Pels Roster Fit

Moderators: PockyCandy, Prez, ken6199, bwgood77, Dirk, Domejandro, jamaalstar21, zimpy27, BombsquadSammy, GeorgeMarcus

User avatar
whitehops
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,616
And1: 3,349
Joined: Dec 12, 2012
     

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#21 » by whitehops » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:11 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:You wouldn't look to move Jrue this summer? He is much older then the rest of the core and will be on an expiring deal next year and will be a non restricted free agent next summer.


it depends on what you want to move him for... a pick? a young vet? a quality wing player? without knowing what kinds of offers they'd get i don't have a problem with them keeping him since he's still playing at a high level and isn't paid a huge amount.

his player option for 2022 also complicates things a bit... teams that would be looking for an expiring deal could get spooked by the PO and teams looking for a more long-term asset might not want to give up as much for what could just be a one-year rental.

basically i think that the pelicans have two great building blocks in ingram and zion so they should be acquiring young assets where they can but not selling out on youth. guys like jrue and redick are great vets to have around while the youngins grow.
Young gun 6
Starter
Posts: 2,434
And1: 3,944
Joined: Dec 23, 2014
     

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#22 » by Young gun 6 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:14 pm

:oops:
whitehops wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:68-78 when he plays.. (.466)
27-46 when he doesn’t.. (.369)

Pels are 2-7 when he comes off the bench rather than starting too.

that's mainly from his time with the lakers, and has to do with who replaced him on a team that already was short on play makers. this year the pelicans are 19-28 with him (.404) and granted it is a small sample size but 4-4 without him this season. the difference is the pelicans have guys that can generate offense and hit from 3 whereas the lakers didn't.


You’re right it is a very small sample and even that doesn’t reflect anything. Those wins were against either shocking teams or short handed teams:

Charlotte
Warriors (without Dlo, Curry, Klay)
Clippers (without Kawhi, Beverley, Shamet and 10mins of Zubac)
Portland (without Lillard)

What about when he was coming off the bench and they had those playmakers creating and went 2-7 without him starting?


His playmaking is invaluable. They are 10-7 when he has 8 or more assists this season.

13-25 when he doesn’t, so I don’t think it’s reflective that they don’t need his playmaking like the lakers did.
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 14,112
And1: 14,163
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#23 » by zimpy27 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:20 pm

whitehops wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:You wouldn't look to move Jrue this summer? He is much older then the rest of the core and will be on an expiring deal next year and will be a non restricted free agent next summer.


it depends on what you want to move him for... a pick? a young vet? a quality wing player? without knowing what kinds of offers they'd get i don't have a problem with them keeping him since he's still playing at a high level and isn't paid a huge amount.

his player option for 2022 also complicates things a bit... teams that would be looking for an expiring deal could get spooked by the PO and teams looking for a more long-term asset might not want to give up as much for what could just be a one-year rental.

basically i think that the pelicans have two great building blocks in ingram and zion so they should be acquiring young assets where they can but not selling out on youth. guys like jrue and redick are great vets to have around while the youngins grow.


Trading Jrue is a mistake to me. He is a very good impact player and quite diverse. I think Lonzo/Jrue/Zion are the building blocks. Ingram doesn't fit and should be signed and traded next season. I think Utah would be a decent trading partner (Bojan/O'Neale).

Pels have a chance to compete immediately with a mix of vets and their quality youth.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
User avatar
whitehops
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,616
And1: 3,349
Joined: Dec 12, 2012
     

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#24 » by whitehops » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:20 pm

Young gun 6 wrote:His playmaking is invaluable. They are 10-7 when he has 8 or more assists this season.

13-25 when he doesn’t, so I don’t think it’s reflective that they don’t need his playmaking like the lakers did.

if he really contributed to winning he'd have more games with 8+ assists :wink:
SF_Warriors
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,494
And1: 2,617
Joined: Jul 12, 2012

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#25 » by SF_Warriors » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:21 pm

Double post
SF_Warriors
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,494
And1: 2,617
Joined: Jul 12, 2012

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#26 » by SF_Warriors » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:23 pm

whitehops wrote:- let favors, moore, okaford, frank jackson and kenrich williams walk this offseason
- decline darius miller's team option for $7 million
- sign ingram to a 4-year deal, his cap hit will likely start around $28 million if they give him the max (his numbers are better than hield's and hield gets $24 mil next year).

roster next season:
Lonzo Ball
Jrue Holiday/JJ Redick/Josh Hart/NAW
Brandon Ingram
Zion Williamson/Nicolo Melli
Jaxson Hayes

that leaves them with their late-lotto pick, three second rounders and roughly $10 million to add free agents to fill out their roster. hopefully they add a veteran backup PG and SF in free agency to try to take advantage of redick and likely holiday's last seasons with the pelicans.

if i were them i wouldn't shop NAW or hayes, they are both cheap to keep and NAW has play making potential while hayes at the very least can be used as a backup center while he develops, even if he can't effectively share the court with zion.

if i were them i'd try to extend ball for cheap (~$12 mil per year) this off season, in case he somehow has a breakout season like ingram did this year. i'd let hart play out his rookie deal and let him become a restricted free agent next off season.


Will hayes be ready to be a starter for them next season with no depth behind him? The guy is currently 19 yrs old..he has time to grow behind a vet.

The pels are 19-16 with favors in the lineup. And that is with 5 straight losses in his first five games this season, meaning 19-11 in the past 30 games hes played. If they can get him at a reasonable price he would help them a lot.
User avatar
whitehops
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,616
And1: 3,349
Joined: Dec 12, 2012
     

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#27 » by whitehops » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:23 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Trading Jrue is a mistake to me. He is a very good impact player and quite diverse. I think Lonzo/Jrue/Zion are the building blocks. Ingram doesn't fit and should be signed and traded next season. I think Utah would be a decent trading partner (Bojan/O'Neale).

Pels have a chance to compete immediately with a mix of vets and their quality youth.


i agree keeping him makes sense, but when his deal runs out i think it is a question if they should re-sign him, given that he'll command $25+ million per year and already be in his early 30's. they have young guys that will need paying eventually.

i will admit that i haven't watched a ton of the pelicans this year but why do you think ingram doesn't fit?
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 40,707
And1: 47,179
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#28 » by clyde21 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:27 pm

i like Zo, NAW and Melli fits. Jrue is also a good fit but not sure he's part of the long term plans. Hart is good off the bench. I like the Hayes fit i don't think that's gonna problematic as both Zion/Hayes expand their offensive games.

Zo
NAW / Hart
????
Zion
Hayes / Melli
#freepalestine
#BernieBro
igorbianch
Analyst
Posts: 3,462
And1: 3,958
Joined: Oct 01, 2017
   

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#29 » by igorbianch » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:33 pm

Griffin trade is looking bad.

Hunter may not be anything too special, but he was the perfect fit along Zion.

Lonzo
Hart
Ingram
Hunter
Zion

Perfect small ball line up in today’s game.
:lol:
User avatar
whitehops
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,616
And1: 3,349
Joined: Dec 12, 2012
     

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#30 » by whitehops » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:39 pm

SF_Warriors wrote:Will hayes be ready to be a starter for them next season with no depth behind him? The guy will be 20 yrs old..he has time to grow behind a vet.

The pels are 19-16 with favors in the lineup. And that is with 5 straight losses in his first five games this season, meaning 19-11 in the past 30 games hes played. If they can get him at a reasonable price he would help them a lot.


if they can re-sign favors for a reasonable amount then sure, i just assumed he would command decent coin.

this is a weak free agent class star-wise but there are actually a lot of veteran centers hitting the market (millsap, whiteside, gasol, ibaka, tristan thompson, biyombo, mason plumlee, mahinmi, baynes, howard, montrezl harrell, etc.) so they don't have to be locked in on re-signing favors.

so yeah, really any affordable veteran center would do. i hope they experiment more with zion at center so they really don't need to splurge on a vet center that will just split the center minutes with zion and hayes.
VanWest82
General Manager
Posts: 8,918
And1: 9,423
Joined: Dec 05, 2008

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#31 » by VanWest82 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:44 pm

whitehops wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:His playmaking is invaluable. They are 10-7 when he has 8 or more assists this season.

13-25 when he doesn’t, so I don’t think it’s reflective that they don’t need his playmaking like the lakers did.

if he really contributed to winning he'd have more games with 8+ assists :wink:

I have to think that he'll continue to grow as a play maker, especially considering the extra attention he's getting with the improvement in his shot. But there have been way too many games this year where he's had the ball in his hands all night, taken like 20 shots, and finished with only 1 or 2 assists.

The other issue for Ingram is defense. It's been a trend throughout his career that his teams perform better defensively when he's not on the court. This year he's last on the team in off court Drtg (i.e. they have the best Drtg when he's on the bench).

Here are his individual Synergy stats:

15th percentile guarding PnR
37th percentile guarding Post Ups
45th percentile guarding ISOs
43rd percentile guarding Spot Ups

I'd be tempted to play hard ball with Ingram in RFA. I know that's not a popular opinion in the player empowerment era. He's played well for half of one season. He's had a blood clot. Few teams have max cap space. Pelicans have other guys they need to pay big $$, etc., etc.
User avatar
E-Balla
RealGM
Posts: 31,806
And1: 19,833
Joined: Dec 19, 2012
Location: The Poster Formerly Known As The Gotham City Pantalones
   

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#32 » by E-Balla » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:54 pm

whitehops wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:68-78 when he plays.. (.466)
27-46 when he doesn’t.. (.369)

Pels are 2-7 when he comes off the bench rather than starting too.

that's mainly from his time with the lakers, and has to do with who replaced him on a team that already was short on play makers. this year the pelicans are 19-28 with him (.404) and granted it is a small sample size but 4-4 without him this season. the difference is the pelicans have guys that can generate offense and hit from 3 whereas the lakers didn't.

He started the season off hurt. They're 16-9 since he's gotten back healthy and in the starting lineup.
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
giberish
RealGM
Posts: 12,381
And1: 3,013
Joined: Mar 30, 2006
Location: Whereever you go - there you are

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#33 » by giberish » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 pm

I'd say the biggest issue is that they've got too many guards and not enough forwards. With Zion out they had Ingram playing PF a bunch - which is great for his offensive stats but a team defensive issue. I'd want to be playing Ingram as a SF/SG role. Figure Holiday/Hart/Ingram as the main guys in the SG/SF rotation. Reddick or someone as a 4th for depth. Ball at PG. Then add at least one good shooting big along with Zion and Hayes (Melli as a 4th big and you'd want a passable 5th big as well for health insurance).

In short, downgrade Favors' defense inside in favor of a better shooting big while generally playing bigger/better defense at the SG/SF/PF spots.
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 14,112
And1: 14,163
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#34 » by zimpy27 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:45 pm

clyde21 wrote:i like Zo, NAW and Melli fits. Jrue is also a good fit but not sure he's part of the long term plans. Hart is good off the bench. I like the Hayes fit i don't think that's gonna problematic as both Zion/Hayes expand their offensive games.

Zo
NAW / Hart
????
Zion
Hayes / Melli


They have been terrible together so far. The fit didn't seem right before they played and watching them seemed to seal that for me. It is only 10 games though, they definitely shouldn't trade anyone in the offseason anyway.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
leftsyde
Sophomore
Posts: 116
And1: 292
Joined: Apr 20, 2018
 

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#35 » by leftsyde » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:49 am

Does anyone else not like Gentry when it comes to in game adjustments and rotations, or do you think he is a great fit for this Pels team?
User avatar
PockyCandy
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 8,748
And1: 17,715
Joined: Jan 27, 2015
Location: Making videos that you watch
   

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#36 » by PockyCandy » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:40 am

leftsyde wrote:Does anyone else not like Gentry when it comes to in game adjustments and rotations, or do you think he is a great fit for this Pels team?


I get what you're saying, but nobody in the history of basketball has liked a coach's in-game adjustments or rotations.
Devin Booker wrote:Bro.
leftsyde
Sophomore
Posts: 116
And1: 292
Joined: Apr 20, 2018
 

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#37 » by leftsyde » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:57 am

.
leftsyde
Sophomore
Posts: 116
And1: 292
Joined: Apr 20, 2018
 

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#38 » by leftsyde » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:01 am

PockyCandy wrote:
leftsyde wrote:Does anyone else not like Gentry when it comes to in game adjustments and rotations, or do you think he is a great fit for this Pels team?


I get what you're saying, but nobody in the history of basketball has liked a coach's in-game adjustments or rotations.


I feel that, and was thinking the same when I posed the question. When the Raptors had Casey I wanted to pull my hair out, but with Nurse I am generally a lot more happy with adjustments. Changing coaching personnel is always a big risk, and often times doesn't yield expectations desired. Sometimes however, it is exactly what a team needs (GS, Raptors).

I have watched all the Pels games since Zions return, and some of these rotations have completely destroyed momentum and led to opponents having huge runs within minutes.

I know this is not the same case, just wondering if anybody feels the same.
GreatWhiteStiff
General Manager
Posts: 9,002
And1: 7,072
Joined: Oct 17, 2011
Location: #EmbraceTheTreadmill
 

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#39 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:13 am

E-Balla wrote:
whitehops wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:68-78 when he plays.. (.466)
27-46 when he doesn’t.. (.369)

Pels are 2-7 when he comes off the bench rather than starting too.

that's mainly from his time with the lakers, and has to do with who replaced him on a team that already was short on play makers. this year the pelicans are 19-28 with him (.404) and granted it is a small sample size but 4-4 without him this season. the difference is the pelicans have guys that can generate offense and hit from 3 whereas the lakers didn't.

He started the season off hurt. They're 16-9 since he's gotten back healthy and in the starting lineup.


Magic Johnson knows basketball.
"Yes because he completely turned around a disastrous 5-12 team and helped them in every facet of the game. If Melo keeps it up, he is legit MVP candidate."

-EricMillegan
hoosierdaddy34
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,612
And1: 1,060
Joined: Dec 05, 2016
 

Re: Pels Roster Fit 

Post#40 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:14 am

I don’t get where this fit issue comes in. Ingram is a wing that can score at 3 levels and Zion is an efficient face up 4, who has shown signs of progress outside. Both can pass the ball. Both can defend their positions, and even are switchable. I don’t see any fit issues, good teams have always made multiple playmakers work...in fact multiple are typically needed.

Return to The General Board