Constructing the Timberwolves rotation

minimus · Post #61 » by **minimus** » Mon Dec 2, 2019 9:21 am

Just want to say that I really like our versality when we play Culver at SG/PG. Once we can get Layman back I expect more of KAT-KBD/Layman-RoCo-Culver/Okogie-Wiggins type of lineup.

minimus · Post #62 » by **minimus** » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:31 pm

Read on Twitter

minimus · Post #63 » by **minimus** » Tue Dec 3, 2019 6:41 pm

Read on Twitter

It makes me feel very comfortable with 1-3-1.

Post #64 » by **Klomp** » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:28 pm

minimus wrote:

Read on Twitter

It makes me feel very comfortable with 1-3-1.

Big part of it too is Robert Covington playing essentially the Al-Farouq Aminu role as a help defender in Vanterpool's defense. Really hoping to find another SF/PF to join him before next season (very well could be KBD), which could allow Layman to play more of a pure wing role.

Post #65 » by **Klomp** » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:47 pm

Right now, it wouldn't be a stretch in my mind to see next year the 5 manned by Towns and Reid and the 4 manned by Covington and Bates-Diop in the regular rotation.

That leaves four or five spots in the rotation for perimeter players, where there could be a bunch of minutes up for grabs depending on who stays and goes.

TheZachAttack · Post #66 » by **TheZachAttack** » Wed Dec 4, 2019 12:53 am

Klomp wrote:Right now, it wouldn't be a stretch in my mind to see next year the 5 manned by Towns and Reid and the 4 manned by Covington and Bates-Diop in the regular rotation.

That leaves four or five spots in the rotation for perimeter players, where there could be a bunch of minutes up for grabs depending on who stays and goes.

This is the way I see it too. I think Naz will obviously have his shortcomings and is not anywhere near KAT, but I like the idea of being able to keep the consistency between groups with how the Wolves like to play Towns at the top of the key/above the break and have him pass/shoot/set screens/run handoffs for wings from that position.

If KBD can continue to hit the corner 3 and slash against moving defenses I think he’ll be the 4 with Covington. It would be interesting to see the Wolves find another 4 (draft/trade/free agency?) and slide Cov to the 3, but I think there’s value as you said to what Covington does defensively inside with his mobility.

KBD/Layman/Napier to me are the finds that I’m noticing so far that I would like to keep around long term in roles. I’m hoping Naz can be another find and the same with Nowell. All of those guys playing 15-25 minutes would seem to be conducive to the system the Wolves want to play.

Napier/Nowel/Okogie/Layman/KBD/Naz in my mind is trending towards the kind of support you want around Wiggins/KAT/Covington.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #67 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Wed Dec 4, 2019 1:08 am

Roco/Kat/Wiggs/Culver will be the core of the team.

I think KBD slides in nicely as the 4 with roco moving up tp the 3. If Wiggs and KBD maintain this level of play, we have a good balance of size and shooting from 1 through 5.

Neid is the back up 5 because I think he has the tools to play a homeless version of kat in our system for a few minutes a game.
Nowell, is the guy Id like to see if the team can develop into a lou williams type of 6th man.

Then take BPA in the draft.

TheZachAttack · Post #68 » by **TheZachAttack** » Wed Dec 4, 2019 1:26 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:Roco/Kat/Wiggs/Culver will be the core of the team.

I think KBD slides in nicely as the 4 with roco moving up tp the 3. If Wiggs and KBD maintain this level of play, we have a good balance of size and shooting from 1 through 5.

Neid is the back up 5 because I think he has the tools to play a homeless version of kat in our system for a few minutes a game.
Nowell, is the guy Id like to see if the team can develop into a lou williams type of 6th man.

Then take BPA in the draft.

I agree, although the jury is still out on Culver but that is the goal. I think he’s shown more than his stats suggest and do think he can be at least a Covington type level piece.

I think prior to Wiggins emergence the next step and really only priority was figuring out how to get a 2nd star that could score and iso from the perimeter. With Wiggins emergence, I think the focus is finding complements around them. Covington is obviously a key piece. KBD seems to be developing into another key piece. Okogie the same. I think Layman is a piece as well.

The hope is that Naz can kind of mimic KAT at the 5 in a 15-20 minute game role off the bench. I think we are still trying to find our perimeter scoring threat off the bench that plays a role similar to Wiggins on the first unit. I think the hope is that Nowell can kind of be that guy. If not, they will be looking elsewhere.

I think the ideal version of the Wolves is one where all of these role players are playing 15-25 minutes a game and excel within a fit. I think Wiggins/Towns will likely be the only guys that get over 30 mpg.

Crazy-Canuck · Post #69 » by **Crazy-Canuck** » Wed Dec 4, 2019 1:34 am

TheZachAttack wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:Roco/Kat/Wiggs/Culver will be the core of the team.

I think KBD slides in nicely as the 4 with roco moving up tp the 3. If Wiggs and KBD maintain this level of play, we have a good balance of size and shooting from 1 through 5.

Neid is the back up 5 because I think he has the tools to play a homeless version of kat in our system for a few minutes a game.
Nowell, is the guy Id like to see if the team can develop into a lou williams type of 6th man.

Then take BPA in the draft.

I agree, although the jury is still out on Culver but that is the goal. I think he’s shown more than his stats suggest and do think he can be at least a Covington type level piece.

I think prior to Wiggins emergence the next step and really only priority was figuring out how to get a 2nd star that could score and iso from the perimeter. With Wiggins emergence, I think the focus is finding complements around them. Covington is obviously a key piece. KBD seems to be developing into another key piece. Okogie the same. I think Layman is a piece as well.

The hope is that Naz can kind of mimic KAT at the 5 in a 15-20 minute game role off the bench. I think we are still trying to find our perimeter scoring threat off the bench that plays a role similar to Wiggins on the first unit. I think the hope is that Nowell can kind of be that guy. If not, they will be looking elsewhere.

I think the ideal version of the Wolves is one where all of these role players are playing 15-25 minutes a game and excel within a fit. I think Wiggins/Towns will likely be the only guys that get over 30 mpg.

Culver doesnt look like a world beater, but I think he does enough to not hurt you.

His numbers with Kat/wiggs are quite good.

Our top 3 man units with at least 100 minutes played.

Wiggs/Kat/Culver + 15.5 net rtg
Wiggs/Cov/Culver + 15.1
Cov/KAT/Culver +10.4

If you bump it up to 150 minutes, cov/kat/wiggs is basically the only unit with a + net rtg

The numbers dont tell me that Culver is awesome, but they do tell me how detrimental teague has been this year on the floor.

Jedzz · Post #70 » by **Jedzz** » Wed Dec 4, 2019 2:39 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:Roco/Kat/Wiggs/Culver will be the core of the team.

I think KBD slides in nicely as the 4 with roco moving up tp the 3. If Wiggs and KBD maintain this level of play, we have a good balance of size and shooting from 1 through 5.

Neid is the back up 5 because I think he has the tools to play a homeless version of kat in our system for a few minutes a game.
Nowell, is the guy Id like to see if the team can develop into a lou williams type of 6th man.

Then take BPA in the draft.

If Nowell can be a sort of Lou Williams, this team is going somewhere fast.
Naz is kind of a Kat light, been saying it for a while. Just doesn't quite have the shoes and height to mimic him completely, and the height thing might create an issue for him at the 5 in this league.

TheZachAttack · Post #71 » by **TheZachAttack** » Wed Dec 4, 2019 3:02 am

Jedzz wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:Roco/Kat/Wiggs/Culver will be the core of the team.

I think KBD slides in nicely as the 4 with roco moving up tp the 3. If Wiggs and KBD maintain this level of play, we have a good balance of size and shooting from 1 through 5.

Neid is the back up 5 because I think he has the tools to play a homeless version of kat in our system for a few minutes a game.
Nowell, is the guy Id like to see if the team can develop into a lou williams type of 6th man.

Then take BPA in the draft.

If Nowell can be a sort of Lou Williams, this team is going somewhere fast.
Naz is kind of a Kat light, been saying it for a while. Just doesn't quite have the shoes and height to mimic him completely, and the height thing might create an issue for him at the 5 in this league.

I like the take. I agree 100% on the thoughts on Nowell. He’s the one guy in the pipeline who really flashes the ability to be a ball handler who can create offense at all 3 levels and shoot off the dribble or also space off ball similar to a lot of the good 6th men.

I will say that I agree with your thoughts on Naz but I will add that to me those limitations, in my mind, are what will potentially prevent him from him from becoming an above average starter in the NBA. However, to me those limitations are not limitations that will really cause him to get exposed at all playing primarily against backups in a 15 mpg role behind KAT.

Which is why I think we see (and a lot of us seem to agree) that Naz will be given a shot in a backup role next season. I think he’ll have a shot to do really well in a limited role against weaker players and his role will build from there. I think even if his height causes defensive limitations, the hope is that his offensive skillet (in the way that in a second unit can kind of mirror what Towns is asked to do at the top of the key as a shooter/facilitator/screener) is enough that he can really succeed in a role even if his limitations prevent him from becoming a great deal more than that.

I think that’s okay even if he doesn’t given become more than that given he can really excel in a role. I think one of the big keys for contending teams is players buying into and excelling within roles. Toronto is currently the prime example of that this season but there are many other good examples of this across time.

minimus · Post #72 » by **minimus** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:22 pm

Read on Twitter

Mattya · Post #73 » by **Mattya** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:43 pm

minimus wrote:

Read on Twitter

I think we will continue to see steady improvement. I would like to see him work with Chris Johnson this upcoming summer like Wiggins did.

minimus · Post #74 » by **minimus** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:42 am

Worth mention

Read on Twitter

Once Layman is back, Teagie is traded and Nowell getting minutes we will be fun again.

Jedzz · Post #75 » by **Jedzz** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:00 am

Trade Teague somewhere he'll be allowed to be himself for better fit.
Roll with this the rest of the year. Or at least a month to try it.

Wiggins - Point (offense)
Okogie - defending Guard
RoCo - SF! 3&D
Reid - PF (6'9) 3pt scoring beast (He's Kevin Love sized)
Towns - C whatever he wants to be

Bench brawlers
Napier - Point
Nowell - Guard (shooter) Culver (non shooter)
Layman - SF / KBD / (Martin if needed)
Bell/Dieng
Vonleh/Dieng

That starting group has bigtime shooters compared to our usual. Still has defense, Okogie/Roco/Wiggs. I think we would be in much better shape as far as starters go. The bench might struggle at times but will have a scoring threat with them and with the starters leading games by score Wolves should be alright. Off bench if you need a scorer you play Nowell. If you need length, cutting, and defense, play Culver. Decide on game to game basis.

Jedzz · Post #76 » by **Jedzz** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:03 am

Page one is getting silly to read now.

post0115 · Post #77 » by **post0115** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:51 pm

Until Layman returns...

Starters - 1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Graham, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, KBD, Culver, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Teague

2nd Half
1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Graham, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, KBD, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Teague

Minutes: KAT 40 minutes, Roco 36 minutes, Wiggins 36 minutes, Teague 32 minutes, Culver 22 minutes, Okogie 24 minutes, KBD 28 minutes, Napier 8-10 minutes, Graham 8-10 minutes, Dieng 8-10 minutes

I would also run load management on Teague on back-to-backs, etc.

Once Layman returns...

Starters - 1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Layman, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Layman, KBD, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Culver

2nd Half
1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Layman, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Layman, Roco, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Teague

Minutes: KAT 40 minutes, Roco 36 minutes, Wiggins 36 minutes, Teague 26 minutes, Culver 22 minutes, Okogie 24 minutes, KBD 22 minutes, Napier 8-10 minutes, Graham 0 minutes, Dieng 8-10 minutes, Layman 20 minutes

minimus · Post #78 » by **minimus** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:09 pm

KAT, Wiggins should not play more than 35 mpg. RoCo should play less than 30 mpg

minimus · Post #79 » by **minimus** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:19 pm

Yeah, that's perhaps harder than it sounds. Big guys are always dependent to some degree on guards to get them the ball. No one on the Wolves can throw a functional entry pass.

There are a bunch of reasons Minnesota has lost six straight, including games against Oklahoma City, Phoenix and Utah with potential playoff implications. Not enough Towns is one of them.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28243840/ten-nba-things-like-including-miami-motion-blur

At 1.36 Points Per Possession at en EFG% of 70.4%, there is no better shot in the NBA than a spot-up shot from Kat. He leads the league in PPP, EFG%, and Percentile.

Jedzz · Post #80 » by **Jedzz** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:24 pm

post0115 wrote:Until Layman returns...

Starters - 1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Graham, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, KBD, Culver, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Teague

2nd Half
1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Graham, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, KBD, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Teague

Minutes: KAT 40 minutes, Roco 36 minutes, Wiggins 36 minutes, Teague 32 minutes, Culver 22 minutes, Okogie 24 minutes, KBD 28 minutes, Napier 8-10 minutes, Graham 8-10 minutes, Dieng 8-10 minutes

I would also run load management on Teague on back-to-backs, etc.

Once Layman returns...

Starters - 1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Layman, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Layman, KBD, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Culver

2nd Half
1st 7-8 minutes: KAT, Roco, KBD, Culver, Wiggins
End of Q1 (4-5 minutes): Dieng, Layman, Wiggins, Napier, Teague
Start of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Layman, Roco, Okogie, Teague
End of Q2 (6 minutes): KAT, Roco, Wiggins, Okogie, Teague

Minutes: KAT 40 minutes, Roco 36 minutes, Wiggins 36 minutes, Teague 26 minutes, Culver 22 minutes, Okogie 24 minutes, KBD 22 minutes, Napier 8-10 minutes, Graham 0 minutes, Dieng 8-10 minutes, Layman 20 minutes

This is purely my opinion but I give this a D-. This is more of what's been happening and a lot that is wrong with what has been happening. I think all you did is swap KBD for Graham's old starting minutes.