a young star for three seasons of Bamba at rookie scale (1-2 of those years most likely still be bench caliber). After that you have tough situation either way, retaining Beal vs betting big money on Bamba at 24 so likely still a lot of questions about his value.

At the trade deadline I would be much less inclined to.

It'd also have to be quite a bit more than just Bamba, IMO. Probably AG unless Bamba comes out like a monster early. Also assuming Beal is even available or demands trade. Beal just seemed like the most likely available with the type of attributes ORL should be shopping for.

[pepe1991]

Wizards have Thomas Bryant, who is 22 and pretty damn good. Why would they take Bamba?

[PrimeThyme]

I'm going to give him 25 games or so before I make any somewhat concrete statements && as long as he is still on this roster I'm going to support him as I do all the young guys and continue to hope that I'm wrong, but I'm very close to being out on Mo Bamba. I've always been in love with his skill set and potential as a stretch 5, but I think I overlooked a lot of the intangibles when it came to him as a prospect. I just don't see it.

The lack of motor is the biggest part of it. 90% of the time it feels like Mo is just out there floating. It doesn't seem like he is ever actively engaged on either end of the court. He's perfectly content with getting beat defensively (which happens too often) on one end and then casually jogging back on offense as if nothing happened. It feels like he is giving 60% effort at all times.

I just don't think you can ever teach motor. A lot of teams in this league have fought that internal battle with the player that possessed all the ability in the world but never had the mentality to put it all together and reach their potential.

I'm not going to go as far as saying this could turn into a Thon Maker situation for us, but I'm also not going to say that it doesn't have the potential to go very badly. His net rating and advanced stats have been good to start the year and I thought he looked better defensively against Atlanta, but I just have to be honest and say that I havent seen enough that makes me think he is going to be a much-improved player this year.

When I look at the centers on this roster and consider how competitive this team wants to be, I still struggle to see his fit on this team. He's played about 13.5 mpg so far (down from 16 last year) and I think his ceiling is about 16 mpg, but I also see a scenario where this team is .500 or below in January and replace him with Birch in this rotation. It just seems if you can sell a team on Bambas potential and can get real value back for him I think you do it while you still can.

However, I'm hoping he changes my mind this season and really starts to turn the corner.

[basketballRob]

I'm going to give him 25 games or so before I make any somewhat concrete statements && as long as he is still on this roster I'm going to support him as I do all the young guys and continue to hope that I'm wrong, but I'm very close to being out on Mo Bamba. I've always been in love with his skill set and potential as a stretch 5, but I think I overlooked a lot of the intangibles when it came to him as a prospect. I just don't see it.

The lack of motor is the biggest part of it. 90% of the time it feels like Mo is just out there floating. It doesn't seem like he is ever actively engaged on either end of the court. He's perfectly content with getting beat defensively (which happens too often) on one end and then casually jogging back on offense as if nothing happened. It feels like he is giving 60% effort at all times.

I just don't think you can ever teach motor. A lot of teams in this league have fought that internal battle with the player that possessed all the ability in the world but never had the mentality to put it all together and reach their potential.

I'm not going to go as far as saying this could turn into a Thon Maker situation for us, but I'm also not going to say that it doesn't have the potential to go very badly. His net rating and advanced stats have been good to start the year and I thought he looked better defensively against Atlanta, but I just have to be honest and say that I havent seen enough that makes me think he is going to be a much-improved player this year.

When I look at the centers on this roster and consider how competitive this team wants to be, I still struggle to see his fit on this team. He's played about 13.5 mpg so far (down from 16 last year) and I think his ceiling is about 16 mpg, but I also see a scenario where this team is .500 or below in January and replace him with Birch in this rotation. It just seems if you can sell a team on Bambas potential and can get real value back for him I think you do it while you still can.

However, I'm hoping he changes my mind this season and really starts to turn the corner.

Cool. By 25 games his net rating will probably come down from the +13 that it is now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pinoynurse]

I'm going to give him 25 games or so before I make any somewhat concrete statements && as long as he is still on this roster I'm going to support him as I do all the young guys and continue to hope that I'm wrong, but I'm very close to being out on Mo Bamba. I've always been in love with his skill set and potential as a stretch 5, but I think I overlooked a lot of the intangibles when it came to him as a prospect. I just don't see it.

The lack of motor is the biggest part of it. 90% of the time it feels like Mo is just out there floating. It doesn't seem like he is ever actively engaged on either end of the court. He's perfectly content with getting beat defensively (which happens too often) on one end and then casually jogging back on offense as if nothing happened. It feels like he is giving 60% effort at all times.

I just don't think you can ever teach motor. A lot of teams in this league have fought that internal battle with the player that possessed all the ability in the world but never had the mentality to put it all together and reach their potential.

I'm not going to go as far as saying this could turn into a Thon Maker situation for us, but I'm also not going to say that it doesn't have the potential to go very badly. His net rating and advanced stats have been good to start the year and I thought he looked better defensively against Atlanta, but I just have to be honest and say that I havent seen enough that makes me think he is going to be a much-improved player this year.

When I look at the centers on this roster and consider how competitive this team wants to be, I still struggle to see his fit on this team. He's played about 13.5 mpg so far (down from 16 last year) and I think his ceiling is about 16 mpg, but I also see a scenario where this team is .500 or below in January and replace him with Birch in this rotation. It just seems if you can sell a team on Bambas potential and can get real value back for him I think you do it while you still can.

However, I'm hoping he changes my mind this season and really starts to turn the corner.

agree on most of this. doesnt really play with any sense of urgency. still too early tho, will wait and see

[pepe1991]

I'm going to give him 25 games or so before I make any somewhat concrete statements && as long as he is still on this roster I'm going to support him as I do all the young guys and continue to hope that I'm wrong, but I'm very close to being out on Mo Bamba. I've always been in love with his skill set and potential as a stretch 5, but I think I overlooked a lot of the intangibles when it came to him as a prospect. I just don't see it.

The lack of motor is the biggest part of it. 90% of the time it feels like Mo is just out there floating. It doesn't seem like he is ever actively engaged on either end of the court. He's perfectly content with getting beat defensively (which happens too often) on one end and then casually jogging back on offense as if nothing happened. It feels like he is giving 60% effort at all times.

I just don't think you can ever teach motor. A lot of teams in this league have fought that internal battle with the player that possessed all the ability in the world but never had the mentality to put it all together and reach their potential.

I'm not going to go as far as saying this could turn into a Thon Maker situation for us, but I'm also not going to say that it doesn't have the potential to go very badly. His net rating and advanced stats have been good to start the year and I thought he looked better defensively against Atlanta, but I just have to be honest and say that I havent seen enough that makes me think he is going to be a much-improved player this year.

When I look at the centers on this roster and consider how competitive this team wants to be, I still struggle to see his fit on this team. He's played about 13.5 mpg so far (down from 16 last year) and I think his ceiling is about 16 mpg, but I also see a scenario where this team is .500 or below in January and replace him with Birch in this rotation. It just seems if you can sell a team on Bambas potential and can get real value back for him I think you do it while you still can.

However, I'm hoping he changes my mind this season and really starts to turn the corner.

Cool. By 25 games his net rating will probably come down from the +13 that it is now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Net rating on 2 games sample size with 27 min played is irrelevant.
Curry has net rating of -38 so far.

Over two games Bamba scored 9 points total, is yet to shoot FT and once again out of 8 shots he took, 4 were three point shots.
Floating around 3 point line for center who was lottery pick is unacceptable.

[drsd]

I'm going to give him 25 games or so before I make any somewhat concrete statements ... .

For me it is disconcerting that Bamba followed up a strong game off of the bench with a lackadaisical, almost lazy effort.

..

[basketballRob]

I'm going to give him 25 games or so before I make any somewhat concrete statements && as long as he is still on this roster I'm going to support him as I do all the young guys and continue to hope that I'm wrong, but I'm very close to being out on Mo Bamba. I've always been in love with his skill set and potential as a stretch 5, but I think I overlooked a lot of the intangibles when it came to him as a prospect. I just don't see it.

The lack of motor is the biggest part of it. 90% of the time it feels like Mo is just out there floating. It doesn't seem like he is ever actively engaged on either end of the court. He's perfectly content with getting beat defensively (which happens too often) on one end and then casually jogging back on offense as if nothing happened. It feels like he is giving 60% effort at all times.

I just don't think you can ever teach motor. A lot of teams in this league have fought that internal battle with the player that possessed all the ability in the world but never had the mentality to put it all together and reach their potential.

I'm not going to go as far as saying this could turn into a Thon Maker situation for us, but I'm also not going to say that it doesn't have the potential to go very badly. His net rating and advanced stats have been good to start the year and I thought he looked better defensively against Atlanta, but I just have to be honest and say that I havent seen enough that makes me think he is going to be a much-improved player this year.

When I look at the centers on this roster and consider how competitive this team wants to be, I still struggle to see his fit on this team. He's played about 13.5 mpg so far (down from 16 last year) and I think his ceiling is about 16 mpg, but I also see a scenario where this team is .500 or below in January and replace him with Birch in this rotation. It just seems if you can sell a team on Bambas potential and can get real value back for him I think you do it while you still can.

However, I'm hoping he changes my mind this season and really starts to turn the corner.

Cool. By 25 games his net rating will probably come down from the +13 that it is now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Net rating on 2 games sample size with 27 min played is irrelevant.
Curry has net rating of -38 so far.

Over two games Bamba scored 9 points total, is yet to shoot FT and once again out of 8 shots he took, 4 were three point shots.
Floating around 3 point line for center who was lottery pick is unacceptable.

Vuc is shooting 111 from 3.

If Curry's net rating is -38 after a couple games I think he must of played bad. Fournier's is -16 and the Fournier defenders are saying he played good. Lol.

I really take what fans post with a grain of salt, because they use selective stats to say whether a player is good or bad based on if they like them.

Mo hasn't got shots, because the ball hasn't been moving.

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[pepe1991]

Cool. By 25 games his net rating will probably come down from the +13 that it is now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Net rating on 2 games sample size with 27 min played is irrelevant.
Curry has net rating of -38 so far.

Over two games Bamba scored 9 points total, is yet to shoot FT and once again out of 8 shots he took, 4 were three point shots.
Floating around 3 point line for center who was lottery pick is unacceptable.

Vuc is shooting 111 from 3.

If Curry's net rating is -38 after a couple games I think he must of played bad. Fournier's is -16 and the Fournier defenders are saying he played good. Lol.

I really take what fans post with a grain of salt, because they use selective stats to say whether a player is good or bad based on if they like them.

Mo hasn't got shots, because the ball hasn't been moving.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Net rating is nothing but co-relation of off and def rating while you are in game.

It does not show your actual contribution . Ross has best net rating on a team and he has been walking disaster.

Net rating is good indicator of performance after 15-20 games, but when you log >30 min it's usless data.

Because sample size is so limited, ESPN is yet to publish real plus minus data for new season.

I'm hesitant to make any claims until mid December and enough games , we can talk what player did or didn't do in single game, but overall it's way too early to talk about anything, especially advanced stats. You can't base advance stats on 2 games, it's worthless, currapted data.

[j-ragg]

I don’t understand how he could average a double double with 4 bpg in college with all the sleep walking he does on the court. Thank god we didn’t take someone with a low ceiling though lol.

[Xatticus]

Net rating on 2 games sample size with 27 min played is irrelevant.
Curry has net rating of -38 so far.

Over two games Bamba scored 9 points total, is yet to shoot FT and once again out of 8 shots he took, 4 were three point shots.
Floating around 3 point line for center who was lottery pick is unacceptable.

Vuc is shooting 111 from 3.

If Curry's net rating is -38 after a couple games I think he must of played bad. Fournier's is -16 and the Fournier defenders are saying he played good. Lol.

I really take what fans post with a grain of salt, because they use selective stats to say whether a player is good or bad based on if they like them.

Mo hasn't got shots, because the ball hasn't been moving.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Net rating is nothing but co-relation of off and def rating while you are in game.

It does not show your actual contribution . Ross has best net rating on a team and he has been walking disaster.

Net rating is good indicator of performance after 15-20 games, but when you log >30 min it's usless data.

Because sample size is so limited, ESPN is yet to publish real plus minus data for new season.

I'm hesitant to make any claims until mid December and enough games , we can talk what player did or didn't do in single game, but overall it's way too early to talk about anything, especially advanced stats. You can't base advance stats on 2 games, it's worthless, currapted data.

Just in general, I don't put much emphasis on shooting when I'm evaluating a player's performance. There is a lot of variance from one night to the next. I worry about whether or not guys are taking the right shots and making the right passes.

Vucevic had a poor shooting night, but I thought he actually played well against Atlanta. His 3-point attempts were good shots that didn't go down. He got stuffed at the rim at the end a couple times. Perhaps the ball should've come out, but those were great plays by Collins and the Atlanta defense. The one-five pick-and-roll got scorched all night long, but I thought the effort was good.

I just worry far more about whether guys are making the right decisions as opposed to whether or not the shots are going down for us or the opposition on a given night. If our players are making the right plays, the numbers will take care of themselves in the long run. You can play a poker hand perfectly and lose money, but if you keep playing your hands well, you will win in the long run.

I'm going to wait to make any declarations on Bamba's progress. I thought he looked solid in the first game of the year though.
That's a step in the right direction.

[zaymon]

I will be counter weight. Its my least favourite prospect in the top 10. He will be very bad offensively with chance to be just bad. Being smart doesnt equal being good basketball player. Making quick reads and good decisions is something entirely different than smooth talking. Defensively nba changed, now you have to be great team defender becouse there is so much space to cover, and he is nowhere near elite prospects like JJJ, even Carter

Nothing changed from my before the draft assessment of Bamba. Its kind of sad, but it was all on tape. I really hope he can succed but i worry it will take many years for him.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

As someone who was high on Bamba and was excited after his first game last season to the point where I changed my RealGM name- I am thoroughly disappointed in Bamba.
It seems he only really cares about his 3 point shot and not in other aspects of the game. That’s great we have a 7 footer who can shoot 3’s but if he can’t contribute in other ways then I don’t see a spot on the roster for him.
I would pick Birch over Bamba and that’s sad because one was undrafted and the other was the #6 pick.

[3ddman23]

Bamba needs to be traded asap while he still has value. He is a complete fraud. If he is not hitting his outside junoer he provides nothing else on the floor. He has a low motor and has extremely low defense iq and positioning skills and these are things that's cant really be taught. If you can package him for a decent wing player you do it in a heartbeat before he continues to get exposed and loss value by the day.