Anyone else surprised that we haven't seen another Shaq like player

[Fencer reregistered]

Ahem, Glen Davis?
Nathan Jawai?

Both were Shaq clones, physically and ability wise.

Big Baby didn't get that done in the pros at all. And given that he was drafted in the second round, I imagine he didn't really in college either.

His strength was real. He used it to defend Yao in the post, for example. But he didn't have the rest of the package.

And while the story of him outwrestling Shaq as a teenager is cool, one anecdote like that doesn't really prove much ... except again that the guy was STRONG.

[dhsilv2]

I mean, yes and no.

Cousins, by any other standard than Shaq, is a massive man. But that said, he's closer to 6'10"-6'11" than to being a 7 footer, and when he was carrying around 280 it was generally considered too much. Maybe 265-270 would be a good strength weight. One of the most powerful players of his era, but I still remember him running into late career Shaq when he was a...rookie? young at least, and he just bounced off the immense wall that Shaq had become.

And athletically, Cousins was freakish with his quickness and ballhandling for a player his size, but his weakness was always that he could not jump. Shaq was never quick like that, but his leaping ability as a young man was ridiculous at that size and he annually led the league in dunks forever. They both had exceptional athletic traits for players their size, but they were kind of a study in opposites traitwise.

Cousins has played in excess of 300 pounds, at 275 that was about his leanest of his career post olympics. Not sure why 3 inches matters beyond just the magical "7" being listed there. Beyond that boogie also has a lot of the guard like skills and mobility we think of with prime shaq. Shaq on another tier of course, but he's a pretty good comp

If we include shorter guys though, then there are more than that. Bob Lanier played at 280 lbs consistently, Wayne Embry was even shorter and just as heavy, Andre Drummond was very thick too. I don't know how much they weighed, but you also have guys like Darryl Dawkins and Nikola Jokic.

None of them was as athletic as Shaq though, Cousins included.

Cousins of that group moves the most like shaq though which is why he's such a good comp. Cousins isn't as explosive but he's got the grace and fluidity in his movements that made shaq special.

[70sFan]

Cousins has played in excess of 300 pounds, at 275 that was about his leanest of his career post olympics. Not sure why 3 inches matters beyond just the magical "7" being listed there. Beyond that boogie also has a lot of the guard like skills and mobility we think of with prime shaq. Shaq on another tier of course, but he's a pretty good comp

If we include shorter guys though, then there are more than that. Bob Lanier played at 280 lbs consistently, Wayne Embry was even shorter and just as heavy, Andre Drummond was very thick too. I don't know how much they weighed, but you also have guys like Darryl Dawkins and Nikola Jokic.

None of them was as athletic as Shaq though, Cousins included.

Cousins of that group moves the most like shaq though which is why he's such a good comp. Cousins isn't as explosive but he's got the grace and fluidity in his movements that made shaq special.

Lanier was just as fluid though.

[dhsilv2]

If we include shorter guys though, then there are more than that. Bob Lanier played at 280 lbs consistently, Wayne Embry was even shorter and just as heavy, Andre Drummond was very thick too. I don't know how much they weighed, but you also have guys like Darryl Dawkins and Nikola Jokic.

None of them was as athletic as Shaq though, Cousins included.

Cousins of that group moves the most like shaq though which is why he's such a good comp. Cousins isn't as explosive but he's got the grace and fluidity in his movements that made shaq special.

Lanier was just as fluid though.

Watch on YouTube

no...not really.

[70sFan]

Cousins of that group moves the most like shaq though which is why he's such a good comp. Cousins isn't as explosive but he's got the grace and fluidity in his movements that made shaq special.

Lanier was just as fluid though.

Watch on YouTube

no...not really.

You use my own video against me, how dare you!

But seriously, the only thing that Lanier lacked was lateral quickness and Boggie was never quick himself. Otherwise, Lanier was extremely fluid, he had decent handles and very good footwork. I see them as very similar from athletic standpoint.

[dhsilv2]

Lanier was just as fluid though.

Watch on YouTube

no...not really.

You use my own video against me, how dare you!

But seriously, the only thing that Lanier lacked was lateral quickness and Boggie was never quick himself. Otherwise, Lanier was extremely fluid, he had decent handles and very good footwork. I see them as very similar from athletic standpoint.

Cousins is much more a ballerina with is foot work. He's a 7 foot point guard in his head...which trust me watching him at kentucky that got frustrating lol.

Lanier is by no means a flat footed big or lacking coordination, but he's just not the same as the shaq boogie ballerina like movement. There's just a grace to how some guys move...

[70sFan]

Watch on YouTube

no...not really.

You use my own video against me, how dare you!

But seriously, the only thing that Lanier lacked was lateral quickness and Boggie was never quick himself. Otherwise, Lanier was extremely fluid, he had decent handles and very good footwork. I see them as very similar from athletic standpoint.

Cousins is much more a ballerina with is foot work. He's a 7 foot point guard in his head...which trust me watching him at kentucky that got frustrating lol.

Lanier is by no means a flat footed big or lacking coordination, but he's just not the same as the shaq boogie ballerina like movement. There's just a grace to how some guys move...

Well, it's all subjective so there is no point to argue further. Grace is not ability, it's personal feel durnig watching something. I find Lanier just as graceful as Cousins.

[kinste]

Giannis is the closest to Shaq

I think he's his own different kind of player and certainly a lot more skilled with the ball. Shaq was just pure size and athleticism as much as anything. It just surprises me in 25 years we haven't seen someone you could at least call a poor mans Shaq that was 7 foot 280+ like. Heck shaq was more 325 with the lakers and still athletic.

I think Shaq is getting reduced too much for only athleticism and size. He was very skilled!!

[SmashMouthRod]

A player like him probably wouldnt be as coveted in todays game considering the brute force he played with. His dominance isnt probably viewed the way it should because he didnt always maintain his conditioning; didnt improve his game (mainly his free throw shooting) which probably factored into why he didnt completely dominate an era. Anytime you have teams signing guys who are scrubs just to use their six fouls on a guy; it means they have very little hope of stopping him. He probably would have about 4 additional championships if he made free throws.

A lot of his aggressive post ups would probably be called as offensive fouls or even techs in todays game. In this era teams would game plan to flop at the slightest bump from him in the paint; or sag on him from 12 ft or deeper probably making it significantly harder for him to have the same impact. He had absolutely no range on his jumper which seems to be a must for 1-5 at this point. He did create a lot of spacing with how dominant he was in the paint. Dwight Howard in Orlando similarly was able to create spacing on the floor like Shaq; with defenses focused on loading up to deny easy dunks/layups off isos or alley oops. Obviously Dwight was more iso face up finesse with a hint of power; while Shaq was a bowling ball post player with a hint of finesse.

I already disagree with just about everything you said, but the bolded part specifically I don't understand. Have you completely missed the insane (justified, but still) hype around Zion or something?

You stated that as if Zion is a similar player. They aren't even close to the same player. Shaquille O'Neal was all post up, back to the basket, bowling ball, bully into turnaround short floaters, hook shots or jams in the face of his opponent drawing contact every play. Zion is a more iso face up finesse, spot up shooter that can finish with power. Zion finishes more off rebound put backs, alley-oops or in space on fast breaks. He's probably more comparable to Charles Barkley than Shaq. Teams dont even draft "back to the basket" players anymore to run their offense through. Hell most of the veteran centers in the league now have underdeveloped foot work and post games because those skills aren't appreciated. Everyone wants the big that can space. Jahlil Okafor would start at center somewhere if guys with great footwork and postgames still held the same value.

[kuclas]

We don’t know how dominant in today’s switch heavy wings With length pseudo double teaming to help out on Shaq. How would he do? Probably still a beast. But he would be at a more disadvantage having to handle the ball in low post with the defensive wings cheating in.

lakers would still have enough spacing with outside shooting for Shaq to be unstoppable. Kobe, Robert Horry and fisher/fox on the perimeter.

So Lakers championship teams were well balanced even for this modern era.

The modern centers can’t dominate like Shaq. Closest is Embiid and he hasn’t got a clue how to find the open man when doubled 70% of the time. Or maybe embiid doesn’t had the right fit around him. I do think Shaq would have a huge problem Ben Simmons were his point guard and Horace grant was at the 4 slot.

But Shaq just special. He was probably robbed of 3 nba mvps. For him to have just one is a crime.

The switch heavy wings would be utterly annihilated. Shaq was one of the few post players of his era that got the full mob treatment in there even before it became standard tactics, and he was just an earth mover at a time when he might easily be having to move 2 260lb bodies in there. He was much more saavy and mobile than people gave him credit for when making the catch, and when he went, all you could do as a defender was ride the wave and maybe try to make a last second play on the ball. Or flop like Vlade.

The real problem for Shaq would be on the other end with the extreme pick and roll spam/ constant switching and 3pt bombing. Shaq could put up more of a fight than could a Muresan character, but he would still be attacked relentlessly unless you protected him with a zone scheme that let him just lurk in the paint.

I don’t think Shaq would be a defensive liability. He will just pick and choose The centers who want to shoot the 3 ball. If he wants to close out on a brook Lopez hanging out 25 feet from the rim. Cause he would do so much damage to Lopez if Lopez were to guard him. Lopez would be in foul trouble within 5 minutes guarding him.

So Atlanta with a John Collins? Trey Young/John Collins pick n roll. That’s great. Shaq will get abused on pick and roll. So what. He’s gonna to foul John Collins out of the game by the mid 2nd quarter. Than who does trey young run the pick and roll with than?

[Mazter]

Wasn't Eddy Curry like that guy? Another one coming to mind is Jahlil Okafor.

Well, since the change of the 10-seconds, zone and hand checking rules and implementation of all kinds of analytical data I don't even know if Shaq would be the same Shaq today.

[Greyhound]

It would have been interesting to see Boban play in Shaq's era.

Against Shaq?

BBQ chicken like a Ric Smits, Big Country or Greg Ostertag.

Like those guys, he would have some good defensive moments (due to his size), but once all is said and done, BBQ chicken.

[12footrim]

Wasn't Eddy Curry like that guy? Another one coming to mind is Jahlil Okafor.

Well, since the change of the 10-seconds, zone and hand checking rules and implementation of all kinds of analytical data I don't even know if Shaq would be the same Shaq today.

I actually think if Shaq played today he would be forced to stay in better shape and look more like Rookie Shaq. I think he would still be dominate, but more as a rim runner like DeAndre Jordan or JaVale on steroids. Most coaches would now days limited his post ups simply because they are much poorer shots in the aggregate. He wouldn't have averaged 30 but he might have turned that focus on rebounds and defense which I think he could have a lot more dominate at than he showed in his career.

[12footrim]

Giannis is the closest to Shaq

I think he's his own different kind of player and certainly a lot more skilled with the ball. Shaq was just pure size and athleticism as much as anything. It just surprises me in 25 years we haven't seen someone you could at least call a poor mans Shaq that was 7 foot 280+ like. Heck shaq was more 325 with the lakers and still athletic.

WHAT?! You haven't seen Shaq's post moves then have you.

I'm 40 I watched Shaq since LSU. Most of his post moves consisted of bullying a guy 100lbs lighter and dunking it. Which is great but lets not pretend he was skyhooking shots. His game was mostly derived from being a physical beast, so much so that teams just beat up on him trying to stop him with fouls and put him on the line where he was terrible.

[70sFan]

I think he's his own different kind of player and certainly a lot more skilled with the ball. Shaq was just pure size and athleticism as much as anything. It just surprises me in 25 years we haven't seen someone you could at least call a poor mans Shaq that was 7 foot 280+ like. Heck shaq was more 325 with the lakers and still athletic.

WHAT?! You haven't seen Shaq's post moves then have you.

I'm 40 I watched Shaq since LSU. Most of his post moves consisted of bullying a guy 100lbs lighter and dunking it. Which is great but lets not pretend he was skyhooking shots. His game was mostly derived from being a physical beast, so much so that teams just beat up on him trying to stop him with fouls and put him on the line where he was terrible.

No, Shaq had variety of post moves. If you think that he was one dimensional, then we just have to doubt your knowledge about Shaq.

[RoyceDa59]

In terms of domination in the paint with pure brute size and strength, Zion is the closest thing we've seen to Shaq.

[frica]

We'll never seen players like Shaq and Iverson. They were freaks of nature.

Iverson doesn't belong in this. We've seen many NBA guys with his size/athleticism, not to mention there are 100+ similarly-sized guys with similar athleticism in the NFL at any given time.

Obviously he was hugely athletic, but "freak of nature"? Nah.

Iverson's lack of thickness (160 lbs) wet was quite strange for an NBA player under 6 feet.
Most short NBA players are either build like tanks (IT or Robinson) or at least to some degree built.
Iverson was a skinny twink in comparison.

[12footrim]

WHAT?! You haven't seen Shaq's post moves then have you.

I'm 40 I watched Shaq since LSU. Most of his post moves consisted of bullying a guy 100lbs lighter and dunking it. Which is great but lets not pretend he was skyhooking shots. His game was mostly derived from being a physical beast, so much so that teams just beat up on him trying to stop him with fouls and put him on the line where he was terrible.

No, Shaq had variety of post moves. If you think that he was one dimensional, then we just have to doubt your knowledge about Shaq.

You guys are crazy if you don't acknowledge most of his success was purely from his size strength and athletic ability. It's obvious and even his post "moves" usually derived from putting his big ass into someone or some form of leaning/ elbowing them out of the way first because he had them by 80 or 100lbs or simply jumping higher. There was nothing finesse or shooting about most of his game. He couldn't make a jump shot or anyshot more than 5 feet way. Being bigger and overpowering or jumping higher than them isn't skill.

[dhsilv2]

I'm 40 I watched Shaq since LSU. Most of his post moves consisted of bullying a guy 100lbs lighter and dunking it. Which is great but lets not pretend he was skyhooking shots. His game was mostly derived from being a physical beast, so much so that teams just beat up on him trying to stop him with fouls and put him on the line where he was terrible.

No, Shaq had variety of post moves. If you think that he was one dimensional, then we just have to doubt your knowledge about Shaq.

You guys are crazy if you don't acknowledge most of his success was purely from his size strength and athletic ability. It's obvious and even his post "moves" usually derived from putting his big ass into someone or some form of leaning/ elbowing them out of the way first because he had them by 80 or 100lbs or simply jumping higher. There was nothing finesse or shooting about most of his game. He couldn't make a jump shot or anyshot more than 5 feet way. Being bigger and overpowering or jumping higher than them isn't skill.

I guess if you consider his foot work and soft hands as part of his athleticism then ok...

The guy's agility, mobility, and touch around the rim were all exceptional.

[Sublime187]

Yea well Shaq is top 5 in best athletes to ever play in the NBA and he was a centre. Those do not grow on trees...