China cancels NBA stuff / Silver issues statement (pg1) /Ongoing discussion...

[basketballRob]

Probably means the salary cap goes down next year.

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[TheNewEra]

How about stfu and work on zero issues except to provide the fans a good product that's free of political BS? I used to be able to enjoy that.

Amen to this. Sports is supposed to be an enjoyable distraction.

So much for that!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Uh, you can easily ignore all this China related news and just watch nba games. I don't understand why you guys feel you are forced to follow this news. If you stay off social media and stay off the internet you'll get exactly the experience you're talking about what sport "used to be", which you are referring to the pre-social media age.

Just sounds to me like you guys are upset about the internet existing and your inability to exert self control in avoiding the internet, than the actual nba product itself.

Still trying to figure out when political and social issues were not talked about in sports and at times during sports?

Did Ali, Kareem, Jackie Robinson, Bill Russell, and etc just not exist ? Social and political issues are usually talked about when players are involved since forever

[GURLAK]

FACTS: China is acting pathetic and embarrassing their reputation thru ridiculous attempts at “saving face”.

China was getting so much respect but they threw it away with their short sightedness.

[Nyphantom]

The NBA and NBA players are going to lose a lot of money from this fiasco.

[Curmudgeon]

The NBA and NBA players are going to lose a lot of money from this fiasco.

So is China.

[Ganji]

Lol even the far left press is eating this up. NBA made a move so bad, that they are getting hammered by left and right, and hell even China still has grudge with them.

NBA's China reaction shows the league is only woke when it doesn't cost money

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/oct/08/nba-china-morey-tweet-houston-rockets-hong-kong

[Jim Naismith]

Amen to this. Sports is supposed to be an enjoyable distraction.

So much for that!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Uh, you can easily ignore all this China related news and just watch nba games. I don't understand why you guys feel you are forced to follow this news. If you stay off social media and stay off the internet you'll get exactly the experience you're talking about what sport "used to be", which you are referring to the pre-social media age.

Just sounds to me like you guys are upset about the internet existing and your inability to exert self control in avoiding the internet, than the actual nba product itself.

Still trying to figure out when political and social issues were not talked about in sports and at times during sports?

Did Ali, Kareem, Jackie Robinson, Bill Russell, and etc just not exist ? Social and political issues are usually talked about when players are involved since forever

Muhammad Ali refused to fight in America's cold war against Asian communism. He would likely not have a quarrel with China.

Muhummad Ali: ‘I Ain’t Got No Quarrel With Them Vietcong’

Muhammad Ali: “no Vietcong ever called me n----r.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/27/opinion/muhammad-ali-vietnam-war.html

[E-Balla]

But like I said this is what all countries do. I posted what the US does already. I'm not seeing China as some special evil for doing what authoritarian regimes would all do when faced with a situation like this. This all sounds like shoddy justification to invade China and I pray to god that's not what it is. At the end of that day I'm about action, what do you want done about the situation because I'll totally admit both sides are bad and the only proper solution to me would be if Hong Kong was introduced back into China proper. It might suck, but it seems more "right" than the alternative.

Are you talking specifically about Western support for HK, or about the HK protestors themselves?

I'm certain that to the HK protestors, their fight for 'democracy' (as I have already explained in a previous post, it is not democracy as most Westerners conceive of it, but a restructuring of the current electoral system to be more fair and less Beijing biased) might implicitly be 'defending western imperialism', but to them that is likely merely a technical point when faced with being subsumed completely by an authoritarian regime that has no qualms about genociding people because they didn't have the good grace to be born Han Chinese.

To the protestors, it's about making sure Hong Kong isn't fully subsumed before 2047 as per the terms China agreed to (that they've been busy violating, and due to the structure of the government, is basically unstoppable).

But if you're suggesting that the protestors demands are illegitimate because they implicitly defend western imperialism, that seems like a problematic and dismissive stance to me.

Also, what is the 'alternative' you refer to?

I'm talking Western support for HK and the alternative to me seems to be an independent (which would undeniably lead to war) which is a big no no. I get the protesters' stance and I always admire people rising up, what I don't get is the end goal. It's almost halfway to 2047, they need to start thinking of how this integration will work because they're lucky the UK even strong armed them into getting that 50 year grace period.

[E-Balla]

Well that was my original point before you took us down this rabbit hole of Imperialism. Morey's just a private American citizen. There is no getting involved. For all we know, he was eating a bowl of after dinner ice cream suffering the net trying to keep up on world affairs and he accidentally hit the like button, then deleted it. He might feel that way, but there's no evidence this was part of some vast government conspiracy paid for by Soros and CNN to overthrow Trump and pin it on the Chinese.

And now a $4,000,000,000 NBA Chinese venture is cancelled (for now, they'll bring it back at some point I assume).

No one thinks this is part of a vast conspiracy to overthrow Trump. It's part of a clearly defined pattern of America and Western Democracies supporting worldwide European imperialism though. Do I think Morey just did it without thinking? Of course. Do I think the cultural support of European imperialism is why he wasn't thinking when he sent that tweet out? Yup.

"No one thinks this is part of a vast conspiracy. Also, this is part of a vast conspiracy"

The USSR installed CPC government trying to put down a protest by the citizens of Hong Kong, a territory the UK handed over peacefully a long time ago, has nothing to do with the West. Russia has more of a hand in the current protests, because if the KMT wasn't overthrown, there wouldn't be any protests. So at least be honest about your conspiracies, this is the Eastern Imperialists (Russias) fault.

Bro you sound crazy and your revisionist history isn't helping to prove whatever point you're attempting to make.

[spikeslovechild]

But like I said this is what all countries do. I posted what the US does already. I'm not seeing China as some special evil for doing what authoritarian regimes would all do when faced with a situation like this. This all sounds like shoddy justification to invade China and I pray to god that's not what it is. At the end of that day I'm about action, what do you want done about the situation because I'll totally admit both sides are bad and the only proper solution to me would be if Hong Kong was introduced back into China proper. It might suck, but it seems more "right" than the alternative.

Are you talking specifically about Western support for HK, or about the HK protestors themselves?

I'm certain that to the HK protestors, their fight for 'democracy' (as I have already explained in a previous post, it is not democracy as most Westerners conceive of it, but a restructuring of the current electoral system to be more fair and less Beijing biased) might implicitly be 'defending western imperialism', but to them that is likely merely a technical point when faced with being subsumed completely by an authoritarian regime that has no qualms about genociding people because they didn't have the good grace to be born Han Chinese.

To the protestors, it's about making sure Hong Kong isn't fully subsumed before 2047 as per the terms China agreed to (that they've been busy violating, and due to the structure of the government, is basically unstoppable).

But if you're suggesting that the protestors demands are illegitimate because they implicitly defend western imperialism, that seems like a problematic and dismissive stance to me.

Also, what is the 'alternative' you refer to?

I'm talking Western support for HK and the alternative to me seems to be an independent (which would undeniably lead to war) which is a big no no. I get the protesters' stance and I always admire people rising up, what I don't get is the end goal. It's almost halfway to 2047, they need to start thinking of how this integration will work because they're lucky the UK even strong armed them into getting that 50 year grace period.

Their goal is a free and independent Hong Kong I don't understand what so difficult to understand about it.

[drekwins]

Eff it... let's look at the facts of why the Chinese Gov't is reacting so strongly to the NBA:

1) Chinese people LOVE the NBA
2) Chinese people idolize the players in the NBA
3) This makes the Gov't uneasy because they feel that their Gov't figures and culture are the only things to be idolized.
4) Chinese Gov't leaders are concerned that the NBA could influence their people to seek additional freedoms and/or protest.
5) In an effort to squash the likelihood of this scenario, China decided to threaten the NBA economically.

The baller move, on behalf of the NBA, would be to release another statement outlining the following:

1) The Chinese Gov't will not censor the NBA or any of its members
2) The NBA supports Hong Kong and all democratic states (and the freedoms that come along with it), and:
3) The NBA hopes that the Chinese Gov't will backtrack on its decision to deprive the people within China of the game that they love

[JeepCSC]

I can almost hear E-balla apologizing for his thoughts on humans being free, wicked Western imperialist.

Huh?

I about choked on the equivalency in your post preceding my own:

“I think Taiwan should be allowed freedom too but I wholly recognize that's me projecting my own Western ideals onto Chinese people.”

Chinese people don’t need freedom because it’s a Western ideal and they were born on the wrong continent? To say otherwise is projecting? It’s demeaning and dehumanizing. But it’s ok because you are being balanced.

[Indomitable]

expecting people not to pretend that the NBA cares about freedom or human rights, and expect people to temper their hypocrisy when the US has also been just as guilty of many, many, many human rights violations themselves.

Maybe Silver and the NBA secretly like establishment China because their "progressive" views actually line up quite well with communism.

It's not like "progressives" are big on personal freedom. They want bigger government, more government control, etc. All things that China has.

If you pressed Silver he'd probably prefer some type of communism. A more benevolent version maybe.

it's funny that you actually think China is communist

maybe you should ask these guys about Communism in China:

Jack Ma - 34 billion
Ma Huaten - 32 billion
Hui Ya Kan - 31 billion
Wang Jianlian - 22 billion
He Xiangjian - 19 billion

should I keep going?

China circa 2019 is more capitalistic than communist

Communism is for masses. Russia had people with plenty to. It is the masses that have to deal with it.

[E-Balla]

Are you talking specifically about Western support for HK, or about the HK protestors themselves?

I'm certain that to the HK protestors, their fight for 'democracy' (as I have already explained in a previous post, it is not democracy as most Westerners conceive of it, but a restructuring of the current electoral system to be more fair and less Beijing biased) might implicitly be 'defending western imperialism', but to them that is likely merely a technical point when faced with being subsumed completely by an authoritarian regime that has no qualms about genociding people because they didn't have the good grace to be born Han Chinese.

To the protestors, it's about making sure Hong Kong isn't fully subsumed before 2047 as per the terms China agreed to (that they've been busy violating, and due to the structure of the government, is basically unstoppable).

But if you're suggesting that the protestors demands are illegitimate because they implicitly defend western imperialism, that seems like a problematic and dismissive stance to me.

Also, what is the 'alternative' you refer to?

I'm talking Western support for HK and the alternative to me seems to be an independent (which would undeniably lead to war) which is a big no no. I get the protesters' stance and I always admire people rising up, what I don't get is the end goal. It's almost halfway to 2047, they need to start thinking of how this integration will work because they're lucky the UK even strong armed them into getting that 50 year grace period.

Their goal is a free and independent Hong Kong I don't understand what so difficult to understand about it.

Yeah if that's the goal like I said there's no moral side to pick and as someone on the outside I don't think it's my place to take a side. European colonialism vs Chinese authoritarianism. I'm leaving that alone.

[anatomicbomb]

I'm seriously impressed that this thread is still open.

Way to go, everyone!

[seccom]

The Chinese government is so childish. Such an insecure reaction by them.

Basically taking their ball and going home.

Wow, excellent basketball point, +100

[E-Balla]

I can almost hear E-balla apologizing for his thoughts on humans being free, wicked Western imperialist.

Huh?

I about choked on the equivalency in your post preceding my own:

“I think Taiwan should be allowed freedom too but I wholly recognize that's me projecting my own Western ideals onto Chinese people.”

Yeah I'm still lost here... There's no equivalency in my post at all it's a simple statement.

[clyde21]

Are you talking specifically about Western support for HK, or about the HK protestors themselves?

I'm certain that to the HK protestors, their fight for 'democracy' (as I have already explained in a previous post, it is not democracy as most Westerners conceive of it, but a restructuring of the current electoral system to be more fair and less Beijing biased) might implicitly be 'defending western imperialism', but to them that is likely merely a technical point when faced with being subsumed completely by an authoritarian regime that has no qualms about genociding people because they didn't have the good grace to be born Han Chinese.

To the protestors, it's about making sure Hong Kong isn't fully subsumed before 2047 as per the terms China agreed to (that they've been busy violating, and due to the structure of the government, is basically unstoppable).

But if you're suggesting that the protestors demands are illegitimate because they implicitly defend western imperialism, that seems like a problematic and dismissive stance to me.

Also, what is the 'alternative' you refer to?

I'm talking Western support for HK and the alternative to me seems to be an independent (which would undeniably lead to war) which is a big no no. I get the protesters' stance and I always admire people rising up, what I don't get is the end goal. It's almost halfway to 2047, they need to start thinking of how this integration will work because they're lucky the UK even strong armed them into getting that 50 year grace period.

Their goal is a free and independent Hong Kong I don't understand what so difficult to understand about it.

no, it's not, at least just in part. part of it is against the extradition law, part of it is against corruption, part of it is against the wealth gap, part of it is against immigration, and a huge number of HK protestors don't even really know wtf they're protesting.

[drekwins]

I'm talking Western support for HK and the alternative to me seems to be an independent (which would undeniably lead to war) which is a big no no. I get the protesters' stance and I always admire people rising up, what I don't get is the end goal. It's almost halfway to 2047, they need to start thinking of how this integration will work because they're lucky the UK even strong armed them into getting that 50 year grace period.

Their goal is a free and independent Hong Kong I don't understand what so difficult to understand about it.

Yeah if that's the goal like I said there's no moral side to pick and as someone on the outside I don't think it's my place to take a side. European colonialism vs Chinese authoritarianism. I'm leaving that alone.

No side to pick?

SIDE 1 - Hong Kong - Their people have enjoyed freedoms and a democratic state. They are seeking reassurances that this model will continue.

SIDE 2 - China - They will acquire control over Hong Kong and have provided no such assurances.. quite the opposite. Thus, the plan seems to be to convert Hong Kong from a democratic state to a communist state, roll back their freedoms, etc.

REACTIONS - The people within Hong Kong are very upset and scared. China doesn't care and will resort to violence.

I side with the people that want freedom over the government that's demanding them to accept it or face death.

[JeepCSC]

Huh?

I about choked on the equivalency in your post preceding my own:

“I think Taiwan should be allowed freedom too but I wholly recognize that's me projecting my own Western ideals onto Chinese people.”

Yeah I'm still lost here... There's no equivalency in my post at all it's a simple statement.

Well your next line was an actual equivalency (Western Imperialism and Chinese authoritarianism), but I didn’t feel the desire to touch that. So I went with your call to not give Freedom to some when you can sub in non-Western ideals instead.