Moderators: Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36, j4remi, NoLayupRule, HerSports85, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23
Clyde_Style wrote:NYF13 wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
OK, Punxsutawney Phil, thanks for leaving your burrow to impart that to us.
Was that supposed to mean? We just had the moderator say no name calling. What’s going on?
Um, you appeared out of nowhere saying the bold above and you were not name calling?
My response was mild by comparison
NYF13 wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:NYF13 wrote:
Was that supposed to mean? We just had the moderator say no name calling. What’s going on?
Um, you appeared out of nowhere saying the bold above and you were not name calling?
My response was mild by comparison
What you mean by appear from nowhere? I am always hear just listening to this Alexandria Cortez kinda of ladies arguing for a party that sucks.
Clyde_Style wrote:NYF13 wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
Um, you appeared out of nowhere saying the bold above and you were not name calling?
My response was mild by comparison
What you mean by appear from nowhere? I am always hear just listening to this Alexandria Cortez kinda of ladies arguing for a party that sucks.
You have 354 posts since 2016. We don't know you. With no prior participation in the conversation, you posted "You guys are a joke". Nothing more to say about it. Now you're adding more insults and expect special consideration? Truly clueless
Guano wrote:Fourni3r forgetting he has Bob cousy handles
Woodsanity wrote:Imagine trusting a team with World B Flat on it without Lebron keeping him in check.
Stannis wrote:Did you guys read the Tulsi Gabbard brother rumor?
I don't see how endorsing Biden is continue to fight the establishment.
Also, it's funny how Tulsi is no longer considered a "Russian asset anymore". The establishment has got to stop throwing that at anyone that poses a threat. Because it's starting to get meaningless.
Guano wrote:Fourni3r forgetting he has Bob cousy handles
Woodsanity wrote:Imagine trusting a team with World B Flat on it without Lebron keeping him in check.
GONYK wrote:
This was a fantastic listen. Thanks for the share.
I agree with them that there is an opportunity to for Bernie and Warren to shape some of the brain trust around Biden, because he's really just cipher. People are voting for him because he's familiar, and people perceive him to be a competent manager. There is no policy attached to him, and nobody really cares.
So for the part of the electorate that really cares about policy, he could start cheating off of Liz and Bernie's tests so he can craft an actual agenda.
GONYK wrote:j4remi wrote:
Great interview with Weigel for Sam Seder here. If you're looking for legitimate voices that express the dynamics on the left, when the Majority Report is at full force you've got representation from Sam who's a bit more grounded to Jamie Elizabeth who's an anarcho-socialist. Michael Brooks and Matt Lech tend to be who I align with most (along with Ben Dixon who's also great listening).
This convo in particular is really interesting. How does Bernie leverage his influence and how do we lefties extract more from Biden so the Republicans can't try to run to his left on economic issues (we're gonna see them try and politics is narrative building point blank). Weigel sees space to pull Biden left on loan forgiveness, not the full loan forgiveness that Bernie and Warren push for but there's a lot of space for Joe there. I think two low hanging fruits are marijuana legalization and postal service banking. I wish Booker would get his baby bonds idea on SOMEBODY'S platform too but he barely mentioned it his damned self.
The example to take there is that Biden fell off his long time support of the Hyde Amendment in this campaign. So pulling him left on a few issues that could help sure up younger voters makes sense.
The other bit that I think Bernie might be able to leverage for some added pull is just how strong his digital game is. Bernie was way out ahead of everybody developing a digital infrastructure and given these complicated times; that can be really useful for outreach when you're literally not allowed to rally. Though Biden was pretty weak on the rallying front anyway. He may be a "the less you know" candidate which has always been my concern.
This was a fantastic listen. Thanks for the share.
I agree with them that there is an opportunity to for Bernie and Warren to shape some of the brain trust around Biden, because he's really just cipher. People are voting for him because he's familiar, and people perceive him to be a competent manager. There is no policy attached to him, and nobody really cares.
So for the part of the electorate that really cares about policy, he could start cheating off of Liz and Bernie's tests so he can craft an actual agenda.
Stannis wrote:Did you guys read the Tulsi Gabbard brother rumor?
I don't see how endorsing Biden is continuing to fight the establishment.
Also, it's funny how Tulsi is no longer considered a "Russian asset anymore". The establishment has got to stop throwing that at anyone that poses a threat. Because it's starting to get meaningless.
Pointgod wrote:Stannis wrote:Did you guys read the Tulsi Gabbard brother rumor?
I don't see how endorsing Biden is continuing to fight the establishment.
Also, it's funny how Tulsi is no longer considered a "Russian asset anymore". The establishment has got to stop throwing that at anyone that poses a threat. Because it's starting to get meaningless.
Tulsi Gabbard is an opportunist and full of ****. I don’t believe a single thing that comes out of her mouth or anyone close to her. She’s supposedly anti establishment but somehow supported Biden because she doesn’t want to back a loser despite her ideological purity.
And she was still a Russian asset, it doesn’t mean she was working hand and hand with Russia but at the worst she’s most definitely a useful idiot that was boosted by Russian bots. The past doesn’t stop being true just because she supported Biden, I’m sure she’ll continue to attack Democrats.
Pointgod wrote:GONYK wrote:j4remi wrote:
Great interview with Weigel for Sam Seder here. If you're looking for legitimate voices that express the dynamics on the left, when the Majority Report is at full force you've got representation from Sam who's a bit more grounded to Jamie Elizabeth who's an anarcho-socialist. Michael Brooks and Matt Lech tend to be who I align with most (along with Ben Dixon who's also great listening).
This convo in particular is really interesting. How does Bernie leverage his influence and how do we lefties extract more from Biden so the Republicans can't try to run to his left on economic issues (we're gonna see them try and politics is narrative building point blank). Weigel sees space to pull Biden left on loan forgiveness, not the full loan forgiveness that Bernie and Warren push for but there's a lot of space for Joe there. I think two low hanging fruits are marijuana legalization and postal service banking. I wish Booker would get his baby bonds idea on SOMEBODY'S platform too but he barely mentioned it his damned self.
The example to take there is that Biden fell off his long time support of the Hyde Amendment in this campaign. So pulling him left on a few issues that could help sure up younger voters makes sense.
The other bit that I think Bernie might be able to leverage for some added pull is just how strong his digital game is. Bernie was way out ahead of everybody developing a digital infrastructure and given these complicated times; that can be really useful for outreach when you're literally not allowed to rally. Though Biden was pretty weak on the rallying front anyway. He may be a "the less you know" candidate which has always been my concern.
This was a fantastic listen. Thanks for the share.
I agree with them that there is an opportunity to for Bernie and Warren to shape some of the brain trust around Biden, because he's really just cipher. People are voting for him because he's familiar, and people perceive him to be a competent manager. There is no policy attached to him, and nobody really cares.
So for the part of the electorate that really cares about policy, he could start cheating off of Liz and Bernie's tests so he can craft an actual agenda.
The biggest thing that Biden should do in this case is to assign Elizabeth Warren to write his policies. Not only would it increase his Progressive bonifides, but Warren is bar none the best policy expert that was running in the Primary. Biden can paint the broad strokes but Warren can fill in the details and be more bold.
Clyde_Style wrote:
Short of picking her as the VP, I think you're right. In that case, she should stay in the Senate as a leading light to transform the legislature.
With your approach, she gets to nail both approaches while giving Biden plenty of cover to install progressive policies within a perceived moderate coalition.
Warren is respected within the party far more than Bernie who has a long history of failure in passing meaningful legislation. She knows how to play the game while keeping her progressive cred intact.
She will influence the future of the Democratic Party far more than Bernie. I hope Sanders supporters realize this, because Warren is our friend and she needs our support too.
j4remi wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:
Short of picking her as the VP, I think you're right. In that case, she should stay in the Senate as a leading light to transform the legislature.
With your approach, she gets to nail both approaches while giving Biden plenty of cover to install progressive policies within a perceived moderate coalition.
Warren is respected within the party far more than Bernie who has a long history of failure in passing meaningful legislation. She knows how to play the game while keeping her progressive cred intact.
She will influence the future of the Democratic Party far more than Bernie. I hope Sanders supporters realize this, because Warren is our friend and she needs our support too.
Warren's great, it'd take an incredible leap of logic to ignore that Bernie 2016 had massive influence over the direction campaigns took in this 2020 run from M4A winning every exit poll to Free Public College being normalized for debates to the Wealth Tax; Bernie 2016 shifted the conversations and policy possibilities in this country. Warren 2020 doesn't happen without Bernie 2016 flat out, we know because we (Bernie included) tried to draft her to run in 2016 at the height of her popularity with progressives and she wasn't up to it.
Building progressive infrastructure to run from? Justice Dems and Our Revolution have led the way, one built by leaders inspired by Bernie and the other by Bernie's staff themselves. The DCCC and DNC forced these progressive groups to build parallel campaigning structures by threatening consultants with black balling.
Proteges? Those two aforementioned groups helped bring us the Squad. AOC, Ayanna Pressley (miss me with endorsing Warren, bc I know it's coming and we both know she HAD to), Rashida Talib and Ilhan Omar all acknowledged Bernie as inspirational in their initial runs. They're still linked under the progressive vision that Bernie built. Warren has a wildly impressive protege of her own in Katie Porter, but that's 1 to 4 and AOC is leading the pack.
We can speculate on Warren's future. All of the evidence is on Bernie's side here. And his accomplishments with the VA on bipartisan terms is much more impressive to me than getting the CFPB through a Democratic Super Majority. Miss me with the BS over your personal quarrels, this is the reality.
Clyde_Style wrote:I did not say Bernie has not had an influence on the direction of the party. I did say his relationships and legislative effectiveness within the party are not as strong as Warren's.
I did say Warren has a better relationship with the rest of the party and that of the two she likely has a stronger opportunity to work DIRECTLY with the Biden team to shape the platform.
What part of that requires me to spare you my BS?
At their respective ages, Warren still has lots of runway left in the party. This was Bernie's last run. His ability to use his influence will live on in you and his proteges, but he will not be on the stage that much longer in all likelihood. I see nothing controversial or contentious in saying that.
j4remi wrote:Clyde_Style wrote:I did not say Bernie has not had an influence on the direction of the party. I did say his relationships and legislative effectiveness within the party are not as strong as Warren's.
I did say Warren has a better relationship with the rest of the party and that of the two she likely has a stronger opportunity to work DIRECTLY with the Biden team to shape the platform.
What part of that requires me to spare you my BS?
At their respective ages, Warren still has lots of runway left in the party. This was Bernie's last run. His ability to use his influence will live on in you and his proteges, but he will not be on the stage that much longer in all likelihood. I see nothing controversial or contentious in saying that.
"She will influence the future of Democratic Party far more than Bernie."
Nope...I just laid out clearly why this isn't the case. I'm not putting more into it, just pointing out your flight of fancy is speculative and ignores the fact that the future of the party has already been shaped heavily by Bernie's influence. The same cannot and likely will never be said about Warren. She'll have been a good player in the game who made a lot of missteps that cost her being a bigger influence than she could have been.
