Frank Thread 3: FIBA Frank Aftermath

[3toheadmelo]

So you put the worst guard shooter in the starting backcourt in with the worst wing shooter? To do what? Get Ntilikina's vaunted defense into the rotation? His defensive stats have not been good. It just hasn't been near as bad as his offensive metrics and his defense hasn't sucked as much as his teammates. Unlike the Knicks other guards, he's the only offensive liability. For a team that is geared towards offense (it is what it is) it doens't make sense to try to win by adding a slight upgrade on defense at the cost of a significant downgrade on offense. It only makes sense if Ntilikina actually comes out and plays offense like he actually isn't afraid of it. Then absolutely. But thus far Ntilinkina has been one of the worst offensive players in the league. As of right now, does not make sense for that backcourt.

I think in time, RJ will be the primary ball handler. For some reason (I admit not a logical one) I can't see him and DSJ on the floor at the same time. I'm probably wrong but, something about it bothers me.

One of them has to shoot the ball effectively or it’s an L

PAYTON actually is our best shooter beyond the arc at point guard 31% which is still trash.

Smiff shot 32% from 3 for the year

Still trash

[Fat]

I think in time, RJ will be the primary ball handler. For some reason (I admit not a logical one) I can't see him and DSJ on the floor at the same time. I'm probably wrong but, something about it bothers me.

One of them has to shoot the ball effectively or it’s an L

PAYTON actually is our best shooter beyond the arc at point guard 31% which is still trash.

Dennis shoots the 3 better than Payton. Neither are very good though.

Payton was at 31% from 3 last year even going through the injuries.

Dennis shot 29% I’m not sure what he shot on the Mavs but that’s what he looked like on the Knicks.

[Fat]

I think in time, RJ will be the primary ball handler. For some reason (I admit not a logical one) I can't see him and DSJ on the floor at the same time. I'm probably wrong but, something about it bothers me.

One of them has to shoot the ball effectively or it’s an L

PAYTON actually is our best shooter beyond the arc at point guard 31% which is still trash.

Smiff shot 32% from 3 for the year

Still trash

Yeah I’m just looking at his Knicks stats since this is going to be his actual team going forward but regardless none of these fools can shoot. Their all capable of making a play for somebody though so whoever proves they can actually hit a jumper probably will be the one getting the most burn this season because this team Already suffers from shooting at guard which is one of the most important positions u actually need shooting from.

[Fat Kat]

One of them has to shoot the ball effectively or it’s an L

PAYTON actually is our best shooter beyond the arc at point guard 31% which is still trash.

Dennis shoots the 3 better than Payton. Neither are very good though.

Payton was at 31% from 3 last year even going through the injuries.

Dennis shot 29% I’m not sure what he shot on the Mavs but that’s what he looked like on the Knicks.

What’s wrong with you.

It’s not an opinion, or debate. It’s numbers. Dennis shot better than Payton.

Let’s get back to the Frank talk

[3toheadmelo]

One of them has to shoot the ball effectively or it’s an L

PAYTON actually is our best shooter beyond the arc at point guard 31% which is still trash.

Smiff shot 32% from 3 for the year

Still trash

Yeah I’m just looking at his Knicks stats since this is going to be his actual team going forward but regardless none of these fools can shoot. Their all capable of making a play for somebody though so whoever proves they can actually hit a jumper probably will be the one getting the most burn this season because this team Already suffers from shooting at guard which is one of the most important positions u actually need shooting from.

I think it’s fair that we also look at his stats from Dallas because it’s a bigger sample size and he shot 34% from 3. He has the most potential to being the best shooter out of all the point guards on this roster. Hopefully he improves more

[moocow007]

The point is when you shoot worse than Smith Jr or Payton, you know you got a problem and need to improve. Hopefully Frank has. Hopefully he'll come into camp with a killer instinct and attack. I'd rather he chuck to be honest than go back to what he has been doing. He'd be better off saying "**** that ****, I'ma show them I can get my own"...then attack the opposing mofo. Maybe they should room him with Trier. Trier is just so natural in his ability to attack offensively (whether it's driving or pulling up for a shot). Instinctive aggressiveness. Frank needs that.

[god shammgod]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

That works but who’s going to defend the opposing teams point guard?

Both guys gonna get cooked.

dennis & payton are getting cooked too so give me the guy who is much better at shooting the ball. you can't fix both the defense and offense on this team, it's just not possible. you got too many guys who aint great at one or the other or both.

[moocow007]

Watch on YouTube

Coach Nick more bullish on FIBA Frank than I was (apparently Alan Hahn too as he put Frank in his ideal starting backcourt during the KFTV interview). I just wanna see Frank get a shot to show his growth and see it sticks.

He needs to take the shot (figuratively and literally). He's been given shots before and he's gone into "good Frank" mode. We need him to go "bad Frank". Someone photoshop him in a black uniform with a scar, an evil looking goatee and an eye patch (or maybe a set of small red horns)!!! Like that episode of the original Star Trek with the evil tyrannical Spock.

[3toheadmelo]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

That works but who’s going to defend the opposing teams point guard?

Both guys gonna get cooked.

dennis & payton are getting cooked too so give me the guy who is much better at shooting the ball. you can't fix both the defense and offense on this team, it's just not possible. you got too many guys who aint great at one or the other or both.

The Knicks defensive rating improved by 8.4 points with DSJ on the floor though

[Fat]

Dennis shoots the 3 better than Payton. Neither are very good though.

Payton was at 31% from 3 last year even going through the injuries.

Dennis shot 29% I’m not sure what he shot on the Mavs but that’s what he looked like on the Knicks.

What’s wrong with you.

It’s not an opinion, or debate. It’s numbers. Dennis shot better than Payton.

Let’s get back to the Frank talk

1 percent better

ill tell you why RJ/Ntilkina still works even if neither are really shooters. Frank is smart and can facilitate he's good at reading the game. RJ played next to TJ in college who was a trash 3 pont shooter too but he was the primary facilitator and structured the offense putting guys in position to thrive at what they like to do.

Now you take at look at the knicks id imagine Randle and RJ both will get the starting jobs. These guys are "put me in a position i feel comfortable scoring type of players" their not the ("well ok ill just sit behind this 3 point line and wait for you to drive and ill cash out these 3 pointers type of players") We dont need Dennis being a aggressive scorer or a drive and kick guy he can do those things still but what we need from him most with this team is to shoot the ball well and get guys involved we need him to get his chris paul on. Can he do that is TBD

Dennis/RJ backcourt might look good on paper, ntilkina/RJ could easily be the better pairing. Ntilkina might overall be the best fit for the team in general at point guard the way this team is built. that doesnt mean he is the better talent i just feel the way he plays would be a better mesh with the team if that makes sense.

i hope im wrong though because we gave up KP for dennis i want him to be the guy that is leading this team

[j4remi]

Watch on YouTube

Coach Nick more bullish on FIBA Frank than I was (apparently Alan Hahn too as he put Frank in his ideal starting backcourt during the KFTV interview). I just wanna see Frank get a shot to show his growth and see it sticks.

He needs to take the shot (figuratively and literally). He's been given shots before and he's gone into "good Frank" mode. We need him to go "bad Frank". Someone photoshop him in a black uniform with a scar, an evil looking goatee and an eye patch (or maybe a set of small red horns)!!! Like that episode of the original Star Trek with the evil tyrannical Spock.

Put him in waluigi gear. It's like when Melo would go shot happy and we'd call him Welo; except we want to see it happen.

[GONYK]

Watch on YouTube

Coach Nick more bullish on FIBA Frank than I was (apparently Alan Hahn too as he put Frank in his ideal starting backcourt during the KFTV interview). I just wanna see Frank get a shot to show his growth and see it sticks.

He needs to take the shot (figuratively and literally). He's been given shots before and he's gone into "good Frank" mode. We need him to go "bad Frank". Someone photoshop him in a black uniform with a scar, an evil looking goatee and an eye patch (or maybe a set of small red horns)!!! Like that episode of the original Star Trek with the evil tyrannical Spock.

Put him in waluigi gear. It's like when Melo would go shot happy and we'd call him Welo; except we want to see it happen.

Frank needs to become Wank?

[HarthorneWingo]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

Ellington at SG.

And you will like it.

[mpharris36]

Another night of shamm pushing the trier/RJ backcourt smh....

[cgmw]

I still think Frank’s best shot at PT is an early-season showcase to drive up trade value.

Especially if Porzingis balls out, management will be under immense pressure to force-feed DSJr.

Personally I just see too much ego involved from Fiz (“we gon get u right” Mudiay) and Perry/Mills, who got DSJ after Phil passed on him (in favor of Frank).

FIBA or no, any PT frank gets for the remainder of his time in NY will be prelude to a trade. I just think Perry wants him out and Fiz has no ability/desire to coach a Euro systems guy.

[god shammgod]

Another night of shamm pushing the trier/RJ backcourt smh....

well, while everyone fights between them, i'm not a big fan of dennis or frank. trier at least has shown that he has an actual nba skill-set that's useful. i can't really say that about those other two. and it's also about who fits with rj. rj has to start because him being successful is the most important goal for this franchise going forward. more than winning games or making the playoffs, the main goal for this year should be making sure he's catered to and developed. he's the highest draft pick in 30 something years. if he fails it's real bad for everyone involved. i would rather the knicks win 17 games and he's in the rookie of the year conversation than them make the playoffs and he has a lackluster year. they're selling the knicks being good as important to attract free agents but him being good is really more important.

[HarthorneWingo]

Another night of shamm pushing the trier/RJ backcourt smh....

well, while everyone fights between them, i'm not a big fan of dennis or frank. trier at least has shown that he has an actual nba skill-set that's useful. i can't really say that about those other two. and it's also about who fits with rj. rj has to start because him being successful is the most important goal for this franchise going forward. more than winning games or making the playoffs, the main goal for this year should be making sure he's catered to and developed. he's the highest draft pick in 30 something years. if he fails it's real bad for everyone involved. i would rather the knicks win 17 games and he's in the rookie of the year conversation than them make the playoffs and he has a lackluster year. they're selling the knicks being good as important to attract free agents but him being good is really more important.

Frank doesn't have "an actual nba skill-set that's useful"?

C'mon now. I know GONYK has posted the team's defense metrics when Frank is on the court and other related stats. We're just waiting for the offense to catch up to it. As a matter of fact, Frank's defensive skill set is off the charts.

[aq_ua]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

Ellington at SG.

And you will like it.

It might be in jest but not out of the realm of possibility. If you’re starting RJ at the three, you need someone out there that can stretch the floor. Otherwise it’s Knox at the four and Randle at the five which would get us killed up front.

[HarthorneWingo]

nobody can shoot though. a backcourt where nobody can shoot in 2019 ?

that's why i'm team rj & trier. lol. it's not perfect but it's the best we got.

Ellington at SG.

And you will like it.

It might be in jest but not out of the realm of possibility. If you’re starting RJ at the three, you need someone out there that can stretch the floor. Otherwise it’s Knox at the four and Randle at the five which would get us killed up front.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Fizdale went with an all-veteran startinglineup except for Mitch at center and even he can get a quick hook for Gibson or Portis if he gets into early foul trouble. The reason being is that it's the safest and quickest way to get the most wins. Also, Randle and Payton already has some ESP from being teammates in NOLA.

Fuzdale can still play the kids as a unit coming off the bench against the opposing team's second unit, which has obvious advantages. The kids can (1) develop chemistry between team, and (2) confidence against the opponents second unit. Also, I think that would be really exciting for the fans to see these young bucks coming off the bench with all this energy.

What do you think about that?

[aq_ua]

Ellington at SG.

And you will like it.

It might be in jest but not out of the realm of possibility. If you’re starting RJ at the three, you need someone out there that can stretch the floor. Otherwise it’s Knox at the four and Randle at the five which would get us killed up front.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Fizdale went with an all-veteran startinglineup except for Mitch at center and even he can get a quick hook for Gibson or Portis if he gets into early foul trouble. The reason being is that it's the safest and quickest way to get the most wins. Also, Randle and Payton already has some ESP from being teammates in NOLA.

Fuzdale can still play the kids as a unit coming off the bench against the opposing team's second unit, which has obvious advantages. The kids can (1) develop chemistry between team, and (2) confidence against the opponents second unit. Also, I think that would be really exciting for the fans to see these young bucks coming off the bench with all this energy.

What do you think about that?

I agree that it is entirely possible that Fizdale goes with an all-veteran lineup and pitch it as "teaching the young ones how to win". It would also be consistent with the "earning a spot" mantra. There is just no way the young ones can beat out Randle, Morris and possibly Portis in the pure sense of production, at least to begin the season. The only question would be whether DSJr or Payton wins out, and that could really go either way. Randle would probably stay out there for some time with the second team for continuity and so the second team doesn't get completely crushed. It will also be an indicator as to whether Fiz believes he is under pressure to win now - which I do think he is.