The 2019-20 Luka Dončić Thread

[Doctor MJ]

I find myself seriously considered future Luka vs peak LeBron now if I'm honest. I think the really interesting question isn't what the odds are of it happening, but what would have to happen to get there.

Along those lines, there is the reality that at present, the gap between Luka's team ORtg and the 2nd best team in the league is bigger than the gap between the 2nd and the 13th. Obviously we all question how sustainable this is...but we're at a point where that's what's holding us back: The assumption that what we're seeing right now is in some way unsustainable. That there's no way that Luka can produce by far the best offense in the league with often Tim Hardaway Jr being the best offensive teammate he has.

To be fair, it's not an unreasonable assumption. I mean, THJ just doesn't seem like someone any contending offense should be depending upon. But the fact that we're no longer talking about him reaching a new mythical gear but are instead trying to "round down" what we're already seeing makes it that nothing is really too bold to consider.

I think peak wise it may be more about defensive capabilities. LeBron has not only anchored the top playoff ortg team of all time but also anchored Miami and Cleveland(though with the Cleveland ones he had more legitimate big man help) defenses that were among the best in the league. Using LeBron as his primary comparison isn't really fair though even though its probably going to be the primary one until he retires. One thing obviously in Doncic's favor is the era he plays in and his ability to use the analytic style of offense which he is incorporating a lot this year. His long 2's he's already cut in half as a % of his shots while his shots near the rim and ability to get to the line have gone up dramatically.

Very reasonable to bring up defense as the thing that would hold him back, and this is why many still feel Giannis is the favorite to be the player of the 2020s instead of Luka.

As mentioned though, if the Mavs are legit 4 points better than anyone else on offense despite a weak supporting cast, that gap alone is would rival DPOY level defense.

[Blackmill]

I find myself seriously considered future Luka vs peak LeBron now if I'm honest. I think the really interesting question isn't what the odds are of it happening, but what would have to happen to get there.

Along those lines, there is the reality that at present, the gap between Luka's team ORtg and the 2nd best team in the league is bigger than the gap between the 2nd and the 13th. Obviously we all question how sustainable this is...but we're at a point where that's what's holding us back: The assumption that what we're seeing right now is in some way unsustainable. That there's no way that Luka can produce by far the best offense in the league with often Tim Hardaway Jr being the best offensive teammate he has.

To be fair, it's not an unreasonable assumption. I mean, THJ just doesn't seem like someone any contending offense should be depending upon. But the fact that we're no longer talking about him reaching a new mythical gear but are instead trying to "round down" what we're already seeing makes it that nothing is really too bold to consider.

I think peak wise it may be more about defensive capabilities. LeBron has not only anchored the top playoff ortg team of all time but also anchored Miami and Cleveland(though with the Cleveland ones he had more legitimate big man help) defenses that were among the best in the league. Using LeBron as his primary comparison isn't really fair though even though its probably going to be the primary one until he retires. One thing obviously in Doncic's favor is the era he plays in and his ability to use the analytic style of offense which he is incorporating a lot this year. His long 2's he's already cut in half as a % of his shots while his shots near the rim and ability to get to the line have gone up dramatically.

Very reasonable to bring up defense as the thing that would hold him back, and this is why many still feel Giannis is the favorite to be the player of the 2020s instead of Luka.

As mentioned though, if the Mavs are legit 4 points better than anyone else on offense despite a weak supporting cast, that gap alone is would rival DPOY level defense.

Worth noting,

Luka on: 118.9
Luka off: 111.6

Luka’s on court offense is great but not uncharted territory. The overall Mavs offense is much better than other team’s because it’s great when Luka plays and still very good when he doesn’t. If the supporting cast really is mediocre (I don’t know this Mavs team too well) there should be some regression in the overall offense. But just maintaining a 116+ offense on court is very good.

[Doctor MJ]

I think peak wise it may be more about defensive capabilities. LeBron has not only anchored the top playoff ortg team of all time but also anchored Miami and Cleveland(though with the Cleveland ones he had more legitimate big man help) defenses that were among the best in the league. Using LeBron as his primary comparison isn't really fair though even though its probably going to be the primary one until he retires. One thing obviously in Doncic's favor is the era he plays in and his ability to use the analytic style of offense which he is incorporating a lot this year. His long 2's he's already cut in half as a % of his shots while his shots near the rim and ability to get to the line have gone up dramatically.

Very reasonable to bring up defense as the thing that would hold him back, and this is why many still feel Giannis is the favorite to be the player of the 2020s instead of Luka.

As mentioned though, if the Mavs are legit 4 points better than anyone else on offense despite a weak supporting cast, that gap alone is would rival DPOY level defense.

Worth noting,

Luka on: 118.9
Luka off: 111.6

Luka’s on court offense is great but not uncharted territory. The overall Mavs offense is much better than other team’s because it’s great when Luka plays and still very good when he doesn’t. If the supporting cast really is mediocre (I don’t know this Mavs team too well) there should be some regression in the overall offense. But just maintaining a 116+ offense on court is very good.

Yup, one of many reasons to think that the gap between the Luka Mavs offense and everyone else isn't likely to stay so dramatic.

On the other hand, the fact that Luka really has been the OPOY so far this year is a hard thing for me to feel comfortable caveating. While I take a healthy LeBron over Luka in the playoffs, dayum, didn't think it would even be a debate.

[Sublime187]

I find myself seriously considered future Luka vs peak LeBron now if I'm honest. I think the really interesting question isn't what the odds are of it happening, but what would have to happen to get there.

Along those lines, there is the reality that at present, the gap between Luka's team ORtg and the 2nd best team in the league is bigger than the gap between the 2nd and the 13th. Obviously we all question how sustainable this is...but we're at a point where that's what's holding us back: The assumption that what we're seeing right now is in some way unsustainable. That there's no way that Luka can produce by far the best offense in the league with often Tim Hardaway Jr being the best offensive teammate he has.

To be fair, it's not an unreasonable assumption. I mean, THJ just doesn't seem like someone any contending offense should be depending upon. But the fact that we're no longer talking about him reaching a new mythical gear but are instead trying to "round down" what we're already seeing makes it that nothing is really too bold to consider.

I think peak wise it may be more about defensive capabilities. LeBron has not only anchored the top playoff ortg team of all time but also anchored Miami and Cleveland defenses(though with the Cleveland ones he had more legitimate big man help) that were among the best in the league. Using LeBron as his primary comparison isn't really fair though even though its probably going to be the primary one until he retires. One thing obviously in Doncic's favor is the era he plays in and his ability to use the analytic style of offense which he is incorporating a lot this year. His long 2's he's already cut in half as a % of his shots while his shots near the rim and ability to get to the line have gone up dramatically.

I think we get too far ahead sometimes too quickly. There were people saying Davis had a good chance of being the GOAT a few years ago because of a short period of time of play and now we know that will likely not even be close. Doncic has played very well for 20 games and teams will definitely start to use different ideas to shut him down so, we will have to see how he handles that.

We still have to see how he performs in the playoffs when teams really buckle down and scheme against star players. We have seen the reality of guys like Giannis, Harden, Paul George etc. and that they have a long way to go based on how they performed in the playoffs.

Again, I think he needs to play out this whole season and we need to see how he performs in the playoffs before we even start to compare him to GOAT level players or you could say the GOAT player in the case of Lebron.

[limbo]

The amount of processing at insane speeds Luka's brain is doing when he plays basketball is scary. I can honestly see myself saying he's the smartest basketball player of all-time AT FREAKING 20 YEARS OLD.

Most of his weaknesses are basically him just trying to take more difficult shots and passes just to see what he can get away with.

I'm not sure if he can actually improve his explosion off one foot and leaping ability, because that would take his game up another level. Every other match he blows a lot of easy lay-ups and shots at the rim because his lack of lift. It's like watching old LeBron on a back-to-back.

[Yuri36]

The amount of processing at insane speeds Luka's brain is doing when he plays basketball is scary. I can honestly see myself saying he's the smartest basketball player of all-time AT FREAKING 20 YEARS OLD.

Most of his weaknesses are basically him just trying to take more difficult shots and passes just to see what he can get away with.

I'm not sure if he can actually improve his explosion off one foot and leaping ability, because that would take his game up another level. Every other match he blows a lot of easy lay-ups and shots at the rim because his lack of lift. It's like watching old LeBron on a back-to-back.

Another level? That would probably take him in GOAT territory, let's be honest.
The guy has simply godly skills and basketball IQ, just imagine that in a body with just half of MJ or LBJ's athleticism for example.

[Doctor MJ]

The amount of processing at insane speeds Luka's brain is doing when he plays basketball is scary. I can honestly see myself saying he's the smartest basketball player of all-time AT FREAKING 20 YEARS OLD.

Most of his weaknesses are basically him just trying to take more difficult shots and passes just to see what he can get away with.

I'm not sure if he can actually improve his explosion off one foot and leaping ability, because that would take his game up another level. Every other match he blows a lot of easy lay-ups and shots at the rim because his lack of lift. It's like watching old LeBron on a back-to-back.

Another level? That would probably take him in GOAT territory, let's be honest.
The guy has simply godly skills and basketball IQ, just imagine that in a body with just half of MJ or LBJ's athleticism for example.

As a tall dude I'm perhaps inclined to point out that Doncic has a phenomenal basketball body by all sane standards. The fraction of the populace as tall as him is very small. The fraction of them that have the kind of all-body control he does small. The fraction of them that can shoot like he does, quite small.

All this is to say that it's not so crazy to me with for someone with a body like that could make up for body-talent gaps with a better brain.

[Doctor MJ]

A thought:

I mock the Suns and the Kings for passing on Luka out of fear of a white stiff, but it's funny now that we've actually arrived at a moment I remember talked about back for decades. We've been promised these European players as being superhuman in various ways and again and again they've fallen short of the hype. (No disrespect to the Dirk Nowitzki's of the world, the issue isn't whether we get superstar talent from Europe but our inability to have any idea who actually has that capability before the draft.)

In Luka we finally have someone who has all the hype from Europe and then quickly demonstrates and improves upon what we hoped for. In this sense, it really does remind of LeBron. There's a similar sense of shock and someone being this in-command this quickly that I can't recall seeing from anyone.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

What's impressive is that his improvement hasn't been coming from where most people would have expected, raising his 3 point percentage.
He became a real pick and roll master with Ginobili reads, Harden's craft and Kawhi's strength, but he's still in the low 30s from 3.
I think there's a low hanging fruit for him to get to 36-37% with same shot selection, and that would unlock new levels of his game.

To be goat level, though, there a few things to check:
- how good will defense be, considering he won't peak at the level some guy reached for single possessions. Even now LeBron or Kawhi must pace themselves, but on in clutch situations they can be deadly
- what kind of an iso guy he can be, and for that he must level up his step back three
- what about his off ball game? That's the x factor that could raise him above many other guys


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[Ryoga Hibiki]

A thought:

I mock the Suns and the Kings for passing on Luka out of fear of a white stiff, but it's funny now that we've actually arrived at a moment I remember talked about back for decades. We've been promised these European players as being superhuman in various ways and again and again they've fallen short of the hype. (No disrespect to the Dirk Nowitzki's of the world, the issue isn't whether we get superstar talent from Europe but our inability to have any idea who actually has that capability before the draft.)

In Luka we finally have someone who has all the hype from Europe and then quickly demonstrates and improves upon what we hoped for. In this sense, it really does remind of LeBron. There's a similar sense of shock and someone being this in-command this quickly that I can't recall seeing from anyone.

To be honest, Giannis has been the only FIBA great player who popped out of nowhere. And all guys who were actually proven had their game translate pretty well in the NBA (Gasol, Manu, Rubio, Gallo...). The big failures were guys who were just showing glimpses in practice, the risk is obviously very high in such cases

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[Dundalis]

I find myself seriously considered future Luka vs peak LeBron now if I'm honest. I think the really interesting question isn't what the odds are of it happening, but what would have to happen to get there.

Along those lines, there is the reality that at present, the gap between Luka's team ORtg and the 2nd best team in the league is bigger than the gap between the 2nd and the 13th. Obviously we all question how sustainable this is...but we're at a point where that's what's holding us back: The assumption that what we're seeing right now is in some way unsustainable. That there's no way that Luka can produce by far the best offense in the league with often Tim Hardaway Jr being the best offensive teammate he has.

To be fair, it's not an unreasonable assumption. I mean, THJ just doesn't seem like someone any contending offense should be depending upon. But the fact that we're no longer talking about him reaching a new mythical gear but are instead trying to "round down" what we're already seeing makes it that nothing is really too bold to consider.

I think peak wise it may be more about defensive capabilities. LeBron has not only anchored the top playoff ortg team of all time but also anchored Miami and Cleveland defenses(though with the Cleveland ones he had more legitimate big man help) that were among the best in the league. Using LeBron as his primary comparison isn't really fair though even though its probably going to be the primary one until he retires. One thing obviously in Doncic's favor is the era he plays in and his ability to use the analytic style of offense which he is incorporating a lot this year. His long 2's he's already cut in half as a % of his shots while his shots near the rim and ability to get to the line have gone up dramatically.

I think we get too far ahead sometimes too quickly. There were people saying Davis had a good chance of being the GOAT a few years ago because of a short period of time of play and now we know that will likely not even be close. Doncic has played very well for 20 games and teams will definitely start to use different ideas to shut him down so, we will have to see how he handles that.

We still have to see how he performs in the playoffs when teams really buckle down and scheme against star players. We have seen the reality of guys like Giannis, Harden, Paul George etc. and that they have a long way to go based on how they performed in the playoffs.

Again, I think he needs to play out this whole season and we need to see how he performs in the playoffs before we even start to compare him to GOAT level players or you could say the GOAT player in the case of Lebron.

Who said Davis could be the goat? And I mean apart from homer backseat couch potato fans. Also no one is saying Luka is the GOAT. They are saying what he is doing is comparable or better than what players in the conversation for GOAT were doing at the same age. Doncic is not just playing very well for 18 games, he's playing a stretch of 18 games that is almost historic, regardless of age.

[Dundalis]

What's impressive is that his improvement hasn't been coming from where most people would have expected, raising his 3 point percentage.
He became a real pick and roll master with Ginobili reads, Harden's craft and Kawhi's strength, but he's still in the low 30s from 3.
I think there's a low hanging fruit for him to get to 36-37% with same shot selection, and that would unlock new levels of his game.

To be goat level, though, there a few things to check:
- how good will defense be, considering he won't peak at the level some guy reached for single possessions. Even now LeBron or Kawhi must pace themselves, but on in clutch situations they can be deadly
- what kind of an iso guy he can be, and for that he must level up his step back three
- what about his off ball game? That's the x factor that could raise him above many other guys


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To be perfectly honest, I think he's having a bad run to start the season from 3. All it takes is a couple games for him to be unconscious from there to drastically bump that percentage up. Everyone behind the scenes within the Mavs org is saying his confidence is his shooting has drastically increased this year. We've seen it in his FT%, I'm pretty sure he will go on a run at some point from beyond the arc.

He will be an average defender minimum at his peak. You don't need to be a great athlete to be an average defender. In fact there are good NBA defenders who aren't very good athletes at all. Rubio and Joe Ingles come to mind. Just having good size and strength for your position and good technique, which comes with experience if you have the work ethic to improve it. He will probably be a bit better than that because of his basketball IQ.

Luka scores 1.05 PPP on iso's. Thats in the 75th percentile, and better than Lebron and Giannis. 15th in the league amongst players with at least 1ISO field goal attempt per game. He attempts the 10th most FG's on ISO's in the league.

Luka has played off ball in professional leagues in Europe. He won't need to worry about that in the NBA unless Dallas can find another high level ball handler (which they were clearly looking for having targeted Kemba Walker). But he was an off ball player for club and country in Europe until his final season with Real Madrid, purely due to an injury.

[AdagioPace]

I love how he lowers his shoulders to a crazy level for his height to hide and keep a better control of the ball while gettings past his defender. Underrated body control. Air Jordan ----> Earthly Doncic

Watch on YouTube

[Freighttrain]

I'm just glad I'm seeing someone who LeBron can pass the torch of being the face of the league in Dončić. This kid is special beyond anyone's wildest dreams. I'm wondering what he'll do once the playoffs arrive.

[Texas Chuck]

[
Who said Davis could be the goat? And I mean apart from homer backseat couch potato fans. .

it was a major talking point on here and many of the most respected posters were saying it fwiw.

[Doctor MJ]

A thought:

I mock the Suns and the Kings for passing on Luka out of fear of a white stiff, but it's funny now that we've actually arrived at a moment I remember talked about back for decades. We've been promised these European players as being superhuman in various ways and again and again they've fallen short of the hype. (No disrespect to the Dirk Nowitzki's of the world, the issue isn't whether we get superstar talent from Europe but our inability to have any idea who actually has that capability before the draft.)

In Luka we finally have someone who has all the hype from Europe and then quickly demonstrates and improves upon what we hoped for. In this sense, it really does remind of LeBron. There's a similar sense of shock and someone being this in-command this quickly that I can't recall seeing from anyone.

To be honest, Giannis has been the only FIBA great player who popped out of nowhere. And all guys who were actually proven had their game translate pretty well in the NBA (Gasol, Manu, Rubio, Gallo...). The big failures were guys who were just showing glimpses in practice, the risk is obviously very high in such cases

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Hmm, first: Dirk? To me Dirk & Giannis are the exact same category. Unproven prospects who ended up amazing, and tellingly, far more amazing than the other guys you mention. All of those other guys are just cogs who work well within a team - I think both Gasol brothers and Manu deserve HOF status, but Kobe & Duncan they were not.

What I'd also point out is that to me all of this stuff really begins in earnest with Toni Kukoc who was hyped as Bird/Magic/Jordan already dominating as such...and who came to the NBA and played on a more Rubio/Gallo level. At the time Kukoc was being hyped, while there was skepticism, there wasn't yet cynicism. After Kukoc we got the trend of "Another Euro savior who will come here and just be adequate", and we've had a number of them - Rubio was one definitely lest we forget the way Timberwolf management routinely disrespected Kevin Love in the name of Rubio coming in and dominating the league.

That doesn't mean all Euros received this amount of hype. While Pau Gasol was highly rated, I don't recall any serious hype before the 2001 draft indicating he'd, say, win MVPs the way Kukoc/Rubio were, and so I'm not talking about Gasol here.

What I'm talking about is that with Luka we actually got someone with Kukoc-level hype...and if anything it seems like it undersold him. It's so cool to see this! And honestly, it makes me think we'll see more in the mold of Luka coming out of Europe in the future. Now that the whole world sees how devastating this particular flavor of European game can be in any context, you're going to try to play like Luka if you can.

Sure Luka's an outlier talent, but I think that part of the deal is that the NBA seeing Luka is going to allow NBA teams to visualize how they would use a Luka-like player. Frankly, you have to wonder what Kukoc would have become if he and his franchise had Luka as a model. It's possible he'd have been considerably more formidable.

Last note: You are drawing contrast between the Gasols of the world and the Darkos of the world, and that's a reasonable thing to do. I do think though that the reality is that every European failure has shaped the expectation of future Euro NBA players even when there isn't a whole lot in common in terms of the professional basketball history. It might seem crazy that Darko & co caused Luka to drop to the 3rd spot given what Luka was doing against legit pro competition...but I don't really have any doubt that they did.

The draft landscape for European players became a far bleaker place when Darko became a joke, bleaker still when Bargnani flopped as #1 pick (a choice that was seen as foolish at the time, but still hurt the Euro cause), and then when Rubio finally arrived and established himself merely as a journeyman to replaced by fringe all-stars who themselves weren't worth talking about, it got bleaker still. If those guys instead become superstars, Luka gets drafted 1st. End of story.

And now there's a new story. The quest for the next Luka begins in earnest now.

[Doctor MJ]

[
Who said Davis could be the goat? And I mean apart from homer backseat couch potato fans. .

it was a major talking point on here and many of the most respected posters were saying it fwiw.

I feel like I'm probably in the group you're talking about. I have to be honest I don't remember specifically what I said or when I said it.

What I definitely remember is that I was HUGE on Davis coming out of college. While most considered him a sub-Odin level prospect, to me he was the most enticing prospect since LeBron. But part of what was so intriguing about him was the way his game in Kentucky resembled Bill Russell...and while Davis has developed into an excellent defender, once it became clear he could score at volume that became the focus of his game.

When Davis had his breakthrough to MVP-candidacy in '14-15 I found myself excited on the whole but still a bit disappointed. While I could imagine Davis having the 2-way game to be the best in the game, I felt like his offensive ceiling was always going to be limited because of the fact that he wasn't a perimeter threat and he was dependent on guards to get him the ball. For this reason, while it's possible there are some quotes of me being more hyperbolic, my recollection at the time was of a gradually fading fanboy who thought that he might have GOAT talent, but wasn't putting his priorities right to be likely to get there.

I generally have some sense of "Who is the most exciting player in the game?". This tends to be someone who is an up & comer, but who has already "come up" a great deal, and so for example, in Davis' rookie year the most exciting player to me was still LeBron.

There's no doubt that by early '14-15 Davis had taken that mantle, but he gradually lost it to Steph Curry and never got it back.

This year has gone great for Davis on the Lakers, but well, there's just no denying that he doesn't seem like LeBron's equal even now.

For the record, after Steph, the 3 guys I'd single out are Harden, Giannis, and Jokic until now when it's clearly Luka (not as good as Giannis right now, but Giannis is so established he's in a different category).

[Dupp]

A thought:

I mock the Suns and the Kings for passing on Luka out of fear of a white stiff, but it's funny now that we've actually arrived at a moment I remember talked about back for decades. We've been promised these European players as being superhuman in various ways and again and again they've fallen short of the hype. (No disrespect to the Dirk Nowitzki's of the world, the issue isn't whether we get superstar talent from Europe but our inability to have any idea who actually has that capability before the draft.)

In Luka we finally have someone who has all the hype from Europe and then quickly demonstrates and improves upon what we hoped for. In this sense, it really does remind of LeBron. There's a similar sense of shock and someone being this in-command this quickly that I can't recall seeing from anyone.

Kinda highlights a huge scouting flaw nba teams have for non American players.

Still Donic was pretty available for everyone to watch and he was very hyped already. He wasn’t a secret basically and the signs of his development were well and truely there. Sure him reaching this level so fast wasn’t a realistic expectation but it’s still one of the all time worst passes by those teams.

Dallas getting luka with the 5th pick really is mind boggling. Well done to them but embarrassing for the other teams.

It’s just a shame mavs couldn’t get any help dorks whole career basically and a year after his retirement they pull this one out.

[Texas Chuck]

Dallas getting luka with the 5th pick really is mind boggling. Well done to them but embarrassing for the other teams.

It’s just a shame mavs couldn’t get any help dorks whole career basically and a year after his retirement they pull this one out.

yeah Dallas going into that draft with the 5th pick and walking away with Luka should have never been possible.


I think you are underestimating the help Dirk had. Now after Nash left in free agency he never had star level help again. But what Donnie did to re-shape the Mavs from an offense first and basically only team to a team truly built around Dirk was outstanding.

Remember the Mavs were touted as a big 3 with Finley as well, but they let Nash walk for nothing in the summer of 04 and the next summer they amnestied Finley losing him for nothing. And all they did was average over 60 wins a year including an absurd 67 wins in a season they started 0-4, meaning they played at over a 70 win pace after those first 4 games, and go to the Finals.

Now yes that success was mostly about Dirk being one of the best 2-3 players in the world at the time, but JET and Howard were good secondary scoring options. Damp/Diop a very solid defensive big combo, Griffin and Harris solid perimeter defenders, they always had pretty good depth.

Then of course after the 07 playoffs they really shifted and brought in Kidd and Marion, then made the big trade with Washington bringing in more quality depth in Tuff Juice, Hayward, and DeShawn and of course the move that put them over the top the Chandler deal.

Dirk had less star power help than any of his peers by far--even KG in Minnesota played a player better than anyone Dirk ever played with in 04 Cassell. But that doesn't mean he had no help. Dallas always paid tax until the new CBA after the lockout in 2011. Dallas was way ahead of the curve in terms of spending on analytics and huge coaching staffs. What almost every team now does, only Dallas under Cuban was doing.

Also just to be accurate they got Luka while Dirk was still here and I don't think that was any small thing or just a meaningless detail. Luka references Dirk a lot in talking about how to be a franchise player, how to work, how to embrace a city, etc.... Dirk was done as a player when Luka arrived, but still had plenty to show him. And of course despite his youth and self-confidence, Luka has shown himself willing to lean on the veterans---he also talks a lot about what Barea means as a guy who had to fight his way into the league, fight his way into minutes, and fight to stay in the league.

Current Mavs are a lot like those Dirk Mavs--no other star power though one can hope for KP to become that, but lots of guys around Luka who are quality players and who fit around him. Dallas definitely needs to upgrade, but this is nothing like Lebron last year playing with all those Laker kids who had a lot of hype but weren't nearly as effective as the current Mavs role players.

[Texas Chuck]

I feel like I'm probably in the group you're talking about. I have to be honest I don't remember specifically what I said or when I said it.

yeah you were definitely one, Dr Spaceman another, pretty sure drza and tsherkin were as well. I think a lot of it was he came in as you said as the best prospect since Lebron, but with this expectation that he would be dominant defensively and the offensive game would have to catch up, but when he was so quickly a terrific offensive player, people just assumed the defense would come right behind it and he would be the best player in the world.

KG was the natural comparison, and me a noted KG skeptic, was ironically one of the few guys not willing to state that AD was categorically going to have a better career--like on this board that was a foregone conclusion that AD was going to be a lot better over his career than KG. And remember many of these are the same posters that have KG > Duncan and who have KG as a top 3 player of all-time.

So yeah this board was collectively definitely having GOAT conversations about AD very early in his career.