Pels Roster Fit

[hoosierdaddy34]

His playmaking is invaluable. They are 10-7 when he has 8 or more assists this season.

13-25 when he doesn’t, so I don’t think it’s reflective that they don’t need his playmaking like the lakers did.

if he really contributed to winning he'd have more games with 8+ assists

I have to think that he'll continue to grow as a play maker, especially considering the extra attention he's getting with the improvement in his shot. But there have been way too many games this year where he's had the ball in his hands all night, taken like 20 shots, and finished with only 1 or 2 assists.

The other issue for Ingram is defense. It's been a trend throughout his career that his teams perform better defensively when he's not on the court. This year he's last on the team in off court Drtg (i.e. they have the best Drtg when he's on the bench).

Here are his individual Synergy stats:

15th percentile guarding PnR
37th percentile guarding Post Ups
45th percentile guarding ISOs
43rd percentile guarding Spot Ups

I'd be tempted to play hard ball with Ingram in RFA. I know that's not a popular opinion in the player empowerment era. He's played well for half of one season. He's had a blood clot. Few teams have max cap space. Pelicans have other guys they need to pay big $$, etc., etc.

You will quickly lose him and he’s a perineal all-star for so many obvious reasons. Playing hardball with him would be a foolish move.

[VanWest82]

if he really contributed to winning he'd have more games with 8+ assists

I have to think that he'll continue to grow as a play maker, especially considering the extra attention he's getting with the improvement in his shot. But there have been way too many games this year where he's had the ball in his hands all night, taken like 20 shots, and finished with only 1 or 2 assists.

The other issue for Ingram is defense. It's been a trend throughout his career that his teams perform better defensively when he's not on the court. This year he's last on the team in off court Drtg (i.e. they have the best Drtg when he's on the bench).

Here are his individual Synergy stats:

15th percentile guarding PnR
37th percentile guarding Post Ups
45th percentile guarding ISOs
43rd percentile guarding Spot Ups

I'd be tempted to play hard ball with Ingram in RFA. I know that's not a popular opinion in the player empowerment era. He's played well for half of one season. He's had a blood clot. Few teams have max cap space. Pelicans have other guys they need to pay big $$, etc., etc.

You will quickly lose him and he’s a perineal all-star for so many obvious reasons. Playing hardball with him would be a foolish move.

Could happen but it won't be for a year. Worst case is he takes the QO and maybe Pelicans give him the Nerlens treatment on his way out the door. Not exactly ideal for either side. More likely is he settles for 110M for the reasons I mentioned. Better than paying him 140M+. He'll probably still be overpaid @ 110 but at least he'll be tradeable if the fit with Zion turns out to be rough.

Edit: would his contract even be insurable? Seems like a hell of a risk for Pelicans. That's worth something in concession.

[hoosierdaddy34]

I have to think that he'll continue to grow as a play maker, especially considering the extra attention he's getting with the improvement in his shot. But there have been way too many games this year where he's had the ball in his hands all night, taken like 20 shots, and finished with only 1 or 2 assists.

The other issue for Ingram is defense. It's been a trend throughout his career that his teams perform better defensively when he's not on the court. This year he's last on the team in off court Drtg (i.e. they have the best Drtg when he's on the bench).

Here are his individual Synergy stats:

15th percentile guarding PnR
37th percentile guarding Post Ups
45th percentile guarding ISOs
43rd percentile guarding Spot Ups

I'd be tempted to play hard ball with Ingram in RFA. I know that's not a popular opinion in the player empowerment era. He's played well for half of one season. He's had a blood clot. Few teams have max cap space. Pelicans have other guys they need to pay big $$, etc., etc.

You will quickly lose him and he’s a perineal all-star for so many obvious reasons. Playing hardball with him would be a foolish move.

Could happen but it won't be for a year. Worst case is he takes the QO and maybe Pelicans give him the Nerlens treatment on his way out the door. Not exactly ideal for either side. More likely is he settles for 110M for the reasons I mentioned. Better than paying him 140M+. He'll probably still be overpaid @ 110 but at least he'll be tradeable if the fit with Zion turns out to be rough.

Edit: would his contract even be insurable? Seems like a hell of a risk for Pelicans. That's worth something in concession.

He’s already an all-star, at just 22, and not an injury replacement or choice in a watered down conference. This is a significant indicator of future play.

He will get the Max, there is no question.

Yes it’s insurable. His condition wasn’t remotely close to Chris Bosh’s. He is completely cleared, stop trying to make stuff up.

[Duke4life831]

I have to think that he'll continue to grow as a play maker, especially considering the extra attention he's getting with the improvement in his shot. But there have been way too many games this year where he's had the ball in his hands all night, taken like 20 shots, and finished with only 1 or 2 assists.

The other issue for Ingram is defense. It's been a trend throughout his career that his teams perform better defensively when he's not on the court. This year he's last on the team in off court Drtg (i.e. they have the best Drtg when he's on the bench).

Here are his individual Synergy stats:

15th percentile guarding PnR
37th percentile guarding Post Ups
45th percentile guarding ISOs
43rd percentile guarding Spot Ups

I'd be tempted to play hard ball with Ingram in RFA. I know that's not a popular opinion in the player empowerment era. He's played well for half of one season. He's had a blood clot. Few teams have max cap space. Pelicans have other guys they need to pay big $$, etc., etc.

You will quickly lose him and he’s a perineal all-star for so many obvious reasons. Playing hardball with him would be a foolish move.

Could happen but it won't be for a year. Worst case is he takes the QO and maybe Pelicans give him the Nerlens treatment on his way out the door. Not exactly ideal for either side. More likely is he settles for 110M for the reasons I mentioned. Better than paying him 140M+. He'll probably still be overpaid @ 110 but at least he'll be tradeable if the fit with Zion turns out to be rough.

Edit: would his contract even be insurable? Seems like a hell of a risk for Pelicans. That's worth something in concession.

There is a 0% chance a team doesn't offer Ingram the max in the Summer. The only question is does the Pels offer the 5 year max or not.

[VanWest82]

You will quickly lose him and he’s a perineal all-star for so many obvious reasons. Playing hardball with him would be a foolish move.

Could happen but it won't be for a year. Worst case is he takes the QO and maybe Pelicans give him the Nerlens treatment on his way out the door. Not exactly ideal for either side. More likely is he settles for 110M for the reasons I mentioned. Better than paying him 140M+. He'll probably still be overpaid @ 110 but at least he'll be tradeable if the fit with Zion turns out to be rough.

Edit: would his contract even be insurable? Seems like a hell of a risk for Pelicans. That's worth something in concession.

He’s already an all-star, at just 22, and not an injury replacement or choice in a watered down conference. This is a significant indicator of future play.

He will get the Max, there is no question.

Yes it’s insurable. His condition wasn’t remotely close to Chris Bosh’s. He is completely cleared, stop trying to make stuff up.

I'm not making anything up. He's had a blod clot. Do you work in insurance, specifically insuring pro athletes? You seem pretty sure of yourself. I was just asking a question. Perhaps you're the one making stuff up.

[VanWest82]

You will quickly lose him and he’s a perineal all-star for so many obvious reasons. Playing hardball with him would be a foolish move.

Could happen but it won't be for a year. Worst case is he takes the QO and maybe Pelicans give him the Nerlens treatment on his way out the door. Not exactly ideal for either side. More likely is he settles for 110M for the reasons I mentioned. Better than paying him 140M+. He'll probably still be overpaid @ 110 but at least he'll be tradeable if the fit with Zion turns out to be rough.

Edit: would his contract even be insurable? Seems like a hell of a risk for Pelicans. That's worth something in concession.

There is a 0% chance a team doesn't offer Ingram the max in the Summer. The only question is does the Pels offer the 5 year max or not.

People keep saying this. Who is going to offer him the max? He's RFA. There are very few teams projected to have max cap space and the ones that do are terrible situations or have their own free agents to re-sign. Are the Raptors, for example, going to tie up their cap for a few days chasing Ingram and watch Ibaka, Gasol, FVV, etc. walk?

Teams are going to assume Pelicans will match anything because they will, and because of that Pelicans will wait. It won't take long before teams spend their cap on more attainable players, and at that point what are Ingram's options? Take Pelicans best offer or take the QO. It's possible someone like Knicks throws everything at him day one because they're stupid and they know they're not getting anyone anyway. I'm not convinced that's going to happen though. Pelicans have every incentive to wait it out.

[Pennebaker]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're definitely going to move on from Ingram.

His value is pretty high, but he cant co-exist with someone like Zion. He needs to be the main dude. So he's a goner.

[coldfish]

I really don't see the issue as bad as other people do. Is it perfect? No. That said, you can pick on the flaws of any team. NOP has most of the bases covered and can come at people with a variety of lineups. They are currently an absurd +12.9 net rating with Zion on the court. Ingram and Zion are +9.0.

IMO, they are going to go on a huge run to close the year (barring injury).

[mudsak]

I don't understand why OP would insinuate Ingram can't fit with Zion. I watch Ingram play and I feel like he could basically fit on any roster in the NBA and be effective. The dude can score in literally any place on the court. His only weakness is on the other end of the court against bigger/stronger wings. But you don't have Ingram for elite defense, so who cares.

As for Hayes... What is that kid?... 19yo? He's an athletic freak-show. I'd keep him on and develop him under the cheap contract. In the end of the day... how many stretch 5's are there in the league?... not very many.

Lonzo seems like the ideal PG for this team imo. He's long, athletic, and has really surprised with his ability to hit shots from distance this season. I'm impressed tbh. He's got terrific court-vision, handles the ball well, and is a threat to drive/finish. He's surrounded by two offensive beasts. This Pels team has an awesome roster imo. I'll be excited to watch them develop over the next couple of years.

[hoosierdaddy34]

Could happen but it won't be for a year. Worst case is he takes the QO and maybe Pelicans give him the Nerlens treatment on his way out the door. Not exactly ideal for either side. More likely is he settles for 110M for the reasons I mentioned. Better than paying him 140M+. He'll probably still be overpaid @ 110 but at least he'll be tradeable if the fit with Zion turns out to be rough.

Edit: would his contract even be insurable? Seems like a hell of a risk for Pelicans. That's worth something in concession.

He’s already an all-star, at just 22, and not an injury replacement or choice in a watered down conference. This is a significant indicator of future play.

He will get the Max, there is no question.

Yes it’s insurable. His condition wasn’t remotely close to Chris Bosh’s. He is completely cleared, stop trying to make stuff up.

I'm not making anything up. He's had a blod clot. Do you work in insurance, specifically insuring pro athletes? You seem pretty sure of yourself. I was just asking a question. Perhaps you're the one making stuff up.

Hakeem Olajuwon had blood clots in 1989, did he have problems getting his contract insured? Tyreke Evans? Anderson Varajao? Plenty of MLB and NHL guys have had them. If it’s caught early, like Ingram, it’s not a problem. But if it’s caught late and has stuck to the lungs, then it’s a serious problem.

[Upperclass]

Lonzo and Ingram are fools gold and won't contribute in a good coaches offense or defensive scheme(in Ingram's case). Lonzo does compete however and would make for a good 3rd utility guard on most teams. They should purge as much of this roster as possible and let go of Gentry to find better fits for Zions talent immediately

[Lalouie]

you need lonzo. he's just now tapping in and he gets zion the ball.

as for other fit issues, it takes longer than a few games to see what works,,,,or for them to work it out. me, i'm not a fan of ingram. zion i think can play anywhere. he's a high efficiency player who's always near the ball.

[Johnny Bball]

For sure. This team was built with a "whatever you got trade" . So I don't think this is an unreasonable perception or reality, but they also haven't had any time to build it. Summer is where it all should change or maybe in two summers since its pretty hard to actually trade in the NBA.

And Jrue doesn't fit any timeline for them and will be moved.

[AussieRules]

This team would be dangerous once Lonzo and Zion learn how to shoot freethrows

[grindtime22]

Hanging on to Jrue would be a mistake.

They have their franchise player. They are in a small market. They had one chance with AD and screwed it up by continually having a short term outlook. They have their second chance now. They should take a different approach. Every decision needs to be made with the long term outlook in mind. You shouldn't just hang on and let his contract play out. You have to be shrewd and continually recycle your assets so that decisions you made a few years ago are paying off now and decisions you make now are paying off in a few years.

[NBAFan93]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're definitely going to move on from Ingram.

His value is pretty high, but he cant co-exist with someone like Zion. He needs to be the main dude. So he's a goner.

So they are just going to let him walk? He was a major piece from the AD trade? I guess they could - but hasn’t he proven himself to actually be kinda good?

[DCRYsing89]

As the pels move forward the way they are thinking I feel is,
Well Jrue, Reddick, Moore and Favour although nice peices, are not long-term... (Melli also sits here)

Lonzo-Hart-Ingram-Zion is their main core they are thinking of holding onto...
Hart being 3&D and least important.
I feel the other 3 though 3-2-1, are their pillars, and all can learn to play off and improve each other.
NAW fits eventually as that 6th man, he is expected to do a little of everything also, so in time development should allow him next to lonzo.
Hayes may not fit with Zion now, but over time he may develop a jumper, and if that happens he will fit fine. (In the mean time he fits well with the rest of the core allowing them to play well if Zion is out)

Their other young guys (Williams, Okafor and Jackson) are not in the long term plans bar maybe minimum guys.
But then it also all matters on money,
They said they willing on maxing Ingram, Lonzo I see them as willing to give him 20+mil if he continues to play well and improve.
Harts contract will be up soon as well, and I see him commanding maybe 7mil a year... they would keep him at that price, but anything over 12mil, they probably let him walk without substantial improvement soon.

Just my look on the situation

[Mrakar]

Fit is great, however coaching is what sucks...
This team has potential to be one of the best defensive teams in NBA and pels are somehow one of the worst...

[hoosierdaddy34]

Could happen but it won't be for a year. Worst case is he takes the QO and maybe Pelicans give him the Nerlens treatment on his way out the door. Not exactly ideal for either side. More likely is he settles for 110M for the reasons I mentioned. Better than paying him 140M+. He'll probably still be overpaid @ 110 but at least he'll be tradeable if the fit with Zion turns out to be rough.

Edit: would his contract even be insurable? Seems like a hell of a risk for Pelicans. That's worth something in concession.

There is a 0% chance a team doesn't offer Ingram the max in the Summer. The only question is does the Pels offer the 5 year max or not.

People keep saying this. Who is going to offer him the max? He's RFA. There are very few teams projected to have max cap space and the ones that do are terrible situations or have their own free agents to re-sign. Are the Raptors, for example, going to tie up their cap for a few days chasing Ingram and watch Ibaka, Gasol, FVV, etc. walk?

Teams are going to assume Pelicans will match anything because they will, and because of that Pelicans will wait. It won't take long before teams spend their cap on more attainable players, and at that point what are Ingram's options? Take Pelicans best offer or take the QO. It's possible someone like Knicks throws everything at him day one because they're stupid and they know they're not getting anyone anyway. I'm not convinced that's going to happen though. Pelicans have every incentive to wait it out.

Charlotte, the Knicks, Atlanta, Detroit all would. PHX could move the final year if Oubre’s deal and have max cap space to offer. There are plenty of teams that would be lining up to sign a 22 year old all-star small forward. But generally their current teams don’t F around with this level of young player and they just lock them up early. That’s typically how this goes for young players of his caliber. There isn’t even really a debate here to be had, it’s what is going to happen and what most of the experts expect to happen.

[Cuban_Linx]

Surprised at how low Ingram is valued in this thread. He's flashing serious offensive superstar potential this season. His D has been pretty bad, but I wouldn't put too much stock in that this season. He's a 6'7" beanpole coached by defensive zero Alvin Gentry who has him guarding up a position way too much. He'll be much better on that end once he gets to mainly guard 3s again. Ask Laker fans how much better he is using his quickness and length to guard wings.

He's going to be a good fit alongside a healthy Zion relieving him from guarding 4s. I can't believe people here are taking Lonzo over him. There's a hard ceiling on relying on a lead guard who's unable to score inside the arc and he doesn't look like improving that.