Kobe Bryant Discussion, Part Two

[MindState]

It has been almost two weeks. Kobe Bryant was a real man, with positive and negative traits, positive and negative feats. The circle of unadultered devotion and praise will shrink with time, as it does with all men.

The criticism of Gayle King is unwarranted, the threats by Snoop Dogg much more so. As time passes, attempts to control Bryant’s story will become more and more futile and even foolish. It’s all out there for anyone to read; of course people will try to put it in context. That is how it is for all great figures.

Frankly, Bryant adulists’ time is better spent announcing and expanding on his good feats than on trying to suppress discussion of what happened in Colorado in 2004.

Kobe died on a Sunday and this subject was being brought up literally on Monday via Twitter when the NYT suspended one of their Journalists for ReTweeting an old article talking about the Rape.

No one is saying sweep it under the rug, but where was all this energy when the man was alive? You know why no one brought it up? Because the Rape happened 20 years ago. We dragged Kobe through the mud for it and he clearly changed into a better person. Ironically someone who became a HUGE advocate for respecting Female Athletes. You had **** 20 years, 2 championships an Emmy etc as all points for you to bring up why we shouldn't celebrate him. While he was here. To defend himself.

Why is it necessary to bring up his dirt That's Public Knowledge and has been for decades. Before he's even put into the ground? You're upset that people are mourning him? Could you be so insensitive to the family and the people impacted by this? Is it really all that important for you to get on a hill and say

"Hey! I know your Sad but **** him! He's an **** for that thing we all know happened. Don't Mourn this guy! He doesn't deserve it"

**** that. and **** the high horse that allows this line of thinking, especially since this man can't defend himself. It's wrong. It's cowardly.

What Rape? He was found innocent

You didnt get the memo? Its 2020, accusations are treated as fact. Even if proven innocent.

[clyde21]

Because of the recent flooding of Kobe's rape trial, I decided to do the actual research.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/evtov3/because_of_the_recent_flooding_of_kobes_rape/

i was too young to really know what happened in the case but reading that makes it seems like the entire thing was just a casual encounter gone wrong, the woman in question doesn't seem to be all there either.

not sure why people are bringing this up now tbh...what good does it do anyone talking about this case? you think you're helping the problem of sexual assault bringing this up?

RIP kobe.

[kwb]

Because of the recent flooding of Kobe's rape trial, I decided to do the actual research.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/comments/evtov3/because_of_the_recent_flooding_of_kobes_rape/

i was too young to really know what happened in the case but reading that makes it seems like the entire thing was just a casual encounter gone wrong, the woman in question doesn't seem to be all there either.

not sure why people are bringing this up now tbh...what good does it do anyone talking about this case? you think you're helping the problem of sexual assault bringing this up?

RIP kobe.

15 years later.

[JulesWinnfield]

I dont pretend to know what happened in that room, only two people really know the truth... but some facts

- he was not found “innocent” or “not guilty”, thats just blatantly false
- he paid out a hefty settlement to avoid a trial coupled with public comments saying that he believed the encounter was consensual but he understands now that she did not feel the same way. Part of the settlement was that he not only paid out money but was made to make those public comments giving some validity to her position. I remember the press conference like it was yesterday and it was one of the most bizarre sports moments ive ever seen. It was far from a full fledged pronouncement of innocence

Snoop is an idiot. Afrer this stunt any mainstream appeal he gained is gone forever. Ending it with the bill cosby stuff was just icing on the cake

[clyde21]

I dont pretend to know what happened in that room, only two people really know the truth... but some facts

- he was not found “innocent” or “not guilty”, thats just blatantly false
- he paid out a hefty settlement to avoid a trial coupled with public comments saying that he believed the encounter was consensual but he understands now that she did not feel the same way. Part of the settlement was that he not only paid out money but was made to make those public comments giving some validity to her position. I remember the press conference like it was yesterday and it was one of the most bizarre sports moments ive ever seen. It was far from a full fledged pronouncement of innocence

Snoop is an idiot. Afrer this stunt any mainstream appeal he gained is gone forever. Ending it with the bill cosby stuff was just icing on the cake

here is another fact:

The young woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape bragged about the alleged assault at a party last week - and gave a graphic description of the NBA star's anatomy, partygoers said. Steve Evancho told NBC News that he was surprised when the 19-year-old woman showed up at his house party on July 15 - three days before prosecutors slapped Bryant with sex assault charges. "She was bragging about the whole thing," Evancho said, adding that the woman seemed "happy. She was having fun. " She even answered a question about the 6-foot-7 L.A. Lakers star's manhood, five people at the party told NBC. "She answered with a gesture and a description," said NBC correspondent Michelle Hofland. "They couldn't believe it.

https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/kobe-accuser-bragged-partygoer-happy-article-1.512242

[JulesWinnfield]

I dont pretend to know what happened in that room, only two people really know the truth... but some facts

- he was not found “innocent” or “not guilty”, thats just blatantly false
- he paid out a hefty settlement to avoid a trial coupled with public comments saying that he believed the encounter was consensual but he understands now that she did not feel the same way. Part of the settlement was that he not only paid out money but was made to make those public comments giving some validity to her position. I remember the press conference like it was yesterday and it was one of the most bizarre sports moments ive ever seen. It was far from a full fledged pronouncement of innocence

Snoop is an idiot. Afrer this stunt any mainstream appeal he gained is gone forever. Ending it with the bill cosby stuff was just icing on the cake

here is another fact:

The young woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape bragged about the alleged assault at a party last week - and gave a graphic description of the NBA star's anatomy, partygoers said. Steve Evancho told NBC News that he was surprised when the 19-year-old woman showed up at his house party on July 15 - three days before prosecutors slapped Bryant with sex assault charges. "She was bragging about the whole thing," Evancho said, adding that the woman seemed "happy. She was having fun.

https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/kobe-accuser-bragged-partygoer-happy-article-1.512242

I lived through it and remember all of it. I tend to have doubts about the accuser myself based on info like this and other stuff, but putting those pieces together to say unequivocally that she made this all up isnt fair either, and also goes against a lot of research that shows the wildly unpredictable ways abuse victims can act after a traumatic incident

What we know is Kobe paid a hefty settlement to avoid a trial because he and his lawyers believed it was a risk to take it there. There was at least enough evidence beyond he said /she said that they didnt want to chance it. In addition he held a wildly uncomfortable and awkward press conference making statements that added at least some validity to her position

Anyone who has a strong opinion on his guilt or innocence is kidding themselves. We will never really know. But settlements and pressers like the one he held werent a great look

[clyde21]

I dont pretend to know what happened in that room, only two people really know the truth... but some facts

- he was not found “innocent” or “not guilty”, thats just blatantly false
- he paid out a hefty settlement to avoid a trial coupled with public comments saying that he believed the encounter was consensual but he understands now that she did not feel the same way. Part of the settlement was that he not only paid out money but was made to make those public comments giving some validity to her position. I remember the press conference like it was yesterday and it was one of the most bizarre sports moments ive ever seen. It was far from a full fledged pronouncement of innocence

Snoop is an idiot. Afrer this stunt any mainstream appeal he gained is gone forever. Ending it with the bill cosby stuff was just icing on the cake

here is another fact:

The young woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape bragged about the alleged assault at a party last week - and gave a graphic description of the NBA star's anatomy, partygoers said. Steve Evancho told NBC News that he was surprised when the 19-year-old woman showed up at his house party on July 15 - three days before prosecutors slapped Bryant with sex assault charges. "She was bragging about the whole thing," Evancho said, adding that the woman seemed "happy. She was having fun.

https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/kobe-accuser-bragged-partygoer-happy-article-1.512242

I lived through it and remember all of it. I tend to have doubts about the accuser myself based on info like this and other stuff, but putting those pieces together to say unequivocally that she made this all up isnt fair either, and also goes against a lot of research that shows the wildly unpredictable ways abuse victims can act after a traumatic incident

What we know is Kobe paid a hefty settlement to avoid a trial because he and his lawyers believed it was a risk to take it there. There was at least enough evidence beyond he said /she said that they didnt want to chance it. In addition he held a wildly uncomfortable and awkward press conference making statements that added at least some validity to her position

Anyone who has a strong opinion on his guilt or innocence is kidding themselves. We will never really know. But settlements and pressers like the one he held werent a great look

i'm not saying she made it up, i'm saying at this point this whole thing shouldn't even be brought up, it does no one any good, no one knows what really happened and we'll never know, and it just looks like a pathetic attempt to deface Kobe's legacy.

[clyde21]

at the end of the day Kobe did more for women, specifically women sports, than all of these detractors ever will put together. what is the point of even talking about the rape case from 15 yrs ago other than to try and earn woke points?

[JulesWinnfield]

here is another fact:



https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/kobe-accuser-bragged-partygoer-happy-article-1.512242

I lived through it and remember all of it. I tend to have doubts about the accuser myself based on info like this and other stuff, but putting those pieces together to say unequivocally that she made this all up isnt fair either, and also goes against a lot of research that shows the wildly unpredictable ways abuse victims can act after a traumatic incident

What we know is Kobe paid a hefty settlement to avoid a trial because he and his lawyers believed it was a risk to take it there. There was at least enough evidence beyond he said /she said that they didnt want to chance it. In addition he held a wildly uncomfortable and awkward press conference making statements that added at least some validity to her position

Anyone who has a strong opinion on his guilt or innocence is kidding themselves. We will never really know. But settlements and pressers like the one he held werent a great look

i'm not saying she made it up, i'm saying at this point this whole thing shouldn't even be brought up, it does no one any good, no one knows what really happened and we'll never know, and it just looks like a pathetic attempt to deface Kobe's legacy.

Its unavoidably a part of his legacy though. Just because it didnt reach its legal conclusion because of a settlement does not mean it gets swept away forever to be never mentioned. Maybe in legal court but not in the court of public opinion. Kobe should not be reduced to those accusations but he also doesnt have the right to gain eternal immunity

[clyde21]

I lived through it and remember all of it. I tend to have doubts about the accuser myself based on info like this and other stuff, but putting those pieces together to say unequivocally that she made this all up isnt fair either, and also goes against a lot of research that shows the wildly unpredictable ways abuse victims can act after a traumatic incident

What we know is Kobe paid a hefty settlement to avoid a trial because he and his lawyers believed it was a risk to take it there. There was at least enough evidence beyond he said /she said that they didnt want to chance it. In addition he held a wildly uncomfortable and awkward press conference making statements that added at least some validity to her position

Anyone who has a strong opinion on his guilt or innocence is kidding themselves. We will never really know. But settlements and pressers like the one he held werent a great look

i'm not saying she made it up, i'm saying at this point this whole thing shouldn't even be brought up, it does no one any good, no one knows what really happened and we'll never know, and it just looks like a pathetic attempt to deface Kobe's legacy.

Its unavoidably a part of his legacy though. Just because it didnt reach its legal conclusion because of a settlement does not mean it gets swept away forever to be never mentioned. Maybe in legal court but not in the court of public opinion. Kobe should not be reduced to those accusations but he also doesnt have the right to gain eternal immunity

it's already been mentioned enough the last decade and a half. everyone already knows about the case. what's the point in bringing it up now? what does it accomplish?

this man was a father of 4 girls, and what he's been doing for women during his career and what he was about to do for women moving forward overshadows anything that may or may not have happened when he was 23 years old.

[JulesWinnfield]

i'm not saying she made it up, i'm saying at this point this whole thing shouldn't even be brought up, it does no one any good, no one knows what really happened and we'll never know, and it just looks like a pathetic attempt to deface Kobe's legacy.

Its unavoidably a part of his legacy though. Just because it didnt reach its legal conclusion because of a settlement does not mean it gets swept away forever to be never mentioned. Maybe in legal court but not in the court of public opinion. Kobe should not be reduced to those accusations but he also doesnt have the right to gain eternal immunity

it's already been mentioned enough the last decade and a half. everyone already knows about the case. what's the point in bringing it up now? what does it accomplish?

this man was a father of 4 girls, and what he's been doing for women during his career and what he was about to do for women moving forward overshadows anything that may or may not have happened when he was 23 years old.

If he did what he was accused of (not saying he did and i personally have doubts) the fact that he was a father of 4 girls or was doing a lot for women (however you want to position that) doesnt really mean much in regards to that incident

We live in a world and a time where this is going to get brought up. It would probably be in poor taste in the immediate aftermath of his death (first day or two) but at some point this was going to get rehashed when the legacy of Kobe is discussed. Its just unavoidably part of the Kobe story. I personally have doubts about his guilt but when someone settles a case and makes comments like he did its not something that can just be tossed away. It also doesnt exclusively define him

[clyde21]

Its unavoidably a part of his legacy though. Just because it didnt reach its legal conclusion because of a settlement does not mean it gets swept away forever to be never mentioned. Maybe in legal court but not in the court of public opinion. Kobe should not be reduced to those accusations but he also doesnt have the right to gain eternal immunity

it's already been mentioned enough the last decade and a half. everyone already knows about the case. what's the point in bringing it up now? what does it accomplish?

this man was a father of 4 girls, and what he's been doing for women during his career and what he was about to do for women moving forward overshadows anything that may or may not have happened when he was 23 years old.

If he did what he was accused of (not saying he did and i personally have doubts) the fact that he was a father of 4 girls or was doing a lot for women (however you want to position that) doesnt really mean much in regards to that incident

We live in a world and a time where this is going to get brought up. It would probably be in poor taste in the immediate aftermath of his death (first day or two) but at some point this was going to get rehashed when the legacy of Kobe is discussed. Its just unavoidably part of the Kobe story. I personally have doubts about his guilt but when someone settles a case and makes comments like he did its not something that can just be tossed away. It also doesnt exclusively define him

him settling the case doesn't mean anything, guys in Kobe's place would all settle because it's much better than just dragging it out through a trial for who knows how long

also if what I read correctly, her lawyers probably wanted to settle a lot more than Kobe's side given all the evidence that was undermining her case.

[JulesWinnfield]

it's already been mentioned enough the last decade and a half. everyone already knows about the case. what's the point in bringing it up now? what does it accomplish?

this man was a father of 4 girls, and what he's been doing for women during his career and what he was about to do for women moving forward overshadows anything that may or may not have happened when he was 23 years old.

If he did what he was accused of (not saying he did and i personally have doubts) the fact that he was a father of 4 girls or was doing a lot for women (however you want to position that) doesnt really mean much in regards to that incident

We live in a world and a time where this is going to get brought up. It would probably be in poor taste in the immediate aftermath of his death (first day or two) but at some point this was going to get rehashed when the legacy of Kobe is discussed. Its just unavoidably part of the Kobe story. I personally have doubts about his guilt but when someone settles a case and makes comments like he did its not something that can just be tossed away. It also doesnt exclusively define him

him settling the case doesn't mean anything, guys in Kobe's place would all settle because it's much better than just dragging it out through a trial for who knows how long

also if what I read correctly, her lawyers probably wanted to settle a lot more than Kobe's side given all the evidence that was undermining her case.

Him settling the case means he wasnt willing to risk a trial. He believed the risk of doing so outweighed the image hit he would acquire from paying her off. Thats a deal he made and part of that deal means this will partially stick to him forever. Which is where we are now

It also goes to show that beyond the fact that there are more deserving players from a basketball perspective, the NBA could never in a million years entertain the thought of making him their logo. Its a never ending PR disaster

[Scott Hall]

Read on Twitter

[Dollop]

I dont pretend to know what happened in that room, only two people really know the truth... but some facts

- he was not found “innocent” or “not guilty”, thats just blatantly false
- he paid out a hefty settlement to avoid a trial coupled with public comments saying that he believed the encounter was consensual but he understands now that she did not feel the same way. Part of the settlement was that he not only paid out money but was made to make those public comments giving some validity to her position. I remember the press conference like it was yesterday and it was one of the most bizarre sports moments ive ever seen. It was far from a full fledged pronouncement of innocence

Snoop is an idiot. Afrer this stunt any mainstream appeal he gained is gone forever. Ending it with the bill cosby stuff was just icing on the cake

here is another fact:

The young woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape bragged about the alleged assault at a party last week - and gave a graphic description of the NBA star's anatomy, partygoers said. Steve Evancho told NBC News that he was surprised when the 19-year-old woman showed up at his house party on July 15 - three days before prosecutors slapped Bryant with sex assault charges. "She was bragging about the whole thing," Evancho said, adding that the woman seemed "happy. She was having fun.

https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/kobe-accuser-bragged-partygoer-happy-article-1.512242

I lived through it and remember all of it. I tend to have doubts about the accuser myself based on info like this and other stuff, but putting those pieces together to say unequivocally that she made this all up isnt fair either, and also goes against a lot of research that shows the wildly unpredictable ways abuse victims can act after a traumatic incident

What we know is Kobe paid a hefty settlement to avoid a trial because he and his lawyers believed it was a risk to take it there. There was at least enough evidence beyond he said /she said that they didnt want to chance it. In addition he held a wildly uncomfortable and awkward press conference making statements that added at least some validity to her position

Anyone who has a strong opinion on his guilt or innocence is kidding themselves. We will never really know. But settlements and pressers like the one he held werent a great look

I think you make and astute point about victims perceived “bizarre” behavior after the fact. This is a documented thing and shown in cases that are much more cut and dry.

Following that logic I think it’s similarily unfair to judge Kobe on the settlement and press conference. We’ve seen psychopaths with dozens of accusations from dozens of different accusers and lots of physical evidence boldly declare their 100% innocence. The reality is that this was a young, wealthy man who has a team of high powered lawyers that tell him if he cuts and check and make a statement this is over. Like you said only one person living now knows what actually happened. Let’s say in the hypothetical that Kobe was completely innocent of what he was accused of then he was a victim and and just like you kind of have to let the women’s bizarre behavior slide I think you kinda got to let Kobe just wanting to end it slide as well.

[Sprewell4Three]

Kobe was a huge advocate for woman and woman sports yet these demons in the media want to bring up the rape case ? Man, it’s so unfortunate how all of Kobe’s hard work to fix his image doesn’t matter after he’s gone. These demons in the media are some of the worst.

[TaylorTRoom]

What I think? I think it started out consensual, and she withdrew consent. She had bruises on her neck and scrapes, and it sounds like Kobe was envisioning having a very impersonal, physical porno-style encounter, and she disagreed. She withdrew consent and he did not stop. I think the evidence doesn’t go against such a theory, nor does his statement (it’s worth a read).

I don’t think he ever again put himself in such a position. I don’t think he was a particular menace after that. I think nobody won and everybody lost. I think he tried to be a better person, with some success. A lot of people with well earned great reputations thought a lot of him.

He was a public figure and he reaped a lot of rewards from his fame and stature. It’s fine, in my opinion, for writers and reporters to write about all aspects of his life.

[Ballings7]

Caught the All The Smoke podcast with KD (another great show) where it was recorded on 1/22, prior to Kobe's passing..

Still just doesn't make sense or feel real. Hit pretty hard by it for basically that whole first week.. like literally losing someone close -- but I still get iffy when just seeing a headline or anything tied to it. Like today.

I never even liked his teams or rooted for him, more often rooted against him -- but he's always been one of the players I grew up watching, had cards of (before I rooted against him), always present in the game and in the media. Prominent, diverse figure. Lot of big "basketball" moments, sequences, that were simply amazing.

Kobe will be widely missed but never forgotten. Such a special competitor and person.

[Cavsfansince84]

What I think? I think it started out consensual, and she withdrew consent. She had bruises on her neck and scrapes, and it sounds like Kobe was envisioning having a very impersonal, physical porno-style encounter, and she disagreed. She withdrew consent and he did not stop. I think the evidence doesn’t go against such a theory, nor does his statement (it’s worth a read).

I don’t think he ever again put himself in such a position. I don’t think he was a particular menace after that. I think nobody won and everybody lost. I think he tried to be a better person, with some success. A lot of people with well earned great reputations thought a lot of him.

He was a public figure and he reaped a lot of rewards from his fame and stature. It’s fine, in my opinion, for writers and reporters to write about all aspects of his life.

Most things in life aren't really about winning or losing. Its about learning from the experience and at the end of the day that's what Kobe did I would say while hopefully the same can be said of the woman who got paid from it.

[Sgt Major]

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