Semi-OT: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV (Must read Post 1)

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Further to the discussion on the lack of adequate N95 respirators, this is the CDC's own study on the possible needs in the case of a flu pandemic.

https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/60/suppl_1/S42/356585

The numbers are not counted in the millions, but in the billions. The large US population would devour millions of masks per hour.



They assume that surgical masks would be used only for patient intake and secondary protections - no civilian use - so those numbers come in lower:



So we're talking about hundreds of millions of surgical masks, and billions of N95 respirators, yet the stockpiles of either were somewhere around 1-5% of what these recommendations call for (depending on severity of scenario, vs the 39 million N95s that were apparently available.

Since we're going really in depth.

This is the UK's guidelines for health workers.
When to use a surgical face mask or FFP3 respirator
When caring for patients with suspected or confirmed COVID-19
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874310/PHE_11606_When_to_use_face_mask_or_FFP3_02.pdf

Surgical masks or any type of mask that can stop the spread of droplets/breath should be worn by the public after the first wave if we want to get back to working. They are having success all over Asia wearing masks to stop the spread, in Taiwan each person gets 3 per week. It's not solely about protecting yourself with masks, it's to eventually stop people from spreading the virus and forcing it into smaller and smaller clusters as more and more people wear them.

In America you could easily shift society towards wearing them, all it would take is celebrities and a constant talk about it on the news.

For now the masks should be reserved for doctors and nurses, but as more of those people recover and potentially become immune the shift should be towards the general public wearing masks in the future. The vaccine is too far off, so something else has to take its place to limit future waves. And once the market sees a need for it they will ramp up production hard.

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[bwgood77]

I agree with Dems we need increased unemployment for 6 months. The current $1800 max for California is a joke. That's about 60% of my bills. Also agree with Dems that disability should be increased $200 in this crises for those that can't even work.

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It's always likely right around the same $ of avg salary of a state.

State unemployment right now last six months. So they have time to figure that out. They pass a bill to get a check, people file for unemployment. You're just going to have to probably get rid of a $680 month car or whatever it is during a time like this if you lose your job and have to reduce expenses.

People will have it worse.

I wonder if some apartment complexes will reduce rates to try and keep people from moving out.

I know many mortage/note holders are suspending payments...that is coming from the banks...but the banks have to stay liquid too....I was checking the ones I have accounts at and they have pretty beefed up balance sheets....at least Capital One does.

Does the eviction protection cover my apartment??

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I have no idea. There are too many moving parts and too many talks without anything finalized to keep track of it all. Just trying to drains the time.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

South Korea is thinking so far outside the box, just incredible ingenuity.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

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[LKN]

I think a lot of internet doctors should read this

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[ken6199]

Surgical masks will have to be a thing for many months to come. It's not convenient for sure, and I know lot of people will say well it's not gonna protect me, think about the fact it can potentially stop YOU from spreading it to others. If lesser people are carrying the virus around you knowingly or unknowingly(!), doesn't that make you safe?

Like I said what I saw at the Seattle airport last weekend was absolutely unacceptable. A month ago you can say they shouldn't be wearing it due to the panic factor, now you have multiple states in lockdown mode, you have all 3 major NY airports shutdown "over the concern of virus exposure to staff", why wouldn't you want the staff to wear one? It makes zero sense. In China it was mandatory for all flight attendants to wear masks in February.

Look at this video. That lady was gasping because she got kicked out of the hospital for not being in a critical state, and not long ago she lost her husband. They said when you die from this you are fully conscious so you die painfully and which is worse you die without being able to say the last words to your loved ones because you are being isolated. I am not afraid of pain, but I will be scared af for leaving this world without saying something to my wife and kid.

Watch on YouTube

And look at these jackasses. This was last night. These jerks have no sense of responsibilities. They will probably wake up when they see their grandma die in pain. More precisely, they will get a phone call from some doctor to tell them their grandma just died lonely and in full pain.

Watch on YouTube

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

South Korea is thinking so far outside the box, just incredible ingenuity.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

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Yo, that's dope. They were much more prepared for this than the US, it appears.

[olhado]

Pretty interesting and seemingly effective tech being used in China

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Honestly the more I read about China and especially South Korea, the more primitive the North American response seems.

Well, China also forcibly locked people in their own homes. I think look at the entirety of the Chinese government’s response would show so fairly primitive methods in the mix.

You can separate the means of detection from the means of enforcement. The former is impressive, regardless of the latter.

Also, 9/11 taught us that in desperate times, it's acceptable to trade off certain freedoms for the protection of the masses (or it should have; refer to airport security changes) . Policing a lockdown is similar - it's useless for States to enact one without the means of enforcement.

For example, things have become so desperate in Italy that the military has been called in to help enforce the lockdown.

States, entire countries, need to do what they can if people are just so stupid and/or ignorant that they endanger the masses.

Sure, you can separate it. But in the post I was responding to, you hadn’t yet

Though that last statement is the roadmap to a bunch of low-friction descents.

[LordCovington33]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

[Richfield]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Can you look at that again? I think I'm misunderstanding, or you're missing a zero or two some place?

It seems you're saying the mask filters out particles of a much larger size than is the virus.

In spaghetti strainer terms, it sounds like your strainer holes are too big and your spaghetti gonna get thru.

[mcmurphy]

https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2020/03/21/news/coronavirus_cosi_la_repubblica_ceca_ha_sequestrato_680_mila_mascherine_inviate_dalla_cina_all_italia-251883320/?ref=RHPPTP-BH-I251578299-C12-P9-S2.4-T1

the Czech Republic arbitrarily confiscated a huge shipment of 680 thousand masks and thousands of respirators, which China would send as aid to Italy.

"Beijing and Rome have decided that the safest solution at this point is that a new load is leaving from the People's Republic to reach Italy." The material confiscated by the Czech authorities, moreover, "will remain in fact in the Czech Republic because it has already been distributed to national hospitals mobilized to deal with Coronavirus and recorded in their inventories". All apparently done without informing Chinese and Italians or asking for their permission.

jesus

[basketballRob]

Regarding masks, seems to me there is not enough precautions being taken in long term care facilities. In Canada, we are up 18 deaths, at least 12 of which are connected to 2 care centers. Need more discussion in protecting seniors especially over 70 yrs.

That's how it started here also. Almost all the deaths were connected to one retirement center. Now they're up to 35 deaths.

https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/21/us/coronavirus-nursing-home-kirkland-life-care.amp.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15848279334994&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2020%2F03%2F21%2Fus%2Fcoronavirus-nursing-home-kirkland-life-care.html

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[Zenzibar]

Regarding masks, seems to me there is not enough precautions being taken in long term care facilities. In Canada, we are up 18 deaths, at least 12 of which are connected to 2 care centers. Need more discussion in protecting seniors especially over 70 yrs.

That's how it started here also. Almost all the deaths were connected to one retirement center. Now they're up to 35 deaths.

https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/21/us/coronavirus-nursing-home-kirkland-life-care.amp.html?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15848279334994&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2020%2F03%2F21%2Fus%2Fcoronavirus-nursing-home-kirkland-life-care.html

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Please don't misinform. That nursing home just captured the news because many got infected at once and raised awareness. But in reality transmissions have been spreading throughout the globe simultaneously.

[Colbinii]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Either you had a type or you don't know how decimals work.

[LordCovington33]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Either you had a type or you don't know how decimals work.

Haha
I meant to say “inadequate”

Edit:
Good for stopping droplets you produce, but not for incoming particles.

[Colbinii]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Either you had a type or you don't know how decimals work.

Haha
I meant to say “inadequate”

All good. Stay safe.

[Richfield]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Either you had a type or you don't know how decimals work.

Haha
I meant to say “inadequate”

Can you link on that? And why perhaps it's not national news, unless it is. Please link.

Too many people posting false sht in this life and death thread already.

edit: just saw your edit about droplets. Would still love a link. But I see what your point is now, I think.

[bwgood77]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Either you had a type or you don't know how decimals work.

Haha
I meant to say “inadequate”

Edit:
Good for stopping droplets you produce, but not for incoming particles.

I saw a chart before, but have been unable to see it since, that said something along the lines of no mask, 17% chance of infection, surgical mask, 5%, N95, 4%.

I assume these %s relate to being exposed to someone with the virus...probably case by case.

[AdagioPace]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Either you had a type or you don't know how decimals work.

Haha
I meant to say “inadequate”

Edit:
Good for stopping droplets you produce, but not for incoming particles.

isnt the mask conceived to stop droplets of water vapor potentially containing the virus?

[Dirk]

Tidbit:
The coronavirus itself measures between .05 and 0.2 microns in diameter, while the N95 masks filter out particles measuring 0.3 microns in diameter, so they provide an adequate level of protection.

Either you had a type or you don't know how decimals work.

Haha
I meant to say “inadequate”

Edit:
Good for stopping droplets you produce, but not for incoming particles.

These are quotes from Peter Piot
co-discoverer of the Ebola virus,the Director of London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine

How about masks? Are those blue surgical masks or an N95 facemask useful?

Masks have very limited value except in certain specific circumstances. For example, depending on the type of N95 mask, just under 50% of inbound virus particles will be filtered out, but they may reduce spread from airborne droplets.

What are the advantages of masks when used properly and who should wear masks?

The best masks, carefully fitted and worn properly, slow down the spread FROM sick people coughing. Meaning, the mask is not to protect you from other people; it is to protect other people from you. It is a courtesy to others to wear a mask when you get what you think is a cold, and you start coughing. Masks have an additional benefit: they make it less likely that you will touch your mouth, so it becomes less likely that if you have the virus on your hands, you will transfer it into your body. Masks provide benefits for healthcare workers. If you work in a healthcare setting or in elder care, masks are mandatory.

[Bottomsouth]

South Korea is thinking so far outside the box, just incredible ingenuity.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

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It’s somewhat misleading, the temporary phone booth structure is a swab collection like a drive thru but safer for the doctor/nurse. You still have to wait for the test results. I am sure we could do this or better had there been less red tape.