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Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2701 » by super_balls » Mon Sep 9, 2019 1:57 pm

And1Skip wrote:
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Damn, we NEED more NBA players for next July to have a sliver a chance. Lots of good teams going to be in the qualifying tourney. We should have won this game. Way too many missed "WIDE OPEN" shots and layups.


Please man, no more Klassen or Morgan :nonono:
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2702 » by young11a » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:04 pm

Alfred wrote:
21 TD wrote:It'll probably never happen obviously, but theoretically, what would the ideal team Canada be?

Starters: Olynyk, Wiggins, Thompson, Murray, Joseph

Bench: Barrett, Gilgeous-Alexander, Powell

On the bubble: Kabengele, Brooks, Clarke, Alexander-Walker, Birch, Lyles, Boucher, Ejim, Heslip, Pangos, P. Scrubb, T. Scrubb, Stauskas, Wiltjer


Wiggins is one of the worst players in the NBA FWIW. I wouldn't even want him on the team.



Well he was our best player on the team that should of made the Olympics but our dumb coach put doornekamp in for him and we lost to a terrible Venezuelan team
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2703 » by mathgeek » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:09 pm

So what is the window of commitment for next year's qualifying tournament + Olympics? I think it's much greater than the world cup if we do somehow end up making the Olympics. I'm very pessimistic about our top guys committing to this which is pretty sad for Canada's so called golden generation.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2704 » by DaFroMan » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:10 pm

Nurse road with klassen morgan Keane and nehmbard too long to end the 3rd and start the 4th... basically gifted Germany the game in my opinion.

Germany was riding their main guys heavy minutes specifically Schroeder why not us?? Its the last game of the tourney ffs
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2705 » by mathgeek » Mon Sep 9, 2019 2:25 pm

DaFroMan wrote:Nurse road with klassen morgan Keane and nehmbard too long to end the 3rd and start the 4th... basically gifted Germany the game in my opinion.

Germany was riding their main guys heavy minutes specifically Schroeder why not us?? Its the last game of the tourney ffs


I agree but you can't risk running guys to the ground on a game where you are playing for the 19th seed. It could send a bad message to other players joining the national team in the future. I give credit to Nurse for even committing to the team after sitting on top of the world from winning a championship. It's unfortunate and embarrassing quite frankly as an organization to recruit, in my opinion, one of the better coaches in the NBA and not get a commitment from these primadonnas, who have basically used the national team program in their youth to gain valuable exposure as players.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2706 » by ___Rand___ » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:10 pm

I'm really disappointed that only 2 guys from NBA showed up for team canada. Where are the guys who wanted to make it back to NBA? This is so disappointing. I'm talking with friends from other countries. They are like, why Canada suck? Where are the guys who are/were in NBA? I'm like I don't know why they didn't show up? With so many out they'd get playing time why they didn't come? Why didn't Nash recruit better? I don't know? So glad Bianca is saving grace of Canadian sports scene this summer.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2707 » by frumble » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:24 pm

DaFroMan wrote:Nurse road with klassen morgan Keane and nehmbard too long to end the 3rd and start the 4th... basically gifted Germany the game in my opinion.

Germany was riding their main guys heavy minutes specifically Schroeder why not us?? Its the last game of the tourney ffs


Yeah, that extended set with Birch, Wiltjer, Ejim, and Pangos on the bench at the same time was brutal. Double digit lead turned into a 6- or 7-point deficit pretty quickly. I don't understand why Nurse doesn't stagger the substitutions a little more.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2708 » by frumble » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:29 pm

So the qualification tournaments are on the FIBA calendar for June 23 to 28.
Anyone know what the format will be? Not enough time for full round robin. So maybe two groups of three, play two group games and then top 4 play in cross-over semis followed by finals?

And anyone know if the 24 teams will be allocated across the six tournaments purely on the basis of FIBA rankings? Or through a lottery system that is heavily based on the rankings? Any regional component to the allocation?

Lastly, do the February FIBA Americas qualifying games count in the rankings? If so, are those the only games that will take place b/w World Cup and last-chance qualifying tournaments that will affect the rankings?
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2709 » by Hungry » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:34 pm

21 TD wrote:It'll probably never happen obviously, but theoretically, what would the ideal team Canada be?

Starters: Olynyk, Wiggins, Thompson, Murray, Joseph

Bench: Barrett, Gilgeous-Alexander, Powell

On the bubble: Kabengele, Brooks, Clarke, Alexander-Walker, Birch, Lyles, Boucher, Ejim, Heslip, Pangos, P. Scrubb, T. Scrubb, Stauskas, Wiltjer


Let's start with the following conditions/assumptions. Looking at the roster for a full tournament (vs one game), players are at their current skill level, all players are fully healthy at the beginning of (but not necessarily within) the tournament, NN is the head coach, all players are fully accepting of any/all roles and minutes provided

Guards - Joseph, Pangos, Murray, SGA. I strongly prioritize having lots of options for guys who can run the point. You don't know when injuries can kick in, or a guy is simply rattled/ineffective as the primary ball handler, having flexibility is key. There's also enough size that you could (but don't need to) run any combination of the two in most situations.

Wings - RJ, Brooks - not a whole lot to say here. Have a difficult time envisioning Wiggins role on a good team where he's not needed as a primary scorer but that could be me being narrow minded, I could be talked into it

Bigs - Olynyk, Powell, Birch. Clearly you need a 4th (and potentially 5th) big. It feels like it should be Tristan, but when I think about it critically I'm not so sure. Much of his role is filled by Birch, you'd never play the two of them together, and I wouldn't say you should have 1 of them on the floor at all times. Trey Lyles makes more sense, and you could play him with any of the other 3.

For the last two spots, you're looking between Stauskas, Wiggins, Scrubbs, Ejim and Thompson. I'd probably go Stauskas and Thompson personally but there's definitely arguments to be made otherwise.

This would give you a roster with tons of flexibility and possible lineups to roll out. Deep enough to ride the hot hands/matchups and overcome injury to any player.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2710 » by ItsDanger » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:37 pm

mathgeek wrote: who have basically used the national team program in their youth to gain valuable exposure as players.


This is the key part. Everyone, just match up the players participation in these tournaments with their own personal status. Once they have achieved something, the need for the exposure drops. We'll see next summer, the olympics should be right after the qualifiers. Its put up or shut up time.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2711 » by steadysoul » Mon Sep 9, 2019 3:54 pm

frumble wrote:So the qualification tournaments are on the FIBA calendar for June 23 to 28.
Anyone know what the format will be? Not enough time for full round robin. So maybe two groups of three, play two group games and then top 4 play in cross-over semis followed by finals?

And anyone know if the 24 teams will be allocated across the six tournaments purely on the basis of FIBA rankings? Or through a lottery system that is heavily based on the rankings? Any regional component to the allocation?

Lastly, do the February FIBA Americas qualifying games count in the rankings? If so, are those the only games that will take place b/w World Cup and last-chance qualifying tournaments that will affect the rankings?


If last year is any indication FIBA will use the draw in the same fashion leaning on regional balance. Host likely to get top seeds. I'm not sure what they intend to be in terms of the Rankings. They might count them all but may have a cut off date of what they're counting. Like rankings as of blank(likely before any games after the fwc)
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2712 » by And1Skip » Mon Sep 9, 2019 5:33 pm

Doug Smith's hate for Rowan Barrett continues because Barrett was apparently disrespecting his buddy Triano again
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2713 » by TrueNorth31 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 6:34 pm

The best thing we have moving forward I think is the enthusiasm and commitment of Nick Nurse. We somehow need 4 - 5 more Euro League level or higher Canadians to commit to the program. At this level talent with reasonable preparation wins. Good story by Lori Ewing quoting Nurse extensively;

"From a logistics or tactical thing, (this trip) has been a really good learning experience for me to figure out where we’re going. I’ve learned a lot about the setup, the team, the structure of FIBA, just everything. I’m ready now," he said. "I see where we need to go and I’m really ready."

Is he confident he can procure a commitment from a player like Jamal Murray?

"I don’t think we’re a million miles away from those (NBA) guys. It’s not like I’m looking up this huge Jamal Murray mountain to climb, and figuring out how I’m going to get there — with a number of guys," Nurse said. "I don’t think it’s going to be as big a mountain to climb as everybody thinks."

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/raptors-canada-mens-basketball-coach-nick-nurse-savours-sweet-summer/
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2714 » by TrueNorth31 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 7:07 pm

Mike Ganter's story from the same presser;

"Having achieved a number of his life goals this calendar year, one, or at least one that Nurse is ready to talk about, remains — coaching a team in the Olympics. He was there as an assistant in 2012 with Great Britain but on his bucket list is to get there as a head coach."

https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/life-has-changed-for-raptors-coach-nick-nurse-in-wake-of-nba-title

Again the question - do any players have the Olympics on their bucket list ? Does Andrew Wiggins who grew up in a household where his mother Marita Payne got 2 Olympic silver medals in LA in 1984, see being an Olympian as a positive experience ( given his relative lack of participation I'm not so sure) ? The same for SGA whose mother Charmaine was an Olympic sprinter for Antigua and Barbuda in the 1992 Olympics. Do these guys and others even give a **** ? Do they have being an Olympian on their bucket list? That's the question - and hopefully the Canadian basketball media finds out.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2715 » by SHFT » Mon Sep 9, 2019 7:21 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:Mike Ganter's story from the same presser;

"Having achieved a number of his life goals this calendar year, one, or at least one that Nurse is ready to talk about, remains — coaching a team in the Olympics. He was there as an assistant in 2012 with Great Britain but on his bucket list is to get there as a head coach."

https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/life-has-changed-for-raptors-coach-nick-nurse-in-wake-of-nba-title

Again the question - do any players have the Olympics on their bucket list ? Does Andrew Wiggins who grew up in a household where his mother Marita Payne got 2 Olympic silver medals in LA in 1984 see being an Olympian as a positive experience ? The same for SGA whose mother Charmaine was an Olympic sprinter for Antigua and Barbuda in the 1992 Olympics. Do these guys and others even give a **** ? Do they have being an Olympian on their bucket list? That's the question - and hopefully the Canadian basketball media finds out.


I sure as **** hope they do. I can understand not wanting to play in the FIBA WC as a competition (even though we clearly dont have the overall talent to not have our best guys be no shows, injuries aside) but the Olympics are a different animal with a totally different sense of pride. I HOPE most of these guys just assumed we would breeze through this tournament and then they could show up for the Olympics (even though its still a terrible excuse).

Maybe we need to wait another 20 years or so where we have like 50 players in the NBA so when our best 10 dont show, we can still field an an entire roster of NBA talent on any stage.

Its disappointing AF so far, I just assumed all these guys had huge chips on their shoulder being a Canadian baller in an American bballing world.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2716 » by mojo13 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 9:04 pm

frumble wrote:So the qualification tournaments are on the FIBA calendar for June 23 to 28.
Anyone know what the format will be? Not enough time for full round robin. So maybe two groups of three, play two group games and then top 4 play in cross-over semis followed by finals?

And anyone know if the 24 teams will be allocated across the six tournaments purely on the basis of FIBA rankings? Or through a lottery system that is heavily based on the rankings? Any regional component to the allocation?

Lastly, do the February FIBA Americas qualifying games count in the rankings? If so, are those the only games that will take place b/w World Cup and last-chance qualifying tournaments that will affect the rankings?



Frumble - FIBA has it on the website that it is by ranking.

By my estimates look for:
Americas: Mexico, Uruguay,
Asia: China, South Korea/Philippines (rankings too close to call right now - Philippines is ranked slightly better, but SK finished better)
Africa: Senegal, Angola
Europe: Croatia, Slovenia


The WC Qualifications games do count but they were heavily discounted. FIBA is supposedly tweaking the ranking formula again after this WC with more heavy weight on recency. Supposedly it will only go back 7 years (instead of 8) and those late years will have a much less weighting with more recent being higher weighted.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2717 » by mojo13 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 9:17 pm

A week or so back Mike George - Canadian agent to a bunch of these guys (Powell, Murray, Brissett, Wiggninton, Brooks, Birch), ex-CIA Bounce etc, had a Twitter rant defending the players who didn't play. Blamed it mostly on the stupid schedule, time commitment, time of the year, young players earlier in their careers without meaningful contracts and on injuries etc. He was adamant about totally defending the desire of players to play. Saying they very much want to, are committed to the program and on and on. He said there will be way better participation next summer as it is a much better time of year, they guys will be in shape etc. He also said we had full turnout in the 2016 Manila Qualifier which isn't really true. We'll see....


It is a locked account, but I'll see if I can dig them out and post here.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2718 » by TrueNorth31 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 9:36 pm

Very long and thorough post - mortem by Grange ( he mentions George).

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/canadas-result-wc-improvement-frustrating-nonetheless/
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2719 » by mojo13 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 10:11 pm

TrueNorth31 wrote:Very long and thorough post - mortem by Grange ( he mentions George).

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/canadas-result-wc-improvement-frustrating-nonetheless/


Thanks - I won't dig out the Tweets then as it is pretty much the same as his quote in the article.
Personally I think he is partially right, but there is a load of BS in there. Powell seems to fall outside his list of convenient excuses. Wiggins to of course - but thats not his client. At least he didnt seem to prevent Birch or Brissett from playing. Ejim is his client too, so hopefully at least we can be sure Mike George is not against all his guys playin.
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Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0 

Post#2720 » by 21 TD » Mon Sep 9, 2019 10:15 pm

Alfred wrote:Wiggins is one of the worst players in the NBA FWIW. I wouldn't even want him on the team.


gundysmullet wrote:SGA and Murray start in the back court over Joseph at this point. Brooks or Barrett at the three, Olynyk and Powell at the five and four. And then you’ve got TT, Burch, Boucher, Clarke and Kabangele at the fours and fives.


I know, but generally in international basketball seniority rules. Plus, these players are all of similar caliber for the time being and they'll probably want to reward the loyalty of the likes of Joseph, Thompson and Olynyk.

Hungry wrote:Bigs - Olynyk, Powell, Birch. Clearly you need a 4th (and potentially 5th) big. It feels like it should be Tristan, but when I think about it critically I'm not so sure. Much of his role is filled by Birch, you'd never play the two of them together, and I wouldn't say you should have 1 of them on the floor at all times. Trey Lyles makes more sense, and you could play him with any of the other 3.

For the last two spots, you're looking between Stauskas, Wiggins, Scrubbs, Ejim and Thompson. I'd probably go Stauskas and Thompson personally but there's definitely arguments to be made otherwise.


You definitely don't need five bigs. Thompson, Birch and to a lesser extent Powell, all fill the same role, but Olynyk and Powell don't have the strength to bang with a Jokic, Valanciunas, etc.

Then again, given the lack of shooting, you could argue going with one of Thompson or Birch and a stretch four, either Lyles or Wiltjer.

I can't see them not picking Wiggins. Flawed as he is, big, athletic wings are in high demand and short supply, which will help Ejim's prospects. If the U.S.A. has so much as their B team, you'll need those two and Barrett just to be able to physically match-up.

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