Rookie Discussion [19/20] [part I]

[HoopsterJones]

If Memphis makes the playoffs it should be Ja Morant. If the Pelicans make the playoffs, it should be Zion (despite missing like half a season).

I personally find this take ridiculous.

My day has been ruined. Oh no.

[Marcus]

still way too early to make any real changes other than to guys who should've obviously gone a lot higher (Porter Jr., Davis, Dort, Clarke)...heck...my #2 prospect in the entire class hasn't even played yet

Ideally how do you envision Bol Bol fitting with the Nuggets anyway? super 6-man? Playing the 4 next to Jokic with MPJ playing the 3? Eventually taking Joker's spot?

probably starts out as the 1st big off the bench but I see no issued him playing in the front court with Jokic moving forward

The offensive potential of that frontline could be frightening if all things pan out and talent prevails.

[Ambrose]

If Memphis makes the playoffs it should be Ja Morant. If the Pelicans make the playoffs, it should be Zion (despite missing like half a season).

I personally find this take ridiculous.

My day has been ruined. Oh no.

I don't mean to insult you personally. It's the idea that one of those teams making the playoffs is the deciding factor of the ROY award that's absurd to me. Are we going to ignore that the Pelicans were 10-4 the 14 before Zion showed up? Are we going ignore that they have the easiest schedule in the NBA going forward and have dealt with significant injuries while playing a grueling schedule early in the year? Are we going to ignore that Memphis was the odds on favorite to be the worst team in the West and have been the conferences biggest overachiever? Your statement ignores all of that. It's too simplistic.

[mr570]

Why is there no Luguentz Dort option?

[Jadoogar]

The difference in games played can’t be ignored

why not?

Who says how many games you have to play? What is the cutoff? 38 games? 41? 50?

If one guy plays 35ish games, get his team into playoff contention, and is far and away the best rookie...

Why wouldn't he be rookie of the year? Its nonsense.

Because availability matters. Would you be ok with an MVP that only plays 30 games?
The only reason Embiid/Brogdon was a debate was because Brogdon's numbers weren't anything special (10/4). This year we don't have that problem, Morant's numbers have been great and his team was doing great.

[HoopsterJones]

I personally find this take ridiculous.

My day has been ruined. Oh no.

I don't mean to insult you personally. It's the idea that one of those teams making the playoffs is the deciding factor of the ROY award that's absurd to me. Are we going to ignore that the Pelicans were 10-4 the 14 before Zion showed up? Are we going ignore that they have the easiest schedule in the NBA going forward and have dealt with significant injuries while playing a grueling schedule early in the year? Are we going to ignore that Memphis was the odds on favorite to be the worst team in the West and have been the conferences biggest overachiever? Your statement ignores all of that. It's too simplistic.

Honestly it’s been Ja Morant’s award to lose at this point. He should be the clear cut ROY. Zion has been impressive nonetheless.

MVP voting is influenced by a team’s overall record. Is it a stretch to say that this wouldn’t be a factor for ROY voting?

[Jadoogar]

My day has been ruined. Oh no.

I don't mean to insult you personally. It's the idea that one of those teams making the playoffs is the deciding factor of the ROY award that's absurd to me. Are we going to ignore that the Pelicans were 10-4 the 14 before Zion showed up? Are we going ignore that they have the easiest schedule in the NBA going forward and have dealt with significant injuries while playing a grueling schedule early in the year? Are we going to ignore that Memphis was the odds on favorite to be the worst team in the West and have been the conferences biggest overachiever? Your statement ignores all of that. It's too simplistic.

Honestly it’s been Ja Morant’s award to lose at this point. He should be the clear cut ROY. Zion has been impressive nonetheless.

MVP voting is influenced by a team’s overall record. Is it a stretch to say that this wouldn’t be a factor for ROY voting?

Historically team record has not mattered for ROY. Top rookies tend to go to bad teams and are expected to miss the playoffs.

[Dollop]

Zion is better but Ja has been so impressive for an entire season. Memphis has overachieved and he is the main reason.

There are years were Zion would be so much better than the competition that 30 games or so would do it. This isn’t it.

[Mbrahv0528]

If Memphis makes the playoffs it should be Ja Morant. If the Pelicans make the playoffs, it should be Zion (despite missing like half a season).

Yeah that's not how ROY voting works, nor should it.

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[HoopsterJones]

I don't mean to insult you personally. It's the idea that one of those teams making the playoffs is the deciding factor of the ROY award that's absurd to me. Are we going to ignore that the Pelicans were 10-4 the 14 before Zion showed up? Are we going ignore that they have the easiest schedule in the NBA going forward and have dealt with significant injuries while playing a grueling schedule early in the year? Are we going to ignore that Memphis was the odds on favorite to be the worst team in the West and have been the conferences biggest overachiever? Your statement ignores all of that. It's too simplistic.

Honestly it’s been Ja Morant’s award to lose at this point. He should be the clear cut ROY. Zion has been impressive nonetheless.

MVP voting is influenced by a team’s overall record. Is it a stretch to say that this wouldn’t be a factor for ROY voting?

Historically team record has not mattered for ROY. Top rookies tend to go to bad teams and are expected to miss the playoffs.

It may influence some votes this time around. I still believe that Ja will win ROY but Zion will be a surprisingly close second place in votes.

Embiid was slightly behind Saric for third place in votes in 2016-2017 and he only played 31 games.

[NO-KG-AI]

The ROY doesn’t have clear criteria or definition.

I don’t care who wins the ROY, I just think the people pretending Ja and Zion are close as actual players is kind of funny, and a testament to people just trying so hard to lobby for a pointless reward.


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[Young gun 6]

The ROY doesn’t have clear criteria or definition.

I don’t care who wins the ROY, I just think the people pretending Ja and Zion are close as actual players is kind of funny, and a testament to people just trying so hard to lobby for a pointless reward.


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Does anything have a clear criteria though?

It’s pretty evident based on history with awards what voters are looking for:

MVP - top 2 record in your conference unless you achieve something never done before (I.e Westbrook Triple Double average for the season)

Rookie of the Year - 50+ games played. No rookie has ever won playing less than 50 games and the ones around the mark have generally been in lockout shortened seasons.


There isn’t really definable criteria year on year for any awards but the above 2 have been consistent for 40+ years so it’s pretty easy to interpret that as a general rule of thumb when looking at who will win the awards.

Does it mean they SHOULD win, definitely not, but it does show who will win based on history.

[J___Av]

The ROY doesn’t have clear criteria or definition.

I don’t care who wins the ROY, I just think the people pretending Ja and Zion are close as actual players is kind of funny, and a testament to people just trying so hard to lobby for a pointless reward.


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I would say VERY few people actually say Ja and Zion are close as players anymore. Its more now the argument of the ROY criteria

[J___Av]

:roll:

The ROY doesn’t have clear criteria or definition.

I don’t care who wins the ROY, I just think the people pretending Ja and Zion are close as actual players is kind of funny, and a testament to people just trying so hard to lobby for a pointless reward.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Does anything have a clear criteria though?

It’s pretty evident based on history with awards what voters are looking for:

MVP - top 2 record in your conference unless you achieve something never done before (I.e Westbrook Triple Double average for the season)

Rookie of the Year - 50+ games played. No rookie has ever won playing less than 50 games and the ones around the mark have generally been in lockout shortened seasons.


There isn’t really definable criteria year on year for any awards but the above 2 have been consistent for 40+ years so it’s pretty easy to interpret that as a general rule of thumb when looking at who will win the awards.

Does it mean they SHOULD win, definitely not, but it does show who will win based on history.

Zion is not like other players in the past though. Not saying he is way better, but the media loves him like no rookie i have seen besides maybe Lebron. From what i have see probably half the media at least is saying they would give Zion the ROY if they get the 8th seed. I personally don't think he should even though he is the better player. But it looks like the media are going to push hard for him if he gets to the playoffs. He has the popularity, the narrative and the media support someone like Embiid didn't have

[PMONSTER]

Zion making so many of his doubters on this GM board look like morons.

they're gonna slowly start disappearing

are there doubters and his game or his ability to stay healthy?

because everybody recognizes the talent but I am in the camp that also sees the possibility of him getting hurt in every game that he plays

[KingDavid]

Lol wrong thread

[Young gun 6]

:roll:

The ROY doesn’t have clear criteria or definition.

I don’t care who wins the ROY, I just think the people pretending Ja and Zion are close as actual players is kind of funny, and a testament to people just trying so hard to lobby for a pointless reward.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Does anything have a clear criteria though?

It’s pretty evident based on history with awards what voters are looking for:

MVP - top 2 record in your conference unless you achieve something never done before (I.e Westbrook Triple Double average for the season)

Rookie of the Year - 50+ games played. No rookie has ever won playing less than 50 games and the ones around the mark have generally been in lockout shortened seasons.


There isn’t really definable criteria year on year for any awards but the above 2 have been consistent for 40+ years so it’s pretty easy to interpret that as a general rule of thumb when looking at who will win the awards.

Does it mean they SHOULD win, definitely not, but it does show who will win based on history.

Zion is not like other players in the past though. Not saying he is way better, but the media loves him like no rookie i have seen besides maybe Lebron. From what i have see probably half the media at least is saying they would give Zion the ROY if they get the 8th seed. I personally don't think he should even though he is the better player. But it looks like the media are going to push hard for him if he gets to the playoffs. He has the popularity, the narrative and the media support someone like Embiid didn't have

That’s very true.

Embiid sitting out the 2nd half of the season didn’t help either.

Media love fresh narratives.

What they’ll fail to factor in is what Pels were expected to be, his supporting cast, their schedule when he sat and their schedule when he played and just feast on all the stats showing the team is so good when he’s played (which is true but contextually only a small part of what’s going on).

[deneem4]

Coby white is putting his name on the board these last couple games

[Young gun 6]

101 points last 3 games.

That is definitely a rookie record for bench players at least.

Other rookies may have had similar 3 game stretches but no chance it was off the bench.

[clyde21]

another 35 bomb for Coby, wow