Shams: The season is suspended / Coronavirus Thread

[nymets1]

Sure, as it relates to any predisposition of your own inherent immunity. Meaning, a genetic defect can leave you more susceptible to contracting illness, or a virus. This virus doesn't attack a certain genetic code though if that's what you are wondering. I was having a discussion with another doctor friend of mine, and he was saying that it may have something to do with hemoglobin in your blood. It may be effecting the oxygen carrying mechanism of your red blood cells. I haven't seen that research. I'm still in the belief that there is an overwhelming inflammatory reaction that takes place in your lungs, which fill up with fluid. I believe that most people are dying of secondary infections from pneumonia, but that's really in the weeds here. There is a lot we still don't know, so I can't say for sure yet.

Edit: There is one factor related to chromosomes though. The "X" chromosome is stronger structurally than the "Y", so that is probably why more men are affected or dying vs women.

I think enough Men should be able to survive. If we lost too many Men and the population became too much females, There wouldn't be enough Men to have sex with Women to make kids.

thats not a requirement

I don't think the population will lose too many men. But if there's fewer babies being born than the population can't rise.

[thelead]

WTF are we even talking about here????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Ducklett]

WTF are we even talking about here????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The comic Y: The Last Man.

[tiderulz]

I think enough Men should be able to survive. If we lost too many Men and the population became too much females, There wouldn't be enough Men to have sex with Women to make kids.

thats not a requirement

I don't think the population will lose too many men. But if there's fewer babies being born than the population can't rise.

just saying, you dont have to have sex to make kids

[MoMM]

I want some of those benefits! I wanted paid paternity leave! I don't wanna go broke from a car wreck! I don't bring those things up to say why can't they have the same gamble in life as me! But rather why can't we have that level of personal security?!

The same could be said about vacations in our country, our mindset is so different than places like Europe. They even get time off for the father after a new born, and mental holidays and such. The focus is actually on health and the family, here its a dog eat dog world.

Paternity and Maternity leave in Germany are 14 months and you can split the way you want between the mother and the father, usually father gets 2 and mother 12 months.

Here in Germany I have 30 days of paid vacations and the company is from US, I just imagine how many days my fellow co-workers in US have...

Like some people say, Americans live to work and the Europeans work to live, it's a totally different mindset and one of the reasons I didn't like living in Orlando and San Francisco, basically the only place in US that I would live again would be Hawaii, but that's a paradise

[nymets1]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/10/americans-will-have-a-coronavirus-antibody-test-very-soon-pence-says.html

I also heard Fauci say they could be available next week. I think I might have had the virus in early March and already recovered?

[nymets1]

Last night's number's as of 9 pm from bing.com/covid

USA-468,703 confirmed cases(+32,463 increase), Recoveries- 25,900(+2126 increase), Deaths- 16,679(+1917 increase)
New York- 159,937 confirmed cases(+8977 increase), Recoveries- 16,234(+1644 increase)
New Jersey- 51, 027 confirmed cases(+3590 increase)
Michigan- 21,504 confirmed cases(+1158 increase)
California- 19,691 confirmed cases(+2017 increase)
Mass- 18,941 confirmed cases(+1588 increase)
Louisana- 18,263 confirmed cases(+1253 increase)
Penn- 18,228 confirmed cases(+1989 increase)
Florida- 16,826 confirmed cases(+1128 increase)
Illinois- 16, 422 confirmed cases(+1344 increase)
Georgia- 10,885 confirmed cases(+984 increase)
Texas- 10,230 confirmed cases(+877 increase)
Connecticut- 9784 confirmed cases(+2003 increase)
Washington- 9608 confirmed cases- (+511 increase)

Spain- 153,222 confirmed cases(+858 increase), Recoveries- 52,165(+4144 increase)
Italy- 143,626 confirmed cases(+2225 increase), Recoveries- 28,470(+1979 increase)
Germany- 118, 235 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 40,015(+7201 increase), Active cases- 75,613
France- 112,950 confirmed cases(+30,902 increase), Recoveries- 21,461

1. Spain again with a large increase in recoveries today with 4144 increase
2. I just started to follow France since they past over 100,000 confirmed cases
3. Small state Connecticut is surging in new cases, Almost 10,000 confirmed cases for a very small state

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ as of 9pm

USA-468,887 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 25,928, Deaths- 16,697
New York- +10,333 increase in confirmed cases
New Jersey- +3590 increase in confirmed cases
Michigan- +1158 increase in confirmed cases
California- +1141 increase in confirmed cases
Mass- +2151 increase in confirmed cases
Penn- +1803 increase in confirmed cases
Louisana- +1253 increase in confirmed cases
Florida- +1128 increase in confirmed cases
Illinois- +1344 increase in confirmed cases
Texas- +1361 increase in confirmed cases
Georgia- +681 increase in confirmed cases
Connecticut- +1003 increase in confirmed cases
Washington- +310 increase in confirmed cases

Today's numbers as of 9pm from bing.com/covid

USA- 502,513 confirmed cases(+34,285 increase), Recoveries- 28,706(+3363 increase), Deaths- 18,631(+2133 increase)
New York- 170,512 confirmed cases(+10,575 increase), Recoveries- 16,234
New jersey- 54,588 confirmed cases(+3561 increase)
Michigan- 22,783 confirmed cases(+1279 increase)
Mass- 20,974 confirmed cases(+4184 increase)
California- 20,212 confirmed cases(+521 increase)
Penn- 19,979 confirmed cases(+3740 increase)
Louisana- 19,253 confirmed cases(+970 increase)
Florida- 17,968 confirmed cases(+1179 increase)
Illinois- 17,887 confirmed cases(+1465 increase)
Georgia- 11,859 confirmed cases(+1293 increase)
Texas- 11,671 confirmed cases(+1176 increase)
Connecticut- 10,538 confirmed cases(+754 increase)
Washington- 9608 confirmed cases(+511 increase), (8 straight days)

Spain- 158,273 confirmed cases(+1548 increase), Recoveries- 55,668(+3503 increase)
Italy- 147,577 confirmed cases(+1976 increase), Recoveries- 30,445(+1975 increase)
Germany- 122,215 confirmed cases(+1840 increase), Recoveries- 42,155(+2140 increase)
France- 112,950 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 24,932(+3678 increase)

1. Spain again with a great number in recoveries today with 3503
2. USA recoveries today is 3363


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

USA- 502,318 confirmed cases, Recoveries- 27,314, Deaths- 18,725
New York- +10,854 increase in confirmed cases
New Jersey- +3561 increase in confirmed cases
Michigan- +1279 increase
California- +1102 increase
Mass- +2033 increase
Penn- +1794 increase
Louisana- +970 increase
Florida- +1142 increase
Illinois- +1465 increase
Texas- +760 increase
Georgia- +974 increase
Connecticut- +754 increase
Washington- +543 increase

The antibodies test could arrive next week. At this point there are a lot more unconfirmed cases of USA residents that either have the virus or had the virus and recovered. So when this antibodies test are available this should be the higher priority. I'm guessing there's between 25 to 50 million people unconfirmed cases that have the virus or already recovered so they need that many antibodies test from the start.

[Driguez]

WTF are we even talking about here????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Optimus_Steel]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/jobs-economy/os-ne-florida-unemployment-system-coronavirus-20200410-edxpfjygqrcnfggtpwmsqydjy4-story.html

“It’s only for $211, but I desperately need it,” said Deborah Collins, of Summerfield, just north of The Villages, who’s been trying to get benefits since mid-February, when the Aunt Fannie’s restaurant in Belleview where she worked as a server shut down after a fire.

“We’re completely broke. I have some medication I can’t even pick up,” Collins said. “I’ve got one pill left for today, and then I’m going to have to borrow the money, I guess from somebody, and go get that medication.”

Florida’s CONNECT system, which manages jobless benefits, was difficult to access even before much of economic life was shut down in mid-March and social distancing measures put in place to slow the spread of the virus. But with the inundation in claims, some people trying to apply for benefits say the system’s dysfunction makes it nearly impossible to get paid.

FLORIDA CORONAVIRUS DEATHS PASS 400, CASES NEAR 18,000

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CORONAVIRUS JOBS AND ECONOMY

CORONAVIRUS

‘We’re completely broke.’ Florida unemployment claims appear to fall even further behind.

By GRAY ROHRER

ORLANDO SENTINEL

APR 10, 2020 | 5:22 PM

[https://www]

“This is a shock like we’ve never seen before so we’re shifting as many resources to this as we can to be able to meet this real crushing demand,” Gov. Ron DeSantis told reporters in Jacksonville on April 10, 2020.(Al Diaz/AP)

TALLAHASSEE — In what was billed as Florida’s “test week” for its backlogged unemployment system, the state appears to be falling further behind, as hundreds of thousands continue to wait for benefits in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic.

“It’s only for $211, but I desperately need it,” said Deborah Collins, of Summerfield, just north of The Villages, who’s been trying to get benefits since mid-February, when the Aunt Fannie’s restaurant in Belleview where she worked as a server shut down after a fire.

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“We’re completely broke. I have some medication I can’t even pick up,” Collins said. “I’ve got one pill left for today, and then I’m going to have to borrow the money, I guess from somebody, and go get that medication.”

Florida’s CONNECT system, which manages jobless benefits, was difficult to access even before much of economic life was shut down in mid-March and social distancing measures put in place to slow the spread of the virus. But with the inundation in claims, some people trying to apply for benefits say the system’s dysfunction makes it nearly impossible to get paid.

Gov. Ron DeSantis and administration officials have cited progress in accepting more claims after making upgrades to the system, creating a new website, accepting paper applications, adding more servers and adding more workers to take calls on the helpline.

[The latest] Rep. Stephanie Murphy asks for federal probe of Florida’s unemployment system »

At a news conference in Jacksonville on Friday, DeSantis said there were 225,755 initial claims filed this week so far, compared with the 170,000 last week and the 228,000 for the week ending March 27. DEO also received 12,000 paper applications.

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DEO executive director Ken Lawson on Monday cited a goal of processing 80,000 claims this week, despite having a backlog of more than 560,000 claims. Lawson said this would be a “test week” for the system and the administration’s improvements.

But it’s hard to assess just how far behind the state is in getting out payments. A DEO spokeswoman did not answer repeated requests for data this week on the amount of daily calls, the number and amount of claims paid or the average claim amount paid.

Nationwide, there were 6.6 million unemployment claims last week, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

“This is a shock like we’ve never seen before so we’re shifting as many resources to this as we can to be able to meet this real crushing demand,” DeSantis said.

Ads by Teads

ADVERTISING

[The latest] Rep. Stephanie Murphy asks for federal probe of Florida’s unemployment system »

But even with system improvements and increased capacity, the delays are likely to continue for thousands of applicants. Even after getting a claim filed, it must be reviewed, processed and approved. And even then, problems can occur.

After being initially approved, Collins said her check is being held up because she didn’t meet the work search requirements, even though DeSantis’ administration has waived that requirement until May 1. That delay has consequences. She and her husband have paid their bills and bought groceries, but she’s waiting on the unemployment benefits to buy the medication she needs for her rheumatoid arthritis.

Calling the DEO’s helpline hasn’t helped, she said. After a series of menu options is given and buttons pressed in an attempt to get an operator, she receives an automated message saying all lines are busy and to check DEO’s website for more information.

DEO signed a contract with a call center to add 250 people to take calls. That contract showed that in one recent week DEO answered less than 2 percent of calls, and while some were able to be helped by the automated system, 90 percent of callers were disconnected or gave up waiting on hold.

Soo looking forward to applying Monday...

Thanks alot Rick Scott. You succeeded in creating an unemployment assistance system that provides no assistance. Just as he wanted, designed dysfunction.

[Bensational]

This, unfortunately I agree with... The Democratic party is feckless because they are just as bought by Corporations as the GOP. At least the older order. They all have stocks in Medical and all that other ish.

So Joe's motto is status quo... Unfortunately

I am against both sides but usually go lesser of the two evils. And, currently, extremist left winger Socialists are the root of all evil!

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

Is it a hangover from the Cold War and anti-communist/socialist propoganda of that era?

A lot of countries in Europe seem to be racing towards a perfect balance of capitalism and socialism. They also seem to be ahead on issues like climate change. It feels like an inevitable evolution, but America does like to be the wild west so they will probably be the last to change.

[Ducklett]

I am against both sides but usually go lesser of the two evils. And, currently, extremist left winger Socialists are the root of all evil!

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

Is it a hangover from the Cold War and anti-communist/socialist propoganda of that era?

A lot of countries in Europe seem to be racing towards a perfect balance of capitalism and socialism. They also seem to be ahead on issues like climate change. It feels like an inevitable evolution, but America does like to be the wild west so they will probably be the last to change.

Europe (specifically western Europe) has so many of their own problems though. Trying to suggest every country with their different circumstances use the same model seems like a fool's errand. Also, I am pretty sure most people are okay with "socialism" in so far as what part of the government (local/state/federal) has control over those things.

[basketballRob]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/coronavirus/jobs-economy/os-ne-florida-unemployment-system-coronavirus-20200410-edxpfjygqrcnfggtpwmsqydjy4-story.html

“It’s only for $211, but I desperately need it,” said Deborah Collins, of Summerfield, just north of The Villages, who’s been trying to get benefits since mid-February, when the Aunt Fannie’s restaurant in Belleview where she worked as a server shut down after a fire.

“We’re completely broke. I have some medication I can’t even pick up,” Collins said. “I’ve got one pill left for today, and then I’m going to have to borrow the money, I guess from somebody, and go get that medication.”

Florida’s CONNECT system, which manages jobless benefits, was difficult to access even before much of economic life was shut down in mid-March and social distancing measures put in place to slow the spread of the virus. But with the inundation in claims, some people trying to apply for benefits say the system’s dysfunction makes it nearly impossible to get paid.

FLORIDA CORONAVIRUS DEATHS PASS 400, CASES NEAR 18,000

ADVERTISEMENT

CORONAVIRUS JOBS AND ECONOMY

CORONAVIRUS

‘We’re completely broke.’ Florida unemployment claims appear to fall even further behind.

By GRAY ROHRER

ORLANDO SENTINEL

APR 10, 2020 | 5:22 PM

[https://www]

“This is a shock like we’ve never seen before so we’re shifting as many resources to this as we can to be able to meet this real crushing demand,” Gov. Ron DeSantis told reporters in Jacksonville on April 10, 2020.(Al Diaz/AP)

TALLAHASSEE — In what was billed as Florida’s “test week” for its backlogged unemployment system, the state appears to be falling further behind, as hundreds of thousands continue to wait for benefits in the midst of the coronavirus pandemic.

“It’s only for $211, but I desperately need it,” said Deborah Collins, of Summerfield, just north of The Villages, who’s been trying to get benefits since mid-February, when the Aunt Fannie’s restaurant in Belleview where she worked as a server shut down after a fire.

ADVERTISEMENT

“We’re completely broke. I have some medication I can’t even pick up,” Collins said. “I’ve got one pill left for today, and then I’m going to have to borrow the money, I guess from somebody, and go get that medication.”

Florida’s CONNECT system, which manages jobless benefits, was difficult to access even before much of economic life was shut down in mid-March and social distancing measures put in place to slow the spread of the virus. But with the inundation in claims, some people trying to apply for benefits say the system’s dysfunction makes it nearly impossible to get paid.

Gov. Ron DeSantis and administration officials have cited progress in accepting more claims after making upgrades to the system, creating a new website, accepting paper applications, adding more servers and adding more workers to take calls on the helpline.

[The latest] Rep. Stephanie Murphy asks for federal probe of Florida’s unemployment system »

At a news conference in Jacksonville on Friday, DeSantis said there were 225,755 initial claims filed this week so far, compared with the 170,000 last week and the 228,000 for the week ending March 27. DEO also received 12,000 paper applications.

Ads by Teads

ADVERTISING

DEO executive director Ken Lawson on Monday cited a goal of processing 80,000 claims this week, despite having a backlog of more than 560,000 claims. Lawson said this would be a “test week” for the system and the administration’s improvements.

But it’s hard to assess just how far behind the state is in getting out payments. A DEO spokeswoman did not answer repeated requests for data this week on the amount of daily calls, the number and amount of claims paid or the average claim amount paid.

Nationwide, there were 6.6 million unemployment claims last week, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

“This is a shock like we’ve never seen before so we’re shifting as many resources to this as we can to be able to meet this real crushing demand,” DeSantis said.

Ads by Teads

ADVERTISING

[The latest] Rep. Stephanie Murphy asks for federal probe of Florida’s unemployment system »

But even with system improvements and increased capacity, the delays are likely to continue for thousands of applicants. Even after getting a claim filed, it must be reviewed, processed and approved. And even then, problems can occur.

After being initially approved, Collins said her check is being held up because she didn’t meet the work search requirements, even though DeSantis’ administration has waived that requirement until May 1. That delay has consequences. She and her husband have paid their bills and bought groceries, but she’s waiting on the unemployment benefits to buy the medication she needs for her rheumatoid arthritis.

Calling the DEO’s helpline hasn’t helped, she said. After a series of menu options is given and buttons pressed in an attempt to get an operator, she receives an automated message saying all lines are busy and to check DEO’s website for more information.

DEO signed a contract with a call center to add 250 people to take calls. That contract showed that in one recent week DEO answered less than 2 percent of calls, and while some were able to be helped by the automated system, 90 percent of callers were disconnected or gave up waiting on hold.

Soo looking forward to applying Monday...

Thanks alot Rick Scott. You succeeded in creating an unemployment assistance system that provides no assistance. Just as he wanted, designed dysfunction.

Funny thing is Scott has been living off the government for the majority of his life. He was even accused of fraudulently overcharging the government.

You can print out a paper application. It's like 7 or 8 pages, but it's pretty easy to fill out.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[spinedoc]

I am against both sides but usually go lesser of the two evils. And, currently, extremist left winger Socialists are the root of all evil!

Respectfully. I disagree.

It continues to alarm me that Americans don't realize that they are ALL already card carrying socialists... Literally. You have a Social Security ID card.

People hear socialism and confuse it with communisim, it seems to me, all the time. A little socialism is good in capitalism. Or is everyone here willing to forgo trash pick up, Public Education, Police, Fire, EMT, Military, EPA, FDA, CDC..... Etcetera?

I'm down for adding healthcare while unemployed to that list. Does that make me a liberal elitist? I don't think so.

Is it a hangover from the Cold War and anti-communist/socialist propoganda of that era?

A lot of countries in Europe seem to be racing towards a perfect balance of capitalism and socialism. They also seem to be ahead on issues like climate change. It feels like an inevitable evolution, but America does like to be the wild west so they will probably be the last to change.

No, lol, you're thinking about it too much. They literally don't know the difference between the two, nor could they tell you what each of them means. So, they will interchange them like that. Its fascinating to watch. A library at their fingertips now, and hardly anyone uses it when they really need it. This mindset is all about makers and takers, which is steeped in racial connotations. We all know who they are really talking about when they say things like that. Of course, they are the earners and the entitled ones, while the other is the lazy people dependent on Government for a hand out. Sure, we fought this battle over Medicare and Social Security, but it really goes back to the civil war and reconstruction. You will usually hear the argument in there about "state's rights". Loosely translated to mean that they can treat their blacks anyway they want. They are against a centralized federal power telling them what to do. Of course, that also leads to the gun rights discussion and why we have a right to bear arms. Its for an overreaching federal government. Not realizing that we live in a Democracy where we the people are actually the government. Well, a Republic really, we choose people to represent us, close enough. There are a whole bunch more things stuck in that timeline, but a quick soup to nuts American history lesson.

[fklt]

Is it a hangover from the Cold War and anti-communist/socialist propoganda of that era?

A lot of countries in Europe seem to be racing towards a perfect balance of capitalism and socialism. They also seem to be ahead on issues like climate change. It feels like an inevitable evolution, but America does like to be the wild west so they will probably be the last to change.

No, lol, you're thinking about it too much. They literally don't know the difference between the two, nor could they tell you what each of them means. So, they will interchange them like that. Its fascinating to watch. A library at their fingertips now, and hardly anyone uses it when they really need it. This mindset is all about makers and takers, which is steeped in racial connotations. We all know who they are really talking about when they say things like that. Of course, they are the earners and the entitled ones, while the other is the lazy people dependent on Government for a hand out. Sure, we fought this battle over Medicare and Social Security, but it really goes back to the civil war and reconstruction. You will usually hear the argument in there about "state's rights". Loosely translated to mean that they can treat their blacks anyway they want. They are against a centralized federal power telling them what to do. Of course, that also leads to the gun rights discussion and why we have a right to bear arms. Its for an overreaching federal government. Not realizing that we live in a Democracy where we the people are actually the government. Well, a Republic really, we choose people to represent us, close enough. There are a whole bunch more things stuck in that timeline, but a quick soup to nuts American history lesson.

I don't think it has anything to do with racism.

USA political parties and the media, which are basically just branches of the well connected, try their best to construct politics over the bull**** provocative social issues like racism, abortion, gender etc. that is the dichothomy they prefer people to spend their energy in. it's where they prefer to keep the discourse.

the civil war wasn't even about racism, let alone the states rights. why would you develop this innate hate against a group of people all of a sudden. it was about some rich people's undying desire to keep the property they had, which just happen to be actual people they kidnapped from africa at the time. and they were not going to give that up no matter what, very similiar to their modern counterparts today. concept of race, and naturally the racism were developed as justifications of this one simple desire. it's how they sold it to the masses, because to mobilize people you must always speak to their most primal instincts like fear of the other. the word "race" didn't even exist as we knew it before that time. It's true that it has took on hold, and now it is something very real. and also it's true that it's still being used as a tool to push for the policies that is against the very interests of conservative people even. It's been effective, it has brutal manifestations on the actual people who are at the receiving end, and to them there might not be a bigger truth.

Idea of gun rights to prevent government overreach and tyranny? americans already lost their democracy completely for a real while. they live in a practical oligarchy where public opinion has zero correlation with public policy. democracy has been dead and lo and behold all the guns they own did do jack **** to save it. the reason there is no gun control in USA is not because people don't want it. overwhelming majority of them support some version of it. it's because there is a billion dollar industry fighting against it.



Rejection of the government as the representatives of the people and all other libertarian bull**** that frames "regulation" as a bad word, even the insane turning on it's head they managed to do on the word "liberty", as rich people's freedom to oppress and **** things up is all related to this one desire; rich people wanting to stay rich.

I'm more akin to agree with ben's take on the issue, with a small difference; these anti-socialist sentiments are not from a different era. they're pretty much as alive as they've ever been, because people pushing for them have not changed one bit.

[p0peye]

Seeing this discussion about modern socialism and capitalism, I can share some insights from my side, considering that my country has gone through several changes and transformations in past 30 years and I've been through them all. It is a bit long post, so I apologise for that.

In '80s we had socialism (or communism, depending on perspective) and communist party was ruling the country. We had planned economy with basic private entrepreneurship. Economy was stagnating, tech development was behind western world, domestic market was heavily protected and many imports were not allowed, media was controlled and some civil liberties was missing.

We had free universal healthcare and free education, both were excellent quality. Unemployment was low, wages weren't high, but it shouldn't be compared easily with western (I'll come back to this later), rents were low and families usually got accomodation free of charge assigned to them by the companies they work for, in accordance to family requirements (no. of household members). It was not unusual for a family to have an apartment (assigned), and to build a privately owned house for themselves near the beach or on the country side/mountain (or both).

'90s were especially hard since country broke apart and had raging wars which in our (Serbia) case lasted entire decade in one form or the other. It was also a time where socialism/communism was trying to transition to different form of economic and political system. Not many good things can be said about this era, much of it not related to this discussion.

In '00s we finally transitioned to typical system found today in most eastern european countries. Gone are big socialist corporations, which are replaced with... well, imports of goods from western and eastern (China) economical giants. Education is no longer free, while healthcare is still universal and free - but severely under-budgeted so for most basic health services (dental care, blood tests, etc...) people don't even bother to try to schedule. Instead, they go to private healthcare institutions where they pay for service. Salaries are higher, but more so is cost of living. Rents got higher, accommodation was no longer assigned and had to be bought. Domestic market protection has been lifted and anything can be imported, making local companies no longer competitive and closed instead. Unemployment rate is high.

Last decade is marked with similar trends as in other continental european countries aside from Germany, France and nordic countries. Politics seemed to be dominated by nationalists and populists, while economy is heavily dependant on imports and outsourcing. I'm in software engineering industry, so I do pretty well, supporting family (wife and two children). I've bought apartment, solidly large for our family, we travel a lot, lived some time abroad in Middle East, came back. From what I can tell, economically we are prototype of small country in todays economy.

Recently, I have accepted a position in Amazon AWS in Dublin, Ireland. Even though it is pretty well paid (package of base salary / signon bonus / RSU), when everything put together considering taxation, rent in Ireland for similarly sized apartment or house, scholarships for two children, medical insurance, etc... financially it is not more beneficial for us, about the same as currently in Serbia.

TLDR, it is a tradeoff between socialism and capitalism.

I personally liked life in Oman (Middle East, south from Dubai) the most. In my opinion it was best form of socialist capitalism. Relaxed culture and no income tax of any kind helps. Government budget relies on taxing companies, not citizens. Companies also frequently pay for accomodation, transportation and even scholarships for kids. Expats get gratuity payment at the end of their contract to cover for social/pension fonds.

[tiderulz]

TLDR, it is a tradeoff between socialism and capitalism.

I personally liked life in Oman (Middle East, south from Dubai) the most. In my opinion it was best form of socialist capitalism. Relaxed culture and no income tax of any kind helps. Government budget relies on taxing companies, not citizens. Companies also frequently pay for accomodation, transportation and even scholarships for kids. Expats get gratuity payment at the end of their contract to cover for social/pension fonds.

unfortunately here, the corporations and CEO's have tricked the average person into believing that taxes on corporations are bad. That if they get tax breaks, they will re-invest that money into salaries, economy, etc. And then when those tax breaks come in, they keep all the saved money and you continue to see CEO salary 4,000x the average workers salary. and yet, you continue to see interviews and read articles interviewing someone talking about how some big tax break is so good, and in actuality they will not see any of that tax break.

There are days when i think about some of the fantasy sci-fi movies where places aren't controlled by governments but by large corporations and think, that could easily be what we evolve into.

[p0peye]

TLDR, it is a tradeoff between socialism and capitalism.

I personally liked life in Oman (Middle East, south from Dubai) the most. In my opinion it was best form of socialist capitalism. Relaxed culture and no income tax of any kind helps. Government budget relies on taxing companies, not citizens. Companies also frequently pay for accomodation, transportation and even scholarships for kids. Expats get gratuity payment at the end of their contract to cover for social/pension fonds.

unfortunately here, the corporations and CEO's have tricked the average person into believing that taxes on corporations are bad. That if they get tax breaks, they will re-invest that money into salaries, economy, etc. And then when those tax breaks come in, they keep all the saved money and you continue to see CEO salary 4,000x the average workers salary. and yet, you continue to see interviews and read articles interviewing someone talking about how some big tax break is so good, and in actuality they will not see any of that tax break.

There are days when i think about some of the fantasy sci-fi movies where places aren't controlled by governments but by large corporations and think, that could easily be what we evolve into.

There might be some truth in your last sentence.

On corporations, I'd say they will replace human workers with AI/robots completely in next 30 years and this includes most software developer profiles we have today. IMHO, going forward taxation should evolve around corporations/landlords and not citizens, or next revolution could become inevitable.

[spinedoc]

Is it a hangover from the Cold War and anti-communist/socialist propoganda of that era?

A lot of countries in Europe seem to be racing towards a perfect balance of capitalism and socialism. They also seem to be ahead on issues like climate change. It feels like an inevitable evolution, but America does like to be the wild west so they will probably be the last to change.

No, lol, you're thinking about it too much. They literally don't know the difference between the two, nor could they tell you what each of them means. So, they will interchange them like that. Its fascinating to watch. A library at their fingertips now, and hardly anyone uses it when they really need it. This mindset is all about makers and takers, which is steeped in racial connotations. We all know who they are really talking about when they say things like that. Of course, they are the earners and the entitled ones, while the other is the lazy people dependent on Government for a hand out. Sure, we fought this battle over Medicare and Social Security, but it really goes back to the civil war and reconstruction. You will usually hear the argument in there about "state's rights". Loosely translated to mean that they can treat their blacks anyway they want. They are against a centralized federal power telling them what to do. Of course, that also leads to the gun rights discussion and why we have a right to bear arms. Its for an overreaching federal government. Not realizing that we live in a Democracy where we the people are actually the government. Well, a Republic really, we choose people to represent us, close enough. There are a whole bunch more things stuck in that timeline, but a quick soup to nuts American history lesson.

I don't think it has anything to do with racism.

USA political parties and the media, which are basically just branches of the well connected, try their best to construct politics over the bull**** provocative social issues like racism, abortion, gender etc. that is the dichothomy they prefer people to spend their energy in. it's where they prefer to keep the discourse.

the civil war wasn't even about racism, let alone the states rights. why would you develop this innate hate against a group of people all of a sudden. it was about some rich people's undying desire to keep the property they had, which just happen to be actual people they kidnapped from africa at the time. and they were not going to give that up no matter what, very similiar to their modern counterparts today. concept of race, and naturally the racism were developed as justifications of this one simple desire. it's how they sold it to the masses, because to mobilize people you must always speak to their most primal instincts like fear of the other. the word "race" didn't even exist as we knew it before that time. It's true that it has took on hold, and now it is something very real. and also it's true that it's still being used as a tool to push for the policies that is against the very interests of conservative people even. It's been effective, it has brutal manifestations on the actual people who are at the receiving end, and to them there might not be a bigger truth.

Idea of gun rights to prevent government overreach and tyranny? americans already lost their democracy completely for a real while. they live in a practical oligarchy where public opinion has zero correlation with public policy. democracy has been dead and lo and behold all the guns they own did do jack **** to save it. the reason there is no gun control in USA is not because people don't want it. overwhelming majority of them support some version of it. it's because there is a billion dollar industry fighting against it.



Rejection of the government as the representatives of the people and all other libertarian bull**** that frames "regulation" as a bad word, even the insane turning on it's head they managed to do on the word "liberty", as rich people's freedom to oppress and **** things up is all related to this one desire; rich people wanting to stay rich.

I'm more akin to agree with ben's take on the issue, with a small difference; these anti-socialist sentiments are not from a different era. they're pretty much as alive as they've ever been, because people pushing for them have not changed one bit.

Whoa, don't assign that motivation to me. I'm not projecting hate at all, but to think that much of this isn't about race is a bit naive. I agree with you that its about the rich wanting to stay rich, but its also about who the rich are and why. The system benefits those of a certain class of people, people who have climbed the ladder and want to pull it up for everyone else. That is deeply rooted in race where race and class were one in the same. These same people don't want a social safety net, and because of that they demonize it to mean a government hand out. That's wasted money going into the public coffers that could line their pockets instead. With a progressive tax system, the rich pay a higher amount dollar for dollar, but not based on percentage. That's the tug and pull at the very heart of the two party system. Wealthy people wanting to keep more of their own money, and working people wanting an equal playing field, but also having the same security wealthy people enjoy. I'm not saying all Republicans are racist, not at all, but it is a tool being used to motivate people to vote a certain way. I often say that many Republicans vote against their own self interests at times. Dog whistle politics is persuading portions of the country to align with their cause.

And yes, this is also what many romanticize as states rights, it has a history to it. The civil war was about property issues, I'll give you that, but please don't dismiss it as not being about slavery. That remnant had a huge issue with regard to reconstruction. Statues are still erected today in my neck of the woods for the confederate heroes and what they stood for. It was meant as a message to laud over a certain sect of the population to remind people what their values were and still are. The gun rights reference isn't directly connected. I didn't mean to make that point, mine was that these same folks would transition into that topic as a subtext of states rights as well, but tyranny is a part of that. The NRA used to be a hunting organization, now they are a lobby for the gun manufacturers to make more money. You're right, but there too they use racial connotations to stoke a bit of fear. Fear is a good motivational tool to get people to act in certain ways, and race works quite nicely. On a side note, I don't like the term race either, but it is the standard vernacular to use. There is technically only one race of people, and that is the human race. Also, good discussion. I hope it stays a peaceful exchange of thoughts without anyone taking too much offense. If you believe I'm wrong, that's cool, just tell me why you think that way without casting dispersions about my motivation.

[tiderulz]

TLDR, it is a tradeoff between socialism and capitalism.

I personally liked life in Oman (Middle East, south from Dubai) the most. In my opinion it was best form of socialist capitalism. Relaxed culture and no income tax of any kind helps. Government budget relies on taxing companies, not citizens. Companies also frequently pay for accomodation, transportation and even scholarships for kids. Expats get gratuity payment at the end of their contract to cover for social/pension fonds.

unfortunately here, the corporations and CEO's have tricked the average person into believing that taxes on corporations are bad. That if they get tax breaks, they will re-invest that money into salaries, economy, etc. And then when those tax breaks come in, they keep all the saved money and you continue to see CEO salary 4,000x the average workers salary. and yet, you continue to see interviews and read articles interviewing someone talking about how some big tax break is so good, and in actuality they will not see any of that tax break.

There are days when i think about some of the fantasy sci-fi movies where places aren't controlled by governments but by large corporations and think, that could easily be what we evolve into.

There might be some truth in your last sentence.

On corporations, I'd say they will replace human workers with AI/robots completely in next 30 years and this includes most software developer profiles we have today. IMHO, going forward taxation should evolve around corporations/landlords and not citizens, or next revolution could become inevitable.

so we have robots/AI developing themselves? i dont think we are that close yet. I do see manufacturing jobs getting more automated. though evolutionary development can sometime astound, if you look at say an aircraft carrier and technology compared from 1945 to 1975. or computers from say 1985 to 2015

though the robots will have to be better than this

[fklt]

Whoa, don't assign that motivation to me. I'm not projecting hate at all, but to think that much of this isn't about race is a bit naive. I agree with you that its about the rich wanting to stay rich, but its also about who the rich are and why. The system benefits those of a certain class of people, people who have climbed the ladder and want to pull it up for everyone else. That is deeply rooted in race where race and class were one in the same. These same people don't want a social safety net, and because of that they demonize it to mean a government hand out. That's wasted money going into the public coffers that could line their pockets instead. With a progressive tax system, the rich pay a higher amount dollar for dollar, but not based on percentage. That's the tug and pull at the very heart of the two party system. Wealthy people wanting to keep more of their own money, and working people wanting an equal playing field, but also having the same security wealthy people enjoy. I'm not saying all Republicans are racist, not at all, but it is a tool being used to motivate people to vote a certain way. I often say that many Republicans vote against their own self interests at times. Dog whistle politics is persuading portions of the country to align with their cause.

And yes, this is also what many romanticize as states rights, it has a history to it. The civil war was about property issues, I'll give you that, but please don't dismiss it as not being about slavery. That remnant had a huge issue with regard to reconstruction. Statues are still erected today in my neck of the woods for the confederate heroes and what they stood for. It was meant as a message to laud over a certain sect of the population to remind people what their values were and still are. The gun rights reference isn't directly connected. I didn't mean to make that point, mine was that these same folks would transition into that topic as a subtext of states rights as well. The NRA used to be a hunting organization, now they are a lobby for the gun manufacturers to make more money. You're right, but there too they use racial connotations to stoke a bit of fear. Fear is a good motivational tool to get people to act in certain ways, and race works quite nicely. On a side note, I don't like the term race either, but it is the standard vernacular to use. There is technically only one race of people, and that is the human race. Also, good discussion. I hope it stays a peaceful exchange of thoughts with anyone taking too much offense. If you believe I'm wrong, that's cool, just tell me why you think that way without casting dispersions about my motivation.

lol, sorry I usually have this combative tone because when I think about these things I get angry. I agree with you on almost everything. my point is most things affecting our lives are side effects of the constant power struggle between people, societies, countries. you can trace most seemingly unrelated societal problems in life back to desire to keep wealth and through it, power.

american conservative ideals are hodgepodge of totally unrelated and sometimes conflicting notions that are pushed on them, with only common thread between them being the fact that they all benefit the rich. that's why I'm treating racism and the like as side-effects rather than actual causes.

PS: also; you in that sentence is not "you", I wanted to refer to the people of the time.