Political Roundtable Part XXVII

[Pointgod]

IMO the state of the selection of the Democrat's nominee for president is depressing.
Biden
As just brought out - one of main architects of mass incarceration, drug wars, etc
Not too bright
Gutless - only one to vote against bin laden raid
78 years old
The only reason to support is that some think he's best chance to win (piss poor reason for selection)
Has no support from anyone younger than 90
Warren
I can't over her being a Republican until 1996
I'm for some sort of single payer plan, but her tax proposals and abolishing private med insurance will get her destroyed in election
Bernie
Heart attack and too old
I'd love an atheist Jew for president, but don't think that'll help. Would be nastiest election ever. Nazis coming out party.
Same problems as Warren. Even if ideas are good, can't get passed and make it hard to get elected.
Buttgigasomething
Don't get it. Why does being a good debater, and being young, gay and moderate make one a qualified presidential candidate?
Bloomberg
He'a actually brilliant, but being an aragant racist is disqualifying.
Gabbard
The only one I actually hate
Klobuchar
Would probably be a good candidate against Trump. Wish she wasn't an ****.
Booker
Don't know why he's even running. Being a black male after Obama doesn't help this time.
Steyer
Buy an election. I don't think so.
Castro and Yang
Actually like them. Maybe that's why they have no chance.
Patrick
Shows how weak the field is that he even considered it.
Harris
I like her, but doesn't seem to be able to run a good campaign.

I hope none of the top four get the nomination, but not confident of that or the alternatives.

Quick question are you going to vote for Trump or sit out of the election?

[dobrojim]

Account for this. Show us how truly accountable Republicans are.

Read on Twitter

Walter Shaub is a hack, not even a blip on a radar for any type of response. You show me the accountability standards for the left when it comes to a fair tax system, criminal justice, abortion, etc, and I'll return the same

You don’t get off that easily except in Trump world. First Shaub is a respectable source.
Dare you to wiki him. Do you even know what his job was?

Second, everything he lists is fricken true; they’re wrong and indefensible. Or make your case.
Which of things in that 30+ list is either untrue or defensible. Your response will be
Indicative of seriousness or frivolousness, which is how the court treated their absurd claims
about privilege.

[doclinkin]

Account for this. Show us how truly accountable Republicans are.

Read on Twitter

Walter Shaub is a hack, not even a blip on a radar for any type of response. You show me the accountability standards for the left when it comes to a fair tax system, criminal justice, abortion, etc, and I'll return the same

You don’t get off that easily except in Trump world. First Shaub is a respectable source.
Dare you to wiki him. Do you even know what his job was?

Second, everything he lists is fricken true; they’re wrong and indefensible. Or make your case.
Which of things in that 30+ list is either untrue or defensible. Your response will be
Indicative of seriousness or frivolousness, which is how the court treated their absurd claims
about privilege.

This part being the most chilling of the list:

And this is only what Trump did while the remote threat of Congressional oversight existed. If the Senate acquits him, he will know for certain there is nothing that could ever lead to Congress removing him from office. And what he does next will similarly set precedents

[dckingsfan]

If the senate doesn't act - are we heading toward Mexico like corruption?

[Fairview4Life]

Yup let crack heads do however and whatever they please. More amazing is the continued fear of accountability on the left. You know what the easiest decision in life is? Not what to wear to work today, what to eat for breakfast, which email to reply to first, nope. The easiest decision, not to commit a crime or do drugs.

Actually yes you’re better off letting people do drugs and spending money to rehab addicts rather than throw them in jail. You end up spending less money too. I challenge you to provide evidence that on a whole imprisoning people for low level crimes presents better outcomes than fines and some form of community service. I’m sure other posters here can present clear evidence to the contrary.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

[dobrojim]

Yup let crack heads do however and whatever they please. More amazing is the continued fear of accountability on the left. You know what the easiest decision in life is? Not what to wear to work today, what to eat for breakfast, which email to reply to first, nope. The easiest decision, not to commit a crime or do drugs.

Actually yes you’re better off letting people do drugs and spending money to rehab addicts rather than throw them in jail. You end up spending less money too. I challenge you to provide evidence that on a whole imprisoning people for low level crimes presents better outcomes than fines and some form of community service. I’m sure other posters here can present clear evidence to the contrary.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

This.

Portugal decriminalized all drugs, not just for instance, weed. And
the sky didn’t fall.

[montestewart]

Yup let crack heads do however and whatever they please. More amazing is the continued fear of accountability on the left. You know what the easiest decision in life is? Not what to wear to work today, what to eat for breakfast, which email to reply to first, nope. The easiest decision, not to commit a crime or do drugs.

Actually yes you’re better off letting people do drugs and spending money to rehab addicts rather than throw them in jail. You end up spending less money too. I challenge you to provide evidence that on a whole imprisoning people for low level crimes presents better outcomes than fines and some form of community service. I’m sure other posters here can present clear evidence to the contrary.

I think everyone on this board is a lot better informed than Da1 about the history of drug use and abuse and its criminalization and treatment. It's like one of the people in the debate is an ex-Marine with gray hair, a crewcut, and a yellow, short sleeved polyester button down, right out of 1972 central casting (I'm imagining my next door neighbor in 1972).

Everyone, have a happy Thanksgiving, and try to remember to love one and other and don't be too harsh in your language. And don't drink (or smoke weed or eat oxys) and drive!

And where politics and Thanksgiving meet, we must remember this classic, Sarah Pain pardoning a turkey as another turkey is decapitated just over here shoulder. Guess that bird got the small end of the wishbone.

Watch on YouTube

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Bu bu but civility!

[daoneandonly]

Agreed! And let's go back to jailing those evil beer drinkers. They should be punished - how did we miss out on that one?

Yeah because beer is the same thing as cocaine, heroin, and meth. Not to mention the murderers, thieves, and rapists that are right where they belong in prison. But lets keep playing that record over

You **** moronic dumb piece of **** ****.

Yet again proving your ignorance on a subject and acting like the moral authority.

If you had even an ounce of integrity, or consistency you would be just as outraged over what’s at issue here.

The sentencing guidelines of crack vs. cocaine, two drugs with the same active ingredient albeit with a different clientele.

Do you EVER get tired of looking like a daft ****?

Oh did I stir up something in the non tax paying, zero contribution to America poster?

Do you EVER get tired of playing the race card? It's tired and flawed. There's colored people all over America thriving, and somehow, someway managed to do so despite the color of their skin. Can you imagine?

You're the how do you call it, moronic dumb piece of ***, who wishes death on people trying to properly punish criminals for their actions, but then have all this compassion for the ones who commited said crimes. Gee I wonder why? Perhaps your boys from your stomping grounds are behind bars? There's no excuse to sell drugs, get a damn job and earn your keep. No reason to do cocaine, meth, heroine, etc.

[Wizardspride]

[dobrojim]

Account for this. Show us how truly accountable Republicans are.

Read on Twitter

Walter Shaub is a hack, not even a blip on a radar for any type of response. You show me the accountability standards for the left when it comes to a fair tax system, criminal justice, abortion, etc, and I'll return the same

You don’t get off that easily except in Trump world. First Shaub is a respectable source.
Dare you to wiki him. Do you even know what his job was?

Second, everything he lists is fricken true; they’re wrong and indefensible. Or make your case.
Which of things in that 30+ list is either untrue or defensible. Your response will be
Indicative of seriousness or frivolousness, which is how the court treated their absurd claims
about privilege.

Perhaps you somehow missed this. I am waiting for what you call accountability.

[bsilver]

IMO the state of the selection of the Democrat's nominee for president is depressing.
Biden
As just brought out - one of main architects of mass incarceration, drug wars, etc
Not too bright
Gutless - only one to vote against bin laden raid
78 years old
The only reason to support is that some think he's best chance to win (piss poor reason for selection)
Has no support from anyone younger than 90
Warren
I can't over her being a Republican until 1996
I'm for some sort of single payer plan, but her tax proposals and abolishing private med insurance will get her destroyed in election
Bernie
Heart attack and too old
I'd love an atheist Jew for president, but don't think that'll help. Would be nastiest election ever. Nazis coming out party.
Same problems as Warren. Even if ideas are good, can't get passed and make it hard to get elected.
Buttgigasomething
Don't get it. Why does being a good debater, and being young, gay and moderate make one a qualified presidential candidate?
Bloomberg
He'a actually brilliant, but being an aragant racist is disqualifying.
Gabbard
The only one I actually hate
Klobuchar
Would probably be a good candidate against Trump. Wish she wasn't an ****.
Booker
Don't know why he's even running. Being a black male after Obama doesn't help this time.
Steyer
Buy an election. I don't think so.
Castro and Yang
Actually like them. Maybe that's why they have no chance.
Patrick
Shows how weak the field is that he even considered it.
Harris
I like her, but doesn't seem to be able to run a good campaign.

I hope none of the top four get the nomination, but not confident of that or the alternatives.

Quick question are you going to vote for Trump or sit out of the election?

Neither.
Just don't want another hold my nose and vote for Hillary type election, like in 2016.
A candidate that can generate broad enthusiasm is needed, to get high Dem turnout. So it's not about me, but winning.

[montestewart]

You **** moronic dumb piece of **** ****.

Spoiler:

Yet again proving your ignorance on a subject and acting like the moral authority.

If you had even an ounce of integrity, or consistency you would be just as outraged over what’s at issue here.

The sentencing guidelines of crack vs. cocaine, two drugs with the same active ingredient albeit with a different clientele.

Do you EVER get tired of looking like a daft ****?

Spoiler:

Oh did I stir up something in the non tax paying, zero contribution to America poster?

Do you EVER get tired of playing the race card? It's tired and flawed. There's colored people all over America thriving, and somehow, someway managed to do so despite the color of their skin. Can you imagine?

You're the how do you call it, moronic dumb piece of ***,

Spoiler:

who wishes death on people trying to properly punish criminals for their actions, but then have all this compassion for the ones who commited said crimes. Gee I wonder why? Perhaps your boys from your stomping grounds are behind bars? There's no excuse to sell drugs, get a damn job and earn your keep. No reason to do cocaine, meth, heroine, etc.

Oh you two...! Watch the language, name calling, etc. If you don't like an opponent's argument, debate with facts, analysis, and reason. If you think a discussion participant incapable of facts, analysis, and reason, ignore that opponent, or put them on ignore if it's a persistent issue.

No reason to do cocaine, meth, heroine, etc.

About this, I gotta say Da1, you are straight up wrong. There are lots and lots of reasons. Many reasons. Yep. Political debate is one good reason right there. When they go low, we get high.

[dobrojim]

Some folks seem to prefer simple solutions without regard to
whether said solution is actually likely to achieve the desired
goal. Outright prohibition as a response usually has complications
that often render the outcome less than what had been desired.
Both parties do this to varying degrees.

On this board we occasionally see arguments like I don’t like
what your source said and therefore I will dismiss it out of hand.
Simple non response response.

[pancakes3]

dumb people can't admit that they're dumb any more and it's a real problem. thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[Pointgod]

IMO the state of the selection of the Democrat's nominee for president is depressing.
Biden
As just brought out - one of main architects of mass incarceration, drug wars, etc
Not too bright
Gutless - only one to vote against bin laden raid
78 years old
The only reason to support is that some think he's best chance to win (piss poor reason for selection)
Has no support from anyone younger than 90
Warren
I can't over her being a Republican until 1996
I'm for some sort of single payer plan, but her tax proposals and abolishing private med insurance will get her destroyed in election
Bernie
Heart attack and too old
I'd love an atheist Jew for president, but don't think that'll help. Would be nastiest election ever. Nazis coming out party.
Same problems as Warren. Even if ideas are good, can't get passed and make it hard to get elected.
Buttgigasomething
Don't get it. Why does being a good debater, and being young, gay and moderate make one a qualified presidential candidate?
Bloomberg
He'a actually brilliant, but being an aragant racist is disqualifying.
Gabbard
The only one I actually hate
Klobuchar
Would probably be a good candidate against Trump. Wish she wasn't an ****.
Booker
Don't know why he's even running. Being a black male after Obama doesn't help this time.
Steyer
Buy an election. I don't think so.
Castro and Yang
Actually like them. Maybe that's why they have no chance.
Patrick
Shows how weak the field is that he even considered it.
Harris
I like her, but doesn't seem to be able to run a good campaign.

I hope none of the top four get the nomination, but not confident of that or the alternatives.

Quick question are you going to vote for Trump or sit out of the election?

Neither.
Just don't want another hold my nose and vote for Hillary type election, like in 2016.
A candidate that can generate broad enthusiasm is needed, to get high Dem turnout. So it's not about me, but winning.

I think the narrative that any of the Democratic candidates are a hold your nose vote is part of the problem. Hillary was literally the best candidate out of anyone running in 2016, everything she warned the country about Trump has come true. Everyone should have shown up to elect the first female President especially when it’s against an actual rapist.

Any of the Democratic candidates in the primary would make a better President then not only Trump but any Republican. The Republican Party is a criminal organization that’s only interested in maintaining their own power and enriching themselves. It doesn’t matter who the eventual nominee is, Democrats should be showing up to vote to crush Republicans. Saving your country and Democracy should be what drives enthusiasm not a single candidate. I encourage everyone on this site to volunteer for whoever the eventual nominee is, register voters, call up family and friends in swing states. Get them to show up and vote Democrat. I don’t know what more motivation you need.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Just don't want another hold my nose and vote for Hillary type election, like in 2016.
A candidate that can generate broad enthusiasm is needed, to get high Dem turnout. So it's not about me, but winning.

I think there is a bit of truth to this but I also think there's more truth to the reality that Democrats need to get their heads out of their own asses. There isn't such a thing as a perfect candidate. Trump isn't remotely close to perfect but Republicans come out and support him. What you need to do is consistently support candidates that lean more towards what you prefer and then make the best as the options present themselves. If you don't like any of the options, that's a realistic problem but when the problem is mostly "won't get support" that tends to be an indictment of the would-be supporters more than the candidate themselves. If you can get derailed by facebook memes, you probably aren't going to be happy with anyone in the Democratic Party ever. That's just the way it is.

I mean, look at some of your criticisms. I'm definitely no fan of Biden but the idea that the one person who stands up with a dissenting voice in an otherwise unanimous decision is a coward is just plain wrong. That doesn't mean that Biden did or didn't have the best opinion regarding Bin Laden but I'm not convinced it makes him a coward. It's not like he would have been putting his life on the line supporting the decision.

Your criticisms of Biden and Warren (I don't mind Warren but am not a huge fan of Bernie) are more an indictment of the people not wanting what they're selling. Truth be told, that might be true, but if we're going to stop trying to sell those kinds of things, then the battle has already largely been lost.

[Ruzious]

I think the average person still doesn't get - or even come close to getting - how horrible a President and a person the pog that lives in the WH is. It boggles my mind that there's still about half of Independents that are not in favor of impeachment. He really could shoot someone in cold blood in front of millions of people, and significant percentage of the public would not want him impeached. That's a problem, and it's a problem that people don't seem to understand the simple fact that it's a problem. And if anyone thinks I might be talking about them, you're probably right.

[pancakes3]

i understand being underwhelmed by the field in terms of pure charisma/personality/electability. no JFK/Clinton/Obama's in this field.

however, i want to push back against the general mentality of being too captivated by campaign platforms that are dependent on legislation because (1) monumental legislation moves at a glacial pace as it is, and (2) republicans are just full out obstructionists at this point.

what i mean by that is:
don't hate on Warren because her "plan" to finance free college, or her tax plan is against your personal tastes because the power to spend and tax is firmly vested in congress. do be concerned about her power to enforce regulations against banks and white collar crimes in general because those are vested and established powers of the presidency. she'll face plenty of pushback to implement free college, m4a, and wealth tax in congress without your principled stance against socialism in the primaries. but one thing she can do carte blanche starting day 1 is to focus on wall street corruption, and do so with a vengeance.

sure, a convicted president is capable to push through legislation like Obama with obamacare. but Trump, even with congressional majority could barely push through his tax plan, and couldn't even get a $5 billion line item to fund his wall. nor should he be able to. however, he is able to implement muslim bans, dismantle the EPA, and a whole mess of other incredibly awful policies.