OT: Hong Kong, China, United States and NBA

[Clyde_Style]

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[jvsimonetti0514]

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Lebron would like to shut up and dribble now because he’s not a politician.

[Clyde_Style]

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[MadGrinch]

so he doesn't believe the gross injustices are going on in china? maybe he's one ignorant of the facts, or worse yet he does and says nothing which is even worse

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he could care less about the people of HK, if he truly wants to take a stand it would of been the perfect time, but no he only cares about "the timing" aka when hes in china

Maybe you haven't heard China has a reputation for violence when it comes to people with different opinions...so my bet is if you were in china you would care too.

2ndly China's response is actually reasonable considering the situation, they've actually done surprisingly little , which no one seems to have noticed Hong Kong is semi autonomous it has its own police force which is carrying out violence to restore order ...not China which does have an army garrison in the city but has not used it , China has mostly engaged in a propaganda campaign to turn chinese sentiment against the protesters

which has been extremely successful thus far , they've ramped up the nationalistic fervor playing on the fact that the only reason hong kong is in the situation its in is because of western imperialism, a main reason Daryl Morey's tweet was reacted in such a harsh manner. As an American he is seen as an imperialist backing separatists.

i live in the United States and i've studied its history , my country most likely would have dealt with the protesters in a similar manner , the united states does not allow its citizens to dictate its freedoms anymore than the residents of hong kong or china

how are the voting rights for the residents of washington DC?
or the residents of Puerto Rico?
do the citizens of Flint Michigan have clean water yet
when cops kill americans they are almost never prosecuted even with overwhelming evidence.
over 1000 citizens are killed by cops every year, mostly unarmed ...and its an open secret that cops cover their crimes up if allowed to which they often are.

there are gross injustices right here I for one refuse to prioritize the plights of others before my own country and if i were to start it wouldn't be with hong kong, this is purely manufactured outrage.

the funny part is this was all over a law Hong Kong had passed , but has since repealed concerning extradition.

basically its a leaderless mob with no real plan , therefore it will accomplish nothing because no one can negotiate with a mob and everyone knows China if need be would squash any rebellions, including the protesters

there is no endgame here , but it surely won't end in freedom for hong kong, when polled most people from hong kong don't even want that

Hello there, nice to know you have some idea on what is going on here.

Some of your claim is true, like this campaign is nearly leaderless, government may have difficulty to find whom to negotiate with etc.

However, protesters' demand is quite clear, if universal suffrage is delivered as promised in the basic law (the joint declaration between UK and PRC, which is archived in United Nation and its basic law has stated that Hong Kong people should have right to cast the vote and select their own Chief Executive and all members of the Legislative Council (now only 50-55% depend how to define universal) in 2007) , or at least a timeline or a schedule will solve most of the problem here.

United States has 85k people here in Hong Kong now, their voice really should be a force and can give pressure for Hong Kong or PRC to react. Especially what Hong Kong is enjoying after 1997, is with the endorsement by US and other Western countries, without it PRC can dream on how to build a replicant of Hong Kong.

its funny if this is now over universal suffrage why are americans involved , when americans don't have universal suffrage .(felons, DC, US territories such as PR and the virgin islands )

at the end of the day its a Chinese matter and what the UN's resolutions ultimately matter little .

if it did the USA would be much different, they've called on them to free Puerto Rico
and pay black people reparations which has been estimated at nearly 6 trillion

if our country doesn't listen to the UN why should China?

and once again HK is only in this position because China lost a war with the British so from their prospective this is none of our business .

and why should americans who number less that 100k have a significant voice in a city of over 7 million?

and don't get me wrong I dont care for what is going on in Hong Kong ,but Americans being hypocritical is not the answer , judging their level of freedom when most americans are dissatisfied with their own level of freedom or are simply ignorant to how it compares to other nations.

to me there are far more egregious matters going on that get almost no attention like actual wars , to me this is more a situation like Washington DC or Puerto Rico which isn't great but not something that should cost lives.

my interpretation is Hong Kong is its own city state, semi-autonomous but it wants full rights in chinese society without relinquishing the freedoms that come with it .

that doesn't seem like a worldwide matter to me if anything it seems like a game of chess in which countries are trying to have a say in Chinese affairs in HK that China feels they don't have a right to and are manufacturing dissent to exert pressure.

[MadGrinch]

Communist party running capitalism.....ie nationalistic / fascist capitalism, which is worse than MNC-led capitalism.

You calling the peoples republic of China and the communist party of china facist?

Government controlled economy is still a government controlled economy.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yes and no.

Imagine that your hard fought money, your purchased property or established company can be stripped in no time in the name of nation/party;

Imagine Tim Cook or Steve Jobs (Mr. Ma) has to step down from his own company (Alibaba) not due to shareholders' voting, but due to his influence (Alipay, Taobao; Chinese equivalent for Paypal and Amazon) "threatening" the country;

Imagine the government can tear down your house without your consent or any reasonable compensations, and if you try to voice out you are unpatriotic, unloyal to your country; and if you even dare to start any campaign or post to your twitter or facebook, you may receive a ban to the account and there will be state cop visiting your house, trying to tame you down;

Imagine when an earthquake happens, the government building stays strong while the schools collapsed; and those heartbroken parents will be condemned as connecting to foreign country and try to overthrow the government;

Imagine people comes with a ranking system, when you try to say anything about any policy, you may be restricted and not allowed to buy an air ticket or ride a train, not to mention to own a car;

And this is against their own people! Not Jews not minorities but their own people which includes the taxpayers and party members.

It could be a place which is far from where you are living, but if the above is what they do against their own people, think of what will happen if they are your conquerer. And unlike Soviet Union, they are trying to influence the Western world, without trying to convert you into a commie.

There is a reason why most of the Chinese richer people will try every possible method to move out of that country, no matter how "patriotic" they claim to be.

a lot of what you say for Chinese happens here as well

we have anti-trust laws to break up companies that get too big and powerful
we have laws of eminent domain that allows govt. to take property if it deems it needs it more than you .
we have the FBI which has targeted Americans for anything from slander to murder for standing up for their rights (COINTELPRO)
we have no fly lists (many of whom have not had due process to deduce if they were rightfully prohibited from travel)
we have the war on drugs which disproportionately attacks the poor and people of color
we have the war on terror which disproportionately attacks people from the middle east and Muslims
we have times where people are whipped into nationalistic frenzies where people will attack their fellow man , woman or child for espousing different beliefs or looking a different way
we have stop and frisk which targets minorities and young men of color

about 5-7 years ago it was free to denounce your citizenship but because so many people wanted to do it , it now will run you about 4-5 k

that part i bolded was because it sounded like there are groups you feel should be targeted before others , like that is ever ok.

but my greater point is people are so quick to target China for its perceived transgressions when it would be of more use to fix stuff here not only because its here but also , other countries have no problem throwing that back in our face when we try to speak against them.

no one listens to hypocrites.

[robillionaire]

You calling the peoples republic of China and the communist party of china facist?

Government controlled economy is still a government controlled economy.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yes and no.

Imagine that your hard fought money, your purchased property or established company can be stripped in no time in the name of nation/party;

Imagine Tim Cook or Steve Jobs (Mr. Ma) has to step down from his own company (Alibaba) not due to shareholders' voting, but due to his influence (Alipay, Taobao; Chinese equivalent for Paypal and Amazon) "threatening" the country;

Imagine the government can tear down your house without your consent or any reasonable compensations, and if you try to voice out you are unpatriotic, unloyal to your country; and if you even dare to start any campaign or post to your twitter or facebook, you may receive a ban to the account and there will be state cop visiting your house, trying to tame you down;

Imagine when an earthquake happens, the government building stays strong while the schools collapsed; and those heartbroken parents will be condemned as connecting to foreign country and try to overthrow the government;

Imagine people comes with a ranking system, when you try to say anything about any policy, you may be restricted and not allowed to buy an air ticket or ride a train, not to mention to own a car;

And this is against their own people! Not Jews not minorities but their own people which includes the taxpayers and party members.

It could be a place which is far from where you are living, but if the above is what they do against their own people, think of what will happen if they are your conquerer. And unlike Soviet Union, they are trying to influence the Western world, without trying to convert you into a commie.

There is a reason why most of the Chinese richer people will try every possible method to move out of that country, no matter how "patriotic" they claim to be.

a lot of what you say for Chinese happens here as well

we have anti-trust laws to break up companies that get too big and powerful
we have laws of eminent domain that allows govt. to take property if it deems it needs it more than you .
we have the FBI which has targeted Americans for anything from slander to murder for standing up for their rights (COINTELPRO)
we have no fly lists (many of whom have not had due process to deduce if they were rightfully prohibited from travel)
we have the war on drugs which disproportionately attacks the poor and people of color
we have the war on terror which disproportionately attacks people from the middle east and Muslims
we have times where people are whipped into nationalistic frenzies where people will attack their fellow man , woman or child for espousing different beliefs or looking a different way
we have stop and frisk which targets minorities and young men of color

about 5-7 years ago it was free to denounce your citizenship but because so many people wanted to do it , it now will run you about 4-5 k

that part i bolded was because it sounded like there are groups you feel should be targeted before others , like that is ever ok.

but my greater point is people are so quick to target China for its perceived transgressions when it would be of more use to fix stuff here not only because its here but also , other countries have no problem throwing that back in our face when we try to speak against them.

no one listens to hypocrites.

Yeah I agree, for me I just have trouble believing that suddenly people even care about police brutality in Hong Kong or a population of Muslims when we have spent decades blowing up Muslims and discriminating against them or upholding police brutality in our own communities that far exceeds anything Hong Kong has ever encountered (seriously look up the amount of people killed by police in HK, like one person ever) and people who stand up and speak out against police brutality here are largely ridiculed (Kaepernick) or called terrorist groups (black lives matter). It seems much more likely that the feigned concern is actually just a case of sinophobia/yellow peril and the desire to overthrow their government for political gain/us corporate interests more than anything else. I don’t agree with the way China operates but I wish people were more honest about the motive here and had the same energy and passion about the issues right in front of our faces

[Stannis]

He just shouldn't have said anything.

I'm honestly not mad that he wouldn't speak out against China. I think 95% of people would do the same if they were in his position.

It's just that he went out of his way to throw Morey under the bus. A b**ch move.

[Blockwatcher]

Watch on YouTube

Great insights into how China operates. Worth watching if interested in China and want to get to the bottom of the physce.

Watched the whole thing. Hard pills to swallow in there.

[blueNorange]

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Lebron would like to shut up and dribble now because he’s not a politician.

in one interview, and now a follow up ... lebron just destroyed his rep.

[Dave DaButcher]

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?s=21

[DOLPHIN2020]

Maybe you haven't heard China has a reputation for violence when it comes to people with different opinions...so my bet is if you were in china you would care too.

2ndly China's response is actually reasonable considering the situation, they've actually done surprisingly little , which no one seems to have noticed Hong Kong is semi autonomous it has its own police force which is carrying out violence to restore order ...not China which does have an army garrison in the city but has not used it , China has mostly engaged in a propaganda campaign to turn chinese sentiment against the protesters

which has been extremely successful thus far , they've ramped up the nationalistic fervor playing on the fact that the only reason hong kong is in the situation its in is because of western imperialism, a main reason Daryl Morey's tweet was reacted in such a harsh manner. As an American he is seen as an imperialist backing separatists.

i live in the United States and i've studied its history , my country most likely would have dealt with the protesters in a similar manner , the united states does not allow its citizens to dictate its freedoms anymore than the residents of hong kong or china

how are the voting rights for the residents of washington DC?
or the residents of Puerto Rico?
do the citizens of Flint Michigan have clean water yet
when cops kill americans they are almost never prosecuted even with overwhelming evidence.
over 1000 citizens are killed by cops every year, mostly unarmed ...and its an open secret that cops cover their crimes up if allowed to which they often are.

there are gross injustices right here I for one refuse to prioritize the plights of others before my own country and if i were to start it wouldn't be with hong kong, this is purely manufactured outrage.

the funny part is this was all over a law Hong Kong had passed , but has since repealed concerning extradition.

basically its a leaderless mob with no real plan , therefore it will accomplish nothing because no one can negotiate with a mob and everyone knows China if need be would squash any rebellions, including the protesters

there is no endgame here , but it surely won't end in freedom for hong kong, when polled most people from hong kong don't even want that

Hello there, nice to know you have some idea on what is going on here.

Some of your claim is true, like this campaign is nearly leaderless, government may have difficulty to find whom to negotiate with etc.

However, protesters' demand is quite clear, if universal suffrage is delivered as promised in the basic law (the joint declaration between UK and PRC, which is archived in United Nation and its basic law has stated that Hong Kong people should have right to cast the vote and select their own Chief Executive and all members of the Legislative Council (now only 50-55% depend how to define universal) in 2007) , or at least a timeline or a schedule will solve most of the problem here.

United States has 85k people here in Hong Kong now, their voice really should be a force and can give pressure for Hong Kong or PRC to react. Especially what Hong Kong is enjoying after 1997, is with the endorsement by US and other Western countries, without it PRC can dream on how to build a replicant of Hong Kong.

its funny if this is now over universal suffrage why are americans involved , when americans don't have universal suffrage .(felons, DC, US territories such as PR and the virgin islands )

at the end of the day its a Chinese matter and what the UN's resolutions ultimately matter little .

if it did the USA would be much different, they've called on them to free Puerto Rico
and pay black people reparations which has been estimated at nearly 6 trillion

if our country doesn't listen to the UN why should China?

and once again HK is only in this position because China lost a war with the British so from their prospective this is none of our business .

and why should americans who number less that 100k have a significant voice in a city of over 7 million?

and don't get me wrong I dont care for what is going on in Hong Kong ,but Americans being hypocritical is not the answer , judging their level of freedom when most americans are dissatisfied with their own level of freedom or are simply ignorant to how it compares to other nations.

to me there are far more egregious matters going on that get almost no attention like actual wars , to me this is more a situation like Washington DC or Puerto Rico which isn't great but not something that should cost lives.

my interpretation is Hong Kong is its own city state, semi-autonomous but it wants full rights in chinese society without relinquishing the freedoms that come with it .

that doesn't seem like a worldwide matter to me if anything it seems like a game of chess in which countries are trying to have a say in Chinese affairs in HK that China feels they don't have a right to and are manufacturing dissent to exert pressure.

[DOLPHIN2020]

Watch on YouTube

Great insights into how China operates. Worth watching if interested in China and want to get to the bottom of the physce.

Watched the whole thing. Hard pills to swallow in there.

[DOLPHIN2020]

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/10/16/breaking-hong-kong-protest-leader-jimmy-sham-attacked-tai-kok-tsui/

Hong Kong protest leader Jimmy Sham attacked in Tai Kok Tsui

The convenor of Hong Kong’s Civil Human Rights Front (CHRF) has been attacked by unidentified men with hammers in Kowloon.

...

.

[HarthorneWingo]

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?s=21

Wow! A voice of measured reason

[Clyde_Style]

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Lebron would like to shut up and dribble now because he’s not a politician.

wotta fookin doosh nozzle

[matchman]

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?s=21

Wow! A voice of measured reason

KD should take a private lesson from Joe regarding this.

[MadGrinch]

Yes and no.

Imagine that your hard fought money, your purchased property or established company can be stripped in no time in the name of nation/party;

Imagine Tim Cook or Steve Jobs (Mr. Ma) has to step down from his own company (Alibaba) not due to shareholders' voting, but due to his influence (Alipay, Taobao; Chinese equivalent for Paypal and Amazon) "threatening" the country;

Imagine the government can tear down your house without your consent or any reasonable compensations, and if you try to voice out you are unpatriotic, unloyal to your country; and if you even dare to start any campaign or post to your twitter or facebook, you may receive a ban to the account and there will be state cop visiting your house, trying to tame you down;

Imagine when an earthquake happens, the government building stays strong while the schools collapsed; and those heartbroken parents will be condemned as connecting to foreign country and try to overthrow the government;

Imagine people comes with a ranking system, when you try to say anything about any policy, you may be restricted and not allowed to buy an air ticket or ride a train, not to mention to own a car;

And this is against their own people! Not Jews not minorities but their own people which includes the taxpayers and party members.

It could be a place which is far from where you are living, but if the above is what they do against their own people, think of what will happen if they are your conquerer. And unlike Soviet Union, they are trying to influence the Western world, without trying to convert you into a commie.

There is a reason why most of the Chinese richer people will try every possible method to move out of that country, no matter how "patriotic" they claim to be.

a lot of what you say for Chinese happens here as well

we have anti-trust laws to break up companies that get too big and powerful
we have laws of eminent domain that allows govt. to take property if it deems it needs it more than you .
we have the FBI which has targeted Americans for anything from slander to murder for standing up for their rights (COINTELPRO)
we have no fly lists (many of whom have not had due process to deduce if they were rightfully prohibited from travel)
we have the war on drugs which disproportionately attacks the poor and people of color
we have the war on terror which disproportionately attacks people from the middle east and Muslims
we have times where people are whipped into nationalistic frenzies where people will attack their fellow man , woman or child for espousing different beliefs or looking a different way
we have stop and frisk which targets minorities and young men of color

about 5-7 years ago it was free to denounce your citizenship but because so many people wanted to do it , it now will run you about 4-5 k

that part i bolded was because it sounded like there are groups you feel should be targeted before others , like that is ever ok.

but my greater point is people are so quick to target China for its perceived transgressions when it would be of more use to fix stuff here not only because its here but also , other countries have no problem throwing that back in our face when we try to speak against them.

no one listens to hypocrites.

Yeah I agree, for me I just have trouble believing that suddenly people even care about police brutality in Hong Kong or a population of Muslims when we have spent decades blowing up Muslims and discriminating against them or upholding police brutality in our own communities that far exceeds anything Hong Kong has ever encountered (seriously look up the amount of people killed by police in HK, like one person ever) and people who stand up and speak out against police brutality here are largely ridiculed (Kaepernick) or called terrorist groups (black lives matter). It seems much more likely that the feigned concern is actually just a case of sinophobia/yellow peril and the desire to overthrow their government for political gain/us corporate interests more than anything else. I don’t agree with the way China operates but I wish people were more honest about the motive here and had the same energy and passion about the issues right in front of our faces

i don't doubt there are people legitimately outraged about what's going on there like matchman because he is in HK, but to believe Americans in general are rings hollow or they are simply easily led and triggered and don't give much thought to the world around them.

and on this thread people are upset with Lebron after a week of people wanting to hear what he had to say because his opinion didn't match theirs despite the fact his motivations and his experiences on the matter are clearly different. That is not valuing his opinion , its demanding validation for their own.

[Clyde_Style]

a lot of what you say for Chinese happens here as well

we have anti-trust laws to break up companies that get too big and powerful
we have laws of eminent domain that allows govt. to take property if it deems it needs it more than you .
we have the FBI which has targeted Americans for anything from slander to murder for standing up for their rights (COINTELPRO)
we have no fly lists (many of whom have not had due process to deduce if they were rightfully prohibited from travel)
we have the war on drugs which disproportionately attacks the poor and people of color
we have the war on terror which disproportionately attacks people from the middle east and Muslims
we have times where people are whipped into nationalistic frenzies where people will attack their fellow man , woman or child for espousing different beliefs or looking a different way
we have stop and frisk which targets minorities and young men of color

about 5-7 years ago it was free to denounce your citizenship but because so many people wanted to do it , it now will run you about 4-5 k

that part i bolded was because it sounded like there are groups you feel should be targeted before others , like that is ever ok.

but my greater point is people are so quick to target China for its perceived transgressions when it would be of more use to fix stuff here not only because its here but also , other countries have no problem throwing that back in our face when we try to speak against them.

no one listens to hypocrites.

Yeah I agree, for me I just have trouble believing that suddenly people even care about police brutality in Hong Kong or a population of Muslims when we have spent decades blowing up Muslims and discriminating against them or upholding police brutality in our own communities that far exceeds anything Hong Kong has ever encountered (seriously look up the amount of people killed by police in HK, like one person ever) and people who stand up and speak out against police brutality here are largely ridiculed (Kaepernick) or called terrorist groups (black lives matter). It seems much more likely that the feigned concern is actually just a case of sinophobia/yellow peril and the desire to overthrow their government for political gain/us corporate interests more than anything else. I don’t agree with the way China operates but I wish people were more honest about the motive here and had the same energy and passion about the issues right in front of our faces

i don't doubt there are people legitimately outraged about what's going on there like matchman because he is in HK, but to believe Americans in general are rings hollow or they are simply easily led and triggered and don't give much thought to the world around them.

and on this thread people are upset with Lebron after a week of people wanting to hear what he had to say because his opinion didn't match theirs despite the fact his motivations and his experiences on the matter are clearly different. That is not valuing his opinion , its demanding validation for their own.

Um, no, that is not what people are saying about Lebron and why. He actually said nothing of substance about China beyond claiming he is informed on the subject while being abjectly stupid and saying others are not informed like he is which is both arrogant and messed up. What he did say about China was communicated very clearly by his attempt to shut down actual free speech on the topic because he wants to enforce the NBA's financial interests in China that coincide with his own. Saying people were "triggered" by Lebron's difference of opinion is wrong, because it was Lebron who had no respect for other opinions so I don't know how you got it all backwards. Lebron was the triggered one and he made a fool of himself and stepped into the chit because of it.

[blanko]

#morethananathelete

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

[MadGrinch]

Yeah I agree, for me I just have trouble believing that suddenly people even care about police brutality in Hong Kong or a population of Muslims when we have spent decades blowing up Muslims and discriminating against them or upholding police brutality in our own communities that far exceeds anything Hong Kong has ever encountered (seriously look up the amount of people killed by police in HK, like one person ever) and people who stand up and speak out against police brutality here are largely ridiculed (Kaepernick) or called terrorist groups (black lives matter). It seems much more likely that the feigned concern is actually just a case of sinophobia/yellow peril and the desire to overthrow their government for political gain/us corporate interests more than anything else. I don’t agree with the way China operates but I wish people were more honest about the motive here and had the same energy and passion about the issues right in front of our faces

i don't doubt there are people legitimately outraged about what's going on there like matchman because he is in HK, but to believe Americans in general are rings hollow or they are simply easily led and triggered and don't give much thought to the world around them.

and on this thread people are upset with Lebron after a week of people wanting to hear what he had to say because his opinion didn't match theirs despite the fact his motivations and his experiences on the matter are clearly different. That is not valuing his opinion , its demanding validation for their own.

Um, no, that is not what people are saying about Lebron and why. He actually said nothing of substance about China beyond claiming he is informed on the subject while being abjectly stupid and saying others are not informed like he is which is both arrogant and messed up. What he did say about China was communicated very clearly by his attempt to shut down actual free speech on the topic because he wants to enforce the NBA's financial interests in China that coincide with his own. Saying people were "triggered" by Lebron's difference of opinion is wrong, because it was Lebron who had no respect for other opinions so I don't know how you got it all backwards. Lebron was the triggered one and he made a fool of himself and stepped into the chit because of it.

i suggest you listen to both his statements again

while he does have financial interest in China (all nba players do via the BRI) he was most miffed by the lack of response by the nba in punishing Morey which he feels is a double standard that a if a player had caused such a problem there would have been a punishment

also the timing , putting out such a tweet right before Lebron , nba staff and 2 teams have to stay in China for a week was incredibly stupid , it put those people at risk of danger , to the point the Chinese govt. had to actually tell its people to calm down. before an international incident occurred

the best approximation I can think of is imagine being a muslim family on a public sight seeing tour in the US the month after 9/11...but all of the country knowing about it.

i assure you Lebron is more versed on the Chinese point of view of the issue than he would care to be ,which btw is very reasonable and the United States would almost certainly act similarly if the situation were reversed.

in addition Morey has clearly not been informed on the matter before the tweet because Chinese reaction was very predictable , the chinese media had been engaged in a propaganda campaign for months to turn sentiment against the protesters and it has been very successful.

So its not a matter Lebron not having respect for free speech , its actually quite the contrary , he is speaking from the prospective of someone who had to deal with the consequences of Morey's free speech as well as the others who went to China with him.