2020 Draft Thread

[Coxy]

Again, I disagree with pretty much everything you say.

I see no reason why Wiseman isn't going to be a force in the paint, perfect for what we need around the core 3 guys as they age. I see no reason why he can't be a KAT type. The only thing that is stopping him, is the fight in the dog as Mylie points out. You talk about us finding an inside presence anywhere in the draft, well I'm not talking about finding the next Kyle O'Quinn or Alex Len here dude. I'm talking about drafting a guy, that within the Warriors org next to our top hall of famers, will grow into a monster, because he has that potential.

I also don't know how you can just say that he isn't this or that right now. What have you seen in his 1st 2 college games, that says he's NOT what everyone else thinks he can be? You seem to be out on your own lake with this take fishing for something that isn;t there. His defensive timing in those games was amazing, he was chasing shots and looked great as a weakside help defender. He showed tools other than just put back dunks and lobs. He put the ball on the floor at times and finished with aplomb in a variety of ways. He has a great shooting stroke for a lefty, very smooth, and hit FT's like a prime Mark Price. Even if he doesn't end up the love child of Wilt and Shaq, playing on our team next to guys that will bring the very very best out of his super athletic body, with no pressure to be a KAT or Embiid, he would be perfect.

There's also that little factor of the Draymond Green effect. Dray creates so many looks for bigs inside, and also would be immense in helping Wiseman quickly get acclimated to the defensive responsibilites needed in the league. The Green effect on a young big with a good, hungry attitiude can't be underestimated.

Again, use Dlo to find a wing.

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

I think what Clyde is saying (because I brought up the same point to him earlier) isn't that Wiseman isn't a talented player but that he doesn't think for what his archetype is that there is a need to draft him to do those things if he can be flipped for a team need and that same role can be filled by say an Okongwu from USC a Jalen Smith from Maryland or Charles Bassey from Western Kentucky.

In all fairness you guys don't really need a post presence with the talent you have and the system being what it is so I can understand why one would feel like that player type is passable if you aren't even looking to develop or use him in these myriad of ways you may think he can improve.

Don't know how yall felt about it around here but Boogie was light years ahead of every other center yall had during the run but he appeared to throw off so much of the fluidity that you guys played with offensively and i think that's more to do with his talent and player type being more than what you guys actually needed from that spot. I feel like (and as always please correct me if i'm wrong) Clyde is looking at from that way as well. If Wiseman isn't an Embiid/KAT/KP right now, do you really need to develop that with how you guys currently get your points and run your system when healthy. And, if Wiseman is only going to be used to rimrun, grab boards, set picks, and block shots could you find someone else to do those same things and flip a potential Wiseman draft slot for the void left from losing a KD and Iggy which looks like a position of need for the team and how that system flourishes.

Forget how Boogie looked, he's the exact opposite of a young, bouncy, athletic above the rim type player like Wiseman.

Think back to when the Warriors had Bogut. Whilst he wasn't exactly what Wiseman projects to be, is was more of a defensive, screen setting, shot changing/blocking guy that could pass and finish with authority when set up. That's when the Warriors were at their very best to the tune of 73 wins. That type of player unlocks Steph and Klays very very best along side Green. Durant was a luxury, disregard. Iggy and Bogut are the real losses for the Warriors, with Bogut being the main loss.

Right now, if you asked me if I wanted a young Iggy or Bogut back on this team, I'm taking Bogut 10/10 times.

[Marcus]

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

I think what Clyde is saying (because I brought up the same point to him earlier) isn't that Wiseman isn't a talented player but that he doesn't think for what his archetype is that there is a need to draft him to do those things if he can be flipped for a team need and that same role can be filled by say an Okongwu from USC a Jalen Smith from Maryland or Charles Bassey from Western Kentucky.

In all fairness you guys don't really need a post presence with the talent you have and the system being what it is so I can understand why one would feel like that player type is passable if you aren't even looking to develop or use him in these myriad of ways you may think he can improve.

Don't know how yall felt about it around here but Boogie was light years ahead of every other center yall had during the run but he appeared to throw off so much of the fluidity that you guys played with offensively and i think that's more to do with his talent and player type being more than what you guys actually needed from that spot. I feel like (and as always please correct me if i'm wrong) Clyde is looking at from that way as well. If Wiseman isn't an Embiid/KAT/KP right now, do you really need to develop that with how you guys currently get your points and run your system when healthy. And, if Wiseman is only going to be used to rimrun, grab boards, set picks, and block shots could you find someone else to do those same things and flip a potential Wiseman draft slot for the void left from losing a KD and Iggy which looks like a position of need for the team and how that system flourishes.

Forget how Boogie looked, he's the exact opposite of a young, bouncy, athletic above the rim type player like Wiseman.

Think back to when the Warriors had Bogut. Whilst he wasn't exactly what Wiseman projects to be, is was more of a defensive, screen setting, shot changing/blocking guy that could pass and finish with authority when set up. That's when the Warriors were at their very best to the tune of 73 wins. That type of player unlocks Steph and Klays very very best along side Green. Durant was a luxury, disregard. Iggy and Bogut are the real losses for the Warriors, with Bogut being the main loss.

Right now, if you asked me if I wanted a young Iggy or Bogut back on this team, I'm taking Bogut 10/10 times.

and i think Clyde is saying do you need to spend a top 5 on that if you can get that ANNNNNDDD a replacement for Iggy by flipping it.

[clyde21]

You seem to be hung up on a big man needing to have a top all round offensive game, like Embiid or KAT. We don't need that, nor should we want that, as they NEED the ball, and we want the ball in Steph, Klay and Dray's hands 90% of the time anyway.

Let me ask you this, how do you think Drummond, or Gobert for example, would have done over the past 3-4 seasons on our team at C next to Klay, Steph, Dray? Both of thes guys aren't meant to be 1 or 2 options on offense, they are what they are, defensive, intimidation type players that thrive on offense around guys that create for them. Think Ben Wallace next to Billups, Rip and Sheed. When these types of players aren't relied on to create offense and have it run through them, they can concentrate on dominating the other aspects of the big man game, which is defense, rebounding, screeen setting, ball movement on offense, lobs, offensive boards,, chasing shots, clogging lanes. That role is the most underated in the league, and creates the environment for our flashy guys, particularly Steph, to be unleashed to full effect.

When we had Bogut, and Javale at times as well, we got so many quick easy lobs from the spacing that Steph and Klay drew away from the paint. Green just fed Bogez and Javale all the time, because teams have to stay out on our guys, so on offense with our core, an athletic big man just feasts on dunks. Then on D, they intiidate, and with the help of Green get stops for us to run and bombs away here we come.

Anyway, obvious we disagree on the point, which may end up moot anyway if Wise doesn't drop to us. On with the tank.

i know we don't need that, that's why I'm saying we don't need Wiseman. ideally speaking the only time you should take a C top5 in today's NBA is if he can be an elite defensive anchor (Gobert), and elite offensive anchor (KAT), or a combination of the both (Embiid)...Wiseman archetype is more on the Drummond/Ayton spectrum.

and I don't really understand the point of your question...yea if we had a Drummond we'd still be great...what's your point? you can ask the same thing about any top combo forward or top wing as well...what if we had a Paul George or a Jimmy Butler the last 5 years with Steph Dray and Klay? speaking from an archetype standpoint, would you rather have Drummond or Butler the next 5 years? if you're picking Drummond then we differ philosophically and there's no point in continuing the convo.

You threw out there suggesting that because Drummond hasn't led his team into deep playoff runs that he isn't a top player. I disagree, and believe that team context matters, and if Drummond were on the Warriors we'd barely lose a game.

I think we just disagree with Wiseman's trajectory at this point, as I see no reason he can't be an elite defensive presense with an offensive game to boot.

I'm not sure what elite wingman you think there would be in this draft worthy of trading out of the Wiseman draft slot that would help us win straight away either. I'd rather trade Dlo for said player, or try for a good SF signing with the MLE or trade exeption usage.

i mean, what's top player? is Drummond a top 15 guy to you? top 20? and Drummond is a 20/20 every other night guy, will go down as one of the GOAT rebounders ever, if not THE greatest of this generation...so even if Wiseman turns into the GOAT rebounder and a consistent 20/13 guy like Drummond ...we're still gonna be sitting here wondering what his real impact is really...that's exactly why you don't take a guy like that top5, that's exactly why in a 2018 redraft Ayton might not even go top5 already.

and you're right about this class, not a lot of elite wing guys, I already said as much, and a lot of this convo depends a lot on a number of variables like where we're picking, who's available, what trade options do we have etc, so it's hard to say...conceptually speaking tho I'll take the wing archetype over the Wiseman archetype for this team 10/10 as long as there is a wing there I like.

for now, I'd rather trade down to like say...10th overall, take Scottie Lewis and pick up either another pick i 2021 or another rotational guy that can contribute right away.

[Marcus]

what are your thoughts on someone like Nnaji for the roster?

[clyde21]

i never said he can't be a force in the paint...i said he's really good for what his archetype is, right now he's nothing more than lob/put-back/rim-runner...he's elite at these things, but he's not a guy that you can run the offense through because he has no semblance if an inside-out game at this point and he's not a footwork/post-up guy (at this point, could change).

KAT is much, much, much more refined offensively and it wasn't all that close, KAT can put the ball on floor, had a multi-level offensive game that expanded beyond the paint, and was actually a ++ defender on top of it as a prospect.

and yea, sure, he'll be a HoF the same way a guy like Andre Drummond is a HoF, fine, where exactly has that brought the Pistons in today's NBA? dude can barely get them into the playoffs because his archetype inherently is not that impactful.

i'm not disputing the talent, I'm disputing the archetype and our need to spend a top5 pick on it.

we just have different approaches and philosophies to team building, it's fine.

I think what Clyde is saying (because I brought up the same point to him earlier) isn't that Wiseman isn't a talented player but that he doesn't think for what his archetype is that there is a need to draft him to do those things if he can be flipped for a team need and that same role can be filled by say an Okongwu from USC a Jalen Smith from Maryland or Charles Bassey from Western Kentucky.

In all fairness you guys don't really need a post presence with the talent you have and the system being what it is so I can understand why one would feel like that player type is passable if you aren't even looking to develop or use him in these myriad of ways you may think he can improve.

Don't know how yall felt about it around here but Boogie was light years ahead of every other center yall had during the run but he appeared to throw off so much of the fluidity that you guys played with offensively and i think that's more to do with his talent and player type being more than what you guys actually needed from that spot. I feel like (and as always please correct me if i'm wrong) Clyde is looking at from that way as well. If Wiseman isn't an Embiid/KAT/KP right now, do you really need to develop that with how you guys currently get your points and run your system when healthy. And, if Wiseman is only going to be used to rimrun, grab boards, set picks, and block shots could you find someone else to do those same things and flip a potential Wiseman draft slot for the void left from losing a KD and Iggy which looks like a position of need for the team and how that system flourishes.

Forget how Boogie looked, he's the exact opposite of a young, bouncy, athletic above the rim type player like Wiseman.

Think back to when the Warriors had Bogut. Whilst he wasn't exactly what Wiseman projects to be, is was more of a defensive, screen setting, shot changing/blocking guy that could pass and finish with authority when set up. That's when the Warriors were at their very best to the tune of 73 wins. That type of player unlocks Steph and Klays very very best along side Green. Durant was a luxury, disregard. Iggy and Bogut are the real losses for the Warriors, with Bogut being the main loss.

Right now, if you asked me if I wanted a young Iggy or Bogut back on this team, I'm taking Bogut 10/10 times.

what? you would take a young Boges over a young Iggy for this team?

[clyde21]

what are your thoughts on someone like Nnaji for the roster?

i like Nnaji, need to see more, and need to see how high he's actually going to go

but our #1 priority right now should be wings and combo forwards (and even combo guards) unless a generational guy at another position hits us in the face.

[Mylie10]

I think what Clyde is saying (because I brought up the same point to him earlier) isn't that Wiseman isn't a talented player but that he doesn't think for what his archetype is that there is a need to draft him to do those things if he can be flipped for a team need and that same role can be filled by say an Okongwu from USC a Jalen Smith from Maryland or Charles Bassey from Western Kentucky.

In all fairness you guys don't really need a post presence with the talent you have and the system being what it is so I can understand why one would feel like that player type is passable if you aren't even looking to develop or use him in these myriad of ways you may think he can improve.

Don't know how yall felt about it around here but Boogie was light years ahead of every other center yall had during the run but he appeared to throw off so much of the fluidity that you guys played with offensively and i think that's more to do with his talent and player type being more than what you guys actually needed from that spot. I feel like (and as always please correct me if i'm wrong) Clyde is looking at from that way as well. If Wiseman isn't an Embiid/KAT/KP right now, do you really need to develop that with how you guys currently get your points and run your system when healthy. And, if Wiseman is only going to be used to rimrun, grab boards, set picks, and block shots could you find someone else to do those same things and flip a potential Wiseman draft slot for the void left from losing a KD and Iggy which looks like a position of need for the team and how that system flourishes.

Forget how Boogie looked, he's the exact opposite of a young, bouncy, athletic above the rim type player like Wiseman.

Think back to when the Warriors had Bogut. Whilst he wasn't exactly what Wiseman projects to be, is was more of a defensive, screen setting, shot changing/blocking guy that could pass and finish with authority when set up. That's when the Warriors were at their very best to the tune of 73 wins. That type of player unlocks Steph and Klays very very best along side Green. Durant was a luxury, disregard. Iggy and Bogut are the real losses for the Warriors, with Bogut being the main loss.

Right now, if you asked me if I wanted a young Iggy or Bogut back on this team, I'm taking Bogut 10/10 times.

what? you would take a young Boges over a young Iggy for this team?

Young Iggy was my pick last year. Thybulle is the only guy even close to who Iggy is.

[Onus]

If you could have any archetype of player to add to our core what would it be?

[clyde21]

If you could have any archetype of player to add to our core what would it be?

wing wing and then wing...in today's nba you need at least 3 functional wings on a roster.

[Coxy]

If you could have any archetype of player to add to our core what would it be?

Boss defensive C that sets the best screens in the NBA.

[clyde21]

If you could have any archetype of player to add to our core what would it be?

Boss defensive C that sets the best screens in the NBA.

that's not Wiseman tho? lol

dude is known for his offense/rebounding, not defense or screen setting...it's like we're talking about two different players lol

[clyde21]

i'd rather trade down, pick up an extra pick, and take Scottie Lewis and Oscar Tshiebwe

you want a defensive stud that'll set screen? i present u Oscar

Read on Twitter

i'd rather take Oscar at 14 than Wiseman at 1.

[Mylie10]

Okoro for Auburn has an Iguodala calling card. He can guard anyone practically.

[DAWill1128]

If we miss on Wiseman I almost wonder if trading the pick for Mo Bamba makes sense, guys got a 7-10 wingspan and top 5 bpg per 36. Bamba has game changing shot blocking ability, he is just stuck behind an all-star at this point.

[azwfan]

If we miss on Wiseman I almost wonder if trading the pick for Mo Bamba makes sense, guys got a 7-10 wingspan and top 5 bpg per 36. Bamba has game changing shot blocking ability, he is just stuck behind an all-star at this point.

If we're at #3 and Wiseman goes 1 or 2. Then I'd be okay with trading down with Orlando (assuming Orlando is around 10 with us getting Bamba as part of the incentive. Orlando has a number of players i think would be attractive to us.

Gordon, Isaac, Bamba... even Okeke who is red-shirting would have some value to us.

[Coxy]

i'd rather trade down, pick up an extra pick, and take Scottie Lewis and Oscar Tshiebwe

you want a defensive stud that'll set screen? i present u Oscar

Read on Twitter

i'd rather take Oscar at 14 than Wiseman at 1.

You serious? That's the 1st I've seen of that dude, but he looks like Danny Fortson. If you'd rather trade down and take him, rather than draft Wiseman, I'll thank our lucky stars you aren't anywhere near our front office.

[azwfan]

i'd rather trade down, pick up an extra pick, and take Scottie Lewis and Oscar Tshiebwe

you want a defensive stud that'll set screen? i present u Oscar

Read on Twitter

i'd rather take Oscar at 14 than Wiseman at 1.

You serious? That's the 1st I've seen of that dude, but he looks like Danny Fortson. If you'd rather trade down and take him, rather than draft Wiseman, I'll thank our lucky stars you aren't anywhere near our front office.

I guess it depends on what we're getting for trading down.

[The-Power]

If you could have any archetype of player to add to our core what would it be?

Boss defensive C that sets the best screens in the NBA.

that's not Wiseman tho? lol

dude is known for his offense/rebounding, not defense or screen setting...it's like we're talking about two different players lol

Known by whom? I have watched HS games and he has always been about defense first. He always talks about defense first, saying in HS already that he loves studying Bogut. He is NOT DeAndre Ayton in this regard; not at all and I think you're missing his archetype when you put him in the same category as Ayton (who was a bit more natural on offense but couldn't touch Wiseman's inside presence and ability to alter shots all over the court). Whether you see him as an elite defender or not, it was always first and foremost about defense with him. He wants to be a defensive beast, he tries and in his body he has been effective. And if you go back and watch the college games thus far, he has set some of the best screens I've seen this year. You could see that it was definitely a point of emphasis for him.

[clyde21]

i'd rather trade down, pick up an extra pick, and take Scottie Lewis and Oscar Tshiebwe

you want a defensive stud that'll set screen? i present u Oscar

Read on Twitter

i'd rather take Oscar at 14 than Wiseman at 1.

You serious? That's the 1st I've seen of that dude, but he looks like Danny Fortson. If you'd rather trade down and take him, rather than draft Wiseman, I'll thank our lucky stars you aren't anywhere near our front office.

Oscar was a 5 start recruit and a top20 guy in the same class as Wiseman

and yes, i'd rather trade down, pick up an extra 1st and take a combo of Scottie/Oscar over staying put at 1 and taking Wiseman.

[clyde21]

Boss defensive C that sets the best screens in the NBA.

that's not Wiseman tho? lol

dude is known for his offense/rebounding, not defense or screen setting...it's like we're talking about two different players lol

Known by whom? I have watched HS games and he has always been about defense first. He always talks about defense first, saying in HS already that he loves studying Bogut. He is NOT DeAndre Ayton in this regard; not at all and I think you're missing his archetype when you put him in the same category as Ayton (who was a bit more natural on offense but couldn't touch Wiseman's inside presence and ability to alter shots all over the court). Whether you see him as an elite defender or not, it was always first and foremost about defense with him. He wants to be a defensive beast, he tries and in his body he has been effective. And if you go back and watch the college games thus far, he has set some of the best screens I've seen this year. You could see that it was definitely a point of emphasis for him.

known by anyone, he's doesn't project as a defensive anchor at all in the NBA, doesn't have quick feet, lateral movement is meh, hips are tight, doesn't have elite shot blocking instincts...he'll be a plus defender because of his size/motor decent baseline athleticism and overall basketball instincts but he's not seen as a defensive guy at all, not even close defensively to a guy like Tshiebwe for example.

i don't see him being a better defender in the NBA than say an Andre Drummond...and he's def in that Ayton archetype offensively in that he needs creators around him, but actually Ayton had even more of a mid range game than Wiseman has today.