Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
- azcatz11
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Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
I'm not trying to pile on this guy but why? A smallish PG and honestly he was good at Syracuse but not great. He wasn't a hugely highly touted HS player either and doesn't have elite athleticism or shooting.
What on earth were the Cavs thinking with this pick?
Looking for devils advocate opinions if possible
What on earth were the Cavs thinking with this pick?
Looking for devils advocate opinions if possible
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
Not a fan...but ok.
As a shooter/scorer, he was as good or better than the other wings drafted in the top 10 (Beal, Ross, and Barnes) and a better playmaker than all of them. He was about equal as a defender as well.
Like Beal, he was somewhat a jack of all trades, master of none type player. Beal simply has a much higher IQ and work ethic.
His college stats line up with other guards drafted between 5-10 over the last 7-8 years (Knight, Smart, KCP, Murray, etc.)
As a shooter/scorer, he was as good or better than the other wings drafted in the top 10 (Beal, Ross, and Barnes) and a better playmaker than all of them. He was about equal as a defender as well.
Like Beal, he was somewhat a jack of all trades, master of none type player. Beal simply has a much higher IQ and work ethic.
His college stats line up with other guards drafted between 5-10 over the last 7-8 years (Knight, Smart, KCP, Murray, etc.)
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
He didn't do workouts, and as you'll see in the leadup to this draft as well as any other, the players who play the most have the most opportunity to have their weaknesses picked over. This was also very early in the advanced stats era where "more steals = good player" qualified as sage advice even though Waiters was just playing the passing lanes in a zone defense in college.
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
pcbothwel wrote:Not a fan...but ok.
As a shooter/scorer, he was as good or better than the other wings drafted in the top 10 (Beal, Ross, and Barnes) and a better playmaker than all of them. He was about equal as a defender as well.
Like Beal, he was somewhat a jack of all trades, master of none type player. Beal simply has a much higher IQ and work ethic.
His college stats line up with other guards drafted between 5-10 over the last 7-8 years (Knight, Smart, KCP, Murray, etc.)
You're right. I didn't realize KCP was drafted that high either or else I wouldn't have created this thread. I just thought he was an extreme outlier but I'm wrong
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
Because Byron Scott thought having 2 ball dominant guards who can score in multiple ways would be good together...
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
Cavs used analytics and thought they had a potential two way steals when the game tape was never that good and he just never looked that smart on either end of the court. Most people didn't even have him going in the lottery.
That said, as someone mentioned, this was during the early years of analytics. Nowadays, analytics would have seen who he is for what he is.
That said, as someone mentioned, this was during the early years of analytics. Nowadays, analytics would have seen who he is for what he is.
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
azcatz11 wrote:pcbothwel wrote:Not a fan...but ok.
As a shooter/scorer, he was as good or better than the other wings drafted in the top 10 (Beal, Ross, and Barnes) and a better playmaker than all of them. He was about equal as a defender as well.
Like Beal, he was somewhat a jack of all trades, master of none type player. Beal simply has a much higher IQ and work ethic.
His college stats line up with other guards drafted between 5-10 over the last 7-8 years (Knight, Smart, KCP, Murray, etc.)
You're right. I didn't realize KCP was drafted that high either or else I wouldn't have created this thread. I just thought he was an extreme outlier but I'm wrong
He was an outlier. Don't let that man fool you, he wasn't supposed to go that high. Many scouts questioned his potential and NBA readiness from the jump. For KCP and Beal's lack of shooting and playmaking skills, Beal showed that he has the ability draw fouls at UF and to score at a dominant level as a prep and KCP showed he could defend better than all three.
Scouts say time and time again that Beal would pro than college player which happened. Scouts questioned KCP shooting but they felt he helped in other areas offensively and he could be an all NBA defender which hasn't happened yet. Most scouts seen Waiters as a 6th man, Cleveland saw more. Waiters reached that level for a short period with Miami before injuries derailed him
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
King Ken wrote:Cavs used analytics and thought they had a potential two way steals when the game tape was never that good and he just never looked that smart on either end of the court. Most people didn't even have him going in the lottery.
That said, as someone mentioned, this was during the early years of analytics. Nowadays, analytics would have seen who he is for what he is.
The irony of that is that Jerry West also decided Waiters had the 'it' factor, which I think led other teams to value him even more. Just goes to show that even the best get it wrong sometimes.
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
nolang1 wrote:King Ken wrote:Cavs used analytics and thought they had a potential two way steals when the game tape was never that good and he just never looked that smart on either end of the court. Most people didn't even have him going in the lottery.
That said, as someone mentioned, this was during the early years of analytics. Nowadays, analytics would have seen who he is for what he is.
The irony of that is that Waiters was also someone Jerry West decided had the 'it' factor, which I think led other teams to value him even more. Just goes to show that even the best get it wrong sometimes.
He did a killer instinct at Cuse and even at times in the NBA but West really missed on his lack of BBIQ. It's strange as West is usually great at catching that
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
King Ken wrote:nolang1 wrote:King Ken wrote:Cavs used analytics and thought they had a potential two way steals when the game tape was never that good and he just never looked that smart on either end of the court. Most people didn't even have him going in the lottery.
That said, as someone mentioned, this was during the early years of analytics. Nowadays, analytics would have seen who he is for what he is.
The irony of that is that Waiters was also someone Jerry West decided had the 'it' factor, which I think led other teams to value him even more. Just goes to show that even the best get it wrong sometimes.
He did a killer instinct at Cuse and even at times in the NBA but West really missed on his lack of BBIQ. It's strange as West is usually great at catching that
waiters rode an incredibly lethal 6th man role offensively straight into byron scotts head and the cavs front office at the time was terrible at player assessment even though this pick was explained away as positional need, i mean they got the kyrie pick right but there were several fools in that war room that wanted williams.then with the waiters selection
they drafted a prospect with proven scoring ability on ball to play off ball next to a ball dominant on ball guard. duh
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
azcatz11 wrote:I'm not trying to pile on this guy but why? A smallish PG and honestly he was good at Syracuse but not great. He wasn't a hugely highly touted HS player either and doesn't have elite athleticism or shooting.
What on earth were the Cavs thinking with this pick?
Looking for devils advocate opinions if possible
The Cavs didn’t exactly reach here, a lot of draft experts loved his potential and had him going in that range or just a bit lower during the draft. This wasn’t exactly an Anthony Bennett like jaw dropper.
And I don’t think talent is Waiters problem, he’s got a scorers mentality but the handle and the inside/outside game necessary to pull it off. Plus he as the athleticism and strength to be a plus defender. His issues are in no particular order: a terrible attitude, an inflated ego, a poor bball IQ which leads to his terrible shot selection and he never worked hard off the court to get into great shape.
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April 14th, 2019.
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
He did get a lot of steals and was pretty efficient in college I think, their "analytics" were high on him, though I'm not quite sure what analytics those were. The inefficiency/shot selection didn't really show up in college I think.
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
I remember he was a reach even at a time, it was the time CAVS tried to outsmart everyone reaching on Thompson, Waiters and of course Bennett.
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
In a weird way I feel like, if he was developed right and didn't have top-5 pick expectations, he could have been sorta like a big guard version of Bobby Jackson. Albeit IDK if the energy was there.
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
He was strong and quick for his size and it looked like he could get to the rim at a very high level, and also had plenty of potential as a shooter. Was a perfectly good three-level scorer prospect, and he also played his limited role well at Syracuse and seemed likely to be able to do more at the next level. He was a very solid top-10 pick, just turned out to be kinda knucklehead and didn't reach any potential.
He wasn't a weird pick, and people saying he was 'reach' should clarify that he was a pretty clear top-10 pick that happened to go a few spots higher than most thought but that wasn't definitely a worse prospect than guys taken within the next couple of picks. (It wouldn't have been crazy for the Cavs to take Rui at #5 this year right?)
He wasn't a weird pick, and people saying he was 'reach' should clarify that he was a pretty clear top-10 pick that happened to go a few spots higher than most thought but that wasn't definitely a worse prospect than guys taken within the next couple of picks. (It wouldn't have been crazy for the Cavs to take Rui at #5 this year right?)
Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
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Re: Why was Dion Waiters the 4th overall pick?
The pick made no sense on paper, but neither did taking Russell Westbrook at #4 in 2008. Sometimes you take a gamble on guys with quirky college careers if they happened to be powerfully built athletes.