Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

[HomoSapien]

How can you not love Jimmy Butler? I can't believe this organization screwed it up so badly with him in his prime.

To this day, it was a colossal mistake. He was the first healthy all star(other than the 3 years of Rose)after Pippen/MJ and they couldn't wait to trade him because of all controllable issues.

It's such a head scratching thing to me, because year after year they get accused of overvaluing their own guys. Jimmy Butler was their draft pick and made them look like absolute geniuses, and yet of all the guys to undervalue, they picked him.

[johnnyvann840]

Holy crap, anyone see Embiid's hand injury. Looks nasty. Hard to watch...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/joel-embiid-injury-update-76ers-all-star-center-has-a-torn-ligament-in-his-left-hand-no-timetable-for-return/

[johnnyvann840]

How can you not love Jimmy Butler? I can't believe this organization screwed it up so badly with him in his prime.

To this day, it was a colossal mistake. He was the first healthy all star(other than the 3 years of Rose)after Pippen/MJ and they couldn't wait to trade him because of all controllable issues.

I miss JB.. at least he's never boring. This Bulls team is nothing but boring

[kulaz3000]

How can you not love Jimmy Butler? I can't believe this organization screwed it up so badly with him in his prime.

I honestly don't think they wanted to trade him when it's all said and done. I think it was the inevitable contract (in hindsight probably worth it, though a tough pill to swallow considering his age), but I truly think that he would have left through free agency or once signed to the max contract, eventually demanded a trade. I think the Bulls management saw the writing on the wall with him.

Perhaps I'm giving the Bulls front office the benefit of the doubt which they don't deserve, but he is a player that nurtured from a defensive specialist to the player he became, I can't imagine that they were actively trying to push him out the door, just because of a few antics he showed at the latter part of his tenure him. It was the pending super max and him perhaps not even wanting to resign or not being happy which I think forced their hand. Again, that's my guess.

I'm wrong though, because I thought it was going to be difficult to build around him as a super max player, but players like him don't grow on trees. He may not be a top 10 player, but he is on the cusp and when you have those types of players on your roster, you do everything you can to keep them on the team, and if you trade him, you better get something of equal value and we didn't.

[Ice Man]

Holy crap, anyone see Embiid's hand injury. Looks nasty. Hard to watch...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/joel-embiid-injury-update-76ers-all-star-center-has-a-torn-ligament-in-his-left-hand-no-timetable-for-return/

Surgery and out indefinitely. Bad luck for the Sixers. In honesty, I expected Embiid to get hurt, but I thought it would be his knees, given his history and weight. Nope. Well, at least the Sixers shouldn't have any trouble making the playoffs, although they might well have a tough seed.

[johnnyvann840]

Holy crap, anyone see Embiid's hand injury. Looks nasty. Hard to watch...

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/joel-embiid-injury-update-76ers-all-star-center-has-a-torn-ligament-in-his-left-hand-no-timetable-for-return/

Surgery and out indefinitely. Bad luck for the Sixers. In honesty, I expected Embiid to get hurt, but I thought it would be his knees, given his history and weight. Nope. Well, at least the Sixers shouldn't have any trouble making the playoffs, although they might well have a tough seed.

They were already foundering losing 4 of their last 5 games and have barely been .500 since December 1st. The East is so terrible though, they would have to really stink it up to get below 6th at this point. But, I don't see that team doing anything in the playoffs anyway without Jimmy carrying them like last season's playoffs. They just aren't that good. Embiid and Simmons are not enough. Simmons is a liability in the playoffs because he can't shoot.

[kingkirk]

I saw the clip of the Warren/Butler argument, and I'm still not sure what the hell Jimmy is arguing about. Warren didn't even do anything to him before he got up in his face. I didn't watch the game, so I don't know if there was anything that lead up to that moment, but his response to what happened seems like a crazy, way over-the-top reaction.

Also, I find it funny he said this while only scoring 14 points... Jimmy Butler loves himself some Jimmy Butler.

Butler scored 14 on 5-6 shooting and barely played because the Heat crushed the Pacers. And this beef dates back to their previous game.

[kingkirk]

How can you not love Jimmy Butler? I can't believe this organization screwed it up so badly with him in his prime.

I honestly don't think they wanted to trade him when it's all said and done. I think it was the inevitable contract (in hindsight probably worth it, though a tough pill to swallow considering his age), but I truly think that he would have left through free agency or once signed to the max contract, eventually demanded a trade. I think the Bulls management saw the writing on the wall with him.

Perhaps I'm giving the Bulls front office the benefit of the doubt which they don't deserve, but he is a player that nurtured from a defensive specialist to the player he became, I can't imagine that they were actively trying to push him out the door, just because of a few antics he showed at the latter part of his tenure him. It was the pending super max and him perhaps not even wanting to resign or not being happy which I think forced their hand. Again, that's my guess.

I'm wrong though, because I thought it was going to be difficult to build around him as a super max player, but players like him don't grow on trees. He may not be a top 10 player, but he is on the cusp and when you have those types of players on your roster, you do everything you can to keep them on the team, and if you trade him, you better get something of equal value and we didn't.

I definitely do think you're giving management too much credit.

Butler never wanted to leave Chicago. There's evidence to the contrary. He wanted to be here. He didn't want to be traded. He still has ties here. He does charity stuff here. He's not from Chicago but he's from Chicago.

He wasn't going to leave if they paid him, and there's no reason to believe that a) he would have qualified for the supermax and b) even if he did, they didn't have to offer him the full thing.

[johnnyvann840]

Nice win for the Sixers, without Embiid, against Boston.

[Dan Z]

How can you not love Jimmy Butler? I can't believe this organization screwed it up so badly with him in his prime.

I honestly don't think they wanted to trade him when it's all said and done. I think it was the inevitable contract (in hindsight probably worth it, though a tough pill to swallow considering his age), but I truly think that he would have left through free agency or once signed to the max contract, eventually demanded a trade. I think the Bulls management saw the writing on the wall with him.

Perhaps I'm giving the Bulls front office the benefit of the doubt which they don't deserve, but he is a player that nurtured from a defensive specialist to the player he became, I can't imagine that they were actively trying to push him out the door, just because of a few antics he showed at the latter part of his tenure him. It was the pending super max and him perhaps not even wanting to resign or not being happy which I think forced their hand. Again, that's my guess.

I'm wrong though, because I thought it was going to be difficult to build around him as a super max player, but players like him don't grow on trees. He may not be a top 10 player, but he is on the cusp and when you have those types of players on your roster, you do everything you can to keep them on the team, and if you trade him, you better get something of equal value and we didn't.

I definitely do think you're giving management too much credit.

Butler never wanted to leave Chicago. There's evidence to the contrary. He wanted to be here. He didn't want to be traded. He still has ties here. He does charity stuff here. He's not from Chicago but he's from Chicago.

He wasn't going to leave if they paid him, and there's no reason to believe that a) he would have qualified for the supermax and b) even if he did, they didn't have to offer him the full thing.

I always thought that the two reasons why they traded him were his future contract and that they screwed up building around him. The team at that time didn't look like it'd be able to find a second star to go with him and most of that stems from the mistake of trading up for McDermott.

Looking back I now think they should've kept him, paid him, and did whatever they could to improve the team around him. But just like this new year...hindsight is 20/20.

[Ice Man]

I just looked up ESPN's real plus/minus scores. LeBron has the highest score I have ever seen, +10.34. If you had five LeBrons at all time, per that stat, you'd outscore the opponent by an average of 51.5 points per 100 possessions!

The top 5, get ready to cry, are -

LeBron
Harden
Giannis
Kawhi
Butler

[johnnyvann840]

I just looked up ESPN's real plus/minus scores. LeBron has the highest score I have ever seen, +10.34. If you had five LeBrons at all time, per that stat, you'd outscore the opponent by an average of 51.5 points per 100 possessions!

The top 5, get ready to cry, are -

LeBron
Harden
Giannis
Kawhi
Butler

Jimmy has always been near the top of the league in RPM, so no surprise. Where are Bulls players?

[johnnyvann840]

Wow... Kris Dunn is 27th and the highest ranked Bulls player. Makes sense, I think he is easily the Bulls highest positive impact player this season.

[Ice Man]

Jimmy has always been near the top of the league in RPM, so no surprise. Where are Bulls players?

Dunn is 27th, the highest a Bull has been in a long time. Of course it's hard to compare role-player results to guys who lead their teams, but Dunn has been a master blitzer. Then comes Shaq and Val but their minutes are tiny. Sato is 3rd among guys who play at #80, and WCJ at #97. That is it for Bulls in the top 100.

RPM rewards two-way players and guys who don't make a lot of mistakes (or if they do, like Harden, they do other things really well), so guys who score 25 ppg per game don't necessarily rate well. For example, Zach is #111 and Andrew Wiggins #194.

Not gospel, of course. But hard to argue with the top 5 list, aside from Luka not being there. He's 4th on offense, but only 18th overall because of his defensive rating. Maybe that's fair, maybe not. At any rate, he's so young, he will surely improve his defense.

[Mech Engineer]

I honestly don't think they wanted to trade him when it's all said and done. I think it was the inevitable contract (in hindsight probably worth it, though a tough pill to swallow considering his age), but I truly think that he would have left through free agency or once signed to the max contract, eventually demanded a trade. I think the Bulls management saw the writing on the wall with him.

Perhaps I'm giving the Bulls front office the benefit of the doubt which they don't deserve, but he is a player that nurtured from a defensive specialist to the player he became, I can't imagine that they were actively trying to push him out the door, just because of a few antics he showed at the latter part of his tenure him. It was the pending super max and him perhaps not even wanting to resign or not being happy which I think forced their hand. Again, that's my guess.

I'm wrong though, because I thought it was going to be difficult to build around him as a super max player, but players like him don't grow on trees. He may not be a top 10 player, but he is on the cusp and when you have those types of players on your roster, you do everything you can to keep them on the team, and if you trade him, you better get something of equal value and we didn't.

I definitely do think you're giving management too much credit.

Butler never wanted to leave Chicago. There's evidence to the contrary. He wanted to be here. He didn't want to be traded. He still has ties here. He does charity stuff here. He's not from Chicago but he's from Chicago.

He wasn't going to leave if they paid him, and there's no reason to believe that a) he would have qualified for the supermax and b) even if he did, they didn't have to offer him the full thing.

I always thought that the two reasons why they traded him were his future contract and that they screwed up building around him. The team at that time didn't look like it'd be able to find a second star to go with him and most of that stems from the mistake of trading up for McDermott.

Looking back I now think they should've kept him, paid him, and did whatever they could to improve the team around him. But just like this new year...hindsight is 20/20.

One bad mid round draft pick shouldn't derail your team building to such an extent. Almost all contenders have made many, many bad picks even in top of the lottery and also have had injuries to good players. The Bulls could have easily built a top 4 seed around Jimmy in a year after Wade's first year..

[Ccwatercraft]

loving how well OKC is playing, fun game vs the Rockets. good energy tonight.

[HomoSapien]

How great is this?

Atlanta Hawks player Trae Young has canceled more than $1 million in medical debt for Atlanta residents.

Young made a $10,000 donation through his foundation, the Trae Young Foundation, to the nonprofit RIP Medical Debt. The organization buys and forgives medical debt across the country.

Young’s donation will erase $1,059,186.39 in medical debt in the greater Atlanta area. RIP Medical Debt purchases the debt on the secondary debt market for “pennies on the dollar,” according to a Wednesday statement.

“The city of Atlanta has welcomed me with open arms,” Young, who finished second in NBA Rookie of the Year voting for 2019, said in the Wednesday statement. “Giving back to this community is extremely important to me. I hope these families can find a bit of relief knowing that their bills have been taken care of as we enter the New Year.”

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/477610-atlanta-hawks-player-cancels-over-1-million-in-medical-debt-for?fbclid=IwAR0btTCnvfRCJXgYdB-qZEPyeVRWYulU0ifKEPj8RHHPz9xAuS3DH1FZvCY

[RedBulls23]

loving how well OKC is playing, fun game vs the Rockets. good energy tonight.

Boy that Rockets/OKC trade is going to go down as one of the more lob sided deals ever, in favor of OKC. Not only did the Thunder actually get the better player in return, but they also got a ton of draft picks from the Rockets.

Sam Presti truly swindled Daryl Morrey.

[kulaz3000]

loving how well OKC is playing, fun game vs the Rockets. good energy tonight.

Boy that Rockets/OKC trade is going to go down as one of the more lob sided deals ever, in favor of OKC. Not only did the Thunder actually get the better player in return, but they also got a ton of draft picks from the Rockets.

Sam Presti truly swindled Daryl Morrey.

A slight redemption from the Harden deal.

[HomoSapien]

How can you not love Jimmy Butler? I can't believe this organization screwed it up so badly with him in his prime.

I honestly don't think they wanted to trade him when it's all said and done. I think it was the inevitable contract (in hindsight probably worth it, though a tough pill to swallow considering his age), but I truly think that he would have left through free agency or once signed to the max contract, eventually demanded a trade. I think the Bulls management saw the writing on the wall with him.

Perhaps I'm giving the Bulls front office the benefit of the doubt which they don't deserve, but he is a player that nurtured from a defensive specialist to the player he became, I can't imagine that they were actively trying to push him out the door, just because of a few antics he showed at the latter part of his tenure him. It was the pending super max and him perhaps not even wanting to resign or not being happy which I think forced their hand. Again, that's my guess.

I'm wrong though, because I thought it was going to be difficult to build around him as a super max player, but players like him don't grow on trees. He may not be a top 10 player, but he is on the cusp and when you have those types of players on your roster, you do everything you can to keep them on the team, and if you trade him, you better get something of equal value and we didn't.

I definitely do think you're giving management too much credit.

Butler never wanted to leave Chicago. There's evidence to the contrary. He wanted to be here. He didn't want to be traded. He still has ties here. He does charity stuff here. He's not from Chicago but he's from Chicago.

He wasn't going to leave if they paid him, and there's no reason to believe that a) he would have qualified for the supermax and b) even if he did, they didn't have to offer him the full thing.

I'll second this. I think Butler wanted nothing more than to retire a Bull. We screwed this one up on so many different levels. There were two trains of thoughts regarding a Butler trade:

1.) He didn't deserve the money he was going to get paid.
2.) It'd be hard to build a team around him.

Miami's roster is easily something we could have replicated. He's also showing that he deserves every cent he's been paid. People used to say he was a top 15 player as sort of a backhanded compliment -- in other words, he's good, but not good enough. That may be technically true, but because of how competitive he is, he's almost always going to be the best or second-best player in every single game he plays in. I just don't understand why you wouldn't try to build around that.