If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 30?

[Mirotic12]

Brady doesn't need a 7th to surpass Jordan as the greatest winner of last 30 years....he already passed Jordan in that department.

[SeniorWalker]

Brady has a good argument if only because how much more difficult is to maintain consistency in a game with much more natural parity.

But I do not believe he is the actual Jordan-like figure of his sport, who was inarguably the greatest for a decade or era. There are a few guys who were arguably better QBs at the same time he played and Brady did not dominate his game to the level MJ did basketball. Brady only played one side of the field, which is not his fault, and was not the major reason his teams won every superbowl. The best and most accurate analogy for the NBA and Brady, is Duncan and Popovoch. I have thought for a very long time that Brady and belichick are the NFL version of that duo.
With MJ, he was always the best by far and the primary driver in all of his teams title runs. Also MJ is really the clear #1 of the NBA in regards to his peak/prime/accomplishments package. In the modern era of basketball (1980-onwards) no one can touch his overall resume and impact. Longevity is the thing that makes it closer for guys like LeBron and Kareem.

[Black Mage]

Brady is the GOAT QB for the "Modern" NFL. He'd be a totally different QB if put back in the era of Montana, Marino, Elway.

1. DB's were allowed to jam and grab WR's at the line which would neutralize the short/quick passing game. The grabbing would also prohibit the barely legal pick routes that the Patriots rely on so much to get quick passes out.
2. WR's were fair game to get blown up going over the middle which would alter the routes that could be run.
3. QB's could be hit below and in the head and had no real protections. Brady has traditionally fallen apart when he's hit/pressured.
4. The violence of the game against QB's would leave Brady, who is a wimp about getting hit, a crumpled mess. LT alone likely would have ended his career early.

On the flip side, if you took Elway, Montana, Young, Marino (especially Marino) and plug them into the cheese rules and QB paradise of today they would be frightening to see and I doubt any of them lose 3 times in the Super Bowl and certainly don't lose to a backup Nick Foles.

Let's also not forget that Brady has played in one of the most embarrassing divisions in the game. It helps a lot when you get 6 games every year against Jets/Bills/Dolphins. That's the reason why the Patriots always avoid having the hardest schedule in the league despite the fact that should have one the way schedules are structured to be tougher based on the prior year's record.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Stating the obvious, but I don't believe the bulls had to deal with a particularly difficult schediule as a results of being a good basketball team at all.

[Black Mage]

Stating the obvious, but I don't believe the bulls had to deal with a particularly difficult schediule as a results of being a good basketball team at all.

Um, in basketball you HAVE to play every team twice. No such thing exists in the NFL. When over 20% of your games are against creampuffs simply b/c of the division it makes a HUGE difference.

[SkyHookFTW]

Lol how is this a question. Jordan doesn't have a clearly better case than kaj, russell, or lbj. Brady literally has the best longetivty, the most winning, and the highest peak.

Brady>>>>>>>jordan and honestly might have a case vs gretsky when we consider orr.

Like seriously, make a case against brady for goat, try to. He's the best/arguably the best at everything.

Jerry Rice is still the GOAT NFL player. Relative to position, he is untouchable. I could make a case for Joe Montana over Brady if I really wanted to argue the point right now. Would love to see Marino and Elway with today's rules.

Having said that, Brady>>>>Jordan, simply because in the NFL you are not allowed to have a bad game...one and done is a lot of pressure that Jordan never had to face.

[SkyHookFTW]

Stating the obvious, but I don't believe the bulls had to deal with a particularly difficult schediule as a results of being a good basketball team at all.

Um, in basketball you HAVE to play every team twice. No such thing exists in the NFL. When over 20% of your games are against creampuffs simply b/c of the division it makes a HUGE difference.

Brady win % against the AFC East: 79%
Brady win % against the rest of the NFL: 79%

He beats everyone equally.

[SkyHookFTW]

Brady is the GOAT QB for the "Modern" NFL. He'd be a totally different QB if put back in the era of Montana, Marino, Elway.

1. DB's were allowed to jam and grab WR's at the line which would neutralize the short/quick passing game. The grabbing would also prohibit the barely legal pick routes that the Patriots rely on so much to get quick passes out.
2. WR's were fair game to get blown up going over the middle which would alter the routes that could be run.
3. QB's could be hit below and in the head and had no real protections. Brady has traditionally fallen apart when he's hit/pressured.
4. The violence of the game against QB's would leave Brady, who is a wimp about getting hit, a crumpled mess. LT alone likely would have ended his career early.

On the flip side, if you took Elway, Montana, Young, Marino (especially Marino) and plug them into the cheese rules and QB paradise of today they would be frightening to see and I doubt any of them lose 3 times in the Super Bowl and certainly don't lose to a backup Nick Foles.

Let's also not forget that Brady has played in one of the most embarrassing divisions in the game. It helps a lot when you get 6 games every year against Jets/Bills/Dolphins. That's the reason why the Patriots always avoid having the hardest schedule in the league despite the fact that should have one the way schedules are structured to be tougher based on the prior year's record.

See above post about winning percentage.

[Black Mage]

Brady is the GOAT QB for the "Modern" NFL. He'd be a totally different QB if put back in the era of Montana, Marino, Elway.

1. DB's were allowed to jam and grab WR's at the line which would neutralize the short/quick passing game. The grabbing would also prohibit the barely legal pick routes that the Patriots rely on so much to get quick passes out.
2. WR's were fair game to get blown up going over the middle which would alter the routes that could be run.
3. QB's could be hit below and in the head and had no real protections. Brady has traditionally fallen apart when he's hit/pressured.
4. The violence of the game against QB's would leave Brady, who is a wimp about getting hit, a crumpled mess. LT alone likely would have ended his career early.

On the flip side, if you took Elway, Montana, Young, Marino (especially Marino) and plug them into the cheese rules and QB paradise of today they would be frightening to see and I doubt any of them lose 3 times in the Super Bowl and certainly don't lose to a backup Nick Foles.

Let's also not forget that Brady has played in one of the most embarrassing divisions in the game. It helps a lot when you get 6 games every year against Jets/Bills/Dolphins. That's the reason why the Patriots always avoid having the hardest schedule in the league despite the fact that should have one the way schedules are structured to be tougher based on the prior year's record.

See above post about winning percentage.

You miss the point. It's not just that he beats them, ii is that the Patriots almost never have any competition for the division meaning they almost always have a cakewalk to winning the division and avoiding the wildcard round. That makes a huge difference always getting that extra week off.

Look back at 2012 - the 49ers and Seahawks duked it out at 11-4-1 and 11-5, meanwhile Patriots got "challenged" by a 7-9 DOlphins game.

[Lexluthor]

Jordan never lost in the finals . Brady got outplayed by Nick Foles in the Superbowl . The Bulls won 72 games and won the NBA championship the same year . The 2007 Patriots wet the bed when it really counted . Michael Jordan is my generation version of Babe Ruth . Brady is just the greatest qb in the NFL of all time. But he will never reach Jordan's Level

[Effigy]

Yeah the reprehensible putridness of the rest of the AFC East for 20 years is the most embarrassing thing in Sports. It’s incredible. It’s like getting to play in a division with only the Hornets, Knicks and Kings for the last 16 years.

[aura]

Enh, this is like asking who's a better artist, Leonardo Da Vinci or Shakespeare. You can't compare between two dramatically different arts. Whatever methodology anyone picks for ranking across sports, someone will say they don't like so and so factors, and wants to replace them with so and so factors. There's no reference by which we can assess who's factors for ranking players across sports is the absolute correct one. No such thing exists.

You can talk about things like popularity, impact on sport, global outreach, who made more money. But who's a better player? MJ or Brady? I don't know how to resolve that and make most people happy.

I think comparing across NBA eras is crazy enough, comparing NBA greats to NFL greats is just a mindless conversation.

[millerboyd123]

I hate the Pats. TB is a BEAST. he IS the "Patriot Way".

[Mauro Pedrosa]

yes

[eagereyez]

The SB against the Seahawks highlights the flaw in comparing Brady with MJ. The Pats won the game at the very last minute.. while Brady was sitting on the bench watching the game with all the other fans. This is why comparing football and basketball is just dumb. MJ had a far greater impact on his team's success than Brady had for his.

You can argue that but Brady still had to put them in a position to win and completed a comeback against the Legion of Boom on the biggest stage possible.

I think you could argue this the other way and say that if his defense hadn't let him down against Philly he'd have 7 rings already.

Not only that but Brady broke NFL records throwing for over 400 yards and 4 touchdowns against the legion of boom, one of the greatest defenses in NFL history that had decimated Manning and the Bronco's in the Super Bowl the year prior.

Brady's performance against the Seahawks is one of the greatest games in QB history.

The LOB was decimated by injuries in that SB. Sherman was playing with one arm. ET3 dislocated his shoulder in the NFC championship game. Lane broke his arm at the end of the 1st quarter. Chancellor was the most healthy and he was playing through a bone bruise.

Nothing to take away from NE - they can only beat the team that is put in front of them. But I would not compare that version of the LOB to the one that played against Denver.

[SkyHookFTW]

Brady is the GOAT QB for the "Modern" NFL. He'd be a totally different QB if put back in the era of Montana, Marino, Elway.

1. DB's were allowed to jam and grab WR's at the line which would neutralize the short/quick passing game. The grabbing would also prohibit the barely legal pick routes that the Patriots rely on so much to get quick passes out.
2. WR's were fair game to get blown up going over the middle which would alter the routes that could be run.
3. QB's could be hit below and in the head and had no real protections. Brady has traditionally fallen apart when he's hit/pressured.
4. The violence of the game against QB's would leave Brady, who is a wimp about getting hit, a crumpled mess. LT alone likely would have ended his career early.

On the flip side, if you took Elway, Montana, Young, Marino (especially Marino) and plug them into the cheese rules and QB paradise of today they would be frightening to see and I doubt any of them lose 3 times in the Super Bowl and certainly don't lose to a backup Nick Foles.

Let's also not forget that Brady has played in one of the most embarrassing divisions in the game. It helps a lot when you get 6 games every year against Jets/Bills/Dolphins. That's the reason why the Patriots always avoid having the hardest schedule in the league despite the fact that should have one the way schedules are structured to be tougher based on the prior year's record.

See above post about winning percentage.

You miss the point. It's not just that he beats them, ii is that the Patriots almost never have any competition for the division meaning they almost always have a cakewalk to winning the division and avoiding the wildcard round. That makes a huge difference always getting that extra week off.

Look back at 2012 - the 49ers and Seahawks duked it out at 11-4-1 and 11-5, meanwhile Patriots got "challenged" by a 7-9 DOlphins game.

I think you miss a point. It doesn’t matter if his division isn’t good, as he beats everyone by the same percentage. He feasts on everyone equally.

[freethedevil]

Jordan never lost in the finals

Jordan making less finals than brady isn't a positive fam

[freethedevil]

I enjoy Phil Jackson’s books and thought I would share a few tidbits

MJ and Brady may have more in common than you may realize.

Phil would have basketballs deflated. He did this with the Bulls and even the 2000 Lakers. Similar
to deflate gate.

Well in the NBA both teams use the same basketball, so whatever advantage or disadvantage there is to deflating the ball, is shared equally by both teams.

In the NFL, each QB uses his own set of footballs. The ball that Tom Brady uses, is never touched by the opposing QB.

Deflate gate is the nfl version of flat earthing

[freethedevil]

Yeah the reprehensible putridness of the rest of the AFC East for 20 years is the most embarrassing thing in Sports. It’s incredible. It’s like getting to play in a division with only the Hornets, Knicks and Kings for the last 16 years.

Insane to actually use the "weak competition" argument when citing a player who played during expansion. Who was jordan's best compeition during his first three peat? The same players he beat in his second three peat. Brady has taken the lunch of up and comers in their prime, Jordan took the lunch of the older versions of the players he'd already taken lunch from.

[Black Mage]

See above post about winning percentage.

You miss the point. It's not just that he beats them, ii is that the Patriots almost never have any competition for the division meaning they almost always have a cakewalk to winning the division and avoiding the wildcard round. That makes a huge difference always getting that extra week off.

Look back at 2012 - the 49ers and Seahawks duked it out at 11-4-1 and 11-5, meanwhile Patriots got "challenged" by a 7-9 DOlphins game.

I think you miss a point. It doesn’t matter if his division isn’t good, as he beats everyone by the same percentage. He feasts on everyone equally.

Try thinking second level. If the Patriots were actually challenged routinely within their division such as the above Seahawks/Niners scenario the Patriots might actually have to play wild card games which gives them another chance of losing a best of 1 game AND doesn't give their guys the rest they always get to enjoy.