The Temple of Jemerrio Jones

[I_Like_Dirt]

I'm not so sure it's actually roster incompatibility, though. It doesn't actually cost much to keep him around and develop him. Talent is talent and the question is whether or not Bonga has enough and will develop enough of it to succeed in the NBA. The Wizards Brought in Thomas Bryant while having Mahinmi and Howard under contract for another couple seasons knowing Bryant had one year left on his contract and would be paid and potentially redundant if he developed. Things aren't guaranteed in the NBA. Draymond Green needs the ball to be effective and the Warriors still went out and paid Curry and Durant who both needed the ball a lot to be effective. It's actually better to have that kind of versatility in players. Having one-dimensional players makes you much easier to defend once the going gets tough. I don't think you can have too much ball-handling, passing and defense on the roster. I do think you need guys who aren't 0s with or without the ball and Bonga has the potential to be able to play both ways which is what you want.

And frankly, I think Bonga does play a position/role of need. Between Rui, Brown and Beal, I'm not sure I see a more serious need at the wing/forward spots. Really, the Wizards need everything at this point, and especially talented players. Say all you want about the Lakers being in a desperate spot for Kawhi Leonard but they just effectively gave Bonga away for free which suggests there aren't going to be a lot of teams willing to hand out particularly good prospects for him. There will probably be a fair few teams ready to pounce if the Wizards ever let him go for free like the Lakers did, though. My bigger real concern is that I very much doubt the Wizards' organizational player development relative other NBA teams but that's going to be true of any prospect and guys still develop on the Wizards, too. I do think there is a very real chance that if Bonga develops, he does it for another team after the Wizards cut him loose but the Wizards have him now and aren't likely to get him back if they let him go at this point.

And now we're page 2. You're welcome!

[JWizmentality]

Hot take. Mo Vagner will be the best prospect we got from the Lakers. Excluding Bryant of course.

This isn't a hot take, just a terrible one. He's almost 3 years older than Bonga and already worse. Bonga may or may not be the best prospect - Jones is definitely interesting, too, though.

My concern with Jones is that he can't shoot at all - even FTs. He's really bad at shooting and I'm not at all convinced he's ever going to be able to shoot. He does basically everything else you could want besides putting the ball in the basket, though. A part of me wonders if he couldn't carve out a career as one of those underrated utility guys not totally unlike Marcus Smart. Even Marcus Smart hits more than 30% of his 3s and a reasonable amount of his FTs, though. I fully expect Jones to bust his ass to try to learn to shoot better. If he comes through even a little bit, he'd be really good.

And I disagree with Nate about Bonga. I don't think it's necessarily a problem to have multiple ball-handlers on the floor and Bonga should be able to play both with and without the ball. Heck, so should Brown, Beal and others. It's really just Wall who's extreme in both his ability to play on the ball and lack of skillset to play off of it and I don't see how he's an issue at this point.

I shall use the green font going forward.

[payitforward]

I'm not so sure it's actually roster incompatibility, though. It doesn't actually cost much to keep him around and develop him. Talent is talent and the question is whether or not Bonga has enough and will develop enough of it to succeed in the NBA. The Wizards Brought in Thomas Bryant while having Mahinmi and Howard under contract for another couple seasons knowing Bryant had one year left on his contract and would be paid and potentially redundant if he developed. Things aren't guaranteed in the NBA. Draymond Green needs the ball to be effective and the Warriors still went out and paid Curry and Durant who both needed the ball a lot to be effective. It's actually better to have that kind of versatility in players. Having one-dimensional players makes you much easier to defend once the going gets tough. I don't think you can have too much ball-handling, passing and defense on the roster. I do think you need guys who aren't 0s with or without the ball and Bonga has the potential to be able to play both ways which is what you want.

And frankly, I think Bonga does play a position/role of need. Between Rui, Brown and Beal, I'm not sure I see a more serious need at the wing/forward spots. Really, the Wizards need everything at this point, and especially talented players. Say all you want about the Lakers being in a desperate spot for Kawhi Leonard but they just effectively gave Bonga away for free which suggests there aren't going to be a lot of teams willing to hand out particularly good prospects for him. There will probably be a fair few teams ready to pounce if the Wizards ever let him go for free like the Lakers did, though. My bigger real concern is that I very much doubt the Wizards' organizational player development relative other NBA teams but that's going to be true of any prospect and guys still develop on the Wizards, too. I do think there is a very real chance that if Bonga develops, he does it for another team after the Wizards cut him loose but the Wizards have him now and aren't likely to get him back if they let him go at this point.

And now we're page 2. You're welcome!

I agree with much of what you say, & I would express my thanks to you for getting this thread to p.2, except... it was the Bonga thread that was predicted not to make it to page 2.

Instead, here we are discussing Bonga in Jones's thread -- preventing the Bonga thread from getting off its first page!!

I protest. The Bonga thread is one of the most promising young threads on this board. It has the potential to become an all star thread -- maybe even to feature one or more HOF posts! Only people who really don't understand basketball would downgrade the Isaac Bonga thread.

I can't wait to gloat at my ability to pick threads.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Yeah, I noticed this wasn't the Bonga thread making page 2... just got hung up disagreeing with nate on Bonga here.

Jones is fine in his own right and I'll get Bonga's thread to page 2 shortly.

[I_Like_Dirt]

I shall use the green font going forward.

For what it's worth, green font wasn't necessary there. I just got confused on your use of "hot take." I usually read that either in the sense of something is obviously right and not at all a hot take, or that something is going to be extremely controversial and expecting blowback. Adding a third definition of sarcasm makes it extremely confusing to the point of being near impossible to distinguish which is which to me, at least.

[payitforward]

His offense is so bad that he's borderline unplayable. You can say it was a small sample size last year but his college numbers are also a disaster. His ft shooting went from 61% to 52% from his freshman to sophomore years. His 3-point shooting went from 22% to 9%. This isn't just bad, this is you won't be long for the NBA. He needs to at least become passable offensively. Otherwise I don't want him.

Looking at his G-league stats he was at 34.1% from 3 on .9 3's a game, but .5% from the ft line. The way forward for him is to be a 3 and D guy. If he can figure out his shooting, he could be a starter. But right now his shooting is so bad that there is no place for him on an NBA roster.

Seems like maybe you changed your mind a bit between the two posts above? In any case, I'd say your general point is obviously incorrect.

The better you are at any skill that helps the team win the better, no doubt, but you can be so extremely good at one or more of them that it makes up for being bad at another. (e.g. Dennis Rodman...)

Jemerrio Jones averaged almost 14 rebounds per 40 minutes last year, as a 2-3. To which he added more steals than turnovers -- while committing very few fouls & playing killer 1-on-1 defense. Plus, he essentially got back almost every shot he missed by way of an offensive rebound, so that his low percentage shooting didn't hurt his team.

Obviously, per se, it's still a disadvantage to have a non-shooter on the floor. But if that non-shooter is pretty much completely shutting down Lou Williams, for example, you have to take that into consideration.

Jemerrio Jones is a very unusual NBA player, no doubt about it. But, insofar as we can tell anything from a small sample size, he's also a very effective one. I'd certainly rather have him (& play him!) than a marginal journeyman in his late 20s like Jordan McRae (nothing against McRae, whom I've followed since he came out of college).

[payitforward]

I shall use the green font going forward.

For what it's worth, green font wasn't necessary there. I just got confused on your use of "hot take." I usually read that either in the sense of something is obviously right and not at all a hot take, or that something is going to be extremely controversial and expecting blowback. Adding a third definition of sarcasm makes it extremely confusing to the point of being near impossible to distinguish which is which to me, at least.

You two guys should stop arguing; it gets me nervous.

[nuposse04]

I'm not so sure it's actually roster incompatibility, though. It doesn't actually cost much to keep him around and develop him. Talent is talent and the question is whether or not Bonga has enough and will develop enough of it to succeed in the NBA. The Wizards Brought in Thomas Bryant while having Mahinmi and Howard under contract for another couple seasons knowing Bryant had one year left on his contract and would be paid and potentially redundant if he developed. Things aren't guaranteed in the NBA. Draymond Green needs the ball to be effective and the Warriors still went out and paid Curry and Durant who both needed the ball a lot to be effective. It's actually better to have that kind of versatility in players. Having one-dimensional players makes you much easier to defend once the going gets tough. I don't think you can have too much ball-handling, passing and defense on the roster. I do think you need guys who aren't 0s with or without the ball and Bonga has the potential to be able to play both ways which is what you want.

And frankly, I think Bonga does play a position/role of need. Between Rui, Brown and Beal, I'm not sure I see a more serious need at the wing/forward spots. Really, the Wizards need everything at this point, and especially talented players. Say all you want about the Lakers being in a desperate spot for Kawhi Leonard but they just effectively gave Bonga away for free which suggests there aren't going to be a lot of teams willing to hand out particularly good prospects for him. There will probably be a fair few teams ready to pounce if the Wizards ever let him go for free like the Lakers did, though. My bigger real concern is that I very much doubt the Wizards' organizational player development relative other NBA teams but that's going to be true of any prospect and guys still develop on the Wizards, too. I do think there is a very real chance that if Bonga develops, he does it for another team after the Wizards cut him loose but the Wizards have him now and aren't likely to get him back if they let him go at this point.

And now we're page 2. You're welcome!

I agree with much of what you say, & I would express my thanks to you for getting this thread to p.2, except... it was the Bonga thread that was predicted not to make it to page 2.

Instead, here we are discussing Bonga in Jones's thread -- preventing the Bonga thread from getting off its first page!!

I protest. The Bonga thread is one of the most promising young threads on this board. It has the potential to become an all star thread -- maybe even to feature one or more HOF posts! Only people who really don't understand basketball would downgrade the Isaac Bonga thread.

I can't wait to gloat at my ability to pick threads.

With how much you talk about Brandon Clarke(maybe rightfully so at times) in other threads you gotta take your lumps here

I kinda really wish they didn't sign Ish smith. Then they could keep both Robinson and Bonga as backup PGs. Hell troy brown Jr can handle a lot of those duties. Then Jones' spot could be a bit more safe. Unless CJ Miles is going to magically gonna go on IR

[payitforward]

I don't mind taking my lumps. People agreeing all the time doesn't make for a very lively Board!!

[Ruzious]

I shall use the green font going forward.

For what it's worth, green font wasn't necessary there. I just got confused on your use of "hot take." I usually read that either in the sense of something is obviously right and not at all a hot take, or that something is going to be extremely controversial and expecting blowback. Adding a third definition of sarcasm makes it extremely confusing to the point of being near impossible to distinguish which is which to me, at least.

You two guys should stop arguing; it gets me nervous.

I know, and if you spill it, that green font is hard to get out when you get some on your shirt. Good green font remover is hard to find.

[payitforward]

That's why people here usually take their shirts off before getting into a fight!

I take my hat off to them.

One good thing is that green font will cover in one coat.

If you shoes to use it, that is.

There's that topic covered from head to toe!

[nate33]

Training camp can't start soon enough.

[JWizmentality]

I want to talk about IT's cornrows.

[DCZards]

What I would really like to do is cut Wagner and then trade Bonga for a comparable prospect at the PF/C position. That would resolve a lot of roster issues and allow us to keep McRae and Jones. (I've got nothing against Bonga, but I just don't see room for him on this roster when we already have a bunch of ball handlers in Wall, Beal and Brown. It's just not a good fit for him here because he needs the ball to be effective.)

I sorta understand your argument for trading Bonga for someone who plays a position of need. And I agree that Bonga just adds another ballhandler to those we already have.

But with the way that the NBA is evolving I'd argue that a guy like Bonga, who can handle, pass, run the court like a deer and defend 3-4 positions, is far more valuable than a comparable prospect at PF/C. Bonga seems to fit extremely well into the "new" NBA. We're probably 2-3 years away from knowing that for sure. But from the 3 players we got in the trade with the Lakers, Bonga is the one that I believe has the most upside and the one that I think the Zards should prioritize.

[Illmatic12]

Read on Twitter

Big fan of this guy . And I love that he tweets clips of his daily workouts to @WashWizards account , man really wants to make the roster

Btw Nate, Wiz actually don’t need to cut anyone in order to keep Jones. They can still offer him a two way contract.

Wall/Smith/Thomas/Robinson
Beal/McRae/Schofield
Miles/Brown/Bonga
Bertans/Hachimura/Wagner
Bryant/Mahinmi

That’s the 15-man roster right there. Then the 2-way signings: Garrison Matthews, Jemerrio Jones


They signed Schofield to a 4yr deal already. Even though he was a draft pick , Justin Robinson technically hasn’t signed and may still have to prove himself in training camp, but from what Sheppard has said he’s basically expecting to give him a guaranteed deal.

[payitforward]

Read on Twitter

Big fan of this guy . And I love that he tweets clips of his daily workouts to @WashWizards account , man really wants to make the roster

Btw Nate, Wiz actually don’t need to cut anyone in order to keep Jones. They can still offer him a two way contract.

Wall/Smith/Thomas/Robinson
Beal/McRae/Schofield
Miles/Brown/Bonga
Bertans/Hachimura/Wagner
Bryant/Mahinmi

That’s the 15-man roster right there. Then the 2-way signings: Garrison Matthews, Jemerrio Jones

They signed Schofield to a 4yr deal already. Even though he was a draft pick , Justin Robinson technically hasn’t signed and may still have to prove himself in training camp, but from what Sheppard has said he’s basically expecting to give him a guaranteed deal.

?? Robinson was not a draft pick. He was picked up post-draft. Moreover, he *has* been signed, yes, & has a partially guaranteed deal this year. We can eat the guaranteed $$ of course & let him go.

To sign Jones as a 2-way player, yes, the team would have to cut him first -- he has a non-guaranteed deal this year. That would make him an unrestricted FA. We could sign him to a 2-way deal at that point. But so could someone else -- or another team could offer him a regular roster spot, which, obviously, would be preferable for him; he'd take it over a 2-way with us. The $$$ difference is enormous.

You've also forgotten Phil Booth, whom we signed to an Exhibit 10 contract.

[montestewart]

I shall use the green font going forward.

For what it's worth, green font wasn't necessary there. I just got confused on your use of "hot take." I usually read that either in the sense of something is obviously right and not at all a hot take, or that something is going to be extremely controversial and expecting blowback. Adding a third definition of sarcasm makes it extremely confusing to the point of being near impossible to distinguish which is which to me, at least.

It's like JWiz is using 3-D sarcasm and the rest of us are making farm animal puns. Right here in the temple.

[JWizmentality]

I shall use the green font going forward.

For what it's worth, green font wasn't necessary there. I just got confused on your use of "hot take." I usually read that either in the sense of something is obviously right and not at all a hot take, or that something is going to be extremely controversial and expecting blowback. Adding a third definition of sarcasm makes it extremely confusing to the point of being near impossible to distinguish which is which to me, at least.

It's like JWiz is using 3-D sarcasm and the rest of us are making farm animal puns. Right here in the temple.

This temple's filthy. And I think someone went pee pee in the prayer room.

[JWizmentality]

Read on Twitter

Big fan of this guy . And I love that he tweets clips of his daily workouts to @WashWizards account , man really wants to make the roster

Btw Nate, Wiz actually don’t need to cut anyone in order to keep Jones. They can still offer him a two way contract.

Wall/Smith/Thomas/Robinson
Beal/McRae/Schofield
Miles/Brown/Bonga
Bertans/Hachimura/Wagner
Bryant/Mahinmi

That’s the 15-man roster right there. Then the 2-way signings: Garrison Matthews, Jemerrio Jones


They signed Schofield to a 4yr deal already. Even though he was a draft pick , Justin Robinson technically hasn’t signed and may still have to prove himself in training camp, but from what Sheppard has said he’s basically expecting to give him a guaranteed deal.

I for one think he's lazy. Why is he just getting to D.C now? He was traded months ago. How is he going to grab rebounds if he's already this slow?

[Illmatic12]

Read on Twitter

Big fan of this guy . And I love that he tweets clips of his daily workouts to @WashWizards account , man really wants to make the roster

Btw Nate, Wiz actually don’t need to cut anyone in order to keep Jones. They can still offer him a two way contract.

Wall/Smith/Thomas/Robinson
Beal/McRae/Schofield
Miles/Brown/Bonga
Bertans/Hachimura/Wagner
Bryant/Mahinmi

That’s the 15-man roster right there. Then the 2-way signings: Garrison Matthews, Jemerrio Jones

They signed Schofield to a 4yr deal already. Even though he was a draft pick , Justin Robinson technically hasn’t signed and may still have to prove himself in training camp, but from what Sheppard has said he’s basically expecting to give him a guaranteed deal.

?? Robinson was not a draft pick. He was picked up post-draft. Moreover, he *has* been signed, yes, & has a partially guaranteed deal this year. We can eat the guaranteed $$ of course & let him go.

To sign Jones as a 2-way player, yes, the team would have to cut him first -- he has a non-guaranteed deal this year. That would make him an unrestricted FA. We could sign him to a 2-way deal at that point. But so could someone else -- or another team could offer him a regular roster spot, which, obviously, would be preferable for him; he'd take it over a 2-way with us. The $$$ difference is enormous.

You've also forgotten Phil Booth, whom we signed to an Exhibit 10 contract.

Hmm... that seems right, I got Robinson confused for some reason.

I highly doubt Jones would be offered a roster spot by any team if waived. It would be a handshake agreement between him and the team to stick around in the GoGo program, with the real possibility of getting stretches of PT with the big club.

Exhibit 10 is a training camp deal. Phil Booth is just a random guy signed to practice with the team for a few weeks