ATL: Playoffs
Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25, humanrefutation
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- MickeyDavis
- Global Mod
- Posts: 92,659
- And1: 45,226
- Joined: May 02, 2002
- Location: The Craps Table
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
Manfred is handling all this just the way his mentor Selig would. Horribly.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Re: ATL: Offseason
- ReasonablySober
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 98,439
- And1: 34,958
- Joined: Dec 02, 2001
- Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
- Contact:
Re: ATL: Offseason
ReasonablySober wrote:I don't know why this isn't the biggest story in sports right now. This literally could have influenced a World Series win.
Said this back in mid-November. I'm glad it ended up getting the attention it deserved.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,584
- And1: 6,750
- Joined: Feb 15, 2012
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
Juice to give yourself a competitive advantage: Suspensions, fines
Institute organization-wide cheating that players are complicit in giving them a competitive advantage:
Institute organization-wide cheating that players are complicit in giving them a competitive advantage:
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- Kerb Hohl
- RealGM
- Posts: 34,544
- And1: 4,168
- Joined: Jun 17, 2005
- Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.
Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.
As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.
Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.
As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- dinderdan
- Junior
- Posts: 388
- And1: 29
- Joined: Jun 23, 2011
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
All the Astro's fans be like "What about the Patri-cheats and the Rex Sox and all the other teams stealing signs???"
Personally I don't think it even matters, because the Astros were so egregious and arrogant about the whole thing. You can go on Youtube on and look at games from 2017 and the trash can banging is so obvious and undeniable. They were using some sort of algorithm to quickly decode the signs, plus there is no proof that they stopped doing so, and common sense says they went on to better, more inconspicuous methods before they were busted.
Personally I don't think it even matters, because the Astros were so egregious and arrogant about the whole thing. You can go on Youtube on and look at games from 2017 and the trash can banging is so obvious and undeniable. They were using some sort of algorithm to quickly decode the signs, plus there is no proof that they stopped doing so, and common sense says they went on to better, more inconspicuous methods before they were busted.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- MickeyDavis
- Global Mod
- Posts: 92,659
- And1: 45,226
- Joined: May 02, 2002
- Location: The Craps Table
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
Kerb Hohl wrote:I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.
Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.
As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.
Manfred should have forced the union's hand. Suspend the cheaters. A majority of the players would have been in favor of suspensions
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- Kerb Hohl
- RealGM
- Posts: 34,544
- And1: 4,168
- Joined: Jun 17, 2005
- Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
I agree with you guys but I also fear there are more teams doing something at least somewhat close to the Astros than we think. And I’m not defending Manfred too much, he sounds like an idiot up there...but that’s the practical side of things of what he was up against. Not as easy to do the right thing as we want it to be.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- ReasonablySober
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 98,439
- And1: 34,958
- Joined: Dec 02, 2001
- Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
- Contact:
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
MickeyDavis wrote:Kerb Hohl wrote:I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.
Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.
As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.
Manfred should have forced the union's hand. Suspend the cheaters. A majority of the players would have been in favor of suspensions
It apparently would have violated federal labor laws if Manfred had even attempted to suspend the players.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- humanrefutation
- Forum Mod
- Posts: 30,423
- And1: 13,939
- Joined: Jun 05, 2006
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
ReasonablySober wrote:MickeyDavis wrote:Kerb Hohl wrote:I don't know if it's just damage control but Manfred basically said he had no power to discipline the players. There was no rule technically on the books with the players and the union basically blocked all of their players from talking to the commissioner's office until they were all granted full immunity.
Of course, maybe he could've suspended these guys against the will of the union and the CBA and probably ended up in court just like Goodell when he went over the top with Brady, Ray Rice, etc.
As we all know, Roger Goodell is the most revered commissioner that is lauded for how he handles controversies.
Manfred should have forced the union's hand. Suspend the cheaters. A majority of the players would have been in favor of suspensions
It apparently would have violated federal labor laws if Manfred had even attempted to suspend the players.
You have to go through the terms outlined in the CBA, and the CBA does have a catch-all for discipline for "conduct detrimental or prejudicial for baseball." You can see the discipline code starting on page 51.
https://www.dol.gov/OLMS/regs/compliance/cba/2019/private/30MajorClubs_K9831_060122.pdf
I think the issue here is that Manfred could not offer immunity to the players for cooperating only to renege on that afterwards. That would almost certainly violate federal law.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- MickeyDavis
- Global Mod
- Posts: 92,659
- And1: 45,226
- Joined: May 02, 2002
- Location: The Craps Table
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
Already had Fiers talking. Could have offered immunity to one or two others, suspend the hell out of the others. He would have had plenty of takers.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- Kerb Hohl
- RealGM
- Posts: 34,544
- And1: 4,168
- Joined: Jun 17, 2005
- Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
MickeyDavis wrote:Already had Fiers talking. Could have offered immunity to one or two others, suspend the hell out of the others. He would have had plenty of takers.
I know Trout and Bellinger spoke up and that there are obviously going to be guys pissed off that Marwin Gonzalez might've taken $5 million extra that could've gone to them or something. That's there.
But this is still a player's union. I fully understand how pissed off some of those guys are, but what if once suspended, Bregman called out some players on the Rays or Dodgers for something. And then the other likely cheating going on got called out. Now a **** of players are suspended and it does not do much good for the "clean" players.
There's kind of a fine line that the players have to dance with this and the steroid scandal where some guys that are clean can be pissed off but also don't want to damage the popularity of the game further or the position of the players in contract negotiations, etc.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- humanrefutation
- Forum Mod
- Posts: 30,423
- And1: 13,939
- Joined: Jun 05, 2006
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
MickeyDavis wrote:Already had Fiers talking. Could have offered immunity to one or two others, suspend the hell out of the others. He would have had plenty of takers.
Thing is, you have to go through the union in order to make that offer - and Manfred allegedly did so - but a union will never agree to protect a handful of members at the expense of everyone else. It effectively undercuts the very notion of a "union."
The only way around that would have been for Manfred to interview those guys without guaranteeing immunity. Obviously no current Astros player would snitch. Most former teammates wouldn't either if they knew they could be suspended.
You probably would have had takers from a variety of non-Astros, but those other guys could only offer "hearsay" evidence - "I heard from so-and-so" - or speculation based on what they believe they've seen or heard.
Ultimately, if Manfred wanted to suspend them, he would have had to do it with limited evidence and then be prepared to defend his actions in court.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- ReasonablySober
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 98,439
- And1: 34,958
- Joined: Dec 02, 2001
- Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
- Contact:
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
I dislike MadBum but Mason Saunders is righteous as hell.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- Kerb Hohl
- RealGM
- Posts: 34,544
- And1: 4,168
- Joined: Jun 17, 2005
- Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
Sale is going to Dr. James Andrews.
They traded Mookie at the right time.
They traded Mookie at the right time.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- Kerb Hohl
- RealGM
- Posts: 34,544
- And1: 4,168
- Joined: Jun 17, 2005
- Location: Hmmmm...how many 1sts would Jason Richardson cost...?
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
Kerb Hohl wrote:Sale is going to Dr. James Andrews.
They traded Mookie at the right time.
Officially getting TJ.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- ReasonablySober
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 98,439
- And1: 34,958
- Joined: Dec 02, 2001
- Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
- Contact:
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
Thor is getting TJ too. Ouch.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 23,860
- And1: 19,660
- Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
This made me laugh, some bonds stats are just ridiculous.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
- MickeyDavis
- Global Mod
- Posts: 92,659
- And1: 45,226
- Joined: May 02, 2002
- Location: The Craps Table
Re: ATL: Offseason - Ron Roenicke is BACK!
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Re: ATL: 5 Round Draft - Page 23
- MickeyDavis
- Global Mod
- Posts: 92,659
- And1: 45,226
- Joined: May 02, 2002
- Location: The Craps Table
Re: ATL: 5 Round Draft - Page 23
Major League Baseball owners gave the go-ahead Monday to making a proposal to the players’ union that could lead to the coronavirus-delayed season starting around the Fourth of July weekend in ballparks without fans, a plan that envisioned expanding the designated hitter to the National League for 2020.
Spring training would start in early to mid-June, a person familiar with the decision told The Associated Press. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because details of the plan were not announced.
Each team would play about 82 regular-season games, most against opponents in its own division with interleague matchups limited to AL East vs. NL East, AL Central vs. NL Central and AL West vs. NL West.
Postseason play would be expanded from 10 clubs to 14 by doubling wild cards in each league to four.
Teams would prefer to play at their regular-season ballparks but would switch to spring training stadiums or neutral sites if medical and government approvals can’t be obtained for games at home. Toronto might have to play home games in Dunedin, Florida.
The All-Star Game, scheduled for Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles on July 14, likely would be called off.
Teams will propose that players receive a percentage of their 2020 salaries based on revenues MLB receives during the regular-season and postseason, which likely will be among the most contentious aspects of the proposal during negotiations with the players’ association.
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Re: ATL: Owners Propose 82 Game Season Starting Early July - Page 23
-
- RealGM
- Posts: 23,860
- And1: 19,660
- Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Re: ATL: Owners Propose 82 Game Season Starting Early July - Page 23
Maybe it's just early posturing but kind of feels like the owners and union are going to struggle to find middle ground and we'll simply lose this season.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.