Shams: The season is suspended / Coronavirus Thread

[BadMofoPimp]

C'mon, too vague, and its low hanging fruit anyway. I wanted to know what you believe, not what/who you are against. That bill is being constructed to help states and local hospitals btw. Its politics to go back and forth to find common ground. The Republicans just wanted trickle down money going to corporations with no oversight. So, we can do this all day long. I'm interested to hear what you think is far left.

That is why both sides need to work together to come to a common ground instead of just extreme left or right.

True, but I think your perception is still off. You need to look at governments with an extreme leftist point of view to understand the difference. The tent on the left in this country is bigger and broader than your narrow description. Don't take the shortcut dude.

as Obama said best about the current progressives:

One of the things I do worry about sometimes among progressives in the United States — maybe it’s true here as well — is a certain kind of rigidity where we say, ‘Uh, I’m sorry, this is how it’s going to be,’ and then we start sometimes creating what’s called a ‘circular firing squad,’ where you start shooting at your allies because one of them has strayed from purity on the issues. And when that happens, typically the overall effort and movement weakens.

[spinedoc]

That is why both sides need to work together to come to a common ground instead of just extreme left or right.

True, but I think your perception is still off. You need to look at governments with an extreme leftist point of view to understand the difference. The tent on the left in this country is bigger and broader than your narrow description. Don't take the shortcut dude.

as Obama said best about the current progressives:

One of the things I do worry about sometimes among progressives in the United States — maybe it’s true here as well — is a certain kind of rigidity where we say, ‘Uh, I’m sorry, this is how it’s going to be,’ and then we start sometimes creating what’s called a ‘circular firing squad,’ where you start shooting at your allies because one of them has strayed from purity on the issues. And when that happens, typically the overall effort and movement weakens.

I don't disagree, but that is a comment about the progressives in the party, not the party itself. Bernie just dropped out, but wants to stay in to collect delegates. That's so he has a platform at the convention, because he wants to pull Biden more to the left. Those two see a difference in their agendas, so does Obama, and you must as well otherwise you wouldn't have quoted Obama. Quit taking the shortcut and do the work, lol.

[sChOlaRlY_Magi]

Somedays, Joe Doesn't even remember what day it is. Should be a landslide for Donald unless he continues to mess this up.

This, unfortunately I agree with... The Democratic party is feckless because they are just as bought by Corporations as the GOP. At least the older order. They all have stocks in Medical and all that other ish.

So Joe's motto is status quo... Unfortunately

I am against both sides but usually go lesser of the two evils. And, currently, extremist left winger Socialists are the root of all evil!

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

[Def Swami]

This, unfortunately I agree with... The Democratic party is feckless because they are just as bought by Corporations as the GOP. At least the older order. They all have stocks in Medical and all that other ish.

So Joe's motto is status quo... Unfortunately

I am against both sides but usually go lesser of the two evils. And, currently, extremist left winger Socialists are the root of all evil!

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

I wonder if this virus will finally show the broad public how absurd it is to have access to health care tied to people's employment.

As unemployment and hospitalizations both rise due to COVID19, the first thing any human would hope for is that there is a way to protect themselves and family, get tested, and treated without going bankrupt.

I believe a lot of the inequities in our healthcare system are actively being exposed during this pandemic. There has been data released about how minorities are seeing poorer outcomes with regard to COVID19 infection. Part of that is probably related to higher uninsurance rates, and higher number of comorbidities.

I'm not even advocating for M4A kind of strategy, but I do think the current system is wildly profit-driven, as opposed to being one that's effective for people in their most vulnerable moments.

[Gomagic44]

I agree with you but I think you stop short. This outbreak shows that m4a is necessary. The amount of bankruptsies that will come from us not having that during this will be quiet large. People in Europe and Canada can't even fathom going broke over a car wreck, let alone a pandemic. Profit doesn't belong in healthcare delivery imo. They make money by denying you care. They don't innovate. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year paid to them by our paychecks to blast mind numbing propoganda in commercials to us. United, blue cross, Cigna. They are all crap. They suck value from the economy while producing nothing of value to their customers.

I am against both sides but usually go lesser of the two evils. And, currently, extremist left winger Socialists are the root of all evil!

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

I wonder if this virus will finally show the broad public how absurd it is to have access to health care tied to people's employment.

As unemployment and hospitalizations both rise due to COVID19, the first thing any human would hope for is that there is a way to protect themselves and family, get tested, and treated without going bankrupt.

I believe a lot of the inequities in our healthcare system are actively being exposed during this pandemic. There has been data released about how minorities are seeing poorer outcomes with regard to COVID19 infection. Part of that is probably related to higher uninsurance rates, and higher number of comorbidities.

I'm not even advocating for M4A kind of strategy, but I do think the current system is wildly profit-driven, as opposed to being one that's effective for people in their most vulnerable moments.

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

[spinedoc]

I agree with you but I think you stop short. This outbreak shows that m4a is necessary. The amount of bankruptsies that will come from us not having that during this will be quiet large. People in Europe and Canada can't even fathom going broke over a car wreck, let alone a pandemic. Profit doesn't belong in healthcare delivery imo. They make money by denying you care. They don't innovate. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year paid to them by our paychecks to blast mind numbing propoganda in commercials to us. United, blue cross, Cigna. They are all crap. They suck value from the economy while producing nothing of value to their customers.

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

I wonder if this virus will finally show the broad public how absurd it is to have access to health care tied to people's employment.

As unemployment and hospitalizations both rise due to COVID19, the first thing any human would hope for is that there is a way to protect themselves and family, get tested, and treated without going bankrupt.

I believe a lot of the inequities in our healthcare system are actively being exposed during this pandemic. There has been data released about how minorities are seeing poorer outcomes with regard to COVID19 infection. Part of that is probably related to higher uninsurance rates, and higher number of comorbidities.

I'm not even advocating for M4A kind of strategy, but I do think the current system is wildly profit-driven, as opposed to being one that's effective for people in their most vulnerable moments.

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

Medicare for all sounds good to those that don't have health insurance, but it is so nuts and bolts basic care for some healthcare professionals. It pays fantastic at end of life care, but for me as a Chiropractor I get $38.04 total for a treatment, no pay for an exam, x-rays, or therapy. Keep in mind, my cash fee for an adjustment is $45. Its just as bad for others as well. For those of us who went to school for a very long time and incurred a lot of college debt, you would be putting people out of business. Other things would have to be tied to it like debt forgiveness for college loans and other sweeteners. Or, ramp up the pay schedule to those who don't have a huge lobby in D.C. A lot of doctors don't even take medicare now because of that level of pay. On the flip side, it would ease up responsibility on businesses and free them up more to expand the economy, compete better globally, and that's including giving everyone a substantial raise as well. There needs to be a happy medium where you can get insurance whether employed or not, and make it portable to whatever job or state you go to. I like the affordable healthcare law, it just needs to be ramped up better, and then slowly you can take more burden off of employers.

[thelead]

Until they have a one on one debate where Joe doesn't have a teleprompter telling him what to say, hahahaha.

Not sure Trump can stand up and tell lies about Biden on stage, like he did with Cruz. Biden would go after him. Like if Trump said something about Jill.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Now, that would be hilarious to watch. I can't wait!

This is not an indictment of any of you but I can't believe this is what politics in the best country has come down to...

[nymets1]

Last night's numbers as of 9:30 pm from bing.com/covid

USA- 434,114 confirmed cases(+34,618 increase), Recoveries- 23,774(+1958), Deaths- 14,762(+1916)
New York- 149,316 confirmed cases(+9291 increase), Recoveries- 15,752(+1162)
New Jersey- 47,437 confirmed cases(+3021 increase)
Michigan- 20,346(+1376 increase)
California- 17,674( +1311 increase)
Louisana- 17,030(+746 increase), (Keep an eye on Louisana)
Mass- 16,790 (+490 increase), (keep an eye on Mass)
Penn- 16,239 (+1680 increase)
Florida- 15,698 (+951 increase)
Illinois- 15,078 (+1529 increase)
Georgia- 10,204( +1048 increase)
Texas- 9353 ( +2077 increase)
Washington- 9097 ( +415 increase) ( 7 straight days)
Connecticut- 7781( +875 increase)

Spain- 148,220(+1465 increase), Recoveries- 48,021( +4813 increase)
Italy- 139, 442( +1737 increase), Recoveries- 26, 491 (+ 2099 increase)
Germany- 113,296(+4255 increase), Recoveries- 32,814(+1382 increase)

So bing has made a change to the website now listing the US states in order from highest cases to lowest cases instead of the alphabetical order previously.

1. One of the top things I been following is Spain's recoveries each day so today they had 4813 recoveries. Spain is so good with their increase in recoveries per day.
2. USA increased over 30,000 new confirmed cases today
3. Louisana and Massachussets had a relatively small increase in new confirmed cases. I'll be watching these 2 states tomorrow to see if they can make 2 straight days of keeping their new confirmed cases under 1000 in a day.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ as of 9:30 pm last night

USA- 434,062 confirmed cases, Recovered- 22,580, Deaths- 14, 774
New York- +8787 increase in new confirmed cases
New Jersey- +3021 increase
Michigan- +1376 increase
California- +1370 increase
Louisana- +746 increase
Mass- +1588 increase
Penn- +1294 increase
Florida- +951 increase
Illinois- +1529 increase
Georgia- +1033 increase
Texas- +884 increase
Washington- +660 increase
Connecticut- +1000 increase

Today's number's as of 9 pm from bing.com/covid

USA-468,703 confirmed cases(+32,463 increase), Recoveries- 25,900(+2126 increase), Deaths- 16,679(+1917 increase)
New York- 159,937 confirmed cases(+8977 increase), Recoveries- 16,234(+1644 increase)
New Jersey- 51, 027 confirmed cases(+3590 increase)
Michigan- 21,504 confirmed cases(+1158 increase)
California- 19,691 confirmed cases(+2017 increase)
Mass- 18,941 confirmed cases(+1588 increase)
Louisana- 18,263 confirmed cases(+1253 increase)
Penn- 18,228 confirmed cases(+1989 increase)
Florida- 16,826 confirmed cases(+1128 increase)
Illinois- 16, 422 confirmed cases(+1344 increase)
Georgia- 10,885 confirmed cases(+984 increase)
Texas- 10,230 confirmed cases(+877 increase)
Connecticut- 9784 confirmed cases(+2003 increase)
Washington- 9608 confirmed cases- (+511 increase)

Spain- 153,222 confirmed cases(+858 increase), Recoveries- 52,165(+4144 increase)
Italy- 143,626 confirmed cases(+2225 increase), Recoveries- 28,470(+1979 increase)
Germany- 118, 235 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 40,015(+7201 increase), Active cases- 75,613
France- 112,950 confirmed cases(+30,902 increase), Recoveries- 21,461

1. Spain again with a large increase in recoveries today with 4144 increase
2. I just started to follow France since they past over 100,000 confirmed cases
3. Small state Connecticut is surging in new cases, Almost 10,000 confirmed cases for a very small state

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ as of 9pm

USA-468,887 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 25,928, Deaths- 16,697
New York- +10,333 increase in confirmed cases
New Jersey- +3590 increase in confirmed cases
Michigan- +1158 increase in confirmed cases
California- +1141 increase in confirmed cases
Mass- +2151 increase in confirmed cases
Penn- +1803 increase in confirmed cases
Louisana- +1253 increase in confirmed cases
Florida- +1128 increase in confirmed cases
Illinois- +1344 increase in confirmed cases
Texas- +1361 increase in confirmed cases
Georgia- +681 increase in confirmed cases
Connecticut- +1003 increase in confirmed cases
Washington- +310 increase in confirmed cases

2 different numbers in increase in confirmed cases from Georgia and Washington from bing and worldometers. Georgia and Washington are doing the best in low increase in confirmed cases each day among the top 13 states with the most cases.

[Ducklett]

I agree with you but I think you stop short. This outbreak shows that m4a is necessary. The amount of bankruptsies that will come from us not having that during this will be quiet large. People in Europe and Canada can't even fathom going broke over a car wreck, let alone a pandemic. Profit doesn't belong in healthcare delivery imo. They make money by denying you care. They don't innovate. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year paid to them by our paychecks to blast mind numbing propoganda in commercials to us. United, blue cross, Cigna. They are all crap. They suck value from the economy while producing nothing of value to their customers.

I wonder if this virus will finally show the broad public how absurd it is to have access to health care tied to people's employment.

As unemployment and hospitalizations both rise due to COVID19, the first thing any human would hope for is that there is a way to protect themselves and family, get tested, and treated without going bankrupt.

I believe a lot of the inequities in our healthcare system are actively being exposed during this pandemic. There has been data released about how minorities are seeing poorer outcomes with regard to COVID19 infection. Part of that is probably related to higher uninsurance rates, and higher number of comorbidities.

I'm not even advocating for M4A kind of strategy, but I do think the current system is wildly profit-driven, as opposed to being one that's effective for people in their most vulnerable moments.

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

Medicare for all sounds good to those that don't have health insurance, but it is so nuts and bolts basic care for some healthcare professionals. It pays fantastic at end of life care, but for me as a Chiropractor I get $38.04 total for a treatment, no pay for an exam, x-rays, or therapy. Keep in mind, my cash fee for an adjustment is $45. Its just as bad for others as well. For those of us who went to school for a very long time and incurred a lot of college debt, you would be putting people out of business. Other things would have to be tied to it like debt forgiveness for college loans and other sweeteners. Or, ramp up the pay schedule to those who don't have a huge lobby in D.C. A lot of doctors don't even take medicare now because of that level of pay. On the flip side, it would ease up responsibility on businesses and free them up more to expand the economy, compete better globally, and that's including giving everyone a substantial raise as well. There needs to be a happy medium where you can get insurance whether employed or not, and make it portable to whatever job or state you go to. I like the affordable healthcare law, it just needs to be ramped up better, and then slowly you can take more burden off of employers.

I think you have solid theory on this, but I find it hard to believe that getting insurance sold across state lines is something that would ever happen for a million reasons.

Back on actual topic: I read that NY is now ~15% of the world's cases and 50% (roughly) of the US cases. Wow.

Also, it appears the NIH revised the death numbers from 200k-2M to 60k. That is a pretty huge swing downward. I really hope they are right on this as it means so many less deaths.

[pepe1991]

"Socialistic" meical care is actually pretty normal in the world.
Read about Denmark health care system that is one of the best in the world. Their average life expentansy is one of longest in the world and their "eHealth" system helps a lot (also suicide rate is really low).

[MoMM]

"Socialistic" meical care is actually pretty normal in the world.
Read about Denmark health care system that is one of the best in the world. Their average life expentansy is one of longest in the world and their "eHealth" system helps a lot (also suicide rate is really low).

Exactly, it's not like m4a is something that can't be done. Basically all of the world works kind of this way, US is the exception and it is crazy the way it is. The rest of the world can't understand it.

I am Brazilian, but I am living in Germany now (working as Sofrware Developer), but I was talking the other day (before COVID) with a fellow worker from Tunisia and I explained a little bit about US health system, no vacations, etc... his words at the end were something like "Why the hell someone goes live there?" and just before the conversation he was mentioning that if he leaves Germany, US would be a top option for him.

Obviously there are differences, for example, here in Germany I pay 350 euros per month for "social health system" and my wife 350 as well (we are both employed and the amount is a % of the salary with a maximum of 350), we don't have kids, but this money would cover them as well (no matter how many), and if one of us stop working, 350 would cover all the family anyway. It might seems a little bit unfair, because if you are single you will pay 350 for 1 person, but if you have a family with wife + 2 kids, it would be 350 for 4 persons, but at least the quality of the system is really good.

In Brazil it is totally free, you don't even see in it discounted in your paycheck like it happens in Germany, but the public health system is not very good, so usually people pay for a private one, however the public system is still there and you can use it for expensive treatments if you want to.

[basketballRob]

I agree with you but I think you stop short. This outbreak shows that m4a is necessary. The amount of bankruptsies that will come from us not having that during this will be quiet large. People in Europe and Canada can't even fathom going broke over a car wreck, let alone a pandemic. Profit doesn't belong in healthcare delivery imo. They make money by denying you care. They don't innovate. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year paid to them by our paychecks to blast mind numbing propoganda in commercials to us. United, blue cross, Cigna. They are all crap. They suck value from the economy while producing nothing of value to their customers.

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

Medicare for all sounds good to those that don't have health insurance, but it is so nuts and bolts basic care for some healthcare professionals. It pays fantastic at end of life care, but for me as a Chiropractor I get $38.04 total for a treatment, no pay for an exam, x-rays, or therapy. Keep in mind, my cash fee for an adjustment is $45. Its just as bad for others as well. For those of us who went to school for a very long time and incurred a lot of college debt, you would be putting people out of business. Other things would have to be tied to it like debt forgiveness for college loans and other sweeteners. Or, ramp up the pay schedule to those who don't have a huge lobby in D.C. A lot of doctors don't even take medicare now because of that level of pay. On the flip side, it would ease up responsibility on businesses and free them up more to expand the economy, compete better globally, and that's including giving everyone a substantial raise as well. There needs to be a happy medium where you can get insurance whether employed or not, and make it portable to whatever job or state you go to. I like the affordable healthcare law, it just needs to be ramped up better, and then slowly you can take more burden off of employers.

I think you have solid theory on this, but I find it hard to believe that getting insurance sold across state lines is something that would ever happen for a million reasons.

Back on actual topic: I read that NY is now ~15% of the world's cases and 50% (roughly) of the US cases. Wow.

Also, it appears the NIH revised the death numbers from 200k-2M to 60k. That is a pretty huge swing downward. I really hope they are right on this as it means so many less deaths.

Well i think the 2.2 million was without mitigation until we all get vaccinated. The 60k is for the next 4 months. Some say this will go on for a couple of years.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

"Socialistic" meical care is actually pretty normal in the world.
Read about Denmark health care system that is one of the best in the world. Their average life expentansy is one of longest in the world and their "eHealth" system helps a lot (also suicide rate is really low).

Exactly, it's not like m4a is something that can't be done. Basically all of the world works kind of this way, US is the exception and it is crazy the way it is. The rest of the world can't understand it.

I am Brazilian, but I am living in Germany now (working as Sofrware Developer), but I was talking the other day (before COVID) with a fellow worker from Tunisia and I explained a little bit about US health system, no vacations, etc... his words at the end were something like "Why the hell someone goes live there?" and just before the conversation he was mentioning that if he leaves Germany, US would be a top option for him.

Obviously there are differences, for example, here in Germany I pay 350 euros per month for "social health system" and my wife 350 as well (we are both employed and the amount is a % of the salary with a maximum of 350), we don't have kids, but this money would cover them as well (no matter how many), and if one of us stop working, 350 would cover all the family anyway. It might seems a little bit unfair, because if you are single you will pay 350 for 1 person, but if you have a family with wife + 2 kids, it would be 350 for 4 persons, but at least the quality of the system is really good.

In Brazil it is totally free, you don't even see in it discounted in your paycheck like it happens in Germany, but the public health system is not very good, so usually people pay for a private one, however the public system is still there and you can use it for expensive treatments if you want to.

Germany is, imo, the most developed country overall in the world.
There is good reason why everybody from Europe and across the world ( including imigrants) want to go there.
It's mindblowing that they lost 2 world wars and always returned stronger and better than others

And since we mentioned socialism, their social market economy just elaboration of difference between "social ecnomy and socialistic country"

The "social" segment is often wrongly confused with socialism and democratic socialism and although aspects were inspired by the latter the social market approach rejects the socialist ideas of replacing private property and markets with social ownership and economic planning. The "social" element to the model instead refers to support for the provision of equal opportunity and protection of those unable to enter the free market labor force because of old-age, disability, or unemployment

[nymets1]

I haven't heard anybody mention this. But I do think Genes/ Genetics also plays a role in someone catches the virus in how they do.

It's not just about age, underlying condition or their blood type but Genes/Genetics plays a role.

[Gomagic44]

One of the issues for me President Trump ran on was about this. Unfortunately it was more of a talking point. Germany and western Europe have it so good because after ww2 we took over their security. They don't have to defend their countries. As a result they spend paltry amounts of money on defense and have grown their healthcare/welfare state to a level we can only dream of. But thank God we have all these weapons! They are totally helping us right now lol.

I want some of those benefits! I wanted paid paternity leave! I don't wanna go broke from a car wreck! I don't bring those things up to say why can't they have the same gamble in life as me! But rather why can't we have that level of personal security?!

"Socialistic" meical care is actually pretty normal in the world.
Read about Denmark health care system that is one of the best in the world. Their average life expentansy is one of longest in the world and their "eHealth" system helps a lot (also suicide rate is really low).

Exactly, it's not like m4a is something that can't be done. Basically all of the world works kind of this way, US is the exception and it is crazy the way it is. The rest of the world can't understand it.

I am Brazilian, but I am living in Germany now (working as Sofrware Developer), but I was talking the other day (before COVID) with a fellow worker from Tunisia and I explained a little bit about US health system, no vacations, etc... his words at the end were something like "Why the hell someone goes live there?" and just before the conversation he was mentioning that if he leaves Germany, US would be a top option for him.

Obviously there are differences, for example, here in Germany I pay 350 euros per month for "social health system" and my wife 350 as well (we are both employed and the amount is a % of the salary with a maximum of 350), we don't have kids, but this money would cover them as well (no matter how many), and if one of us stop working, 350 would cover all the family anyway. It might seems a little bit unfair, because if you are single you will pay 350 for 1 person, but if you have a family with wife + 2 kids, it would be 350 for 4 persons, but at least the quality of the system is really good.

In Brazil it is totally free, you don't even see in it discounted in your paycheck like it happens in Germany, but the public health system is not very good, so usually people pay for a private one, however the public system is still there and you can use it for expensive treatments if you want to.

Germany is, imo, the most developed country overall in the world.
There is good reason why everybody from Europe and across the world ( including imigrants) want to go there.
It's mindblowing that they lost 2 world wars and always returned stronger and better than others

And since we mentioned socialism, their social market economy just elaboration of difference between "social ecnomy and socialistic country"

The "social" segment is often wrongly confused with socialism and democratic socialism and although aspects were inspired by the latter the social market approach rejects the socialist ideas of replacing private property and markets with social ownership and economic planning. The "social" element to the model instead refers to support for the provision of equal opportunity and protection of those unable to enter the free market labor force because of old-age, disability, or unemployment

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

[Gomagic44]

I understand you have a vested interest in the current system and I don't blame you personally. My sister is a Radiologist and I saw the downright devotion it takes to go through all that schooling. It's not for most people. But then you also have the AMA is it? That artificially keeps the number of doctors in this country low by making an insane barrier to entry cost.

"Hey little bro do you know why med school has a 99% graduation rate? Because if you fail your 500,000$ in debt!"

Surely there is a way to keep doctors pay at a respectable rate while expanding care to all. The current system incentivises people to avoid doctors and medical care and that's not good for any of us.

I agree with you but I think you stop short. This outbreak shows that m4a is necessary. The amount of bankruptsies that will come from us not having that during this will be quiet large. People in Europe and Canada can't even fathom going broke over a car wreck, let alone a pandemic. Profit doesn't belong in healthcare delivery imo. They make money by denying you care. They don't innovate. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year paid to them by our paychecks to blast mind numbing propoganda in commercials to us. United, blue cross, Cigna. They are all crap. They suck value from the economy while producing nothing of value to their customers.

I wonder if this virus will finally show the broad public how absurd it is to have access to health care tied to people's employment.

As unemployment and hospitalizations both rise due to COVID19, the first thing any human would hope for is that there is a way to protect themselves and family, get tested, and treated without going bankrupt.

I believe a lot of the inequities in our healthcare system are actively being exposed during this pandemic. There has been data released about how minorities are seeing poorer outcomes with regard to COVID19 infection. Part of that is probably related to higher uninsurance rates, and higher number of comorbidities.

I'm not even advocating for M4A kind of strategy, but I do think the current system is wildly profit-driven, as opposed to being one that's effective for people in their most vulnerable moments.

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

Medicare for all sounds good to those that don't have health insurance, but it is so nuts and bolts basic care for some healthcare professionals. It pays fantastic at end of life care, but for me as a Chiropractor I get $38.04 total for a treatment, no pay for an exam, x-rays, or therapy. Keep in mind, my cash fee for an adjustment is $45. Its just as bad for others as well. For those of us who went to school for a very long time and incurred a lot of college debt, you would be putting people out of business. Other things would have to be tied to it like debt forgiveness for college loans and other sweeteners. Or, ramp up the pay schedule to those who don't have a huge lobby in D.C. A lot of doctors don't even take medicare now because of that level of pay. On the flip side, it would ease up responsibility on businesses and free them up more to expand the economy, compete better globally, and that's including giving everyone a substantial raise as well. There needs to be a happy medium where you can get insurance whether employed or not, and make it portable to whatever job or state you go to. I like the affordable healthcare law, it just needs to be ramped up better, and then slowly you can take more burden off of employers.

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[spinedoc]

I understand you have a vested interest in the current system and I don't blame you personally. My sister is a Radiologist and I saw the downright devotion it takes to go through all that schooling. It's not for most people. But then you also have the AMA is it? That artificially keeps the number of doctors in this country low by making an insane barrier to entry cost.

"Hey little bro do you know why med school has a 99% graduation rate? Because if you fail your 500,000$ in debt!"

Surely there is a way to keep doctors pay at a respectable rate while expanding care to all. The current system incentivises people to avoid doctors and medical care and that's not good for any of us.

I agree with you but I think you stop short. This outbreak shows that m4a is necessary. The amount of bankruptsies that will come from us not having that during this will be quiet large. People in Europe and Canada can't even fathom going broke over a car wreck, let alone a pandemic. Profit doesn't belong in healthcare delivery imo. They make money by denying you care. They don't innovate. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year paid to them by our paychecks to blast mind numbing propoganda in commercials to us. United, blue cross, Cigna. They are all crap. They suck value from the economy while producing nothing of value to their customers.

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Medicare for all sounds good to those that don't have health insurance, but it is so nuts and bolts basic care for some healthcare professionals. It pays fantastic at end of life care, but for me as a Chiropractor I get $38.04 total for a treatment, no pay for an exam, x-rays, or therapy. Keep in mind, my cash fee for an adjustment is $45. Its just as bad for others as well. For those of us who went to school for a very long time and incurred a lot of college debt, you would be putting people out of business. Other things would have to be tied to it like debt forgiveness for college loans and other sweeteners. Or, ramp up the pay schedule to those who don't have a huge lobby in D.C. A lot of doctors don't even take medicare now because of that level of pay. On the flip side, it would ease up responsibility on businesses and free them up more to expand the economy, compete better globally, and that's including giving everyone a substantial raise as well. There needs to be a happy medium where you can get insurance whether employed or not, and make it portable to whatever job or state you go to. I like the affordable healthcare law, it just needs to be ramped up better, and then slowly you can take more burden off of employers.

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I totally agree. That's why I don't like the term Medicare for all, and would rather call it universal healthcare. Especially to our overseas friends here, Medicare is not what they get back home. Its a peg that doesn't fit well for everyone, that's why it needs to be something new to address the inequities in the system. Its a distinction difference, but a very important one. There is far too much profit in our system however. Incentives are out of whack. They will pay very well for surgeries and emergency procedures, but not very well on prevention or maintenance care. That's why a lot of us say we don't have a healthcare system, we have a sick care system. A lot of things need to change and looked upon in a completely different manner. The same could be said about vacations in our country, our mindset is so different than places like Europe. They even get time off for the father after a new born, and mental holidays and such. The focus is actually on health and the family, here its a dog eat dog world.

[spinedoc]

I haven't heard anybody mention this. But I do think Genes/ Genetics also plays a role in someone catches the virus in how they do.

It's not just about age, underlying condition or their blood type but Genes/Genetics plays a role.

Sure, as it relates to any predisposition of your own inherent immunity. Meaning, a genetic defect can leave you more susceptible to contracting illness, or a virus. This virus doesn't attack a certain genetic code though if that's what you are wondering. I was having a discussion with another doctor friend of mine, and he was saying that it may have something to do with hemoglobin in your blood. It may be effecting the oxygen carrying mechanism of your red blood cells. I haven't seen that research. I'm still in the belief that there is an overwhelming inflammatory reaction that takes place in your lungs, which fill up with fluid. I believe that most people are dying of secondary infections from pneumonia, but that's really in the weeds here. There is a lot we still don't know, so I can't say for sure yet.

Edit: There is one factor related to chromosomes though. The "X" chromosome is stronger structurally than the "Y", so that is probably why more men are affected or dying vs women.

[nymets1]

I haven't heard anybody mention this. But I do think Genes/ Genetics also plays a role in someone catches the virus in how they do.

It's not just about age, underlying condition or their blood type but Genes/Genetics plays a role.

Sure, as it relates to any predisposition of your own inherent immunity. Meaning, a genetic defect can leave you more susceptible to contracting illness, or a virus. This virus doesn't attack a certain genetic code though if that's what you are wondering. I was having a discussion with another doctor friend of mine, and he was saying that it may have something to do with hemoglobin in your blood. It may be effecting the oxygen carrying mechanism of your red blood cells. I haven't seen that research. I'm still in the belief that there is an overwhelming inflammatory reaction that takes place in your lungs, which fill up with fluid. I believe that most people are dying of secondary infections from pneumonia, but that's really in the weeds here. There is a lot we still don't know, so I can't say for sure yet.

Edit: There is one factor related to chromosomes though. The "X" chromosome is stronger structurally than the "Y", so that is probably why more men are affected or dying vs women.

I think enough Men should be able to survive. If we lost too many Men and the population became too much females, There wouldn't be enough Men to have sex with Women to make kids.

[tiderulz]

I haven't heard anybody mention this. But I do think Genes/ Genetics also plays a role in someone catches the virus in how they do.

It's not just about age, underlying condition or their blood type but Genes/Genetics plays a role.

Sure, as it relates to any predisposition of your own inherent immunity. Meaning, a genetic defect can leave you more susceptible to contracting illness, or a virus. This virus doesn't attack a certain genetic code though if that's what you are wondering. I was having a discussion with another doctor friend of mine, and he was saying that it may have something to do with hemoglobin in your blood. It may be effecting the oxygen carrying mechanism of your red blood cells. I haven't seen that research. I'm still in the belief that there is an overwhelming inflammatory reaction that takes place in your lungs, which fill up with fluid. I believe that most people are dying of secondary infections from pneumonia, but that's really in the weeds here. There is a lot we still don't know, so I can't say for sure yet.

Edit: There is one factor related to chromosomes though. The "X" chromosome is stronger structurally than the "Y", so that is probably why more men are affected or dying vs women.

I think enough Men should be able to survive. If we lost too many Men and the population became too much females, There wouldn't be enough Men to have sex with Women to make kids.

thats not a requirement