Preason Game #4 GT - Best In The World @ BKN - 7:30 ET TSN2

[MixxSRC]

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Everyone on the bench is on their feet and supporting... and then there's sour ass Stanley

What is this dude's problem?

Coach called him trash

[Boogie!]

Thanks for the research! I was too lazy.

Oh, and I didn't want to sell us short in another department either - we also have a stud impact star primary ballhandler on top of all that, too.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-players-of-the-last-6-seasons/?ex_cid=story-twitter

Best Players of the last 6yrs

1.Curry 9.5
2.Paul 9.1
3.Kawhi 8.1
4.Harden 7.8
(Jokic 7.5 - only played 3yrs)
5.Draymond 6.5
6.Lebron 6.3
7.Durant 6.0
8.George 5.6
9.Davis 5.4
10.Lowry 5.3

So funny how all those guys are considered superstars except Lowry who's apparently a fringe role player. Analysts suck.

its true, Lowry's been extremely underrated in general. but people don't watch enough of the Raptors to begin with. Not an american team, so they don't care. american analysts seem to be more focused on american teams - i'm sure if you freshly brough a whole cast of european analysts and replaced the american ones - Raptors and Lowry would have been one of the more talked teams in the last 4 years or so.

I agree that thyy dont watch the raptors but the point is DeMar got hyped way more than Lowry while he was here and then obviously last year everyone was on kawhis dick. The point is Lowry doesn't get enough credit period even by our own fanbase. The fact that we still have posters on here that don't think Lowry has hands down been our best player prior to kawhi is whats crazy.

[Boogie!]

I haven't read or watched any experts opinions on the NBA so far this year
other then stumbling upon Dennis Scott not picking us to make the playoffs and Sam Mitchell picking us 8th
with teams like Chicago and Atlanta ahead of us lol on NBA TV while flipping around.

Yeah I saw them both. Dennis said something like Toronto fans they need to show me first. We just won a championship. There are teams he picked over us who didn't even make the playoffs last year. I thought that was odd. Sam is on the one superstar and a bunch of solid role players message. Since we lost our superstar we're only a team of solid role players. However, Kyle is a perennial all-star. Siakam should make it. With a weak East either Gasol or Ibaka could make it. How many other teams could do that. Philly. Maybe Milwaukee. Maybe Boston. Possibly Detroit. That would put us around 4th - 5th which sounds about right. I wonder if Sam is trying too hard to not seem biased for us like he has in the past.

Yeah I'm also hearing some pundits say to not put to much stock into our 17-5 record without Kawhi? why? that's
a quarter of a season worth of data and we had quality wins with beating a completely healthy Golden State minus
Cousins (I think) on the road in a blow out as the cherry on top.

A lot of them still don't realize how good Siakam is despite how good he was in the playoffs and a lot of them still don't
get how good Lowry is because he isn't flashy making highlight plays on a regular basis. If they don't know that they
won't know about our young guys like OG, FVV, Terrence Davis etc.

It's funny because last season some those same guys were using the 17-5 to say kawhi wasnt that great. All idiots.

[Dennis 37]

Who that

Her identity is steeped in mystery. Pascal dares not have her anywhere around the team so that OG can't steal her away.

See, this is the kind of knowledge that makes a quality post and poster.

[SFour]

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You can tell in his expression at the end that he’s thinking if you could have Stanley’s Defence with Matt’s shooting you’d have a complete player.

you'd have another OG...3+D

[Dennis 37]

So funny how all those guys are considered superstars except Lowry who's apparently a fringe role player. Analysts suck.

its true, Lowry's been extremely underrated in general. but people don't watch enough of the Raptors to begin with. Not an american team, so they don't care. american analysts seem to be more focused on american teams - i'm sure if you freshly brough a whole cast of european analysts and replaced the american ones - Raptors and Lowry would have been one of the more talked teams in the last 4 years or so.

I agree that thyy dont watch the raptors but the point is DeMar got hyped way more than Lowry while he was here and then obviously last year everyone was on kawhis dick. The point is Lowry doesn't get enough credit period even by our own fanbase. The fact that we still have posters on here that don't think Lowry has hands down been our best player prior to kawhi is whats crazy.

Lowry deferred far too much to DeMar. If DeMar sucked, Lowry looked bad too. Lowry needed to look off DeMar and get other players going, but Casey wanted DeMar to be the man and get the shots.

Yes, Lowry was/is the key to the team.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Yeah I saw them both. Dennis said something like Toronto fans they need to show me first. We just won a championship. There are teams he picked over us who didn't even make the playoffs last year. I thought that was odd. Sam is on the one superstar and a bunch of solid role players message. Since we lost our superstar we're only a team of solid role players. However, Kyle is a perennial all-star. Siakam should make it. With a weak East either Gasol or Ibaka could make it. How many other teams could do that. Philly. Maybe Milwaukee. Maybe Boston. Possibly Detroit. That would put us around 4th - 5th which sounds about right. I wonder if Sam is trying too hard to not seem biased for us like he has in the past.

Yeah I'm also hearing some pundits say to not put to much stock into our 17-5 record without Kawhi? why? that's
a quarter of a season worth of data and we had quality wins with beating a completely healthy Golden State minus
Cousins (I think) on the road in a blow out as the cherry on top.

A lot of them still don't realize how good Siakam is despite how good he was in the playoffs and a lot of them still don't
get how good Lowry is because he isn't flashy making highlight plays on a regular basis. If they don't know that they
won't know about our young guys like OG, FVV, Terrence Davis etc.

It's funny because last season some those same guys were using the 17-5 to say kawhi wasnt that great. All idiots.

so true.

[scopy]

Caught some of the game, and while the ball movement was beautiful lets not forget that this style doesn't win in the playoffs. You need a dominant offensive player that can score in half-court sets, and Pascal hasn't shown he's there yet.

Now i'm not saying he won't develop into that as the year progresses, but if he doesn't, this is looking like one of those season where we win 50 odd games and struggle in the playoffs.

I remember Masai saying when he first came here that "making the playoffs was the easy part" and then something like making the finals or getting past the 2nd round was the hard part.

Well now he just figured out how to win a Championship, and did so in Canada which is even harder.

I agree that you need a Kawhi type player, ie. scoring in half court sets, being able to hit the 3 and defend, to win it all. Masai knows this better than anybody right now.

My guess is if they don't ship out the vets like Ibaka, Gasol and Lowry (cannot see them moving Lowry at all) then Masai might make a big move to try and get a player that gives them a chance to make the finals again. Otherwise, what's the point of keeping the aging vets here?

[billy_hoyle]

That's why the analysts piss me off. We were a 50 win team before kawhi got here and suddenly just because he's gone were not making the playoffs? Did they say the same about the spurs after Duncan retired? This is not the cavs who were lottery bound before LeBron re signed.

Honestly, this opinion pisses me off. We were a 50 win team before Kawhi and a 50 win team with Kawhi because we had all NBA wings on our team for the last half decade. We traded one, and lost the other to FA. That means we don't have an All-NBA calibre wing anymore.

That's what the analysts are making their projections on.

If Siakam fills that usage void and Lowry maintains his form, we will still be a good to great team, but you usually need a great wing to win 50+ in this league.

Let's see how the season plays out.

If you honestly think the raptors hvve a chance of missing the playoffs with the roster as constructed I will lump you in as one of the analysts who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I can guarantee the raptors are making the playoffs and am willing to bet a large sum of money on that idea alone. I am also willing to bet a slightly lesser amount that they wi be a top 5 seed. If you actually follow the team and understand basketball and the state of the other teams in the league and the east specifically, theres no need to take the "wait and see approach" when assessing this team's playoff chances. The only chance this team misses the playoffs is if a guy like Lowry or siakam misses a significant amount of time due to Injury.

You misunderstood my post. I don't think the Raps are missing the playoffs. I do think the 50 win mark is up for debate, and that analysts thinking we are a low to mid 40 win team (with the built in factor of us possibly trading the veterans) is reasonable.

Duncan retired and the Spurs filled his salary and roster void with an all star (LaMarcus Aldridge), who was better than end of career Duncan. Not to mention Kawhi was comung into his own (replaced by all-nba'er DeMar). Your argument was just garbage. There's no comparison between the Spurs and this year's Raptors.

A more apt comparison would be us and the Warriors minus KD & Klay, but + Russell. The analysts think they will be worse this year Despite being a 60 - 70 win team the last 5 years. Go figure. Does that also piss you off?

[Boogie!]

Honestly, this opinion pisses me off. We were a 50 win team before Kawhi and a 50 win team with Kawhi because we had all NBA wings on our team for the last half decade. We traded one, and lost the other to FA. That means we don't have an All-NBA calibre wing anymore.

That's what the analysts are making their projections on.

If Siakam fills that usage void and Lowry maintains his form, we will still be a good to great team, but you usually need a great wing to win 50+ in this league.

Let's see how the season plays out.

If you honestly think the raptors hvve a chance of missing the playoffs with the roster as constructed I will lump you in as one of the analysts who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I can guarantee the raptors are making the playoffs and am willing to bet a large sum of money on that idea alone. I am also willing to bet a slightly lesser amount that they wi be a top 5 seed. If you actually follow the team and understand basketball and the state of the other teams in the league and the east specifically, theres no need to take the "wait and see approach" when assessing this team's playoff chances. The only chance this team misses the playoffs is if a guy like Lowry or siakam misses a significant amount of time due to Injury.

You misunderstood my post. I don't think the Raps are missing the playoffs. I do think the 50 win mark is up for debate, and that analysts thinking we are a low to mid 40 win team (with the built in factor of us possibly trading the veterans) is reasonable.

Duncan retired and the Spurs filled his salary and roster void with an all star (LaMarcus Aldridge), who was better than end of career Duncan. Not to mention Kawhi was comung into his own (replaced by all-nba'er DeMar). Your argument was just garbage. There's no comparison between the Spurs and this year's Raptors.

A more apt comparison would be us and the Warriors minus KD & Klay, but + Russell. The analysts think they will be worse this year Despite being a 60 - 70 win team the last 5 years. Go figure. Does that also piss you off?

The warriors lost iggy, Shaun Livingston, and basically replaced all their role playing depth with scrubs.

Siakam is due to take a big leap, Lowry is still Lowry and we still have gasol ibaka fvv and norm all from the championship core. The warriors comparison makes absolutely no sense. If we had replaced norm fvv and Ibaka with g leaguers, while keeping our starting lineup, that would be a more apt comparison to the warriors. Not to mention, it's not that the analysts think they'd be worse, prior to the start of the season some of them even said they'd still make the playoffs in the west. Meanwhile a lot of them have us as a fringe playoff chance in the east.

Somehow you're still trying to prove there's doubt when there isn't any. The analysts are all wrong. They've been wrong for years. Can't believe you're trying to suggest that I'm upset that people think "the raptors will be worse." that's clearly not my argument. No **** they'll be worse. My argument is that people somehow think they can miss the playoffs in the east. They have the Celtics as a top 3 seed when the Celtics are far less talented than the raptors.

It's odd you use the LaMarcus to Duncan comparison when that's essentially the kawhi to siakam talent drop. And Lowry has consistently been a top 10 impact player his entire tenure here. Ther is absolutely no doubt that the raptors are a playoff team and a top 5 seed in the eas on talent alone. If you're an analyst getting paid to assess basketball this is obvious. If you think the raptors are missing the playoffs you shouldn't be paid to talk basketball. And if you personally think the raltors are making the playoffs than I have no idea how you're defending the notion that it's possible they don't. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's you that misunderstood, otherwise I have no idea why you're arguing with me.

[billy_hoyle]

If you honestly think the raptors hvve a chance of missing the playoffs with the roster as constructed I will lump you in as one of the analysts who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I can guarantee the raptors are making the playoffs and am willing to bet a large sum of money on that idea alone. I am also willing to bet a slightly lesser amount that they wi be a top 5 seed. If you actually follow the team and understand basketball and the state of the other teams in the league and the east specifically, theres no need to take the "wait and see approach" when assessing this team's playoff chances. The only chance this team misses the playoffs is if a guy like Lowry or siakam misses a significant amount of time due to Injury.

You misunderstood my post. I don't think the Raps are missing the playoffs. I do think the 50 win mark is up for debate, and that analysts thinking we are a low to mid 40 win team (with the built in factor of us possibly trading the veterans) is reasonable.

Duncan retired and the Spurs filled his salary and roster void with an all star (LaMarcus Aldridge), who was better than end of career Duncan. Not to mention Kawhi was comung into his own (replaced by all-nba'er DeMar). Your argument was just garbage. There's no comparison between the Spurs and this year's Raptors.

A more apt comparison would be us and the Warriors minus KD & Klay, but + Russell. The analysts think they will be worse this year Despite being a 60 - 70 win team the last 5 years. Go figure. Does that also piss you off?

The warriors lost iggy, Shaun Livingston, and basically replaced all their role playing depth with scrubs.

Siakam is due to take a big leap, Lowry is still Lowry and we still have gasol ibaka fvv and norm all from the championship core. The warriors comparison makes absolutely no sense. If we had replaced norm fvv and Ibaka with g leaguers, while keeping our starting lineup, that would be a more apt comparison to the warriors. Not to mention, it's not that the analysts think they'd be worse, prior to the start of the season some of them even said they'd still make the playoffs in the west. Meanwhile a lot of them have us as a fringe playoff chance in the east.

Somehow you're still trying to prove there's doubt when there isn't any. The analysts are all wrong. They've been wrong for years. Can't believe you're trying to suggest that I'm upset that people think "the raptors will be worse." that's clearly not my argument. No **** they'll be worse. My argument is that people somehow think they can miss the playoffs in the east. They have the Celtics as a top 3 seed when the Celtics are far less talented than the raptors.

It's odd you use the LaMarcus to Duncan comparison when that's essentially the kawhi to siakam talent drop. And Lowry has consistently been a top 10 impact player his entire tenure here. Ther is absolutely no doubt that the raptors are a playoff team and a top 5 seed in the eas on talent alone. If you're an analyst getting paid to assess basketball this is obvious. If you think the raptors are missing the playoffs you shouldn't be paid to talk basketball. And if you personally think the raltors are making the playoffs than I have no idea how you're defending the notion that it's possible they don't. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's you that misunderstood, otherwise I have no idea why you're arguing with me.

Appears we just disagree and rate talent differently. Examples:

Duncan the year prior to his retirement was much worse than the prime LaMarcus that took his place. (By the way, I don't see how this is 'odd', you brought up the Spurs situation, I just used it to show your stance makes no logical sense - again that's IMO).

Kawhi last year (best player in the league IMO) is better than Pascal this year. You concede this fact. Therefore the Spurs are more likely to improve or stay afloat in comparison to the raps(who downgraded their primary option).

Shaun Livingston and Iggy were absolute scrubs last year from my limited viewing. SL retired b/c he was so washed.

The GSW are worse because they lost KD and Klay and replaced them with Russell. Full stop.

We will be worse this year because we lost Kawhi and Danny Green and replaced them with Stanley Johnson and RHJ. Full Stop. OG with a big Jump will clearly mitigate this loss by more than most predictions anticipated.

We will likely not win 50 games. It's ok if we don't, we took a massive hit in FA.

I seriously don't get why you are 'pissed off' about the projections.

I hope we win 55+. It wouldn't shock me to see us fighting for the playoffs.

We shall see if the analysts are right. Like you said they haven't been in previous years.

[Boogie!]

You misunderstood my post. I don't think the Raps are missing the playoffs. I do think the 50 win mark is up for debate, and that analysts thinking we are a low to mid 40 win team (with the built in factor of us possibly trading the veterans) is reasonable.

Duncan retired and the Spurs filled his salary and roster void with an all star (LaMarcus Aldridge), who was better than end of career Duncan. Not to mention Kawhi was comung into his own (replaced by all-nba'er DeMar). Your argument was just garbage. There's no comparison between the Spurs and this year's Raptors.

A more apt comparison would be us and the Warriors minus KD & Klay, but + Russell. The analysts think they will be worse this year Despite being a 60 - 70 win team the last 5 years. Go figure. Does that also piss you off?

The warriors lost iggy, Shaun Livingston, and basically replaced all their role playing depth with scrubs.

Siakam is due to take a big leap, Lowry is still Lowry and we still have gasol ibaka fvv and norm all from the championship core. The warriors comparison makes absolutely no sense. If we had replaced norm fvv and Ibaka with g leaguers, while keeping our starting lineup, that would be a more apt comparison to the warriors. Not to mention, it's not that the analysts think they'd be worse, prior to the start of the season some of them even said they'd still make the playoffs in the west. Meanwhile a lot of them have us as a fringe playoff chance in the east.

Somehow you're still trying to prove there's doubt when there isn't any. The analysts are all wrong. They've been wrong for years. Can't believe you're trying to suggest that I'm upset that people think "the raptors will be worse." that's clearly not my argument. No **** they'll be worse. My argument is that people somehow think they can miss the playoffs in the east. They have the Celtics as a top 3 seed when the Celtics are far less talented than the raptors.

It's odd you use the LaMarcus to Duncan comparison when that's essentially the kawhi to siakam talent drop. And Lowry has consistently been a top 10 impact player his entire tenure here. Ther is absolutely no doubt that the raptors are a playoff team and a top 5 seed in the eas on talent alone. If you're an analyst getting paid to assess basketball this is obvious. If you think the raptors are missing the playoffs you shouldn't be paid to talk basketball. And if you personally think the raltors are making the playoffs than I have no idea how you're defending the notion that it's possible they don't. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's you that misunderstood, otherwise I have no idea why you're arguing with me.

Appears we just disagree and rate talent differently. Examples:

Duncan the year prior to his retirement was much worse than the prime LaMarcus that took his place. (By the way, I don't see how this is 'odd', you brought up the Spurs situation, I just used it to show your stance makes no logical sense - again that's IMO).

Kawhi last year (best player in the league IMO) is better than Pascal this year. You concede this fact. Therefore the Spurs are more likely to improve or stay afloat in comparison to the raps(who downgraded their primary option).

Shaun Livingston and Iggy were absolute scrubs last year from my limited viewing. SL retired b/c he was so washed.

The GSW are worse because they lost KD and Klay and replaced them with Russell. Full stop.

We will be worse this year because we lost Kawhi and Danny Green and replaced them with Stanley Johnson and RHJ. Full Stop. OG with a big Jump will clearly mitigate this loss by more than most predictions anticipated.

We will likely not win 50 games. It's ok if we don't, we took a massive hit in FA.

I seriously don't get why you are 'pissed off' about the projections.

I hope we win 55+. It wouldn't shock me to see us fighting for the playoffs.

We shall see if the analysts are right. Like you said they haven't been in previous years.

I'll keep it simple this time since it seems you're still misunderstanding.

The raptors are a lock for the playoffs barring long term Injuries to siakam or Lowry.

There are not 8 teams in the east better than them. This should be obvious to anyone that understands the state of the east and the talent level of the Raptors. As someone who gets paid to watch and assess basketball, if you have a team like the pistons ahead of the Raptors you suck at your job. Idk why you keep making this about win totals.

The I'm pissed off comments refer to the fact that media continues to suck at their job and get away with it. Again if you somehow think that our playoff chances are in doubt in the east, your talent assessment is off.

[billy_hoyle]

The warriors lost iggy, Shaun Livingston, and basically replaced all their role playing depth with scrubs.

Siakam is due to take a big leap, Lowry is still Lowry and we still have gasol ibaka fvv and norm all from the championship core. The warriors comparison makes absolutely no sense. If we had replaced norm fvv and Ibaka with g leaguers, while keeping our starting lineup, that would be a more apt comparison to the warriors. Not to mention, it's not that the analysts think they'd be worse, prior to the start of the season some of them even said they'd still make the playoffs in the west. Meanwhile a lot of them have us as a fringe playoff chance in the east.

Somehow you're still trying to prove there's doubt when there isn't any. The analysts are all wrong. They've been wrong for years. Can't believe you're trying to suggest that I'm upset that people think "the raptors will be worse." that's clearly not my argument. No **** they'll be worse. My argument is that people somehow think they can miss the playoffs in the east. They have the Celtics as a top 3 seed when the Celtics are far less talented than the raptors.

It's odd you use the LaMarcus to Duncan comparison when that's essentially the kawhi to siakam talent drop. And Lowry has consistently been a top 10 impact player his entire tenure here. Ther is absolutely no doubt that the raptors are a playoff team and a top 5 seed in the eas on talent alone. If you're an analyst getting paid to assess basketball this is obvious. If you think the raptors are missing the playoffs you shouldn't be paid to talk basketball. And if you personally think the raltors are making the playoffs than I have no idea how you're defending the notion that it's possible they don't. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's you that misunderstood, otherwise I have no idea why you're arguing with me.

Appears we just disagree and rate talent differently. Examples:

Duncan the year prior to his retirement was much worse than the prime LaMarcus that took his place. (By the way, I don't see how this is 'odd', you brought up the Spurs situation, I just used it to show your stance makes no logical sense - again that's IMO).

Kawhi last year (best player in the league IMO) is better than Pascal this year. You concede this fact. Therefore the Spurs are more likely to improve or stay afloat in comparison to the raps(who downgraded their primary option).

Shaun Livingston and Iggy were absolute scrubs last year from my limited viewing. SL retired b/c he was so washed.

The GSW are worse because they lost KD and Klay and replaced them with Russell. Full stop.

We will be worse this year because we lost Kawhi and Danny Green and replaced them with Stanley Johnson and RHJ. Full Stop. OG with a big Jump will clearly mitigate this loss by more than most predictions anticipated.

We will likely not win 50 games. It's ok if we don't, we took a massive hit in FA.

I seriously don't get why you are 'pissed off' about the projections.

I hope we win 55+. It wouldn't shock me to see us fighting for the playoffs.

We shall see if the analysts are right. Like you said they haven't been in previous years.

I'll keep it simple this time since it seems you're still misunderstanding.

The raptors are a lock for the playoffs barring long term Injuries to siakam or Lowry.

There are not 8 teams in the east better than them. This should be obvious to anyone that understands the state of the east and the talent level of the Raptors. As someone who gets paid to watch and assess basketball, if you have a team like the pistons ahead of the Raptors you suck at your job. Idk why you keep making this about win totals.

The I'm pissed off comments refer to the fact that media continues to suck at their job and get away with it. Again if you somehow think that our playoff chances are in doubt in the east, your talent assessment is off.

I appreciate you keeping it simple. I find it difficult to follow your logic when you attempt to write anything complex.