2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[8516knicks]

I think if we KNOW we can get Van Fleet in free agency at a decent rate, then we should go for a solid starter who already plays decently both sides 0 & D, not reach for a maybe higher ceiling like we did with Knox. We NEED SHOOTERS also (27 & 37>?). If we get FVF, have RJ, Mitch and 2 solid 2 way players who can shoot a bit even if they're not STARS we can maybe PAY/LURE/HYPNOTIZE a star in future FA to come join them.

[newyorker4ever]

Ok scrap the whole trade up scenario. Let's just say hypothetically what if the clippers had really sucked to end the season and our pick of theirs climbed from 27th to 15th and the knicks have the 8th and 15th going into the draft. If cole fell to 15th, I'd be willing to draft him there even if we took someone different 8th.

This is like saying if we had extra assets in 2017 we can't draft both frank 8th and then also trade assets to move up and get donovan mitchell or bam adebayo 13th or 14th just because we passed on them at 8th. I just don't understand this logic, You can draft two good players in the same draft and one will always be in front of the other

its not a 1 for 1 hypothitcal though because you would be asking to trading at least one maybe even another future 1st round pick to get up to that spot.

otherwise the scenario just seems unrealistic to me. If we had 8 and 15...I would be trading up from 8 to secure the guy I wanted in the 1st round the most and not worry about the leftovrers we get at 15.

Actually I agree with that. If we're 8th and we have the opportunity to trade 8, 27, a dallas pick, up to top 4 to get you know who, I'm doing it

You would trade 3 1st round picks to move up 4 spots in this draft that doesn't have any super star type talent in it? I know there's guys with plenty of talent in this draft but every single one of them has at least one huge question mark about them. There's no Zion or Ja in this draft.

[HEZI]

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

Would he really though? Because 19 year old Amare couldn't even get in the top 5 in his own draft and this is what his draft looked like

Yao Ming - 1st overall
Jay Williams - 2nd
Mike Dunleavy - 3rd
Drew Gooden - 4th
Nikolz Tshkitishvili - 5th
Dajuan Wagner - 6th
Nene - 7th
Chris Wilcox - 8th
Amare Stoudemire - 9th

Also, Amare wasn't shooting step back 3s and really came into the league raw but extremely athletic. Toppin looks more polished than Amare was when he first entered but that doesn't mean he's going to reach prime Amare level in the NBA but there is a possibility that he might especially if he gets paired up with the right PG.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

Would he really though? Because 19 year old Amare couldn't even get in the top 5 in his own draft and this is what his draft looked like

Yao Ming - 1st overall
Jay Williams - 2nd
Mike Dunleavy - 3rd
Drew Gooden - 4th
Nikolz Tshkitishvili - 5th
Dajuan Wagner - 6th
Nene - 7th
Chris Wilcox - 8th
Amare Stoudemire - 9th

Also, Amare wasn't shooting step back 3s and really came into the league raw but extremely athletic. Toppin looks more polished than Amare was when he first entered but that doesn't mean he's going to reach prime Amare level in the NBA but there is a possibility that he might especially if he gets paired up with the right PG.

I meant 20 year old Amare, or whenever he was a rookie/eligible to be drafted. He came straight out of HS so def was not fully polished. He always had a nice touch though and was just on another level athletically. He only slipped due to attitude /character concerns. I wanted the knicks to draft him that year. By the time he was Toppins age he was an allstar and one of the best players in the league. I just don't see a comparison.

[YungKnicks]

Not a big fan of Wiseman or Ball on this team... They are barely in my Top 5

My Knicks Draft Board:
1)A.Edwards
2)K.Hayes
3)O.Okongwu
4)Deni Avdija
5)T.Haliburton
6)Wiseman (we have MRob already)
7)C.Anthony
8)O.Toppin
9)L.Ball
10)Aaron Nesmith
11)Kira Lewis Jr
12)Devin Vassell
13)Jalen Smith
14)Jahmi'us Ramsey
15)Veron Carey Jr
16)Aleksej Pokuševski
17)Saddiq Bey
18)RJ Hampton
19)Paul Reed
20)Tyler Bey

Im a big fan of:
A.Edwards
Onyeka Okongwu (I think he is Bam day one, yup I said it)
Killian Hayes (Ain't no Frank, can see the D.Russ comps)
Kira Lewis Jr (reminds me of Tony Parker)
Aaron Nesmith (Buddy Hield lite, pre injury)
Jalen Smith (would be an awesome 5, two way player)
Jahmi'us Ramsey (his game is very similar to Bardley Beal)

[HEZI]

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

Would he really though? Because 19 year old Amare couldn't even get in the top 5 in his own draft and this is what his draft looked like

Yao Ming - 1st overall
Jay Williams - 2nd
Mike Dunleavy - 3rd
Drew Gooden - 4th
Nikolz Tshkitishvili - 5th
Dajuan Wagner - 6th
Nene - 7th
Chris Wilcox - 8th
Amare Stoudemire - 9th

Also, Amare wasn't shooting step back 3s and really came into the league raw but extremely athletic. Toppin looks more polished than Amare was when he first entered but that doesn't mean he's going to reach prime Amare level in the NBA but there is a possibility that he might especially if he gets paired up with the right PG.

I meant 20 year old Amare, or whenever he was a rookie/eligible to be drafted. He came straight out of HS so def was not fully polished. He always had a nice touch though and was just on another level athletically. He only slipped due to attitude /character concerns. I wanted the knicks to draft him that year. By the time he was Toppins age he was an allstar and one of the best players in the league. I just don't see a comparison.

Yeah but all those things would still be present now and this draft is stronger than that one. If he slipped down to 9th in that draft, why wouldn't he this draft if all those concerns were still present? I mean hindsight is 20/20 but we aren't talking about Amare after he entered the league, we are talking the HS prospect Amare. With maybe the exception of Yao because there is nobody in this draft that is as unique and as intriguing as he was, the rest of that list can easily be replaced by guys from this years draft so I don't see how that HS prospect Amare is still going 1st overall or even 2nd or 3rd overall when he didnt back in 2002.

The comparison with Obi to Amare is probably the easiest comparison in this whole draft. Not that it's a given that he's going to produce like Amare did in the NBA but just from watching him play it's the easiest comparison out of all the prospects out there he just plays like him, moves like him, finishes in similar fashion, is built like him, etc. Does Obi become a 25+ scorer in the NBA? That's up in the air, but as far as his closest comp, it's Amare.

[HEZI]

Markus Howard would probably be a top 5 pick back in 2002

[Zenzibar]

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

Got you.
First, just want to say that I saw Amare go at Carmelo when they were in high school. Carmelo went right back, it was really entertaining.

Amare was a phenom. For those wondering how good a prospect Stat was, check his 2002 draft bio by ESPN.
http://www.espn.com/nbadraft/tracker/player?playerId=18345


Amare Stoudemire
POWER FORWARD | (6-9, 245) | null

Notes: Amare Stoudemire has done most of his best work in "all-star" settings, dominating the Nike All-Star Camp last summer and then showing off as McDonald's All-Star after his senior season at Cypress Creek (Orlando, Fla.). Cypress Creek, however, was his sixth high school and while he has unquestionable talent, questions remain about the road he's taken to the NBA.

Averaged 30 points, 16 rebounds and six blocks a game for Cypress Creek. He was named Mr. Basketball in the state of Florida and was a finalist for the Naismith Award. There are few players at the high school level who were able to match up with him on both ends of the floor. His scoring touch, interior moves and passing ability gives him a variety of options each time the ball lands in his hands.

College, however, was never in the cards, not after his mother received cash from Nike's George Raveling. Still, Stoudemire should be the first high school player selected this year, most likely in the lottery by one of several NBA teams who covet his "potential" and size.

Positives: Stoudemire is a big-time athlete, who has a knack for rebounding. He can get out and run better than most players his size and already has a typical NBA body. He's a raw athlete who scouts have fallen in love with since he started talking about skipping high school and going straight to the League.

Negatives: The question remains, will Stoudemire pick up the nuances of the game and handle the intricacies of the NBA. Was he ruined by the system and will he be committed to become an NBA player and put the time in and work at his game. The Outside the Lines and HBO stories on Stoudemire didnt help his image.

Summary: Stoudemire has the upside that scouts covet and he's a lock for the lottery. Everyone is always afraid they'll miss out on a potential Tracy McGrady or Kevin Garnett

[Zenzibar]

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

Would he really though? Because 19 year old Amare couldn't even get in the top 5 in his own draft and this is what his draft looked like

Yao Ming - 1st overall
Jay Williams - 2nd
Mike Dunleavy - 3rd
Drew Gooden - 4th
Nikolz Tshkitishvili - 5th
Dajuan Wagner - 6th
Nene - 7th
Chris Wilcox - 8th
Amare Stoudemire - 9th

Also, Amare wasn't shooting step back 3s and really came into the league raw but extremely athletic. Toppin looks more polished than Amare was when he first entered but that doesn't mean he's going to reach prime Amare level in the NBA but there is a possibility that he might especially if he gets paired up with the right PG.

Exactly and that brings me to an interesting observation.
We need a point guard and there are, according to the consensus here, 2 mayyyybeee 3 really good guards in the draft. Personally, I like Elfrid Payton over any of them. He's big, defensively tough and was possibly playing the best ball of his career at the end of the season, with a few big number triple doubles.

If Payton works and develops a 3 pointer, he'll be nice and ahead of the other flawed guards in this draft. There's where Toppin comes in.
If the mocks drift Obi Toppin to around 5-6 and we're there, we need to snatch this kid. He's scoring ability will translate and his defensive short comings addressed. With a team of Kenny Atkinson and Mike Miller, they can transform this kid by year 2 into a beast. He'll have to battle it out with Randle at the 4, but timing is just right. Either let Randle expire or move his nearly 20/10 game at the trading deadline and pick up another future 1st.
Slide Obi at the 4, let's see where Knox or RJ are with at the 3. Frank and Payton at the guards. Again, Payton HAS to work on that 3.

[Zenzibar]

its not a 1 for 1 hypothitcal though because you would be asking to trading at least one maybe even another future 1st round pick to get up to that spot.

otherwise the scenario just seems unrealistic to me. If we had 8 and 15...I would be trading up from 8 to secure the guy I wanted in the 1st round the most and not worry about the leftovrers we get at 15.

Actually I agree with that. If we're 8th and we have the opportunity to trade 8, 27, a dallas pick, up to top 4 to get you know who, I'm doing it

You would trade 3 1st round picks to move up 4 spots in this draft that doesn't have any super star type talent in it? I know there's guys with plenty of talent in this draft but every single one of them has at least one huge question mark about them. There's no Zion or Ja in this draft.

My boy rob, started drinking early today.

[Zenzibar]

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

Would he really though? Because 19 year old Amare couldn't even get in the top 5 in his own draft and this is what his draft looked like

Yao Ming - 1st overall
Jay Williams - 2nd
Mike Dunleavy - 3rd
Drew Gooden - 4th
Nikolz Tshkitishvili - 5th
Dajuan Wagner - 6th
Nene - 7th
Chris Wilcox - 8th
Amare Stoudemire - 9th

Also, Amare wasn't shooting step back 3s and really came into the league raw but extremely athletic. Toppin looks more polished than Amare was when he first entered but that doesn't mean he's going to reach prime Amare level in the NBA but there is a possibility that he might especially if he gets paired up with the right PG.

I meant 20 year old Amare, or whenever he was a rookie/eligible to be drafted. He came straight out of HS so def was not fully polished. He always had a nice touch though and was just on another level athletically. He only slipped due to attitude /character concerns. I wanted the knicks to draft him that year. By the time he was Toppins age he was an allstar and one of the best players in the league. I just don't see a comparison.

Amare shot .200 from 3s in his first 2 seasons and .236 for his career. Obi Toppin is shooting .417 from downtown.

[RHODEY]

I would def draft young Amare. 19 year old Amare would be the #1 pick in this draft. Obi is not close to Amare. Not that he's bad, but hes not on that level. I would probably be disappointed if we took him though since i dont think he's the best player for us.

Would he really though? Because 19 year old Amare couldn't even get in the top 5 in his own draft and this is what his draft looked like

Yao Ming - 1st overall
Jay Williams - 2nd
Mike Dunleavy - 3rd
Drew Gooden - 4th
Nikolz Tshkitishvili - 5th
Dajuan Wagner - 6th
Nene - 7th
Chris Wilcox - 8th
Amare Stoudemire - 9th

Also, Amare wasn't shooting step back 3s and really came into the league raw but extremely athletic. Toppin looks more polished than Amare was when he first entered but that doesn't mean he's going to reach prime Amare level in the NBA but there is a possibility that he might especially if he gets paired up with the right PG.

I meant 20 year old Amare, or whenever he was a rookie/eligible to be drafted. He came straight out of HS so def was not fully polished. He always had a nice touch though and was just on another level athletically. He only slipped due to attitude /character concerns. I wanted the knicks to draft him that year. By the time he was Toppins age he was an allstar and one of the best players in the league. I just don't see a comparison.

Prime Amare - capable of dropping 42 on a Prime Tmmy Duncan. I do see a some Amare in OBi's game - but he's a little smaller-

Watch on YouTube

[HerSports85]

Haven’t watched much of Cole, plan on it this weekend. But from what I have seen is that with him you’ll definitely need a high iq playmaker at the 2 or 3. I don’t trust him running the team.


Right now I rather take Kira Lewis

[malik959]

Haven’t watched much of Cole, plan on it this weekend. But from what I have seen is that with him you’ll definitely need a high iq playmaker at the 2 or 3. I don’t trust him running the team.


Right now I rather take Kira Lewis

That's where Frank comes in, you slot him at the two and RJ at the three. That's 3 ball handlers right there.

[robillionaire]

its not a 1 for 1 hypothitcal though because you would be asking to trading at least one maybe even another future 1st round pick to get up to that spot.

otherwise the scenario just seems unrealistic to me. If we had 8 and 15...I would be trading up from 8 to secure the guy I wanted in the 1st round the most and not worry about the leftovrers we get at 15.

Actually I agree with that. If we're 8th and we have the opportunity to trade 8, 27, a dallas pick, up to top 4 to get you know who, I'm doing it

You would trade 3 1st round picks to move up 4 spots in this draft that doesn't have any super star type talent in it? I know there's guys with plenty of talent in this draft but every single one of them has at least one huge question mark about them. There's no Zion or Ja in this draft.

This is more a testament to how much confidence I have that LaMelo will be a great player. My reputation is on the line so come back and dunk on me if he sucks and I’ll own it, I’ve been wrong before I’ll be wrong again. I think ultimately he’ll be better than Ja Morant. And I loved Ja last year. Anyway, the 27th is pretty much a borderline 2nd and so will the Dallas pick. They will be very late 1sts. I’m not high enough on anybody who is supposedly going to be there in this draft at 27

Beyond that, we will eventually have too many young players on the team, we won’t be able to re-sign all of them and soon we will need to consolidate either the players or combine picks out of necessity

Just get me my PG man

Edit: Ja had question marks, some ppl questioned his ability to play defense and also his outside shooting, shooting form, ability to finish at the rim through contact and midrange floaters. A lot of the same questions you get with lamelo tbh. At the same time you can tell when a dude has some skills that can’t just be taught and both of those dudes have a special kind of vision

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Triple C]

Haven’t watched much of Cole, plan on it this weekend. But from what I have seen is that with him you’ll definitely need a high iq playmaker at the 2 or 3. I don’t trust him running the team.


Right now I rather take Kira Lewis

That's where Frank comes in, you slot him at the two and RJ at the three. That's 3 ball handlers right there.

Wood at the four and Mitch at five

[robillionaire]

Who cares? He pushes dudes around back and would be a match up nightmare for opponents. He's a stud. He's 22 and again I ask, who cares? He's one month older than Mitchell Robinson, less than a year older than Frank Ntilikina and just 2 years older than RJ Barrett. He's 22 not 32 lets get real.

Point about his age is the fact that he's dominating younger less physically mature players now... he'll be facing grown men when he gets to the league. Regarding who cares? I do if he ends up being the next Ends Kanter 2.0 from the PF position.

Sounds like Amare 2.0.
So, would you draft Amare 2.0?

Yes. Prime Amare like when he was on the Suns was great player. Injuries really brought him down. If I knew he was guaranteed to be Prime Amare I’d definitely take him. Now if he’s washed up amare 2.0 I’ll pass on that

[knickstape21]

Read on Twitter

While most here don't seem to want CA, he does have the best shooting mechanics of the PGs. And while shooting alone doesn't make him the best choice.... I will say this: I'm SO TIRED of watching my Knicks NOT having a good shooting PG. Serious question: when is the last time the Knicks had a PG that was feared by opposing teams to hit from deep and create space for others? Felton? Lin? Billups? Burke? Mudiay? Robinson? Prigs? Kidd? Murry? Calderon? Eisley? Jack? Sessions? Payton? Smith? Frank?

Personally, while Cole is not my top pick (if we pick 6th) as I like Deni.. but I wouldn't be upset if we took Anthony

The last point guard I actually felt confident shooting an open 3 pointer?

This is embarrassing.....

Pablo Prigioni.

[knickstape21]

MRob better step up big .... or he's about to be a career part time player. The NBA is moving to bigs who can shoot from outside, put the ball on the floor, pass and play defense. 5 tool guys...

Players like Onyeka Okongwu and Jalen Smith, two of my favorite players, are about to be the new normal at the C/5 spot

Okongwu can shoot from the outside?!

Calling it now. Okongwu HUGE bust relative to draft position.

[Juco24]

Read on Twitter

While most here don't seem to want CA, he does have the best shooting mechanics of the PGs. And while shooting alone doesn't make him the best choice.... I will say this: I'm SO TIRED of watching my Knicks NOT having a good shooting PG. Serious question: when is the last time the Knicks had a PG that was feared by opposing teams to hit from deep and create space for others? Felton? Lin? Billups? Burke? Mudiay? Robinson? Prigs? Kidd? Murry? Calderon? Eisley? Jack? Sessions? Payton? Smith? Frank?

Personally, while Cole is not my top pick (if we pick 6th) as I like Deni.. but I wouldn't be upset if we took Anthony

The last point guard I actually felt confident shooting an open 3 pointer?

This is embarrassing.....

Pablo Prigioni.

Embarrassing is right