Trade Ideas Thread, 2019-20

[100proof]

Outgoing:

Gordon Hayward
Romeo Langford
Robert Williams
Mem pick
Bos 2020 2nd round pick

Incoming:

KAT
Jake Layman
Noah Vonleh

If KAT demands out does anyone do this or something similar?

If he demands out then a deal around hayward(expiring former allstar who can put up very good stats) romeo(lotto pick) robert williams (lottery talent) memphis pick (potential high top 10) bostons 2020 first and bucks 2020 first. No one comes close to that offer.

I'd think the Warriors would offer up their first(top5)/Russell, Suns would offer up Ayton plus, N.O. anything outside Zion(Ingram/Ball), etc.... I think there be a lot of teams would better headliners in a deal. I don't see why Minny would want Gordon, he prob opts out and walks at the end of the season.

Hayward walking is why they would want him.

A rebuilding team with capspace to absorb bad contract tied to picks is a huge asset.

[MagicBagley18]

If he demands out then a deal around hayward(expiring former allstar who can put up very good stats) romeo(lotto pick) robert williams (lottery talent) memphis pick (potential high top 10) bostons 2020 first and bucks 2020 first. No one comes close to that offer.

I'd think the Warriors would offer up their first(top5)/Russell, Suns would offer up Ayton plus, N.O. anything outside Zion(Ingram/Ball), etc.... I think there be a lot of teams would better headliners in a deal. I don't see why Minny would want Gordon, he prob opts out and walks at the end of the season.

Hayward walking is why they would want him.

A rebuilding team with capspace to absorb bad contract tied to picks is a huge asset.

They are giving up a 24 year old franchise player with potential to be top 10- they want more than an expiring contract in Hayward. They need to get a foundational player in return or something comparable. U got the draft pick compensation right but u need brown. Hayward ain’t getting it done

[Darth Celtic]

He's gonna be an all-star so that doesn't mean he would of failed my expectations.

Look at the jump Jaylen Brown made from 22 to 23 years old. Brown is only going to get better.

Tatum at 23-24 years old is going to look nothing like Tatum at 21 years old. The fact that him and Brown could be all-stars now is gravy.

This made me wonder what portion of superstars were All-stars by their 4th season. My gut was is it's pretty high. Obviously, with 19 years olds coming in, it's going to be a little lower. But, I think the guys that take longer to blossom end up in that next tier - your Jimmy Butler level guys. But true superstars get their earlier. LeBron, Doncic, AD, KD, super early. Giannis, Harden were 4th season. Steph 5th, so he's the exception. That's gonna be the extent of my exhaustive research.

But it seems to be a top ten player, it would behoove you to be an all-star on your rookie contract.

KWL didn't make all start till 15/16 season and was drafted 11/12 season. He did make finals MVP and defensive player of the year the two years prior.

[100proof]

I'd think the Warriors would offer up their first(top5)/Russell, Suns would offer up Ayton plus, N.O. anything outside Zion(Ingram/Ball), etc.... I think there be a lot of teams would better headliners in a deal. I don't see why Minny would want Gordon, he prob opts out and walks at the end of the season.

Hayward walking is why they would want him.

A rebuilding team with capspace to absorb bad contract tied to picks is a huge asset.

They are giving up a 24 year old franchise player with potential to be top 10- they want more than an expiring contract in Hayward. They need to get a foundational player in return or something comparable. U got the draft pick compensation right but u need brown. Hayward ain’t getting it done

Kawhi and davis both went for less.
Ingram has improved, but at the time of deal there was the possibility he would never play again.

[Gomes3PC]

Tatum, year 3 (age 21):
21 PPG, 7 RPG, 2.9 APG, 2.1 Stocks, 2.3 turnovers, 53% TS%, 18 PER, 22% FTr

Paul George, year 3 (age 22):
17.4 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 4.1 APG, 2.4 Stocks, 2.9 turnovers, 53% TS%, 17 PER, 23% FTr

Tell me again why Tatum can't become Paul George? Is that enough on its own to win a title? No. But it's absolutely enough to be 1B on a title-caliber team, the same way Paul Pierce was.

[Gomes3PC]

Tatum and Brown have never been the #1 option on their team. Celtics have always had an IT, Irving or Kemba since they entered the league

Tatum is arguably the #1 option right now— he averages over a shot more per game than Kemba.

Guess it depends on what you're thinking of as #1 option. Kemba's got the ball in his hands a lot more and I think the team is far more dependent on his ability to break down the D than Tatum. However, Stevens clearly is grooming Tatum for that, as he's been the guy working with the bench in a similar role to what Kemba does with the starters. It's splitting hairs though - they are 1A/1B, with Jaylen and Hayward 2A/2B.

[MagicBagley18]

Hayward walking is why they would want him.

A rebuilding team with capspace to absorb bad contract tied to picks is a huge asset.

They are giving up a 24 year old franchise player with potential to be top 10- they want more than an expiring contract in Hayward. They need to get a foundational player in return or something comparable. U got the draft pick compensation right but u need brown. Hayward ain’t getting it done

Kawhi and davis both went for less.
Ingram has improved, but at the time of deal there was the possibility he would never play again.

Ya they were 1 year rentals....your getting this guy on 4 or 3 year deal and Davis went to the lakers for a haul

[100proof]

They are giving up a 24 year old franchise player with potential to be top 10- they want more than an expiring contract in Hayward. They need to get a foundational player in return or something comparable. U got the draft pick compensation right but u need brown. Hayward ain’t getting it done

Kawhi and davis both went for less.
Ingram has improved, but at the time of deal there was the possibility he would never play again.

Ya they were 1 year rentals....your getting this guy on 4 or 3 year deal and Davis went to the lakers for a haul

1 year deals but top 3 players.

Kat might be top 10.

[MagicBagley18]

Kawhi and davis both went for less.
Ingram has improved, but at the time of deal there was the possibility he would never play again.

Ya they were 1 year rentals....your getting this guy on 4 or 3 year deal and Davis went to the lakers for a haul

1 year deals but top 3 players.

Kat might be top 10.

Whose 24 and hasn’t hit his prime yet...more years = more return

[djFan71]

Look at the jump Jaylen Brown made from 22 to 23 years old. Brown is only going to get better.

Tatum at 23-24 years old is going to look nothing like Tatum at 21 years old. The fact that him and Brown could be all-stars now is gravy.

This made me wonder what portion of superstars were All-stars by their 4th season. My gut was is it's pretty high. Obviously, with 19 years olds coming in, it's going to be a little lower. But, I think the guys that take longer to blossom end up in that next tier - your Jimmy Butler level guys. But true superstars get their earlier. LeBron, Doncic, AD, KD, super early. Giannis, Harden were 4th season. Steph 5th, so he's the exception. That's gonna be the extent of my exhaustive research.

But it seems to be a top ten player, it would behoove you to be an all-star on your rookie contract.

KWL didn't make all start till 15/16 season and was drafted 11/12 season. He did make finals MVP and defensive player of the year the two years prior.

Do you think that’s just another exception, or that the premise is wrong?

[Roddy]

More rebounding, more spacing. Better bench. Less defense.

Holmes / Kanter / RWIII
Tatum / Bjelica
Brown / Grant W
Hayward / Bogdanovic / Romeo
Kemba / Wanamaker

[Scarletfire81]

The more I think about it the less I want to trade Brown or Tatum for anyone really. I say we keep Kemba, Brown and Tatum together and try to find an elite defender at the center position. We don’t need a elite scorer at that position, defense and rebounding are much more important. KAT is not a strong defender.

[SmartWentCrazy]

More rebounding, more spacing. Better bench. Less defense.

Holmes / Kanter / RWIII
Tatum / Bjelica
Brown / Grant W
Hayward / Bogdanovic / Romeo
Kemba / Wanamaker

I’m not sure that Holmes is anything other than a marginal improvement over Theis. I’m not interested in sacrificing a DPOY candidate and a pick for this upgrade.

Also, no interest in Bogdan— he’s going to get a massive contract this summer as an RFA. He’d be a great fit in Memphis, NO or Atlanta and all of those teams would willingly overpay for him cuz they know we wouldnt match for a backup wing.

[mwhis21]

Hayward walking is why they would want him.

A rebuilding team with capspace to absorb bad contract tied to picks is a huge asset.

They are giving up a 24 year old franchise player with potential to be top 10- they want more than an expiring contract in Hayward. They need to get a foundational player in return or something comparable. U got the draft pick compensation right but u need brown. Hayward ain’t getting it done

Kawhi and davis both went for less.
Ingram has improved, but at the time of deal there was the possibility he would never play again.

Stop it. Neither went for less.

[Darth Celtic]

This made me wonder what portion of superstars were All-stars by their 4th season. My gut was is it's pretty high. Obviously, with 19 years olds coming in, it's going to be a little lower. But, I think the guys that take longer to blossom end up in that next tier - your Jimmy Butler level guys. But true superstars get their earlier. LeBron, Doncic, AD, KD, super early. Giannis, Harden were 4th season. Steph 5th, so he's the exception. That's gonna be the extent of my exhaustive research.

But it seems to be a top ten player, it would behoove you to be an all-star on your rookie contract.

KWL didn't make all start till 15/16 season and was drafted 11/12 season. He did make finals MVP and defensive player of the year the two years prior.

Do you think that’s just another exception, or that the premise is wrong?

leaning more toward the wrong because kids are being drafted at 18-19 years old. It takes to 23-25 years old to start showing a finished project.

I think maybe just the definition of superstar is the problem. I'm thinking more trancendent talent. You know if you have a trancendent within the first year or 2. Duncan ,AD, Lebron, KD. What also helps is that trancendent talents are normally drafted top 2 picks and play on just terrible teams and get to play 35 mpg from rookie year on which helps them make the all star games faster with "stats" and all. the superstars that are drafted later in the draft don't always get big mins right away. They play on slighly better teams and have to earn the mins.

I would imagine we'd be having a lot less who is better, JT or JB conversations if we really were as bad as the Nets and played them both from day one 35 mpg together rookie year forward. Poor JB never got close to that chance.

[100proof]

They are giving up a 24 year old franchise player with potential to be top 10- they want more than an expiring contract in Hayward. They need to get a foundational player in return or something comparable. U got the draft pick compensation right but u need brown. Hayward ain’t getting it done

Kawhi and davis both went for less.
Ingram has improved, but at the time of deal there was the possibility he would never play again.

Stop it. Neither went for less.

not much of a rebuttal there.

Tatum or Brown, langford, smart, and multiple picks and a lotto pick are far more than:
Demar Derozan, Jakob Poeltl and a late first rounder
or
Ball (major disappointment), Ingram(blot clots and not cleared to play in NBA at the time of deal), josh Heart (meh) and 3 first rounders
(1 of them pick 4 in last yeras draft)

I personally value Smart far more than Ball and Hart, the memphis pick as equal to the top 4 pick, the other picks as a wash and this years tatum as FAR superior to last yeas Ingram.

[MagicBagley18]

Kawhi and davis both went for less.
Ingram has improved, but at the time of deal there was the possibility he would never play again.

Stop it. Neither went for less.

not much of a rebuttal there.

Tatum or Brown, langford, smart, and multiple picks and a lotto pick are far more than:
Demar Derozan, Jakob Poeltl and a late first rounder
or
Ball (major disappointment), Ingram(blot clots and not cleared to play in NBA at the time of deal), josh Heart (meh) and 3 first rounders
(1 of them pick 4 in last yeras draft)

I personally value Smart far more than Ball and Hart, the memphis pick as equal to the top 4 pick, the other picks as a wash and this years tatum as FAR superior to last yeas Ingram.

You do understand that the 2 scenarios are apples to oranges and not apples to apples? Completely different AD and kawhi were rentals on 1 year deals, so they could essentially dictate where they went by informing interested teams that they would never ever re-sign with them. They could kill deals on site. 2-3 teams tops were in the negotiations.

With KAT he’s locked up for several more years and therefore the team trading him and the team he’s traded to have leverage. Since he’s on a long term deal, teams that normally wouldn’t risk mortgaging the future will take a chance on trading for him- which will raise his value and have more teams in the running for him. More people bidding- the higher the price.

[djFan71]

KWL didn't make all start till 15/16 season and was drafted 11/12 season. He did make finals MVP and defensive player of the year the two years prior.

Do you think that’s just another exception, or that the premise is wrong?

leaning more toward the wrong because kids are being drafted at 18-19 years old. It takes to 23-25 years old to start showing a finished project.

I think maybe just the definition of superstar is the problem. I'm thinking more trancendent talent. You know if you have a trancendent within the first year or 2. Duncan ,AD, Lebron, KD. What also helps is that trancendent talents are normally drafted top 2 picks and play on just terrible teams and get to play 35 mpg from rookie year on which helps them make the all star games faster with "stats" and all. the superstars that are drafted later in the draft don't always get big mins right away. They play on slighly better teams and have to earn the mins.

I would imagine we'd be having a lot less who is better, JT or JB conversations if we really were as bad as the Nets and played them both from day one 35 mpg together rookie year forward. Poor JB never got close to that chance.

Yeah, I was talking transcendent - but even then you have the exceptions like Steph & Kawhi. The Butler-level guys can emerge after years of obscurity and improvement. I definitely agree with guys coming in so young and mentioned that originally, and playing time is a huge deal. I'm not even super tied to this theory - rookie contract is a pretty arbitrary thing. Age might be a better line. Or X number of minutes played, etc.

[100proof]

Stop it. Neither went for less.

not much of a rebuttal there.

Tatum or Brown, langford, smart, and multiple picks and a lotto pick are far more than:
Demar Derozan, Jakob Poeltl and a late first rounder
or
Ball (major disappointment), Ingram(blot clots and not cleared to play in NBA at the time of deal), josh Heart (meh) and 3 first rounders
(1 of them pick 4 in last yeras draft)

I personally value Smart far more than Ball and Hart, the memphis pick as equal to the top 4 pick, the other picks as a wash and this years tatum as FAR superior to last yeas Ingram.

You do understand that the 2 scenarios are apples to oranges and not apples to apples? Completely different AD and kawhi were rentals on 1 year deals, so they could essentially dictate where they went by informing interested teams that they would never ever re-sign with them. They could kill deals on site. 2-3 teams tops were in the negotiations.

With KAT he’s locked up for several more years and therefore the team trading him and the team he’s traded to have leverage. Since he’s on a long term deal, teams that normally wouldn’t risk mortgaging the future will take a chance on trading for him- which will raise his value and have more teams in the running for him. More people bidding- the higher the price.

I dont see that holding the value it once did.
Phantom injuries, further demad for trades, etc, reduces the value of players om longer deals.

That might be just me though.

And like other have posted, i also think that although I absolurely LOVE kat, i think this team is a defensive bigman away from true contention. Not a player that requires lots of touches taking away from what currently works.

Our 1-4 has the potential to be the best in the league, why break that up when what is needed is more of a role player.

I offer hayward, romeo, robert and picks. Max. And I also believe it could potentially be the best offer minny gets.

[100proof]

Wonder if Gobert ever wants out