The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread

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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#141 » by Heej » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:35 pm

MisterHibachi wrote:
Heej wrote:
kayess wrote:So it might be too early but...

On O, guy is basically a LeBron comp (except nowhere as good attacking the rim as young Bron due to his non-existent burst, but gets young Bron calls anyway when he tries to dribble to the rim). His D is never going to be as good as Bron's but his jumper is waaaaay ahead of him.

Does that not project to a GOAT ceiling? What am I missing here? [Apologies; haven't really had time to watch Luka so will gladly be proven wrong]

Sounds insane to say but a Lebron minus athleticism plus shooting handles and IQ really might project to that ceiling. At least on offense he might end up the GOAT offensive player. His defense really is gonna depend on his motor. He clearly has a great motor to be doing what he's doing but he's gonna have to increase that to ridiculous levels to make up the defensive gap imo.

I don't think his help defense is as special as Bird's was, which I'm thinking will have to be the minimum for Luka to reach GOAT ceiling. He also doesn't seem to have crazy good hands like Bird but we shall see. I'm slightly worried teams will go at him like Curry in the playoffs and he won't be able to hold up the way Curry (who's perpetually underrated on defense) was able to. He may need a special team of defenders around him. Bird looked like a far superior athlete at his peak compared to Luka imo which helped him a lot and I think people discounted that about him.


By plus IQ are you saying you think Doncic has a better BBIQ than LeBron?

As for defense, I think his size already gives him a higher ceiling than Curry, and if his rebounding is for real, he could be a Dirk type positive defender by virtue of his defensive rebounding.

At the same point in their careers, I think he honestly does. And part of it is him growing up in the LeBron era and watching him make all those next level reads. By the end of their careers? It remains to be seen. LeBron is going to accumulate the most on-court experience ever in high leverage moments.

If Luka can come anywhere close to that in terms of multiple deep playoff runs I think he has a good chance at surpassing Bron in that regard. He has a massive head start due to his professional experience in high level games from such a young age. I don't think it's a given he'll be able to take care of his body to the extent necessary though. LeBron's a freak in that regard due to his legendarily neurotic OCD.

If Luka's able to display the same type of athleticism retention as LeBron (albeit retaining less due to starting with less) AND can have multiple finals trips in his pocket I don't see why he can't have a 2017 or 18 type year where it all comes together and he's basically god mode unstoppable that year.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#142 » by reycat » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:48 pm

Sublime187 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks it is too early to say he has GOAT potential? I mean he has looked great so far but teams will also start to figure things out on him as he adapts his game. How well does he perform in the playoffs when teams will focus on him?


Of course nobody can see the future. But we can have a look at the past.

In Europe you have several national leagues, and Luka played in Spain's ACB for Real Madrid.

Besides that, top teams play an European league, the Euroleague (surprising name). This is actually the "second best league in the world", with ACB being one of the candidates for third spot.

In 2016-2017 Real Madrid had the regular season MVP in both competitions, Sergio Llull.

They were runner ups in ACB and lost in semi-finals in Euroleague.

And before the start of the 2017-2018 season, Llull got injured and was scheduled to miss 6 to 9 months. It certainly meant that Real Madrid was out of contention.

Well, let's see what happened.

2018 ACB Champion. Real Madrid
2018 ACB Regular Season MVP. Luka Dončić

2018 Euroleague Champion. Real Madrid
2018 Euroleague MVP. Luka Dončić
2018 Euroleague Finals MVP. Luka Dončić

So, we don't know how Luka is going to perform in the NBA playoffs. But we know that he thrived under pressure as a teenager against the harder competition you can find outside the NBA while being the focal point of offense in his team. That bodes well for the future.

Edit: This is what I was talking about.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1911417&start=80#p79836903
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#143 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:53 pm

kayess wrote:So it might be too early but...

On O, guy is basically a LeBron comp (except nowhere as good attacking the rim as young Bron due to his non-existent burst, but gets young Bron calls anyway when he tries to dribble to the rim). His D is never going to be as good as Bron's but his jumper is waaaaay ahead of him.

Does that not project to a GOAT ceiling? What am I missing here? [Apologies; haven't really had time to watch Luka so will gladly be proven wrong]



How is he nowhere as good as attacking the rim at young Bron? He attacks in a different manner, but he's in fact even more effective. To quote myself from earlier in the thread...


"3. His finishing ability. He's currently 5th in the NBA in drives. His FG% on drives is 69%. The next highest FG% on drives of anyone in top top 10 is Brogdan at 56%! That's insane. He's 13% better on drives than anyone comparable. Harden and LeBron are 55%. Kyrie 49%. Kawahi 48%. His ability to get in the paint and shoot that little floater has been unreal."
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#144 » by kayess » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:48 am

TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
kayess wrote:So it might be too early but...

On O, guy is basically a LeBron comp (except nowhere as good attacking the rim as young Bron due to his non-existent burst, but gets young Bron calls anyway when he tries to dribble to the rim). His D is never going to be as good as Bron's but his jumper is waaaaay ahead of him.

Does that not project to a GOAT ceiling? What am I missing here? [Apologies; haven't really had time to watch Luka so will gladly be proven wrong]



How is he nowhere as good as attacking the rim at young Bron? He attacks in a different manner, but he's in fact even more effective. To quote myself from earlier in the thread...


"3. His finishing ability. He's currently 5th in the NBA in drives. His FG% on drives is 69%. The next highest FG% on drives of anyone in top top 10 is Brogdan at 56%! That's insane. He's 13% better on drives than anyone comparable. Harden and LeBron are 55%. Kyrie 49%. Kawahi 48%. His ability to get in the paint and shoot that little floater has been unreal."


First off: The point was to say Luka had a GOAT-tier ceiling despite some weaknesses. You're not really disagreeing with my overall point lol

Second thing: I'm just looking at it from a tools standpoint, because whatever the numbers are right now, I don't think GOAT level at-rim (at rim, not in-paint; there's a difference) - there's a reason the GOAT level at-rim guys (Jordan, Bron, Shaq, Giannis...) are physical freaks at the wing, or insanely dominant big men. The one exception (Curry) was a GOAT level shooter whose inside game opened up.

Luka is of course much closer to the second, so while his craftiness and shooting will definitely allow him to continue to be elite inside, I just don't think it's gonna be GOAT level.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#145 » by Texas Chuck » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:16 pm

Tony Parker was an elite at the rim finisher as well and without looking it up I don't even know if he could dunk. You don't have to be prime Nique or Kemp to be a great finisher.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#146 » by Yuri36 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:22 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:Tony Parker was an elite at the rim finisher as well and without looking it up I don't even know if he could dunk. You don't have to be prime Nique or Kemp to be a great finisher.


Yeah but Tony was much faster than Luka.
That changes a lot of things.
The "problem" with Luka is that he is neither fast neither have a big jump so it makes rim's attacks much harder for him even tough he has some big weapons with enable him to do it as his fakes, his craftyness and his body and size
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#147 » by 70sFan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:03 pm

This kid is phenomenal. Such a smart offensive player, just outplayed two former MVPs. I see bright future for him :)
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#148 » by Peregrine01 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:19 pm

One thing that doesn't get a lot of press: Luka is a very sturdy and strong dude. He's not always able to blow by his man but he gets to his spot and he can't get dislodged. Kinda like Kawhi.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#149 » by Swish1906 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:26 pm

The most scouted player ever to enter the draft. With the most games/tournaments etc etc to scout.

And yet the team with the 5th pick is able to get him. Amazing.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#150 » by JulesWinnfield » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:46 pm

His ball handling and footwork are both just incredible. Id argue his handle is unmatched for a guy at 6’7” or taller. And he pairs these two traits with such an amazing feel for the game and understanding of pace. Its very Harden-esque the way he has a feel for the stutter step to get a defender off balance, the sudden stops and quick bursts that enable him to just blow by people despite not having mind blowing quickness simply by keeping defenders off balance all the time. Hes going to make a lot of defenders look silly for a long time. Hes just playing on an incredible level
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#151 » by Homer38 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:49 pm

Special,special,special player!
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#152 » by TheGOATRises007 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:18 am

He is an incredible player.

I really thought he'd turn out average. Boy I wasn't even close. I'll take that L.

He's the best talent since Lebron.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#153 » by theonlyclutch » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:35 am

2 more seasons of this and there'd rightfully be very serious debates of whether he's the best white player to have played in the NBA all time, even if his resume wouldnt be there yet.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#154 » by Jaivl » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:21 am

Damn, I remember two/three years ago that I was talking wonders of him on this board and dropped young Ricky and Pau comps. Seems I was way, way conservative... He is really going to be the one who fully explodes, isn't he?
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#155 » by NaturalThunder » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:17 am

Swish1906 wrote:The most scouted player ever to enter the draft. With the most games/tournaments etc etc to scout.

And yet the team with the 5th pick is able to get him. Amazing.

And he was dominating the second best professional league in the world as a teenager. A league, despite what some might say/think, is definitely better competition than D1 college basketball.

This kid is unreal.

I know the Luka-mania may end up spoiling a lot of people on him, but it's hard to deny at this point that his ceiling is extremely high. At this point, barring injury, it's hard to foresee anything other than a 1st ballot HOF'er career. How high he ends up in the all-tim rankings is yet to be determined.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#156 » by NaturalThunder » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:22 am

theonlyclutch wrote:2 more seasons of this and there'd rightfully be very serious debates of whether he's the best white player to have played in the NBA all time, even if his resume wouldnt be there yet.

Maybe. Even if he carries this out the rest of this season plus two more seasons, he'd still have some work to do to reach Bird level.

But yeah, for a 2nd year 20 year old, he's already in extremely rarefied air.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#157 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:41 am

Peregrine01 wrote:One thing that doesn't get a lot of press: Luka is a very sturdy and strong dude. He's not always able to blow by his man but he gets to his spot and he can't get dislodged. Kinda like Kawhi.


Was just thinking this today. I don't think people realize how strong he is. He was absolutely bulldozing P.J. Tucker, who is about as strong as they come.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#158 » by Swish1906 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:47 am

NaturalThunder wrote:And he was dominating the second best professional league in the world as a teenager. A league, despite what some might say/think, is definitely better competition than D1 college basketball.


I just know Donnie told that like one year before the draft the Mavs allready knew that he is going to be at the top on their draft board without any questionmark.

They entered the draft lottery with the third worst record, praying to finally get one time lucky to make sure they get him. When they fell to 5 there was an incredible disappointing comments from everyone. Donnie, Dirk etc..they all thought that they have zero chance anymore.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#159 » by Heej » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:51 am

NaturalThunder wrote:
theonlyclutch wrote:2 more seasons of this and there'd rightfully be very serious debates of whether he's the best white player to have played in the NBA all time, even if his resume wouldnt be there yet.

Maybe. Even if he carries this out the rest of this season plus two more seasons, he'd still have some work to do to reach Bird level.

But yeah, for a 2nd year 20 year old, he's already in extremely rarefied air.

At this point I really doubt he'll ever match Bird's defensive prowess. Bird's hands and anticipation were Jason Kidd level.
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Re: The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread 

Post#160 » by theonlyclutch » Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:46 am

Heej wrote:
NaturalThunder wrote:
theonlyclutch wrote:2 more seasons of this and there'd rightfully be very serious debates of whether he's the best white player to have played in the NBA all time, even if his resume wouldnt be there yet.

Maybe. Even if he carries this out the rest of this season plus two more seasons, he'd still have some work to do to reach Bird level.

But yeah, for a 2nd year 20 year old, he's already in extremely rarefied air.

At this point I really doubt he'll ever match Bird's defensive prowess. Bird's hands and anticipation were Jason Kidd level.


Luka doesn't need to get close to Bird's defensive prowess to be just as valuable as Bird, because he's already more dynamic on-ball as a scorer and has shown that as a playmaker his ability can rival anyone in history, Bird included.
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