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SI's Top 100 Players

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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#41 » by ChimRichalds » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:26 pm

It's really remarkable that people still don't understand just how good Kyle Lowry actually is.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#42 » by Raps in 4 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:34 pm

ChimRichalds wrote:It's really remarkable that people still don't understand just how good Kyle Lowry actually is.


Kyle Lowry was a phenomenal player in his prime. But Kyle Lowry is now 33 years old. He's lost several steps and his shooting has declined substantially.

He's still a contributor, but he's a shadow of his former self. If you can't see that, you need to remove those homer glasses.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#43 » by ChimRichalds » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:44 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
ChimRichalds wrote:It's really remarkable that people still don't understand just how good Kyle Lowry actually is.


Kyle Lowry was a phenomenal player in his prime. But Kyle Lowry is now 33 years old. He's lost several steps and his shooting has declined substantially.

He's still a contributor, but he's a shadow of his former self. If you can't see that, you need to remove those homer glasses.


Lowry led all guards last year with the most charges taken, and had a career best 8.7 assists per game, which, league wide, was only second to Russell Westbrook, whose assists are more hollow than your bad arguments. Not only do I disagree that he's declined substantially, but his defense is better than it's ever been and I think last year may have been his best career year. If you can't see that, then I think you need to stop basing your opinions on America sports media talking heads and NBA2k ratings.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#44 » by Raps in 4 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:57 pm

ChimRichalds wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
ChimRichalds wrote:It's really remarkable that people still don't understand just how good Kyle Lowry actually is.


Kyle Lowry was a phenomenal player in his prime. But Kyle Lowry is now 33 years old. He's lost several steps and his shooting has declined substantially.

He's still a contributor, but he's a shadow of his former self. If you can't see that, you need to remove those homer glasses.


Lowry led all guards last year with the most charges taken, and had a career best 8.7 assists per game, which, league wide, was only second to Russell Westbrook, whose assists are more hollow than your bad arguments. Not only do I disagree that he's declined substantially, but his defense is better than it's ever been and I think last year may have been his best career year. If you can't see that, then I think you need to stop basing your opinions on America sports media talking heads and NBA2k ratings.


Basketball is played on both sides of the court. His drop off in shooting efficiency and inability to get to the rim don't get replaced by a few extra assists.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#45 » by ChimRichalds » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:07 pm

Raps in 4 wrote:
ChimRichalds wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
Kyle Lowry was a phenomenal player in his prime. But Kyle Lowry is now 33 years old. He's lost several steps and his shooting has declined substantially.

He's still a contributor, but he's a shadow of his former self. If you can't see that, you need to remove those homer glasses.


Lowry led all guards last year with the most charges taken, and had a career best 8.7 assists per game, which, league wide, was only second to Russell Westbrook, whose assists are more hollow than your bad arguments. Not only do I disagree that he's declined substantially, but his defense is better than it's ever been and I think last year may have been his best career year. If you can't see that, then I think you need to stop basing your opinions on America sports media talking heads and NBA2k ratings.


Basketball is played on both sides of the court. His drop off in shooting efficiency and inability to get to the rim don't get replaced by a few extra assists.


Lowry's eFG% was higher than his career average last year, so could you please cease with this imaginary "drop off in shooting efficiency" thing
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#46 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:12 pm

ChimRichalds wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
ChimRichalds wrote:
Lowry led all guards last year with the most charges taken, and had a career best 8.7 assists per game, which, league wide, was only second to Russell Westbrook, whose assists are more hollow than your bad arguments. Not only do I disagree that he's declined substantially, but his defense is better than it's ever been and I think last year may have been his best career year. If you can't see that, then I think you need to stop basing your opinions on America sports media talking heads and NBA2k ratings.


Basketball is played on both sides of the court. His drop off in shooting efficiency and inability to get to the rim don't get replaced by a few extra assists.


Lowry's eFG% was higher than his career average last year, so could you please cease with this imaginary "drop off in shooting efficiency" thing


lower than this previous 2 years. lower FG%, lower ppg, FT rate coming down. TS% down vs the last 3 years.

he's on the downside of his career. there's no doubt about it.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#47 » by tor1234567 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:20 pm

traps#10 wrote:It’s hard to imagine that if we didn’t trade away DeRozan that Siakam would develop this way and now considered a better player than DD. Goes to show that If you build around the wrong player, you might hinder other players’ growth and suppress them.


Could you imagine if San Antonio had asked for Siakam in that trade?

A lot of people here were chirping about how it would have been amazing if we could have somehow kept DeRozan for a BIG THREE of Kawhi, Lowry and DeRozan.

There's no way we win a title with DeRozan instead of Siakam, and we'd look like complete idiots for trading away our most valuable player.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#48 » by HeadtopChunes » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:32 pm

After watching the playoffs I just dont see why Simmons and Middleton should be so high.

Pascal was clearly better than Simmons.

Middleton looked more like a role player than an all star
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#49 » by Raps in 4 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:17 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:After watching the playoffs I just dont see why Simmons and Middleton should be so high.

Pascal was clearly better than Simmons.

Middleton looked more like a role player than an all star


Simmons is the most overrated player in the league.

"But he'd be amazing if he learned to shoot!"

Great, now let's see him learn to shoot. He has arguably the worst shooting form of any player in the league. He's shooting with the wrong hand for ****'s sake.

Siakam was unquestionably better than both Simmons and Middleton last season.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#50 » by TheAlchemist » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:29 pm

I think at this point Sports Illustrated is a F*CKING JOKE.

How do you put Lamarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Khris Middleton, and Ben freakin Simmons above Pascal?

Fine, you can make an argument about Blake Griffin to some extent, but damnit, can't believe these old dinosaurs are all ahead of Pascal?

Al Horford?!

What in the actual F****?

They're done to be honest, I'm not reading their **** again.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#51 » by Psubs » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:39 pm

siakamthemvp wrote:Top 10 is all that's left:

So I guess it will include (in no particular order) LBJ, Curry, Giannis, Kawhi, Harden, Lillard, Paul George, Anthony Davis, Jokic, Embiid.

I guess KD not included due to injury, Klay was dropped a lot but he is expected to return. Unless one of the players I wrote was already in the list and I missed it


I would put Jokic ahead of Harden. 8-)
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#52 » by gpoon » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:00 pm

RonaldArtest wrote:
Courtside wrote:
gpoon wrote:
Derozan was a team player and i would say his passing ability is better than Kawhi if not on par. Siakam was a really raw player coming in he needed the first couple years to get going, he deserves all credit for his growth and to say it was Derozan holding him back is just wrong.


That's not what he said.

To me it was inferred that Pascal would not have developed how he did last season had Demar still been here, meaning DD and his style of play would have squashed Pascal’s growth and he wouldn’t be the player he is today. So Demar would in theory be holding Siakam back. Which to me is hogwash. The team replaced Demar with a player who had a higher usage rate than all but one season Derozan had in Toronto, and he’s a less skilled playmaker. Siakam’s growth can be looked no further than his internal desire to improve, the fact that he started playing ball so late in life, and a player coming into their 3rd season you usually find out what they’re all about, they know the league a bit more. Also replacing Casey with a more competent coach didn’t hurt either.


My thoughts exactly
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#53 » by Danny1616 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:20 pm

ChimRichalds wrote:It's really remarkable that people still don't understand just how good Kyle Lowry actually is.


It's an actual shame they had Mike Conley, Middleton, Jrue Holiday, Beal, Kemba, Horford and Kyrie above Lowry.

The game isn't simply about scoring...they can't just ignore defense, taking charges, being a floor general, making high IQ decisions, low turnover rate.

Beal, Kemba, Conley and Holiday couldn't even lead their teams to 40 wins.

Lowry's impact outweighs whatever scoring advantage those guys have.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#54 » by TheAlchemist » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:13 pm

Danny1616 wrote:
ChimRichalds wrote:It's really remarkable that people still don't understand just how good Kyle Lowry actually is.


It's an actual shame they had Mike Conley, Middleton, Jrue Holiday, Beal, Kemba, Horford and Kyrie above Lowry.

The game isn't simply about scoring...they can't just ignore defense, taking charges, being a floor general, making high IQ decisions, low turnover rate.

Beal, Kemba, Conley and Holiday couldn't even lead their teams to 40 wins.

Lowry's impact outweighs whatever scoring advantage those guys have.



Lowry should be the leader of the fringe all-star point guards. Seeing how he just had a hell of a finals series performance, and balled the hell out.

In my opinion he is neck and neck with Jrue, but Jrue might be better only cause of age and defense/size.

Still, Lowry has done a lot. I'd rate it ;

Chris Paul
Lowry or Kemba
Jrue or D'angelo Russell
Conley (who hasnt won anything and is around the same age as Lowry)

I'm looking at winning and impact. If you account for potential and age, obviously the older stars would be lower.

Still, Lowry's a bit lower then expected (24 or so should be right) and Siakim should be top 20. He won the MIP.

Also THERE IS NO WAY Kawhi should be second.

He just helped us slap the **** out of Giannis. Like literally, we beat the hell out of him. Even taking Kawhis health into consideration, hes still better then Giannis as his skillset and clutch factor is retardedly amazing.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#55 » by mdenny » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:36 am

gpoon wrote:
traps#10 wrote:It’s hard to imagine that if we didn’t trade away DeRozan that Siakam would develop this way and now considered a better player than DD. Goes to show that If you build around the wrong player, you might hinder other players’ growth and suppress them.


Derozan was a team player and i would say his passing ability is better than Kawhi if not on par. Siakam was a really raw player coming in he needed the first couple years to get going, he deserves all credit for his growth and to say it was Derozan holding him back is just wrong.



I'll grant that Derozan was a team 'guy'.....but there's no way he's a 'team player'. He does not make his teammates better. He cannot pass and he cannot play team defense. Which are basically the two most crucial 'team player' traits.

He's nice and supportive to teammates though. For sure in that sense.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#56 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:36 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:After watching the playoffs I just dont see why Simmons and Middleton should be so high.

Pascal was clearly better than Simmons.

Middleton looked more like a role player than an all star


its speculation for next year, in the regular season. teams won't play Simmons like how the Raptors played Simmons. there won't be forcing of him trying to pass the ball out and crowd him in the paint. same with Giannis.

playoffs doesn't mean **** when it comes to the regular season rankings.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#57 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:41 am

TheAlchemist wrote:I think at this point Sports Illustrated is a F*CKING JOKE.

How do you put Lamarcus Aldridge, Blake Griffin, Khris Middleton, and Ben freakin Simmons above Pascal?

Fine, you can make an argument about Blake Griffin to some extent, but damnit, can't believe these old dinosaurs are all ahead of Pascal?

Al Horford?!

What in the actual F****?

They're done to be honest, I'm not reading their **** again.


Lamarcus Aldridge put up 21-9 last year. he's been the rock of consistency every year.
Blake Griffin is definitely better than Siakam overall.
Ben Simmons averaged 17-9-8.

are Raptors fans just blind and homerific? :lol: Pascal had a hot playoff run. does not mean he is better than any of them nor guarantee he will put up better overall stats than those guys.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#58 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:46 am

Raps in 4 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:After watching the playoffs I just dont see why Simmons and Middleton should be so high.

Pascal was clearly better than Simmons.

Middleton looked more like a role player than an all star


Simmons is the most overrated player in the league.

"But he'd be amazing if he learned to shoot!"

Great, now let's see him learn to shoot. He has arguably the worst shooting form of any player in the league. He's shooting with the wrong hand for ****'s sake.

Siakam was unquestionably better than both Simmons and Middleton last season.


I would say he wasn't. playoffs he was.

i'd take Simmons 17-9-8 over Siakam's 17-7-3 any day if we just talking raw counting stats as most people will. and Simmons plays defense as well. (don't tell me he doesn't) . Simmons is a tremendous passer for a guy his size. much better passer and playmaker than Siakam.

they are ranked pretty closely anyways. its not a travesty.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#59 » by Raps in 4 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:34 am

LBJKB24MJ23 wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:After watching the playoffs I just dont see why Simmons and Middleton should be so high.

Pascal was clearly better than Simmons.

Middleton looked more like a role player than an all star


Simmons is the most overrated player in the league.

"But he'd be amazing if he learned to shoot!"

Great, now let's see him learn to shoot. He has arguably the worst shooting form of any player in the league. He's shooting with the wrong hand for ****'s sake.

Siakam was unquestionably better than both Simmons and Middleton last season.


I would say he wasn't. playoffs he was.

i'd take Simmons 17-9-8 over Siakam's 17-7-3 any day if we just talking raw counting stats as most people will. and Simmons plays defense as well. (don't tell me he doesn't) . Simmons is a tremendous passer for a guy his size. much better passer and playmaker than Siakam.

they are ranked pretty closely anyways. its not a travesty.


If all you're looking at are counting stats, then sure.

But if you're trying to be thorough, you'd see that Siakam scored his 17 points on 63% TS while Simmons scored his on 58% TS. Simmons scores literally all of his points in the paint. He shot 0% from 3, 11% on long twos, 26% in the mid-range, and 60% from the line.

Speaking of defence, Siakam also had a higher DRPM (2.16 vs. 1.74).

The only thing Simmons does better is pass, but that's not enough to bring his overall production to Siakam's level. He also has the hype of being a former first overall pick.
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Re: SI's Top 100 Players 

Post#60 » by OAKLEY_2 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:24 am

siakamthemvp wrote:Former Raptors

99 - Terrence Ross
89 - Danny Green
88 - Jonas Valanciunas
74 - PJ Tucker
53 - Lou Williams
31 - Demar Derozan
2 - Kawhi Leonard


Canadians
100 - Andrew Wiggins
38 - Jamal Murray

Current Raptors
80 - Serge Ibaka
42 - Marc Gasol
28 - Kyle Lowry
24 - Pascal Siakam


They should stick to swimsuits and college football. Lou Williams 53 and Ibaka 80. HolyF!

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