The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded

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Who would you KEEP?

Rudy
15
33%
Donovan
22
48%
Neither
9
20%
 
Total votes: 46

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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#21 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:48 pm

KqWIN wrote:Steven Adams may have more "moves", but he's significantly less efficient. Don't really care if a guy has more moves if he's a lot worse.

Blowing it up at least gives fans false hope...because if you suck you can dream about better days. FWIW....blowing it up does not mean you have to trade Mitchell to be a bad team. He's not what makes the Jazz good. We are already tanking level team if Gobert has an off game. You have to trade Mitchell at some point because he will, but I would not trade him now. This draft is horrible.

Gobert is 2nd in FG% with .698. Are we going to find another player at his position who is available to trade and scores at his percentage, and also is good at defense? Probably not. If you want that player, just keep Gobert. But Adams is 13th in FG% with .594, which is still very good. Obviously we can't trade one player and get a complete clone of that player back--there will be variations, but .594 FG% is still very good. Or maybe do a trade of Gobert for Jonas Valančiūnas+assets? Maybe that's more palatable? We're obviously not getting a player as good as Gobert back, especially at the C position.

Regarding us being bad with DM and without Gobert--I agree. As I said, we suck without him. But as long as we can keep DM for the length of his next contract, we'll have some time to put together a team around him with a combination of assets from the Gobert trade (hopefully) and a few years in the lottery. Also, whoever we trade, we don't have to ask for picks in this draft.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#22 » by KqWIN » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:05 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Steven Adams may have more "moves", but he's significantly less efficient. Don't really care if a guy has more moves if he's a lot worse.

Blowing it up at least gives fans false hope...because if you suck you can dream about better days. FWIW....blowing it up does not mean you have to trade Mitchell to be a bad team. He's not what makes the Jazz good. We are already tanking level team if Gobert has an off game. You have to trade Mitchell at some point because he will, but I would not trade him now. This draft is horrible.

Gobert is 2nd in FG% with .698. Are we going to find another player at his position who is available to trade and scores at his percentage, and also is good at defense? Probably not. If you want that player, just keep Gobert. But Adams is 13th in FG% with .594, which is still very good. Obviously we can't trade one player and get a complete clone of that player back--there will be variations, but .594 FG% is still very good. Or maybe do a trade of Gobert for Jonas Valančiūnas+assets? Maybe that's more palatable? We're obviously not getting a player as good as Gobert back, especially at the C position.

Regarding us being bad with DM and without Gobert--I agree. As I said, we suck without him. But as long as we can keep DM for the length of his next contract, we'll have some time to put together a team around him with a combination of assets from the Gobert trade (hopefully) and a few years in the lottery. Also, whoever we trade, we don't have to ask for picks in this draft.


Adams efficiency is good, but again, it's not close. Defensively they aren't even close either. If we trade Gobert, it really doesn't matter if we have Adams or me at C. Both teams are going to stink. Same goes for Val. He's not a bad player, but ultimately useless. I am not a championship or bust guy...but even I think the amount of wins that would come from those players is useless.

I would focus younger players. I don't particularly like the BKN guys...but guys like Allen, Lavert, ect...those are players we should looking at. BKN is on the Kyrie+KD timeline which could blow up in flames tomorrow with how volatile those players are, they can't wait for their young guys to develop. At that point you'd probably want to move Bogey and it's not gonna happen but Ingles as well. The whole ship goes down if you move Gobert, there's no salvaging.

OTOH, if you trade Mitchell. You probably can get a player that is better than him.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#23 » by Mr B » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:08 pm

I’m telling you, the Mavs are going to target Gobert in 2021 free agency. If all of this is still brewing by then Dallas becomes a legit possibility for Gobert.


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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#24 » by stitches » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:10 pm

Mr B wrote:I’m telling you, the Mavs are going to target Gobert in 2021 free agency. If all of this is still brewing by then Dallas becomes a legit possibility for Gobert.


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Would Dallas give up something good to have him earlier? Does Dallas have anything good to give up?
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#25 » by KqWIN » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:31 pm

Gobert for Lavert+Allen+Prince
Bogdanovic for Aaron Gordon
Conley for bag of chips

Gives us a young enough team that the future is bright no matter what our win total is.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#26 » by stitches » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:48 pm

KP for Gobert?
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#27 » by babyjax13 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:56 pm

LoserX proposed Conley+Mitchell for Beal. They'd probably include Ish Smith, too. Don't hate that if we decided to trade Mitchell, and think that's the best option available if we went that route.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#28 » by Catchall » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:50 pm

stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter
?


Rudy was just made to look like a colossal ass hat on international tv. I doubt he's speaking with anyone right now.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#29 » by Catchall » Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:53 pm

For Rudy, I'll consider:

** Deandre Hunter, Clint Capella and a late 1st
** Lauri Markkanen plus Chicago's top-5 pick this year.
** Jaxson Hayes, Nickeil Alexander-Walker plus a protected 1st.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#30 » by Rauxcee » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:03 pm

I would Keep Gobert of the 2 contingnent on him not being the cancer (I know he had complaints and frustration with the selfish offensive play and I'm right there with him) and him not signing a supermax. If either of those are in play then blow up the team.

I love Mitchell, but streaky, volume shooting is not efficient and is easily replaceable. Also the Jazz will get much better value and pieces with him being traded than what they'll get with Gobert.

If one really has to be moved, the correct answer is to move both, have a fire sale on everyone else worth a damn and just start over.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#31 » by KqWIN » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:17 am

Still don't know why burning it all down must include trading Donovan. I get it, you want to rebuild. So why are you urgently trying to get rid of your 23 year old all star? So you can get a draft pick and pray you get someone as good as him?

Trades, transactions, and the draft are the most entertaining part of the league to some. I get it.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#32 » by Rauxcee » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:49 am

KqWIN wrote:Still don't know why burning it all down must include trading Donovan. I get it, you want to rebuild. So why are you urgently trying to get rid of your 23 year old all star? So you can get a draft pick and pray you get someone as good as him?

Trades, transactions, and the draft are the most entertaining part of the league to some. I get it.


I'm actually not a fan of the tear it down and start over because you aren't a contender.

The reason I said to also trade Donovan is because the Jazz aren't a playoff team without Gobert. Mitchell will sign an extension, but will ask for a trade before that contract is up due to the team rebuilding and not being ready to compete on his timetable. Trading him now gets us a higher return versus after he asks for a trade.

Obviously thats speculation on my part, but I don't think I'm far off with it.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#33 » by KqWIN » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 am

Rauxcee wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Still don't know why burning it all down must include trading Donovan. I get it, you want to rebuild. So why are you urgently trying to get rid of your 23 year old all star? So you can get a draft pick and pray you get someone as good as him?

Trades, transactions, and the draft are the most entertaining part of the league to some. I get it.


I'm actually not a fan of the tear it down and start over because you aren't a contender.

The reason I said to also trade Donovan is because the Jazz aren't a playoff team without Gobert. Mitchell will sign an extension, but will ask for a trade before that contract is up due to the team rebuilding and not being ready to compete on his timetable. Trading him now gets us a higher return versus after he asks for a trade.

Obviously thats speculation on my part, but I don't think I'm far off with it.


100% agreement that the Jazz are not a playoff team without Gobert. We've seen how bad we are without him, or when he doesn't play well...like a G-League team.

I also agree that Mitchell will likely sign an extension and ask for a trade. I guess it comes down to when you think you can get the best package. If there's a good package to be had for Mitchell right now, I have no objections to it. I think it will be very difficult to do so, however.

Getting a better young prospect for Mitchell just doesn't make a lot of sense for the other team. If they are better than Mitchell, they would just keep their prospects. It's just hard to find a situation where Mitchell gives a team more "win now" value while also giving us better long term value. I'm pretty sure this draft stinks as well. If there was Zion there and a team offers you that pick you do it, but there is nobody close to a Zion in this draft.

Mitchell is a player you rebuild around. He's not good enough that he'll put you out of tanking range. If Mitchell is moved, I actually think it makes more sense in a double down win now move with Gobert still here. He can be the centerpiece of a trade for a better player.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#34 » by SoCalJazzFan » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:44 am

I can see the concerns about Rudy getting a supermax contract, but without him, the Jazz just plain suck. If he isn't going to be an ongoing problem in the locker room, I think the Jazz have to stick with him.

I love DM, but give quite a few other players the offensive license he has and they could probably put up similar stats. You do have to wonder if he would stick around long term too.

A Conley and DM for CP3 and SGA and pick would be really enticing to me if the Jazz have to trade someone. I worry about trading both and blowing the team up. We could be the Kings for years to come hoping that the draft pans out.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#35 » by BigtimeNBAfan » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:31 pm

You work your ass off to heal the rift. The Jazz are not better getting rid of one of them. You are not going to get equal value for either. When the season ended the Jazz were 41-23 and 4th in the west. This is with a young up and coming team. Mitchell is still only in his 3rd year and will only get better, Gobert is only 27, Bogdanovic is older but still will have several good years left.

You don't blow this team up. The best chance the Jazz have at competing for the title in the next 5 years is with this core and adding pieces around them.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#36 » by BigtimeNBAfan » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:32 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter
?


Sounds like Rudy is the one to go, then. GSW fans and...well, I think just me, have agreed on Rudy for Wiggins + 2020 GSW 1st + 2021 MIN 1st.

Lol no way in hell Golden State trades away two top 5 picks (possibly number 1 picks) for Rudy Gobert.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#37 » by pickIBL » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:40 pm

Rudy is the unique talent here and the advanced stats darling. Very few have ever had the impact on the floor as rudy has.

The jazz conley f up is looking real bad. But it already happened. Rudy ought to get paid by the jazz. The jazz have donovan as he's on a rookie deal. If they dont air kiss and make up donovan gets traded. Or better yet he realizes he's undersized and not overly efficient... and says please and thank you to his coming big contract.

Either way Gobert might be a diva off the floor but on the floor he's the man.

Many donovans have laced it up in the NBA. Not many Osos have or ever will.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#38 » by pickIBL » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:41 pm

BigtimeNBAfan wrote:
babyjax13 wrote:
stitches wrote:
Read on Twitter
?


Sounds like Rudy is the one to go, then. GSW fans and...well, I think just me, have agreed on Rudy for Wiggins + 2020 GSW 1st + 2021 MIN 1st.

Lol no way in hell Golden State trades away two top 5 picks (possibly number 1 picks) for Rudy Gobert.


If I was them I would.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#39 » by BudTugly » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:11 pm

Why even have players? Just trot out Jazz bear and some dancers.

Trade everything in perpetuity.
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Re: The Athletic: one of Rudy or Donovan may be traded 

Post#40 » by jayu70 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:53 pm

Catchall wrote:For Rudy, I'll consider:

** Deandre Hunter, Clint Capella and a late 1st
** Lauri Markkanen plus Chicago's top-5 pick this year.
** Jaxson Hayes, Nickeil Alexander-Walker plus a protected 1st.

I think the Hawks pass.
Gobert has 1 year left. Capela has 2 years and I think he provides the defense and rebounding the Hawks need.
Hawks are currently slotted and the #4 pick and don't have a late 1st. (They traded it #16 for Capela)
I don't think the Hawks will look to move Hunter after a 1 year after giving up a lot to take him at #4 this past draft. SF's with his size and athleticism with 3 and D potential are premiums.

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