What is a fair return for Ben Simmons?

[DB43]

Culver is looking like another Josh Jackson in the making. I don't think he will end up being all that good. But that is neither here, nor there.

You don't get a 5 year deal, from a walking triple double all star, for Culver and 2 firsts. That is all I'm saying. the 76ers are built to win now. Even if you take out Ben Simmons. They want a win now player coming back. Not culver and some picks.

[rugbyrugger23]

Culver is looking like another Josh Jackson in the making. I don't think he will end up being all that good. But that is neither here, nor there.

You don't get a 5 year deal, from a walking triple double all star, for Culver and 2 firsts. That is all I'm saying. the 76ers are built to win now. Even if you take out Ben Simmons. They want a win now player coming back. Not culver and some picks.

Well to be precise - Culver and 3 picks — and Culver isn’t even the highlight of said package.

If you think Simmons is worth more — fair take to have. Not sure about that. But not the point of any back and forth prior.

[BullyKing]

BK is absolutely correct with regards to the picks in question. The one point that goes Rugby's way is that we have seen the Lakers historically be one of the best franchises in the league. Even if Lebron ages out, there is at least a chance they can pivot and not be surrendering premium picks. They likely would as we saw after Kobe aged out--picking #2 overall 3 years in a row. But it's possible. We've seen essentially nothing out of Minnesota that suggests other than having a top 15 all-time guy in KG that they can win. In fact they went 3 straight years with a healthy prime KG and couldn't make the playoffs.

If I was choosing which teams unprotected 1sts to own, Minnesota might be my top pick. They'd without question be in the top 5. Historical failure means something.

No disagreement that there's the risk that the Lakers quickly rebuild in the middle part of this decade is definitely something that needs to be factored into the value. The issue always exists that a team trading its picks for a star is simultaneously downgrading the value of those very picks. The Lakers picks are a perfect storm where the contender they are trading the picks to build will naturally age out while those picks come due.

[Texas Chuck]

BK is absolutely correct with regards to the picks in question. The one point that goes Rugby's way is that we have seen the Lakers historically be one of the best franchises in the league. Even if Lebron ages out, there is at least a chance they can pivot and not be surrendering premium picks. They likely would as we saw after Kobe aged out--picking #2 overall 3 years in a row. But it's possible. We've seen essentially nothing out of Minnesota that suggests other than having a top 15 all-time guy in KG that they can win. In fact they went 3 straight years with a healthy prime KG and couldn't make the playoffs.

If I was choosing which teams unprotected 1sts to own, Minnesota might be my top pick. They'd without question be in the top 5. Historical failure means something.

No disagreement that there's the risk that the Lakers quickly rebuild in the middle part of this decade is definitely something that needs to be factored into the value. The issue always exists that a team trading its picks for a star is simultaneously downgrading the value of those very picks. The Lakers picks are a perfect storm where the contender they are trading the picks to build will naturally age out while those picks come due.

yeah it's scary to think that Zion could be entering his prime and the Pels could have very valuable draft picks to trade for another star around him. Pels are really positioned to be a huge problem in the West if Zion can stay healthy and they make sensible decisions around him.

It's one of the reasons I really need Dallas to get it right when they try and add that 2nd star to Luka in 18 months.

[BullyKing]

BK is absolutely correct with regards to the picks in question. The one point that goes Rugby's way is that we have seen the Lakers historically be one of the best franchises in the league. Even if Lebron ages out, there is at least a chance they can pivot and not be surrendering premium picks. They likely would as we saw after Kobe aged out--picking #2 overall 3 years in a row. But it's possible. We've seen essentially nothing out of Minnesota that suggests other than having a top 15 all-time guy in KG that they can win. In fact they went 3 straight years with a healthy prime KG and couldn't make the playoffs.

If I was choosing which teams unprotected 1sts to own, Minnesota might be my top pick. They'd without question be in the top 5. Historical failure means something.

No disagreement that there's the risk that the Lakers quickly rebuild in the middle part of this decade is definitely something that needs to be factored into the value. The issue always exists that a team trading its picks for a star is simultaneously downgrading the value of those very picks. The Lakers picks are a perfect storm where the contender they are trading the picks to build will naturally age out while those picks come due.

yeah it's scary to think that Zion could be entering his prime and the Pels could have very valuable draft picks to trade for another star around him. Pels are really positioned to be a huge problem in the West if Zion can stay healthy and they make sensible decisions around him.

It's one of the reasons I really need Dallas to get it right when they try and add that 2nd star to Luka in 18 months.

This is one of the most fascinating story lines for me over the next couple of years: essentially what is their lesson learned from the AD situation. On the hand, they could come away thinking that you don't know how long you will have a star so you need to build a winner around them as soon as possible. On the other hand, that precise line of thinking is what led to AD wanting out IMO. The constant trading of 1st round picks to make a push for the 8th seed is what really hamstrung them from having the ability to actually build a winner around AD.

Candidly, I don't think they are off to a great start in that regard. They've already hemorrhaged a decent amount of Holiday's value. I'm typically against spending cap space for the sake of having veterans (Redick, Favors) instead of trading that space for future assets but I'm less down on it in this case given that they already have such a pick chest.

[cjmcallist]

I've said before I would do McCollum, Collins, and two firsts, which I think is one of the strongest offers Philly could hope for, but I doubt the Portland FO would make that aggressive of a move.

That seems like a good offer.

OKC would try to outbid if possible. Curious to see how POR/OKC can match up offers. Would have to be after the league year rolls over.

OKC starts with C. Paul, but could be talked into Gallinari. Though, it might make sense to maximize PHI's roster with Paul instead of another forward next to Harris and Horford.

PHI sends:
B. Simmons
M. Scott

PHI receives:
C. Paul
2021 OKC 1st (unp.)
2022 LAC 1st (unp.)
2023 MIA 1st (lot. prot, but rolls)
2024 HOU 1st (top 4 prot.)

Thats a really, really like genuinely awful trade for Philly.

I'm guessing you think LAC, MIA, and HOU will be very good through those years?

At face value, an All Star and four first round picks (two unprotected) is hardly an awful trade offer. But could be wrong, would love for you to elaborate though.

Edit: format fail

[BullyKing]

That seems like a good offer.

OKC would try to outbid if possible. Curious to see how POR/OKC can match up offers. Would have to be after the league year rolls over.

OKC starts with C. Paul, but could be talked into Gallinari. Though, it might make sense to maximize PHI's roster with Paul instead of another forward next to Harris and Horford.

PHI sends:
B. Simmons
M. Scott

PHI receives:
C. Paul
2021 OKC 1st (unp.)
2022 LAC 1st (unp.)
2023 MIA 1st (lot. prot, but rolls)
2024 HOU 1st (top 4 prot.)

Thats a really, really like genuinely awful trade for Philly.

I'm guessing you think LAC, MIA, and HOU will be very good through those years?

At face value, an All Star and four first round picks (two unprotected) is hardly an awful trade offer. But could be wrong, would love for you to elaborate though.

Edit: format fail

Not directed to me but I'll answer anyway. You simply cannot trade a 23 year old 2x old star signed for five years for a package that doesn't included a single guaranteed premium asset. Who knows what Houston will look like in four years for example but you just cannot take the risk.

[cjmcallist]

Thats a really, really like genuinely awful trade for Philly.

I'm guessing you think LAC, MIA, and HOU will be very good through those years?

At face value, an All Star and four first round picks (two unprotected) is hardly an awful trade offer. But could be wrong, would love for you to elaborate though.

Edit: format fail

Not directed to me but I'll answer anyway. You simply cannot trade a 23 year old 2x old star signed for five years for a package that doesn't included a single guaranteed premium asset. Who knows what Houston will look like in four years for example but you just cannot take the risk.

Thanks for the reply. I like this conversation. How do you define a premium asset. In the AD trade, would you have considered the #4 overall pick the "premium" asset?

[BullyKing]

I'm guessing you think LAC, MIA, and HOU will be very good through those years?

At face value, an All Star and four first round picks (two unprotected) is hardly an awful trade offer. But could be wrong, would love for you to elaborate though.

Edit: format fail

Not directed to me but I'll answer anyway. You simply cannot trade a 23 year old 2x old star signed for five years for a package that doesn't included a single guaranteed premium asset. Who knows what Houston will look like in four years for example but you just cannot take the risk.

Thanks for the reply. I like this conversation. How do you define a premium asset. In the AD trade, would you have considered the #4 overall pick the "premium" asset?

I think it was "a" premium asset. I'm also bullish on the picks they received because they have deferral options and the like. I'm not going to pretend like I saw this Ingram breakout coming but the young players from the Lakers are had some value though I didn't consider any of them premium assets at the time.

[rugbyrugger23]

BK is absolutely correct with regards to the picks in question. The one point that goes Rugby's way is that we have seen the Lakers historically be one of the best franchises in the league. Even if Lebron ages out, there is at least a chance they can pivot and not be surrendering premium picks. They likely would as we saw after Kobe aged out--picking #2 overall 3 years in a row. But it's possible. We've seen essentially nothing out of Minnesota that suggests other than having a top 15 all-time guy in KG that they can win. In fact they went 3 straight years with a healthy prime KG and couldn't make the playoffs.

If I was choosing which teams unprotected 1sts to own, Minnesota might be my top pick. They'd without question be in the top 5. Historical failure means something.

Even if James ages out by 24/25, they have Davis and cap space. Unless you think Davis will bolt after 4 years in LA.

I think without a doubt the 2022 of Wolves is worth more than Lakers 2022.

Is Nets #15 in 2020 worth more than Lakers of 2024/25? I think so — but that is 4-5 year in the making argument. So let’s say who cares.

[rugbyrugger23]

To Philly: Beal + Wolves 2020 Top 4 FRP (PGOF)

To Wizards: Culver + JJ + Nets 2020 FRP (#16) + Wolves 2022 FRP (unprotected) + Wolves 2024 FRP (lightly protected)

To Wolves: Simmons + Scott

—

Philly gets Beal and Top 4 FRP for Simmons. They set themselves for win-now and even consolidation trade.
C: Embiid | Horford
F: Horford | Harris
F: Harris | Thybulle
G: Richardson | Beal
G: Beal | PGOF

Wizards replace Beal with Culver and a bunch of draft capital. They can ride out Wall contract or see what free agency delivers and explore future consolidation trade themselves.

Wolves now trade 4x FRP and Culver for Simmons. Damn that is a lot.
C: Towns
F: Gomez | Spellman
F: Simmons
G: Okogie | Beasley
G: Russell

[HartfordWhalers]

To Philly: Beal + Wolves 2020 Top 4 FRP (PGOF)

To Wizards: Culver + JJ + Nets 2020 FRP (#16) + Wolves 2022 FRP (unprotected) + Wolves 2024 FRP (lightly protected)

To Wolves: Simmons + Scott

—

Philly gets Beal and Top 4 FRP for Simmons. They set themselves for win-now and even consolidation trade.
C: Embiid | Horford
F: Horford | Harris
F: Harris | Thybulle
G: Richardson | Beal
G: Beal | PGOF

Wizards replace Beal with Culver and a bunch of draft capital. They can ride out Wall contract or see what free agency delivers and explore future consolidation trade themselves.

Wolves now trade 4x FRP and Culver for Simmons. Damn that is a lot.
C: Towns
F: Gomez | Spellman
F: Simmons
G: Okogie | Beasley
G: Russell

Did stepien rules go away?

[Ruzious]

I've said before I would do McCollum, Collins, and two firsts, which I think is one of the strongest offers Philly could hope for, but I doubt the Portland FO would make that aggressive of a move.

I think you need a better centerpiece than McCollum to get a player like Simmons.

[Reign23]

Washington 2020 1st + Beal

wait, what? I would do this in a heartbeat if I'm philly.

[Colbinii]

Washington 2020 1st + Beal

wait, what? I would do this in a heartbeat if I'm philly.

Well that's because you think Beal and Simmons are close.

[gambitx777]

I wouldn't if I were the wizards. Not saying anything about the value. But I am not a Simmons fan personally. Dudes fine but can't shoot at all. Even if he was a sup par shooter the way he plays.but he won't even try....

Washington 2020 1st + Beal

wait, what? I would do this in a heartbeat if I'm philly.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

[Sportfan73]

Lot of y’all don’t realize just how good he is at everything else. We’re talking if the increased aggression (7+ fta pg) with 70+% from the line continues and he even becomes a 32% three point shooter he will be a top 3 player. Immediately

[Djh7475]

If I was Philly, I would trade Embiid before Simmons, but Simmons has a lot more value than most of what has been offered. As a Celtics fan, I prefer Tatum over Simmons (it’s preference and probably a little bit of bias), but I think it’d take a guy like Tatum to get him. It would take a young all-star with 2-way superstar potential to get Philly interested in giving up theirs. There is no Zion in the upcoming draft, so I don’t see draft picks being the central haul in a Simmons deal, and players as good or almost as good as him at his age or younger can be counted on one hand.

[VDT]

Yea, Sixers are trying to win now and the reason to make a trade would be to upgrade either in talent or in fit (while getting similar talent back). They are not interested in breaking Simmons into multiple pieces or getting picks.

[Chris76]

Lot of y’all don’t realize just how good he is at everything else. We’re talking if the increased aggression (7+ fta pg) with 70+% from the line continues and he even becomes a 32% three point shooter he will be a top 3 player. Immediately

I agree Simmons has taken a step forward offensively, recently. He is averaging around 25pts a game on efficient dunks and he still gets open 3s for his teammates. Also, his defense has been great.