So who said "No!" Jimmy, Elton or Brett

[rzzzzz]

Woj saying that Jimmy wanted to stay, but never got the offer, is blowing up locally and nationally today. maybe it's water under the bridge. no doubt Elton has assembled a really compelling roster this summer with a realistic shot at going all the way. and maybe giving us a better shot than if we had just run it back with who we had last season. but, i got to admit i'm really curious. Jimmy wasn't perfect, but i thought he fit Philly real well. and it seemed like, despite publicized differences with Brett, they were saying good things about each other. heck, i really like the changes Brett made in response to Jimmy's input, even if it was a little heated. and, supposedly, the main core was cool with signing their extensions and keep things intact. but maybe Jimmy really did want to play dominoes with the local Miami dudes. idk.

[eyeatoma]

Ummm link?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[LloydFree]

I don't know why this is even a story on that other blog. Of course Jimmy Butler would have signed a 5 year 190 million dollar contract, IF the 76ers would have offered. I don't get how people who follow this stuff, ever thought the 76ers were going to re-sign both Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris (along with Ben Simmons) to MAX contracts all in the same summer. Who commits that kind of money to a roster that hasn't won anything and is ill-fitting? They knew all along they weren't going to lock themselves into 5 consecutive repeater-Tax years, for the sake of keeping Jimmy Butler.

They saw in January, they weren't going to re-sign Butler, when for weeks, he refused to work within the offense, and take catch-and-shoot-3's. They telegraphed what they had in mind when they obtained Tobias Harris as insurance. They knew all along, that they were going to renounce Butler and Redick (and their capholds), in order to sign someone into capspace. If it wouldn't have been Horford, it would have been Brogdon, if it wasn't Brogdon it would have been Russell...

They knew in January Butler wouldn't be back. They knew in March they were building around Simmons, Embiid and Tobias. They knew in mid-June, they were signing Horford. And the minute they knew Jimmy was interested in Miami, they knew they were going to ask for the same player Miami offered the Timberwolves.

[Eyeamok]

I don't know why this is even a story on that other blog. Of course Jimmy Butler would have signed a 5 year 190 million dollar contract, IF the 76ers would have offered. I don't get how people who follow this stuff, ever thought the 76ers were going to re-sign both Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris (along with Ben Simmons) to MAX contracts all in the same summer. Who commits that kind of money to a roster that hasn't won anything and is ill-fitting? They knew all along they weren't going to lock themselves into 5 consecutive repeater-Tax years, for the sake of keeping Jimmy Butler.

They saw in January, they weren't going to re-sign Butler, when for weeks, he refused to work within the offense, and take catch-and-shoot-3's. They telegraphed what they had in mind when they obtained Tobias Harris as insurance. They knew all along, that they were going to renounce Butler and Redick (and their capholds), in order to sign someone into capspace. If it wouldn't have been Horford, it would have been Brogdon, if it wasn't Brogdon it would have been Russell...

They knew in January Butler wouldn't be back. They knew in March they were building around Simmons, Embiid and Tobias. They knew in mid-June, they were signing Horford. And the minute they knew Jimmy was interested in Miami, they knew they were going to ask for the same player Miami offered the Timberwolves.

LloydFree: I like what you wrote. It makes a lot of sense. But what happens if the ball bounces off the rim. The 76ers go into OT against the Raptors and they win and go to the NBA finals? If they win they don't bring Jimmy back? If they lose they don't bring jimmy back and try to win it all?

Harris basically said in an article this summer. His role was minimized with Jimmy on the team. Not enough touches, especially in that last Raptors game. The 76ers gave up a lot to get Harris. Are you just gonna let him walk after you've just make it to the finals?

I thought one of the telling moments this season was in the playoffs when Brett said James was the adult in the room. Right after that Jimmy came out and said my name is not James it's Jimmy. That was a telling moment. It may seem like much. But if you respect someone you don't basically put them on blast to the media. That's a conversation had behind closed doors. Hey coach my name is Jimmy not James, thank you very much.

Jimmy thought he was in the drivers seat. I think both Elton and Brett saw the writing on the wall. The guy is good but in spurts and he is declining. He is going to have to take time away from Ben and Harris to be effective. Let's get a better option.

[rzzzzz]

Ummm link?

https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/9/5/20847564/source-jimmy-butler-would-have-stayed-for-a-max-sixers-uninterested

[LloydFree]

Spoiler:

I don't know why this is even a story on that other blog. Of course Jimmy Butler would have signed a 5 year 190 million dollar contract, IF the 76ers would have offered. I don't get how people who follow this stuff, ever thought the 76ers were going to re-sign both Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris (along with Ben Simmons) to MAX contracts all in the same summer. Who commits that kind of money to a roster that hasn't won anything and is ill-fitting? They knew all along they weren't going to lock themselves into 5 consecutive repeater-Tax years, for the sake of keeping Jimmy Butler.

They saw in January, they weren't going to re-sign Butler, when for weeks, he refused to work within the offense, and take catch-and-shoot-3's. They telegraphed what they had in mind when they obtained Tobias Harris as insurance. They knew all along, that they were going to renounce Butler and Redick (and their capholds), in order to sign someone into capspace. If it wouldn't have been Horford, it would have been Brogdon, if it wasn't Brogdon it would have been Russell...

They knew in January Butler wouldn't be back. They knew in March they were building around Simmons, Embiid and Tobias. They knew in mid-June, they were signing Horford. And the minute they knew Jimmy was interested in Miami, they knew they were going to ask for the same player Miami offered the Timberwolves

LloydFree: I like what you wrote. It makes a lot of sense. But what happens if the ball bounces off the rim. The 76ers go into OT against the Raptors and they win and go to the NBA finals? If they win they don't bring Jimmy back? If they lose they don't bring jimmy back and try to win it all?

Harris basically said in an article this summer. His role was minimized with Jimmy on the team. Not enough touches, especially in that last Raptors game. The 76ers gave up a lot to get Harris. Are you just gonna let him walk after you've just make it to the finals?

I thought one of the telling moments this season was in the playoffs when Brett said James was the adult in the room. Right after that Jimmy came out and said my name is not James it's Jimmy. That was a telling moment. It may seem like much. But if you respect someone you don't basically put them on blast to the media. That's a conversation had behind closed doors. Hey coach my name is Jimmy not James, thank you very much.

Jimmy thought he was in the drivers seat. I think both Elton and Brett saw the writing on the wall. The guy is good but in spurts and he is declining. He is going to have to take time away from Ben and Harris to be effective. Let's get a better option.

Like I said, nobody commits to paying that kind of Tax bill, for a roster that hasn't won anything. If they would have won the Championship, they would have adjusted their plans. We're looking at this in hindsight. Before the playoffs, nobody thought the 76ers were going to beat the Raptors and nobody in their right mind thought anybody was beating Golden State.

They had no intention of re-signing Butler, but they couldn't let him totally ruin the season, so Brown placated him by letting him have the ball more. This "closer" BS, evolved from that, and was unintentional, IMO.

[rzzzzz]

They knew in January Butler wouldn't be back.

End of season/post season Butler was a different beast, as was expected. and, poisonally, i was glad to see Brett budged towards other schemes, mainly the PnR and putting the ball in Jimmy's hands, if only that he finally was playing to the strengths of one of our high priced acquisitions. and "They" makes me wonder specifically about Biid. (the story claims that Simmons was on board, but i certainly buy the notion that Jimmy usurped his role. though even Ben might realize that his role needed a little usurping until he developed skills necessary for the position.)

you have laid out a very convincing argument as to why this new roster is an improvement, near term and long. Elton could very well end up executive of the year. but Jimmy is still a serious talent, who supplied a lot of energy, and we'll never know how far he could have gone with a healthy Embiid. oh well.

[LloydFree]

They knew in January Butler wouldn't be back.

End of season/post season Butler was a different beast, as was expected. and, poisonally, i was glad to see Brett budged towards other schemes, mainly the PnR and putting the ball in Jimmy's hands, if only that he finally was playing to the strengths of one of our high priced acquisitions. and "They" makes me wonder specifically about Biid. (the story claims that Simmons was on board, but i certainly buy the notion that Jimmy usurped his role. though even Ben might realize that his role needed a little usurping until he developed skills necessary for the position.)

you have laid out a very convincing argument as to why this new roster is an improvement, near term and long. Elton could very well end up executive of the year. but Jimmy is still a serious talent, who supplied a lot of energy, and we'll never know how far he could have gone with a healthy Embiid. oh well.

No he wasn't. He was 19-6-5 in the playoffs and 18-5-4 in the regular season. He also shot .267% from 3, in the playoffs. He wasn't any better. In the playoffs than the regular season

[rzzzzz]

he was also the guy you could give the ball at the end of a game. (remember how he grabbed the rebound, ran the court and tied things in game 6?) something we lacked for years. that's not to say that Harris or Josh couldn't develop into that. heck, i fantasize Brett running things through a less depleted Embiid down the stretch. but Jimmy has star level intangibles.

[LloydFree]

he was also the guy you could give the ball at the end of a game. (remember how he grabbed the rebound, ran the court and tied things in game 6?) something we lacked for years. that's not to say that Harris or Josh couldn't develop into that. heck, i fantasize Brett running things through a less depleted Embiid down the stretch. but Jimmy has star level intangibles.

If Jimmy Butler hadn't been 1-6 from 3pt range in game 7, he wouldn't have had to run down the court to TIE the game, they would've already had the lead, and won the game.

[rzzzzz]

If Jimmy Butler hadn't been 1-6 from 3pt range in game 7, he wouldn't have had to run down the court to TIE the game, they would've already had the lead, and won the game.

if Brett had sketched up a decent play down the stretch, while we were holding the Raptors scoreless, we would have done better than air balls and shotclock violations and won the game. if JoJo wasn't so sick, he wouldn't have missed so many easy shots down the stretch of game 4, and we would have gone up 3-1. yeah, i know, its why you have to play the game. but there's a reason why Jimmy comes in at #11 in the poll on the General Board. he is generally held in regard by a lot of passionate lunkheads throughout the whole site. there are also a lot of analysts all over sports media who thoroughly agree with your enthusiasm of Elton's trade and acquisitions. i think i agree with that enthusiasm. but i'm going to miss Jimmy. and i hope that JoJo will continue to enjoy himself as much as he seemed to last year.

[the_process]

I don't know why this is even a story on that other blog. Of course Jimmy Butler would have signed a 5 year 190 million dollar contract, IF the 76ers would have offered. I don't get how people who follow this stuff, ever thought the 76ers were going to re-sign both Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris (along with Ben Simmons) to MAX contracts all in the same summer. Who commits that kind of money to a roster that hasn't won anything and is ill-fitting? They knew all along they weren't going to lock themselves into 5 consecutive repeater-Tax years, for the sake of keeping Jimmy Butler.

They saw in January, they weren't going to re-sign Butler, when for weeks, he refused to work within the offense, and take catch-and-shoot-3's. They telegraphed what they had in mind when they obtained Tobias Harris as insurance. They knew all along, that they were going to renounce Butler and Redick (and their capholds), in order to sign someone into capspace. If it wouldn't have been Horford, it would have been Brogdon, if it wasn't Brogdon it would have been Russell...

They knew in January Butler wouldn't be back. They knew in March they were building around Simmons, Embiid and Tobias. They knew in mid-June, they were signing Horford. And the minute they knew Jimmy was interested in Miami, they knew they were going to ask for the same player Miami offered the Timberwolves.

I agree that the evidence does seem to lead to this conclusion.

[Bum Adebayo]

Always the same, 3pt shooting. Can you guys appreciate other qualities in a player for once? this stupid notion that it is all about 3pt shooting needs to die. Jimmy is a player that can get you buckets when you need them most, at least most of the time. And this is absolutely fine. No, he doesn't need to, and thankfully he didn't with us, change his role to spot up shooting, it is not his strength and never will be, he is not good enough as a shooter for that. In that case, it is Sixers fault for trading for him in the first place, they knew what kind of player he was.

[XtremeDunkz]

Always the same, 3pt shooting. Can you guys appreciate other qualities in a player for once? this stupid notion that it is all about 3pt shooting needs to die. Jimmy is a player that can get you buckets when you need them most, at least most of the time. And this is absolutely fine. No, he doesn't need to, and thankfully he didn't with us, change his role to spot up shooting, it is not his strength and never will be, he is not good enough as a shooter for that. In that case, it is Sixers fault for trading for him in the first place, they knew what kind of player he was.

The people that don't appreciate what Jimmy does on the court can't be convinced otherwise so don't waste your time. Jimmy was our best player in the playoffs, but if Embiid and Ben want to earn their money, they need to step up and fill that role now.

[downtownpie]

Moving on from butler was the right move.

[kingofthecourt67]

They knew in January Butler wouldn't be back.

End of season/post season Butler was a different beast, as was expected. and, poisonally, i was glad to see Brett budged towards other schemes, mainly the PnR and putting the ball in Jimmy's hands, if only that he finally was playing to the strengths of one of our high priced acquisitions. and "They" makes me wonder specifically about Biid. (the story claims that Simmons was on board, but i certainly buy the notion that Jimmy usurped his role. though even Ben might realize that his role needed a little usurping until he developed skills necessary for the position.)

you have laid out a very convincing argument as to why this new roster is an improvement, near term and long. Elton could very well end up executive of the year. but Jimmy is still a serious talent, who supplied a lot of energy, and we'll never know how far he could have gone with a healthy Embiid. oh well.

No he wasn't. He was 19-6-5 in the playoffs and 18-5-4 in the regular season. He also shot .267% from 3, in the playoffs. He wasn't any better. In the playoffs than the regular season

I’ve attempted to engage you in a similar debate by responding to you in a previous thread but you didn’t respond. You can’t just look at numbers.

Clearly you could see the way he played between the regular season and post season were different. The numbers might be the same, but they’re not not equal. In the regular season, he was coasting, and a 3rd option. In the post season, when points were harder to come by, he initiated the offense. When defenses tightened up, and Ben Simmons wilted and Embiid was a TO machine, Jimmy stabilized us. We don’t get as close without him. There is no need to disrespect his contributions because you’ve cherry picked one aspect of his game that doesn’t suit the ideal player.

[LloydFree]

End of season/post season Butler was a different beast, as was expected. and, poisonally, i was glad to see Brett budged towards other schemes, mainly the PnR and putting the ball in Jimmy's hands, if only that he finally was playing to the strengths of one of our high priced acquisitions. and "They" makes me wonder specifically about Biid. (the story claims that Simmons was on board, but i certainly buy the notion that Jimmy usurped his role. though even Ben might realize that his role needed a little usurping until he developed skills necessary for the position.)

you have laid out a very convincing argument as to why this new roster is an improvement, near term and long. Elton could very well end up executive of the year. but Jimmy is still a serious talent, who supplied a lot of energy, and we'll never know how far he could have gone with a healthy Embiid. oh well.

No he wasn't. He was 19-6-5 in the playoffs and 18-5-4 in the regular season. He also shot .267% from 3, in the playoffs. He wasn't any better. In the playoffs than the regular season

I’ve attempted to engage you in a similar debate by responding to you in a previous thread but you didn’t respond. You can’t just look at numbers.

Clearly you could see the way he played between the regular season and post season were different. The numbers might be the same, but they’re not not equal. In the regular season, he was coasting, and a 3rd option. In the post season, when points were harder to come by, he initiated the offense. When defenses tightened up, and Ben Simmons wilted and Embiid was a TO machine, Jimmy stabilized us. We don’t get as close without him. There is no need to disrespect his contributions because you’ve cherry picked one aspect of his game that doesn’t suit the ideal player.

Not to be rude, but once someone initiates a debate with "you just can't look at the numbers" we already know this is going to be a waste of time. I have no time to argue when I see multiple people post stupidity about Jimmy Butler being the 76ers best player in the playoffs, all while Joel Embiid led the entire NBA in playoff +/- (through 2 rounds) and was +10 in a game 7, that they lost by 2, when he played 46 of the 48 minutes.

[rzzzzz]

Not to be rude, but once someone initiates a debate with "you just can't look at the numbers"

not to be obsessive, but i can't totally lay off the intangibles thing. admittedly, i can't find the +/- numbers on Chamberlain and Russell. but they're both real close on career rebounds and assists per game. Chamberlain has about twice the scoring average. if Chamberlain had played for USF instead of Kansas, maybe he wins a couple of NCAA titles. surely if he had played in the Olympics, there's a great chance they win with him as well. but if he goes to Boston, does he win 11 titles? great team and outstanding coach. but his Sixer team weren't exactly chump change. and i remember those 7 game series, tight as you can get. Wilt broke through in 67, but those other times, Russell seemed (to me) to wear him out just enough to steal those other titles. maybe being the toughest team sports competitor shows up in some stats, besides number of championships. otherwise, it's the best example of intangibles that i can think of. (meanwhile, with Jimmy gone, i'm looking forward to Harris' numbers going up this year, as well as him and Josh and JoJo stepping up for end of game heroics.)
(and didn't KL also miss a bunch of 3s that game b4 hitting the last second 4 bouncer?)

[mike76]

No he wasn't. He was 19-6-5 in the playoffs and 18-5-4 in the regular season. He also shot .267% from 3, in the playoffs. He wasn't any better. In the playoffs than the regular season

I’ve attempted to engage you in a similar debate by responding to you in a previous thread but you didn’t respond. You can’t just look at numbers.

Clearly you could see the way he played between the regular season and post season were different. The numbers might be the same, but they’re not not equal. In the regular season, he was coasting, and a 3rd option. In the post season, when points were harder to come by, he initiated the offense. When defenses tightened up, and Ben Simmons wilted and Embiid was a TO machine, Jimmy stabilized us. We don’t get as close without him. There is no need to disrespect his contributions because you’ve cherry picked one aspect of his game that doesn’t suit the ideal player.

Not to be rude, but once someone initiates a debate with "you just can't look at the numbers" we already know this is going to be a waste of time. I have no time to argue when I see multiple people post stupidity about Jimmy Butler being the 76ers best player in the playoffs, all while Joel Embiid led the entire NBA in playoff +/- (through 2 rounds) and was +10 in a game 7, that they lost by 2, when he played 46 of the 48 minutes.

I mean the plus/minus definitely makes a compelling argument for Embiid being our best player in that Toronto series as he was a monster defensively.

But I don't think it's a bad take to say that Butler was our best offensive player in the Raptors series.
Jimmy: 56.4% TS%, 48.3 eFG%, 24.8% USG%, 5.6 AST, 2 TO, 108 OffRtg
Tobias (who really struggled when matched up against Siakim): 46.5% TS, 44% eFG%, 20.2% USG%, 3.9 AST, 2 TO, 100 OffRtg

And really, we seemed to pick front-loaded Horford + Tobias over not front-loaded Horford + Butler (which if you're trying to contend next year, that seems to be wrong pick).

So really, it seemed we decided to put out an inferior product just so that Harris wouldn't have to pay the tax this year (and Roco became a sunk cost as well)

[kingofthecourt67]

No he wasn't. He was 19-6-5 in the playoffs and 18-5-4 in the regular season. He also shot .267% from 3, in the playoffs. He wasn't any better. In the playoffs than the regular season

I’ve attempted to engage you in a similar debate by responding to you in a previous thread but you didn’t respond. You can’t just look at numbers.

Clearly you could see the way he played between the regular season and post season were different. The numbers might be the same, but they’re not not equal. In the regular season, he was coasting, and a 3rd option. In the post season, when points were harder to come by, he initiated the offense. When defenses tightened up, and Ben Simmons wilted and Embiid was a TO machine, Jimmy stabilized us. We don’t get as close without him. There is no need to disrespect his contributions because you’ve cherry picked one aspect of his game that doesn’t suit the ideal player.

Not to be rude, but once someone initiates a debate with "you just can't look at the numbers" we already know this is going to be a waste of time. I have no time to argue when I see multiple people post stupidity about Jimmy Butler being the 76ers best player in the playoffs, all while Joel Embiid led the entire NBA in playoff +/- (through 2 rounds) and was +10 in a game 7, that they lost by 2, when he played 46 of the 48 minutes.

lol okay I apologize for wasting your time trying to have a debate about basketball on a basketball message forum