minimus wrote:
well then the nba regular season is over....
Moderators: Domejandro, Worm Guts, Calinks
minimus wrote:
Neeva wrote:Well maybe so but nba fans care and it would be nice to have something positive in the league to forget about the problems going on.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Klomp wrote:I can't get James Wiseman out of my mind. I think people have been too critical of him, like comparing him to say Hassan Whiteside. If all you look at is that he's a 7-footer, sure. If you think there's no potential for growth, sure. He could come into the league and play like Whiteside from Day 1.
But when I watch him, I see more. I see movement skills, passing ability and 3-point potential that put him on a different development trajectory than Whiteside. I'm not going to put him on the same path as Garnett or Antetokounmpo, but I think he could be a longer Jaren Jackson Jr. I do think he could potentially play two positions in the NBA, even if he ultimately plays a majority of his minutes at just one.
A lot of draftniks love them some Onyeka Okongwu. And while I think he can have a nice NBA career, I personally believe it'd be foolish to draft Okongwu over Wiseman. As good as his defense is, I believe his offense is just as rough. And I don't see the same tools for offensive growth as I do for Wiseman. I think everyone is looking at him and hoping he could develop into Bam Adebayo, but I think it's just as likely his development stops at Bismack Biyombo or Gorgui Dieng.
Okongwu isn't the type of player I'd want to draft in the Top 5. Wiseman isn't the type of player I'd want to pass on.
TheZachAttack wrote:Klomp wrote:I can't get James Wiseman out of my mind. I think people have been too critical of him, like comparing him to say Hassan Whiteside. If all you look at is that he's a 7-footer, sure. If you think there's no potential for growth, sure. He could come into the league and play like Whiteside from Day 1.
But when I watch him, I see more. I see movement skills, passing ability and 3-point potential that put him on a different development trajectory than Whiteside. I'm not going to put him on the same path as Garnett or Antetokounmpo, but I think he could be a longer Jaren Jackson Jr. I do think he could potentially play two positions in the NBA, even if he ultimately plays a majority of his minutes at just one.
A lot of draftniks love them some Onyeka Okongwu. And while I think he can have a nice NBA career, I personally believe it'd be foolish to draft Okongwu over Wiseman. As good as his defense is, I believe his offense is just as rough. And I don't see the same tools for offensive growth as I do for Wiseman. I think everyone is looking at him and hoping he could develop into Bam Adebayo, but I think it's just as likely his development stops at Bismack Biyombo or Gorgui Dieng.
Okongwu isn't the type of player I'd want to draft in the Top 5. Wiseman isn't the type of player I'd want to pass on.
I feel the same way about Wiseman, I actually think he’s the one legit prospect—but in terms of fit he’s also the furthest from a fit the Wolves at least on the surface.
IF, he’s really mobile defensively and can be a game changer on that end... I think it’s an interesting idea to move Towns to the 4 and allow him to not anchor a defense.... but it would be a little bit of a switch in mentality for this roster.
TheZachAttack wrote:Klomp wrote:I can't get James Wiseman out of my mind. I think people have been too critical of him, like comparing him to say Hassan Whiteside. If all you look at is that he's a 7-footer, sure. If you think there's no potential for growth, sure. He could come into the league and play like Whiteside from Day 1.
But when I watch him, I see more. I see movement skills, passing ability and 3-point potential that put him on a different development trajectory than Whiteside. I'm not going to put him on the same path as Garnett or Antetokounmpo, but I think he could be a longer Jaren Jackson Jr. I do think he could potentially play two positions in the NBA, even if he ultimately plays a majority of his minutes at just one.
A lot of draftniks love them some Onyeka Okongwu. And while I think he can have a nice NBA career, I personally believe it'd be foolish to draft Okongwu over Wiseman. As good as his defense is, I believe his offense is just as rough. And I don't see the same tools for offensive growth as I do for Wiseman. I think everyone is looking at him and hoping he could develop into Bam Adebayo, but I think it's just as likely his development stops at Bismack Biyombo or Gorgui Dieng.
Okongwu isn't the type of player I'd want to draft in the Top 5. Wiseman isn't the type of player I'd want to pass on.
I feel the same way about Wiseman, I actually think he’s the one legit prospect—but in terms of fit he’s also the furthest from a fit the Wolves at least on the surface.
IF, he’s really mobile defensively and can be a game changer on that end... I think it’s an interesting idea to move Towns to the 4 and allow him to not anchor a defense.... but it would be a little bit of a switch in mentality for this roster.
KGdaBom wrote:wolfen wrote:For the corona-trapped hoops fans out there, if you have the time, and I know you do, there's always:
https://nbareplayhd.com/category/ncaa/
You can watch pretty much any ncaa game from this past year to check out your favorite prospects.
I've come to the conclusion (which means I'm probably dead wrong that Isaac Okoro is someone who should not be considered a lottery pick. If he's there with our nets pick then fine, take him. The hype on him is his great defense, switchable 1-5. I think that is simply a guess from media types. When you watch complete games of his, you would expect to see shut down defense over and over with the amount of hype he gets. Steals, blocks, staying in front of quick guys, bodying up bigs, etc. etc. What I see is a solid defender but nothing transcending at all really. In watching the Feb 12 game vs. bama, watch him play defense against Kira Lewis at times. Kira leaves him in the dust on more than one occasion. I would say that Okogie is a better on ball defender than Okoro is against quick guys. You want to see a strong wing guard a quick PG then go back and watch Nova play Seton Hall and see how Bey hounds Myles Powell. Impressive. In fact, if I had the choice and both Bey and Okoro are on the board I take Bey every time. If you take Okoro, he BETTER be all world defensively, because he has serious limitations on the offensive side of ball, where he is much like Okogie IMO.
Bey will be a much better shooter, scorer, ball handler, and passer, than Okoro, plus he's legit SF / PF size as compared to Okoro's SG / SF size.
Watching that game for Okoro reminded me how much I love Kira Lewis. Dude will be a really good pro, either a top notch backup PG or possibly something more with that speed.
Going to watch Vandy vs. Auburn to check out Nesmith & Saben Lee to see how they look against Auburn and Okoro.
Cheers!
Tankathon has us drafting Kira Lewis with our pick in the second round every time.
Jedzz wrote:TheZachAttack wrote:Klomp wrote:I can't get James Wiseman out of my mind. I think people have been too critical of him, like comparing him to say Hassan Whiteside. If all you look at is that he's a 7-footer, sure. If you think there's no potential for growth, sure. He could come into the league and play like Whiteside from Day 1.
But when I watch him, I see more. I see movement skills, passing ability and 3-point potential that put him on a different development trajectory than Whiteside. I'm not going to put him on the same path as Garnett or Antetokounmpo, but I think he could be a longer Jaren Jackson Jr. I do think he could potentially play two positions in the NBA, even if he ultimately plays a majority of his minutes at just one.
A lot of draftniks love them some Onyeka Okongwu. And while I think he can have a nice NBA career, I personally believe it'd be foolish to draft Okongwu over Wiseman. As good as his defense is, I believe his offense is just as rough. And I don't see the same tools for offensive growth as I do for Wiseman. I think everyone is looking at him and hoping he could develop into Bam Adebayo, but I think it's just as likely his development stops at Bismack Biyombo or Gorgui Dieng.
Okongwu isn't the type of player I'd want to draft in the Top 5. Wiseman isn't the type of player I'd want to pass on.
I feel the same way about Wiseman, I actually think he’s the one legit prospect—but in terms of fit he’s also the furthest from a fit the Wolves at least on the surface.
IF, he’s really mobile defensively and can be a game changer on that end... I think it’s an interesting idea to move Towns to the 4 and allow him to not anchor a defense.... but it would be a little bit of a switch in mentality for this roster.
I agree Zach. All the examples from this season show a pure disdain for using a player like he might well start out as, and even if he progressed to a wider role he still wouldn't fit the mentality and system of what they showed this season. It surprises me how much Klomp is focusing on the player in this instance when he so fully followed the "system building" excuses for all they have done since Rosas took over. To switch from that stance now, there would have to be pure confidence in the new player to come and confidence in an ability to move Towns to 4, or even allowing a 7 footer a different role...These are hard to believe after watching them avoid it this season so profoundly.
Jedzz wrote:I agree Zach. All the examples from this season show a pure disdain for using a player like he might well start out as, and even if he progressed to a wider role he still wouldn't fit the mentality and system of what they showed this season. It surprises me how much Klomp is focusing on the player in this instance when he so fully followed the "system building" excuses for all they have done since Rosas took over. To switch from that stance now, there would have to be pure confidence in the new player to come and confidence in an ability to move Towns to 4, or even allowing a 7 footer a different role...These are hard to believe after watching them avoid it this season so profoundly.
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Klomp wrote:Jedzz wrote:I agree Zach. All the examples from this season show a pure disdain for using a player like he might well start out as, and even if he progressed to a wider role he still wouldn't fit the mentality and system of what they showed this season. It surprises me how much Klomp is focusing on the player in this instance when he so fully followed the "system building" excuses for all they have done since Rosas took over. To switch from that stance now, there would have to be pure confidence in the new player to come and confidence in an ability to move Towns to 4, or even allowing a 7 footer a different role...These are hard to believe after watching them avoid it this season so profoundly.
For the first half of the season, shrink and others were pounding down our throats the belief that Rosas would absolutely never trade for someone like D'Angelo Russell. What happened with that? The reality is, the only people that truly understand the full intricacies of what the franchise wants to build are Gersson Rosas, Ryan Saunders and the rest of the front office and coaching staff. We can place our guesses based on what we feel the system is, but we don't know for certain.
Much of my optimism on Wiseman is based around the fact that I don't view him as a traditional center. I think he's got the potential to be more than that. I think he offers versatility on the court that Gorgui Dieng never could. He offers a size mismatch that Naz Reid could not. He offers a defensive ability that Karl-Anthony Towns hasn't shown. The fact that you think the system or my interpretation of it is so limited to the fact that a 7-footer can only play center is flat-out insulting (par for the course, based on our previous exchanges).
I've never been so stuck on a prospect that I cannot entertain the possibility of the team liking another prospect more. I've never let liking a prospect stop me from liking another prospect. That's not my style. If you choose to follow the NBA draft and the league in general in that way, that's your prerogative. It's not mine. And I'm fairly certain that's not how NBA teams view scouting either.
Jedzz wrote:You are getting highly defensive here and that is your right since I discussed your point of view and quoted you. However you are striking out in maybe 4 different directions there with this post. You've been on about Wiserman since January repeatedly. You haven't been suggesting other names.
Klomp wrote:I don't really want to draft another player in this same mold, but I just have a gut feeling that Isaac Okoro is going to be that guy 5-10 years from now who has developed into a star and teams are going to be kicking themselves for passing on him.
Klomp wrote:He's got the movement skills to where he could play the PF here on both sides of the court in our system. He's a junior, but young for his class at 20 years old. Only three months older than freshman Precious Achiuwa and 15 months younger than junior Obi Toppin.
Currently 16th on Tankathon
tsherkin wrote:The important thing to take away here is that Klomp is wrong.
Esohny wrote:Why are you asking Klomp? "He's" actually a bot that posts random blurbs from a database.
Klomp wrote:I'm putting the tired in retired mod at the moment
Klomp wrote:Since January, I've also brought up Toppin, Pokusevski, Vassell, Nwora, Achiuwa, Okongwu, Avdija, Maxey, Hampton, McDaniels in this thread.
I brought up Wiseman maybe once or twice before the past two weeks.
See this I believe is true, it was nearing that timeline and was in that context that you began with this. Let me say again, it only surprised me. It's not a knock on you. I actually applaud you making a suggestion for the team about something you could see working, instead of so often being the guy that tells us the facts of life with this team which thwarts all suggestions and excuses all decisions. Which is where I find myself in this instance. Where you now suggest he can exist with Towns in a starting lineup. This is where I see the actions this season making that difficult. I do not disagree that it could work to have Towns with another big, someone taller than him. But the stubbornness of the team on this point is in question.At the time, it was before the deadline and in the framework of possibly moving on from Towns. It wasn't until I studied him a little further and started to see some of the things he could provide that I started to believe he and Towns could coexist.
Klomp wrote:Much of my optimism on Wiseman is based around the fact that I don't view him as a traditional center. I think he's got the potential to be more than that. I think he offers versatility on the court that Gorgui Dieng never could. He offers a size mismatch that Naz Reid could not. He offers a defensive ability that Karl-Anthony Towns hasn't shown. The fact that you think the system or my interpretation of it is so limited to the fact that a 7-footer can only play center is flat-out insulting (par for the course, based on our previous exchanges)
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