If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 30?

[Cactus Jack]

Pfft. It's far from being the greatest team sport. **** has too many stoppages in play. There's 10 secs of action for every minute of inaction. Gives you aot of time to grab a beer or make a hamburger sandwich I guess.

And yet you appear to be a fan of Baseball (BlueJays logo)???

Baseball, a sport that is as appealing to watch as watching paint dry for 3 hours no less.

Fwiw If you watched the NFL Redzone Channel on a Sunday, I bet you would have a different opinion on the matter.

Living in toronto I try to support all of the pro sports teams. Baseball is boring to watch, don't disagree with you about that. Football, due to the constant stoppages, isn't much fun to watch either imo. And now that big hits are being penalized to protect players' brains, it's become even less fun to watch. It's by far the most watched sport in the USA but I feel that because it turns players' brains into mush, it'll become less and less popular in the coming decades.

That's why god invented the NFL Redzone Channel. 7 Hours of commercial free Football.

Football is here to stay.

[shakes0]

Not even close. Talk to me when Tom Brady plays some defense.

[Sgt Major]

**** stupid handegg, most boring team sport on the planet

Jordan all the way

[bwgood77]

6 superbowls is far more impressive than 6 NBA championships.

as someone who doesn't watch football, why do you say that? my understanding is that individual NBA players influence the outcome in basketball more than individuals in football?

You are right, which is what makes Brady's accomplishments all the more impressive, because he DID influence the team to win all, if not most of those championships. Without him I doubt they win any of them.

[thebigbird]

No. Bill Russell has 11, and he’s not considered the greatest. It isn’t all about the rings. There are other factors.
1) Jordan never lost in the finals. Brady lost 3 superbowls.
2) Brady’s career is way longer than Jordan’s. That’s a longevity vs peak excellence argument.
3) Jordan had more mvps.
4) Brady and the Pats were caught cheating at least twice.
5) Jordan was an excellent defender and won defensive player of the year. Brady doesn’t play defense.

In what world is making the super bowl 9 times and winning 6 worse than making the finals 6 times and winning 6? Brady has won it all just as much and has also made it to the final round 3 times. He's won more than Jordan, and you consider that worse? Makes literally zero sense.

[LakersLegacy]

In football teams don’t repeat championships as frequently as basketball. So it’s absolutely insane that Brady can even catch MJ in rings.

[Pg81]

No. Bill Russell has 11, and he’s not considered the greatest. It isn’t all about the rings. There are other factors.
1) Jordan never lost in the finals. Brady lost 3 superbowls.
2) Brady’s career is way longer than Jordan’s. That’s a longevity vs peak excellence argument.
3) Jordan had more mvps.
4) Brady and the Pats were caught cheating at least twice.
5) Jordan was an excellent defender and won defensive player of the year. Brady doesn’t play defense.

Bill Russell is considered by quite a few as the greatest and not just because of rings.

lol. Yeah, I know. Lebron didn't even make it into the on-deck circle last year. Unlike Gobert & Simmons. But if you read closely, I'm actually giving Lebron more credit than Jordan for having to go up against tougher competition.

I read it. It's an absolute joke of a statement made much more laughable by including names like Doncic, Gobert and Simmons while ommiting Curry and the Warriors.

Again, you just illustrate the point that the NBA talent pool is massive in compared to the NFL and keeps getting bigger, while the NFL is still confined to the US. The real joke of a statement was that you tried to prove your point by mentioning Shaq and Barkley - 2 guys who wouldn't be superstars in this era. Maybe Duncan too. Still, I'm mostly agreeing with you.

I saw what you did there

Lebron has a peak that can easily be argued against mj’s And significantly greater longetivity. People are getting defensive now, but in 4 years lebron will be viewed in the same light as Messi while Jordan is viewed like a pele or a maradona. Being a combination of Jordan and Kareem is gonna make “rings erneh” less and less important as time goes on.

If stats matters, then Wilt Chamberlain is the undisputed GOAT.

But since he won only 1 ring as a best player in his team, noone would put him above Jordan.

Also, LeBron played in the Weak Eastern Conference and has a Finals record of 3-6.

So I wouldn't really say that he's on same level as Jordan.

[mplsfonz23]

Hard to compare between sports imo.

I'd probably put both Woods and Williams above either, but if we're just talking about team sports then I guess both would be at the top.

This would be my answer. Kind of like race car driving, you could include Mario Andretti or Dale Earnhardt as the best.
But both can impose their will on others, but Brady like Jordan can turn bums into superstars.

[Effigy]

No. Bill Russell has 11, and he’s not considered the greatest. It isn’t all about the rings. There are other factors.
1) Jordan never lost in the finals. Brady lost 3 superbowls.
2) Brady’s career is way longer than Jordan’s. That’s a longevity vs peak excellence argument.
3) Jordan had more mvps.
4) Brady and the Pats were caught cheating at least twice.
5) Jordan was an excellent defender and won defensive player of the year. Brady doesn’t play defense.

In what world is making the super bowl 9 times and winning 6 worse than making the finals 6 times and winning 6? Brady has won it all just as much and has also made it to the final round 3 times. He's won more than Jordan, and you consider that worse? Makes literally zero sense.

IT's one bulletpoint on a list, meant to be taken together, not saying that each reason alone is the reason that Jordan was better. But Once Jordan hit his prime and won his first title he never lost in the playoffs again when he played a full season, until his second come back when he was past his prime playing for the Wizards. It's not just that he was 6-0 in the finals but lost lots of times before that. After 1991 when he won his first, he never lost in the playoffs again when he played a full year. Brady doesnt have that at all. He won early when he was a caretaker on a really good team, and lost several times when he hit his prime. Jordan never did. Jordan has six finals mvps. He was the main reason his team won every year. That’s not true for Tom. No disrespect to Tom. He’s obviously the Goat in the NFL. But he’s not topping MJ.

[dakomish23]

When he does the equivalent of stripping Malone before the game winning offensive play, then I'll put him above MJ.

[XxIronChainzxX]

No. Bill Russell has 11, and he’s not considered the greatest. It isn’t all about the rings. There are other factors.
1) Jordan never lost in the finals. Brady lost 3 superbowls.
2) Brady’s career is way longer than Jordan’s. That’s a longevity vs peak excellence argument.
3) Jordan had more mvps.
4) Brady and the Pats were caught cheating at least twice.
5) Jordan was an excellent defender and won defensive player of the year. Brady doesn’t play defense.

In what world is making the super bowl 9 times and winning 6 worse than making the finals 6 times and winning 6? Brady has won it all just as much and has also made it to the final round 3 times. He's won more than Jordan, and you consider that worse? Makes literally zero sense.

Now we're all having flashbacks to the Jordan vs. LeBron debates. The difference with football is that it's not just an individual achivement.

We can debate 9 Finals vs. 3peat x2 in part because LeBron carried lottery teams to the Finals 3 of those times. Brady's losses just illustrate the limits to his own game and the team in a way that Jordan's wins (and his early losses) don't.

[kevC]

Michael Phelps

[Danny1616]

When he does the equivalent of stripping Malone before the game winning offensive play, then I'll put him above MJ.

He led his team to an overtime victory over the Falcons after being down 28-3 in the Super Bowl.

In doing so, he broke an NFL record throwing over 200 yards in the 4th quarter and overtime.

Oh and the 2nd biggest comeback in Super Bowl history was Brady leading his team down 24-14 in the 4th quarter in the 2014 Super Bowl against one of the greatest defenses ever in the Seattle Seahawks.

So Brady is responsible for the two greatest comebacks in Super Bowl history.

He's the definition of clutch.

[freethedevil]

No. Bill Russell has 11, and he’s not considered the greatest. It isn’t all about the rings. There are other factors.
1) Jordan never lost in the finals. Brady lost 3 superbowls.

6-3>6

Wow, It’s a good thing I had 4 other points then and that wasn’t my whole argument. Which you must have seen since you deleted them. Next time, try reading the whole thing please.

It was the only one relevant to winning, so nah. There's no reaosn why 6-0 would be better than 6-3 so literally the only point you made about winning was stupid.

And while we're on it:
Russell -> 11-2
Kareem -> 6-4
Jordan -> 6-0
Magic -> 5-4
Kobe -> 5-2
Duncan 5-> 1

VS

Brady -> 6-3
Bradshaw -> 4-0
Montana -> 4-0

Who won more straight up? brady
Who won more relative to their peers? brady

Brady is the greater winner. /thread

Who was the greater player? You can argue basketball players inherently have more impact than qb's

greater winner? There's no discussion to be had here.

[KembaWalker]

comparing the GOAT between sports is kinda dumb and just ends in what sport you like more or whatever personal biases you have toward the 2 players. Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, Messi, Phelps, Bolt, Federer, Ali etc are in the same tier.

[freethedevil]

comparing the GOAT between sports is kinda dumb and just ends in what sport you like more or whatever personal biases you have toward the 2 players. Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, Messi, Phelps, Bolt, Federer, Ali etc are in the same tier.

They really aren't. Some goat's here have multiple competing cases while others, like usain bolt, phelps, and brady don't.

[KembaWalker]

comparing the GOAT between sports is kinda dumb and just ends in what sport you like more or whatever personal biases you have toward the 2 players. Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, Messi, Phelps, Bolt, Federer, Ali etc are in the same tier.

They really aren't. Some goat's here have multiple competing cases while others, like usain bolt, phelps, and brady don't.

I mean its easier to be an undisputed GOAT in a sport thats timed cause the times kind of speak for themselves. Brady has just as much competition as any of those guys. Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Jim Brown etc are right there near Bradys though fall somewhat short similar to KAJ and LeBron in basketball. Going by your standard Gretzky is the guy you should be pointing out, not Brady

[freethedevil]

comparing the GOAT between sports is kinda dumb and just ends in what sport you like more or whatever personal biases you have toward the 2 players. Brady, Jordan, Gretzky, Ruth, Messi, Phelps, Bolt, Federer, Ali etc are in the same tier.

They really aren't. Some goat's here have multiple competing cases while others, like usain bolt, phelps, and brady don't.

I mean its easier to be an undisputed GOAT in a sport thats timed cause the times kind of speak for themselves. Brady has just as much competition as any of those guys. Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Jim Brown

What are any of those player's cases against brady? They didn't win as much. They didn't have similar longetvity, and you specifically have to add the qualifier of positions to argue impact.

etc are right there near Bradys though fall somewhat short similar to KAJ and LeBron in basketball.

The equivalency is disingeuous. Lebron is a few years short of being a messi replica, kareem's career and case is a near replica of brady's. Russell is the greatest winner in team sports and has the best resume. Russell, kareem, and lebron all have unique cases for goat that jordan can't replicate. That's a far cry from brady where you have to add a qualification like 'relative to position" or take an extreme filter like "best season" or "most mvp's" to argue someone else's case against him.

Messi for that matter has multiple cases that can be made against him. in terms on winning, maradona, pele, ronaldo, and zidane all have great to iron clad cases against him. Pele has better per game stats and maradona's peak where he took a 11th ranked serie a side to the title or where he carried mediocre argentina sides to championships is probably higher if we look at in-era dominance.

Going by your standard Gretzky is the guy you should be pointing out, not Brady

Not really. Orr has a stronger case against gretsky than anyone has against brady. If i was inclined, i could look at orr's peak or career +/-, his ability to both be the league's best defender and it's leading scorer and just say relative to era orr was more valuable and imapctful. Even then gretsky's still probably a half-step above the likes of mj or messi due to the fact that he doesn't have modern cases that rival his.

[LakersLegacy]

I enjoy Phil Jackson’s books and thought I would share a few tidbits

MJ and Brady may have more in common than you may realize.

Phil would have basketballs deflated. He did this with the Bulls and even the 2000 Lakers. Similar
to deflate gate.

Phil also got the shredded Lakers game plan that was like confetti and covered in gross chewing tobacco and put it together after a game 1 loss of
The 1991 NBA FINALS. A step below spy gate.

As with many things in the NBA there isn’t as much scandal. Including BAL CO with the Miami Heat team in 2013. The NBA, perhaps wisely doesn’t dig up bodies. Shot to David Stern comments about knowing where the buried body’s are.

[Sark]

I enjoy Phil Jackson’s books and thought I would share a few tidbits

MJ and Brady may have more in common than you may realize.

Phil would have basketballs deflated. He did this with the Bulls and even the 2000 Lakers. Similar
to deflate gate.

Well in the NBA both teams use the same basketball, so whatever advantage or disadvantage there is to deflating the ball, is shared equally by both teams.

In the NFL, each QB uses his own set of footballs. The ball that Tom Brady uses, is never touched by the opposing QB.