Celtics exposed?

[ITYSL]

I really dont get the philly love. The essentially traded reddick and jimmy butler for a worse player in al horford at a redundant position and now somehow they are world beaters? I guess I don't see it. They are going to be a good defensive team but its not like butler was a poor defender by any stretch and they lost a ton of offensive firepower. I love Horford as a player but I don't see how he moves the needle

Not sure it's Philly love as much as it is some teams like the Celtics and Raps losing key players and taking a step back. Yeah, Philly lost Redick but they got Richardson. Lost Butler but they got Horford (at the expense of the Celtics). I'd expect Simmons and Embiid to continue improving. That should keep them at about the same level they were on last season, which likely gets them ahead of Boston and Toronto.

[itrsteve]

I really dont get the philly love. The essentially traded reddick and jimmy butler for a worse player in al horford at a redundant position and now somehow they are world beaters? I guess I don't see it. They are going to be a good defensive team but its not like butler was a poor defender by any stretch and they lost a ton of offensive firepower. I love Horford as a player but I don't see how he moves the needle

First we have to admit to ourselves that Horford was typically rather effective against Embiid and Giannis... Those two are seen as the new gate keepers of the east, so it seems logical as a big plus for Philly and a minus for Boston. I can't fault the logic entirely.

I find it a little humorous that the media sort of treated Al as an afterthought in Boston, but then once he leaves it's "OMG they're so f'd". Meanwhile Philly loses two critical guys in the 4th quarter, but it's no big deal? Either way, we can all evaluate the impact after the games are played. We'll certainly have a better picture in a week.

The net of it to Boston is that there's an undeniable hole when facing those two stars

[ajones9219]

I really dont get the philly love. The essentially traded reddick and jimmy butler for a worse player in al horford at a redundant position and now somehow they are world beaters? I guess I don't see it. They are going to be a good defensive team but its not like butler was a poor defender by any stretch and they lost a ton of offensive firepower. I love Horford as a player but I don't see how he moves the needle

Not sure it's Philly love as much as it is some teams like the Celtics and Raps losing key players and taking a step back. Yeah, Philly lost Redick but they got Richardson. Lost Butler but they got Horford (at the expense of the Celtics). I'd expect Simmons and Embiid to continue improving. That should keep them at about the same level they were on last season, which likely gets them ahead of Boston and Toronto.

I dont disagree with your analysys per se but that's not what I've really been hearing out of the national guys. It's more that philly took some massive step forward and are some juggernaut team now and I dont get it. I'd also argue Boston is better than last year but that's a much more controversial take

[Feed Your Head]

Philly did get Josh Richardon in the Butler deal, really shouldn't be overlooked. He is a guy who can play awesome defense on 1s-smaller 3s, and probably will shoot close to 40% from 3.

[Duffman100]

Eastern Conference Finals 2 of the last 3 years?

And the Raps have been 2 of the last 4. And have won 50 games how many years in a row?

But the talk around the Raps is solely around loosing Kawhi. The talk around the Celtics isn't around losing their entire frontcourt or having a razor thin bench, it's around Kemba and the growth of the young kids.

Funny thing is I actually like this Celtics team. I love Kemba, I believe in Tatum, love Brown and Smart is my spirit animal.

But having them almost unanimously ranked above the Pacers, Nets and Raptors for no other reason than they're the Celtics is ridiculous.

I think the Celtics have the best player and best coach out of the Raps/Pacers/ Celtics and the better combo than the Nets until KD gets back.
Point is that it's not crazy to put them ahead of those teams in any way.

Best coach is definitely subjective.

[Snotbubbles]

I really dont get the philly love. The essentially traded reddick and jimmy butler for a worse player in al horford at a redundant position and now somehow they are world beaters? I guess I don't see it. They are going to be a good defensive team but its not like butler was a poor defender by any stretch and they lost a ton of offensive firepower. I love Horford as a player but I don't see how he moves the needle

Not sure it's Philly love as much as it is some teams like the Celtics and Raps losing key players and taking a step back. Yeah, Philly lost Redick but they got Richardson. Lost Butler but they got Horford (at the expense of the Celtics). I'd expect Simmons and Embiid to continue improving. That should keep them at about the same level they were on last season, which likely gets them ahead of Boston and Toronto.

The Sixers backup center position was a black hole last year. It's why Embiid had some crazy on/off numbers because when he went out, they had nothing. Now they can play Horford at the 4 when Embiid is in and then slide Horford to the 5 when Embiid goes out. It's a massive upgrade.

They also added Josh Richardson who they will use to guard the smaller quicker guards. The Sixers were pretty bad at defending PGs last year.

They are also pretty excited about Matisse Thybulle. He looks like he could be a young Robert Covington off the bench. Defensively he already looks incredible. Hopefully, it will translate from the pre-season to the regular season.

They lost Redick's sharp shooting and Butler was a good closer and defender but the team just fits better as a whole now. It's going to be interesting to see how teams attack their huge lineups.

[Gooner]

And the Raps have been 2 of the last 4. And have won 50 games how many years in a row?

But the talk around the Raps is solely around loosing Kawhi. The talk around the Celtics isn't around losing their entire frontcourt or having a razor thin bench, it's around Kemba and the growth of the young kids.

Funny thing is I actually like this Celtics team. I love Kemba, I believe in Tatum, love Brown and Smart is my spirit animal.

But having them almost unanimously ranked above the Pacers, Nets and Raptors for no other reason than they're the Celtics is ridiculous.

I think the Celtics have the best player and best coach out of the Raps/Pacers/ Celtics and the better combo than the Nets until KD gets back.
Point is that it's not crazy to put them ahead of those teams in any way.

Best coach is definitely subjective.

I'd take Nurse over Stevens any day. He is a proven championship level coach now, Stevens just isn't. He has never won aynthing in his whole career. Last season he had to deal with some expectations and pressure for the first time in his NBA career, and he failed. His offense isn't anything special either, his success was based on playing scrappy basketball with some young players. That can only take you so far, and maybe that's Stevens' ceiling. This year is crucial for him.

[ajones9219]

I think the Celtics have the best player and best coach out of the Raps/Pacers/ Celtics and the better combo than the Nets until KD gets back.
Point is that it's not crazy to put them ahead of those teams in any way.

Best coach is definitely subjective.

I'd take Nurse over Stevens any day. He is a proven championship level coach now, Stevens just isn't. He has never won aynthing in his whole career. Last season he had to deal with some expectations and pressure for the first time in his NBA career, and he failed. His offense isn't anything special either, his success was based on playing scrappy basketball with some young players. That can only take you so far, and maybe that's Stevens' ceiling. This year is crucial for him.

Very easy to see with Kawhi dragging the team to a chip. Swap in Luke Walton and the raps still win

[ajones9219]

I really dont get the philly love. The essentially traded reddick and jimmy butler for a worse player in al horford at a redundant position and now somehow they are world beaters? I guess I don't see it. They are going to be a good defensive team but its not like butler was a poor defender by any stretch and they lost a ton of offensive firepower. I love Horford as a player but I don't see how he moves the needle

Not sure it's Philly love as much as it is some teams like the Celtics and Raps losing key players and taking a step back. Yeah, Philly lost Redick but they got Richardson. Lost Butler but they got Horford (at the expense of the Celtics). I'd expect Simmons and Embiid to continue improving. That should keep them at about the same level they were on last season, which likely gets them ahead of Boston and Toronto.

The Sixers backup center position was a black hole last year. It's why Embiid had some crazy on/off numbers because when he went out, they had nothing. Now they can play Horford at the 4 when Embiid is in and then slide Horford to the 5 when Embiid goes out. It's a massive upgrade.

They also added Josh Richardson who they will use to guard the smaller quicker guards. The Sixers were pretty bad at defending PGs last year.

They are also pretty excited about Matisse Thybulle. He looks like he could be a young Robert Covington off the bench. Defensively he already looks incredible. Hopefully, it will translate from the pre-season to the regular season.

They lost Redick's sharp shooting and Butler was a good closer and defender but the team just fits better as a whole now. It's going to be interesting to see how teams attack their huge lineups.

This is downplaying butler's importance while hyping Horford. It's also over hyping defense at the expense of offense. Nobody disagrees that the Sixers defense should be legit. I question if Embiid, tobias and Simmons provide enough offense for it to make a difference. Al Horford hasn't been a guy to lean on offensively in 2 years and Richardson while a good shooter isnt a guy you want to lean on in a close game. Teams can pack the paint against the Sixers because they have no semblance of an outside game

[Duffman100]

Best coach is definitely subjective.

I'd take Nurse over Stevens any day. He is a proven championship level coach now, Stevens just isn't. He has never won aynthing in his whole career. Last season he had to deal with some expectations and pressure for the first time in his NBA career, and he failed. His offense isn't anything special either, his success was based on playing scrappy basketball with some young players. That can only take you so far, and maybe that's Stevens' ceiling. This year is crucial for him.

Very easy to see with Kawhi dragging the team to a chip. Swap in Luke Walton and the raps still win

Maybe another coach keeps Kyrie and the locker room in check?

[Feed Your Head]

This thread is never going to die.

[ajones9219]

I'd take Nurse over Stevens any day. He is a proven championship level coach now, Stevens just isn't. He has never won aynthing in his whole career. Last season he had to deal with some expectations and pressure for the first time in his NBA career, and he failed. His offense isn't anything special either, his success was based on playing scrappy basketball with some young players. That can only take you so far, and maybe that's Stevens' ceiling. This year is crucial for him.

Very easy to see with Kawhi dragging the team to a chip. Swap in Luke Walton and the raps still win

Maybe another coach keeps Kyrie and the locker room in check?

Only one person keeps kyrie in check and that's lebron. And it made him so mad he threw a tantrum and got traded. Firmly believe he nukes the nets too

[Duffman100]

Very easy to see with Kawhi dragging the team to a chip. Swap in Luke Walton and the raps still win

Maybe another coach keeps Kyrie and the locker room in check?

Only one person keeps kyrie in check and that's lebron. And it made him so mad he threw a tantrum and got traded. Firmly believe he nukes the nets too

Maybe Luke Walton keeps Kyrie in check?

[Blaze4G]

Eastern Conference Finals 2 of the last 3 years?

And the Raps have been 2 of the last 4. And have won 50 games how many years in a row?

But the talk around the Raps is solely around loosing Kawhi. The talk around the Celtics isn't around losing their entire frontcourt or having a razor thin bench, it's around Kemba and the growth of the young kids.

Funny thing is I actually like this Celtics team. I love Kemba, I believe in Tatum, love Brown and Smart is my spirit animal.

But having them almost unanimously ranked above the Pacers, Nets and Raptors for no other reason than they're the Celtics is ridiculous.

I think the Celtics have the best player and best coach out of the Raps/Pacers/ Celtics and the better combo than the Nets until KD gets back.
Point is that it's not crazy to put them ahead of those teams in any way.

Best coach I agree, best player I am not so sure. I think lowry, siakam and kemba are pretty even. I would add Tatum into that ...dont think tatum is on their level yet but after this season I think he will be.

However, imo I would pick the celtics 10 out of 10 times to have a better record than raps this year. Celtics has multiple players that are expected to make leaps this season. Raps only have siakam to take a next leap.

[ajones9219]

Maybe another coach keeps Kyrie and the locker room in check?

Only one person keeps kyrie in check and that's lebron. And it made him so mad he threw a tantrum and got traded. Firmly believe he nukes the nets too

Maybe Luke Walton keeps Kyrie in check?

Doubtful. We'll see though how this year shakes out. Nurse gets a team without a top 3 players and Steven's gets a non toxic team.

[ajones9219]

And the Raps have been 2 of the last 4. And have won 50 games how many years in a row?

But the talk around the Raps is solely around loosing Kawhi. The talk around the Celtics isn't around losing their entire frontcourt or having a razor thin bench, it's around Kemba and the growth of the young kids.

Funny thing is I actually like this Celtics team. I love Kemba, I believe in Tatum, love Brown and Smart is my spirit animal.

But having them almost unanimously ranked above the Pacers, Nets and Raptors for no other reason than they're the Celtics is ridiculous.

I think the Celtics have the best player and best coach out of the Raps/Pacers/ Celtics and the better combo than the Nets until KD gets back.
Point is that it's not crazy to put them ahead of those teams in any way.

Best coach I agree, best player I am not so sure. I think lowry, siakam and kemba are pretty even. I would add Tatum into that ...dont think tatum is on their level yet but after this season I think he will be.

However, imo I would pick the celtics 10 out of 10 times to have a better record than raps this year. Celtics has multiple players that are expected to make leaps this season. Raps only have siakam to take a next leap.

Bruh I know you didnt just say Lowry and siakem are even with Kemba lmao

[Liminy]

Not sure it's Philly love as much as it is some teams like the Celtics and Raps losing key players and taking a step back. Yeah, Philly lost Redick but they got Richardson. Lost Butler but they got Horford (at the expense of the Celtics). I'd expect Simmons and Embiid to continue improving. That should keep them at about the same level they were on last season, which likely gets them ahead of Boston and Toronto.

The Sixers backup center position was a black hole last year. It's why Embiid had some crazy on/off numbers because when he went out, they had nothing. Now they can play Horford at the 4 when Embiid is in and then slide Horford to the 5 when Embiid goes out. It's a massive upgrade.

They also added Josh Richardson who they will use to guard the smaller quicker guards. The Sixers were pretty bad at defending PGs last year.

They are also pretty excited about Matisse Thybulle. He looks like he could be a young Robert Covington off the bench. Defensively he already looks incredible. Hopefully, it will translate from the pre-season to the regular season.

They lost Redick's sharp shooting and Butler was a good closer and defender but the team just fits better as a whole now. It's going to be interesting to see how teams attack their huge lineups.

This is downplaying butler's importance while hyping Horford. It's also over hyping defense at the expense of offense. Nobody disagrees that the Sixers defense should be legit. I question if Embiid, tobias and Simmons provide enough offense for it to make a difference. Al Horford hasn't been a guy to lean on offensively in 2 years and Richardson while a good shooter isnt a guy you want to lean on in a close game. Teams can pack the paint against the Sixers because they have no semblance of an outside game

Too me Philly basically treaded water with an improved defense and less spacing on offense. Maybe there is some internal growth from the young guys. The main thing is that all of the teams that were clearly ahead lost key pieces so they are definitely in the top tier now. A much wider tier than last year's top.

[Duffman100]

Only one person keeps kyrie in check and that's lebron. And it made him so mad he threw a tantrum and got traded. Firmly believe he nukes the nets too

Maybe Luke Walton keeps Kyrie in check?

Doubtful. We'll see though how this year shakes out. Nurse gets a team without a top 3 players and Steven's gets a non toxic team.

Yeah so calling him the best coach is definitely subjective and could easily be wrong.

Maybe Stevens did keep a strong locker room? Maybe Nurse was completely propped up by the team or maybe he was key to their success.

[MagicBagley18]

I'd take Nurse over Stevens any day. He is a proven championship level coach now, Stevens just isn't. He has never won aynthing in his whole career. Last season he had to deal with some expectations and pressure for the first time in his NBA career, and he failed. His offense isn't anything special either, his success was based on playing scrappy basketball with some young players. That can only take you so far, and maybe that's Stevens' ceiling. This year is crucial for him.

Very easy to see with Kawhi dragging the team to a chip. Swap in Luke Walton and the raps still win

Maybe another coach keeps Kyrie and the locker room in check?

he's 100% a better coach then nate mcmillan and yes your right it's yet to be seen how he handles superstar players but also keep in mind as bad as the team record was -kyrie has arguably his best season ever under stevens.

i'd love to see nick nurse deal with the same situation that stevens had last year with 2 different timelines in regards to vets and young players coming off an ECF, a malcontent superstar (as oppose to the most laid back star in the league in kawhi) and i think if stevens is coaching raptors the same thing happens (they win it all).

stevens has overachieved every season of his career except last year, let's see if nick nurse overachieves this season without kawhi leonard.

you can get cute all you want about ''subjectivity'' but i can almost guarantee if the 3 of them were able to be hired by any team starting a franchise ; stevens gets picked first

[Duffman100]

you can get cute all you want about ''subjectivity'' but i can almost guarantee if the 3 of them were able to be hired by any team starting a franchise ; stevens gets picked first

It's not cute.

Provide me objective data that Stevens is better than Nurse.