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2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1221 » by malik959 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:55 pm

robillionaire wrote:
blanko wrote:
malik959 wrote:Yeah the Knicks have done so much with Maybe players
I got news for ya... this is an "all maybe" draft

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agreed. this draft has more unknowns and maybes than any draft in memory. Now there's probably no combine or anything. the whole thing is a massive crapshoot. The only thing that isn't a maybe to me is LaMelo's vision passing and playmaking ability which will undoubtedly translate to the nba level which is why I'd be comfortable banking at least on that, but he also has unknowns, let's go down the top 10 list of tankathon's big board

lamelo - played 12 games in NBL, injured
okongwu - played all season until virus, maybe we know who he is
hayes - mysterious man from the bundesliga
wiseman - played 3 games and quit ncaa
haliburton - season ending injury
toppin - played all season until virus, still questions about defense, is 22
edwards - played all season until virus, still questions about efficiency
hampton - NBL and got injured
avdija - grainy highlight footage from high school gymnasium in tel aviv
pokusevski - grainy highlight footage from a barn in greece

cole is 17th on there now so I think that says enough but he also got injured a decent chunk of the season


I agree this draft does have a lot of maybes, but the biggest maybe Melo has is the biggest issue we have with Frank, Knox, DSJ, Payton, and Barrett who has shown improvement. People have given up on these players because of their shooting percentage, but say Melo is worth a high lotto pic. He takes the worst shots in the game as if they were part of the game plan. In a league where Brooks and Josh Boone look like they are great players, Melo shoots 25% from three yet he takes about 8 3's per game. His defense is worse than Kevin's but people act like that can be over looked. So for every problem we have with our players people are ready to jump ship yet people want to take a chance on a player who's advance stats in shooting were worse than our own when they were in college.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1222 » by WargamesX » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:06 pm

malik959 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
blanko wrote:I got news for ya... this is an "all maybe" draft

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


agreed. this draft has more unknowns and maybes than any draft in memory. Now there's probably no combine or anything. the whole thing is a massive crapshoot. The only thing that isn't a maybe to me is LaMelo's vision passing and playmaking ability which will undoubtedly translate to the nba level which is why I'd be comfortable banking at least on that, but he also has unknowns, let's go down the top 10 list of tankathon's big board

lamelo - played 12 games in NBL, injured
okongwu - played all season until virus, maybe we know who he is
hayes - mysterious man from the bundesliga
wiseman - played 3 games and quit ncaa
haliburton - season ending injury
toppin - played all season until virus, still questions about defense, is 22
edwards - played all season until virus, still questions about efficiency
hampton - NBL and got injured
avdija - grainy highlight footage from high school gymnasium in tel aviv
pokusevski - grainy highlight footage from a barn in greece

cole is 17th on there now so I think that says enough but he also got injured a decent chunk of the season


I agree this draft does have a lot of maybes, but the biggest maybe Melo has is the biggest issue we have with Frank, Knox, DSJ, Payton, and Barrett who has shown improvement. People have given up on these players because of their shooting percentage, but say Melo is worth a high lotto pic. He takes the worst shots in the game as if they were part of the game plan. In a league where Brooks and Josh Boone look like they are great players, Melo shoots 25% from three yet he takes about 8 3's per game. His defense is worse than Kevin's but people act like that can be over looked. So for every problem we have with our players people are ready to jump ship yet people want to take a chance on a player who's advance stats in shooting were worse than our own when they were in college.


I honestly don’t think the knicks are targeting Melo and aren’t even considering him until the draft and we move up. You are right he would present a lot of problems due to just the lack of efficient outside shooting, but they would have to weigh if they felt it could be corrected to the point he could be a star.

I’ve said this in other post but this draft is so chaotic I really feel good talent is going to drop just because outside of say the top 10 there doesn’t seem to be a consensus on where everyone will drop.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1223 » by robillionaire » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:16 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Karim Mane/Tre Jones
Jalen Green/Frank
RJ Barrett/Iggy
Julius Randle/Knox
James Wiseman/Mitch

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u forgot emoni
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1224 » by Thepaintismine » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:16 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Read on Twitter


some info from Berman about what the Knicks are thinking about with the 27th pick. Sounds like they might want to try to trade up. We're lucky that Miller wasn't the coach from the beginning of the year because we'd be 4 games out of the playoffs.


We got a whole lot of draft capital. I guess we see where things go and then move up during the draft if a playa they like slides.
Nice to have so many picks for a change.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1225 » by robillionaire » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:31 pm

malik959 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
blanko wrote:I got news for ya... this is an "all maybe" draft

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


agreed. this draft has more unknowns and maybes than any draft in memory. Now there's probably no combine or anything. the whole thing is a massive crapshoot. The only thing that isn't a maybe to me is LaMelo's vision passing and playmaking ability which will undoubtedly translate to the nba level which is why I'd be comfortable banking at least on that, but he also has unknowns, let's go down the top 10 list of tankathon's big board

lamelo - played 12 games in NBL, injured
okongwu - played all season until virus, maybe we know who he is
hayes - mysterious man from the bundesliga
wiseman - played 3 games and quit ncaa
haliburton - season ending injury
toppin - played all season until virus, still questions about defense, is 22
edwards - played all season until virus, still questions about efficiency
hampton - NBL and got injured
avdija - grainy highlight footage from high school gymnasium in tel aviv
pokusevski - grainy highlight footage from a barn in greece

cole is 17th on there now so I think that says enough but he also got injured a decent chunk of the season


I agree this draft does have a lot of maybes, but the biggest maybe Melo has is the biggest issue we have with Frank, Knox, DSJ, Payton, and Barrett who has shown improvement. People have given up on these players because of their shooting percentage, but say Melo is worth a high lotto pic. He takes the worst shots in the game as if they were part of the game plan. In a league where Brooks and Josh Boone look like they are great players, Melo shoots 25% from three yet he takes about 8 3's per game. His defense is worse than Kevin's but people act like that can be over looked. So for every problem we have with our players people are ready to jump ship yet people want to take a chance on a player who's advance stats in shooting were worse than our own when they were in college.


all fair criticisms and fwiw I wouldn't give up on frank and knox yet.

I feel like the 25% thing is on a small sample size and not representative of his true ability to make shots. I base this on the idea that he shot 34% from 3 in HS on a high shot volume which is a great percentage and just the sheer confidence that he has in his ability to shoot them 8 times a game.

Luka shoots 31.8% from 3 on 9.1 attempts per game and nobody is going to tell him to stop shooting and the same will be the case with LaMelo. He got off to a really bad start the first several games, let's chalk it up to nerves of playing in a foreign country against adults but his shot was starting to come around and if you look at the 2nd half of his very short 13 total games his last 6 games in the NBL he shot 31.2% from 3 and that's not cherry picking because I included the 1-11 effort as well. Conclusion: he will be able to at minimum make low 30% in 3s on 7-8 attempts a game and that will make him considered to be a good shooter, like Luka. change my mind. :lol:

Also note that while they aren't the same person his brother shot 38.3% from 3 last year on 6.5 attempts per game

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1226 » by finestrg » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:46 pm

Check this out: https://wfan.radio.com/articles/news/nba-rumors-knicks-feel-they-can-trade-for-disgruntled-star

I dunno fellas.. I can't believe even one person in our front office thinks this. Can't believe there's even one guy still with the "quick fix" mentality.. How has this thinking served us in the past? Not good, right? It's just not how you build a team the right way imo. Not even sure who exactly they might be thinking about -- someone like Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, or DeMar DeRozan? Those are the names I'm hearing linked to the Knicks.. Forget those guys, man. DeRozan isn't Michael Jordan, not even close, and even Jordan needed a good supporting cast. Mitchell and Gobert are on the same team (supposedly don't like each other anymore), and they're not even there yet..

Up me, I'm concentrating on this draft to keep building the foundation. That's got to be step 1. I have my eye on a few of players in this draft that I've talked about that I think would go a long way toward building a great foundation:

(1) Daniel Oturu -- obviously, if we jump uo into the top 3, you have to consider Wiseman or Toppin. But even Wiseman -- who hear is convinced he's the next David Robinson? I mean based on what exactly?? Yeah, he had a good first couple of games, then got suspended, then elected to not return to school. There's just no body of work there to go on, but ok i get it, he'd have to get a long look with a top-3 pick. I get it. Toppin too. But who are we kidding -- we're the NY Knicks, there's no way we're jumping up 3 spots from 6 to 2 or 3. lol.. So I'm going with we're gonna pick at 6. To me, this dude Oturu is worth pick 6, in this draft or any draft. 6'10" 240, legit center, long, and plays both sides of the ball and impacts all areas you'd expect him to. I know we already have Mitch and I like him but fear he'll never evolve into a complete big man. He'll do what he does and do it well (protect the rim, rebound some, and convert many lobs for dunks). Oturu's a different animal entirely. This kid has those elements plus he's got a budding inside game, can pop in the mid-range and has a very nice looking 3-pt shot for someone that big. With enough touches, I think this guy has 20/10/2 potential. No question in my mind. Who wouldn't want that/what team couldn't us that? As much as I like Mitch, i don't ever see him as a consistent 20/10/2 guy, putting a team on his back a-la Pat Ewing, making all-star teams, etc. I think this kid's worth pick 6, esp. with Wiseman and Toppin off the board. It's about turning every position possible into a net plus -- now Oturu TOGETHER with Robinson -- that's a very good tandem that I'd put up against any team's 5 man duo in the league, so I'd then see the 5 spot as a net plus. I'd be shocked if Oturu didn't pan out into a better version of Al Horford.

(2) At 25, I really like Saddiq Bey. I'm warming up to Aaron Nesmith here but Bey is still my guy. I see Nesmith as more of a 2G; but Bey at 6'8" 220-ish is a legit SF with all the tools. You'd probably expect a little more rebounding from him just looking at the numbers, but that aside, I love his game. Deadly shooter, probably one of 2 of the best shooters in this draft (the other being Nesmith), but I think we should be coveting a SF more. My plan would be to resign both Damyean Dotson and Zo Trier and let them handle the SG spot. I think that would be a good duo there and adequately cover that spot--Rose just needs to get both back on board. I'd then move Barrett over to starting SF and grab Bey in this draft to back him up. So now in my mind -- Oturu/Robinson is a plus at the 5 for years to come, Dot and Trier is a plus at SG, and Barrett/Bey would be a plus at the 3 -- that'd be 3 key positions with good youth/depth/production, that's how I continue to look at it. Only thing I question is if Bey will even be there at 25 -- I don't think he will be. So I think I'd look to use 25 and another asset or 2, whether that be a future draft asset, Frank, DSjr., Knox, Brazdekis, the rights to Sanon/Labeyrie and or Jaramaz, cash, to move up to at least 20 to have a legit shot at this guy. Again, DYNAMITE shooter with more to create for himself in other ways as well.

(3) I understand we need help at the point, I just don't see a star with any of these PGs projected to go top 10. I just don't see the game-changer. In fact, with guys like Ball and Anthony specifically, I see the chance for disappointment because everyone will see them as a game-changer... Personally, I see a lot of value much lower in this draft, specifically with a guy like Devon Dotson. He's the guy I'd target at 38, again using an asset or two to move up a little to secure him. The drawback: he's got small arms, only shot 31% from 3 (down from 36% the year before), and historically Kansas players haven't panned out well in the draft. That aside, i like his game. He got great speed, is strong/a good finisher (good 2-pt %), I like the 3-pt stroke even though the results were a bit low this year, he runs the offense well and he's got quick hands/good instincts defensively. I think he's great value at 38 or a bit higher and a guy worth targeting. Another guy I want a real good look at is this Issuf Sanon. I've seen a lot of tape and I like what I see. This kid reminds me of John Starks a lot. Not sure if he's a pure point (he feels more like a combo guard), but his game's got John Starks written all over it. Just need to see if he can run an offense, even if it's just part time. We need to see that, along with maintaining himself as a scoring threat -- really looking forward to Summer League to take a good look at this guy (if we even have a Summer league, who knows).

(4) The 4th player I'd like to see the Knicks think about targeting in this draft (would have to acquire another pick somehow) is Jalen Smith from Maryland, another guy I've talked about. This dude is 6'10", only about 220, but strong, extremely quick and agile, A FANTASTIC rim protector, excellent rebounder and he's a very good shooter from distance as well. He looks suprisingly strong too -- check out the tape of all his thunder dunks and how he's able to body up down low with players bigger than him. I'm not sure where this guy get picked (I've seen anywhere from the low teens to the 2nd round) but with any available asset(s) left over, I'd look to deal ourselves in for a crack at this guy. Guys like Portis and Gibson probably are only here next year, and that's even debatable (Portis has a team option for over $15mm and Gibson can be waived by a specific date in June and only cost the Knicks $1mm -- I believe Payton, Ellington and Bullock are all in the same boat (can be waived by this date in June and only cost $1mm). Even Randle doesn't feel long-term and could be gone if we found a taker. I'd love to get someone young, talented and cheap to beef up the 4 spot as well.

What I'd love to see:
1. Resign Dotson and Trier to man the SG spot. We could do a hell of a lot worse. So one spot instantly fortified here by two semi-already proven players..

2. Grab Daniel Oturu for his legit 20/10/2 production potential in the middle.Together with Mitch, the middle is now fortified for years to come..

3. Move Barrett to starting 3, draft Saddiq Bey to back him up. Aaron Nesmith at 6'6" with that pure stroke is a possibility here too. 3-spot fortified..

4. Put ourselves in position to draft Devon Dotson as a PG in waiting after another year of Payton/DSJr./Frank to see if any of those 3 finally rise to the occasion and seize an opportunity. If not, this guy Dotson would be a great understudy PG prospect in waiting to target late in this draft -- get me this kid, stash him in Westchester and allow him to marinate for the year unless called upon (he'd probably be more of a 2021-22 option -- that's ok, groom him as such). I think the potential's there to be as good as Cole Anthony, who I think is getting hyped to a ridiculous level. My thinking -- we get Cole Anthony at 6, we're set up for some disappointment because everyone would be expecting a game-changer. We get Devon Dotson around 30 or so however, i feel we'll be pleasantly surprised at the value we'd be getting there.

5. Instead of trading all assets for "a disgruntled star," use those assets to go after a 4th draft pick and target Jalen Smith as a quality understudy PF for 2021-22, when guy like Portis and Gibson will be gone (Randle too maybe).
6. If not traded to move up/acquire an additional pick in this draft, give Issuf Sanon a long look in Summer League and see if he's the next John Starks.

Forget this disgruntled star nonsense. That serves us no purpose right now. Start with this draft and build the foundation the right way. Let potential FAs look at a re-tooled roster and see the depth, the youth and the potential.

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1227 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:53 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Karim Mane/Tre Jones
Jalen Green/Frank
RJ Barrett/Iggy
Julius Randle/Knox
James Wiseman/Mitch

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u forgot emoni

Karim Mane/Tre Jones
Jalen Green/Frank
RJ Barrett/Iggy
Emoni Bates/Randle
James Wiseman/Mitch

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1228 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:08 pm

finestrg wrote:Check this out: https://wfan.radio.com/articles/news/nba-rumors-knicks-feel-they-can-trade-for-disgruntled-star

I dunno fellas.. I can't believe even one person in our front office thinks this. Can't believe there's even one guy still with the "quick fix" mentality.. How has this thinking served us in the past? Not good, right? It's just not how you build a team the right way imo. Not even sure who exactly they might be thinking about -- someone like Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, or DeMar DeRozan? Those are the names I'm hearing linked to the Knicks.. Forget those guys, man. DeRozan isn't Michael Jordan, not even close, and even Jordan needed a good supporting cast. Mitchell and Gobert are on the same team (supposedly don't like each other anymore), and they're not even there yet..

Up me, I'm concentrating on this draft to keep building the foundation. That's got to be step 1. I have my eye on a few of players in this draft that I've talked about that I think would go a long way toward building a great foundation:

(1) Daniel Oturu -- obviously, if we jump uo into the top 3, you have to consider Wiseman or Toppin. But even Wiseman -- who hear is convinced he's the next David Robinson? I mean based on what exactly?? Yeah, he had a good first couple of games, then got suspended, then elected to not return to school. There's just no body of work there to go on, but ok i get it, he'd have to get a long look with a top-3 pick. I get it. Toppin too. But who are we kidding -- we're the NY Knicks, there's no way we're jumping up 3 spots from 6 to 2 or 3. lol.. So I'm going with we're gonna pick at 6. To me, this dude Oturu is worth pick 6, in this draft or any draft. 6'10" 240, legit center, long, and plays both sides of the ball and impacts all areas you'd expect him to. I know we already have Mitch and I like him but fear he'll never evolve into a complete big man. He'll do what he does and do it well (protect the rim, rebound some, and convert many lobs for dunks). Oturu's a different animal entirely. This kid has those elements plus he's got a budding inside game, can pop in the mid-range and has a very nice looking 3-pt shot for someone that big. With enough touches, I think this guy has 20/10/2 potential. No question in my mind. Who wouldn't want that/what team couldn't us that? As much as I like Mitch, i don't ever see him as a consistent 20/10/2 guy, putting a team on his back a-la Pat Ewing, making all-star teams, etc. I think this kid's worth pick 6, esp. with Wiseman and Toppin off the board. It's about turning every position possible into a net plus -- now Oturu TOGETHER with Robinson -- that's a very good tandem that I'd put up against any team's 5 man duo in the league, so I'd then see the 5 spot as a net plus. I'd be shocked if Oturu didn't pan out into a better version of Al Horford.

(2) At 25, I really like Saddiq Bey. I'm warming up to Aaron Nesmith here but Bey is still my guy. I see Nesmith as more of a 2G; but Bey at 6'8" 220-ish is a legit SF with all the tools. You'd probably expect a little more rebounding from him just looking at the numbers, but that aside, I love his game. Deadly shooter, probably one of 2 of the best shooters in this draft (the other being Nesmith), but I think we should be coveting a SF more. My plan would be to resign both Damyean Dotson and Zo Trier and let them handle the SG spot. I think that would be a good duo there and adequately cover that spot--Rose just needs to get both back on board. I'd then move Barrett over to starting SF and grab Bey in this draft to back him up. So now in my mind -- Oturu/Robinson is a plus at the 5 for years to come, Dot and Trier is a plus at SG, and Barrett/Bey would be a plus at the 3 -- that'd be 3 key positions with good youth/depth/production, that's how I continue to look at it. Only thing I question is if Bey will even be there at 25 -- I don't think he will be. So I think I'd look to use 25 and another asset or 2, whether that be a future draft asset, Frank, DSjr., Knox, Brazdekis, the rights to Sanon/Labeyrie and or Jaramaz, cash, to move up to at least 20 to have a legit shot at this guy. Again, DYNAMITE shooter with more to create for himself in other ways as well.

(3) I understand we need help at the point, I just don't see a star with any of these PGs projected to go top 10. I just don't see the game-changer. In fact, with guys like Ball and Anthony specifically, I see the chance for disappointment because everyone will see them as a game-changer... Personally, I see a lot of value much lower in this draft, specifically with a guy like Devon Dotson. He's the guy I'd target at 38, again using an asset or two to move up a little to secure him. The drawback: he's got small arms, only shot 31% from 3 (down from 36% the year before), and historically Kansas players haven't panned out well in the draft. That aside, i like his game. He got great speed, is strong/a good finisher (good 2-pt %), I like the 3-pt stroke even though the results were a bit low this year, he runs the offense well and he's got quick hands/good instincts defensively. I think he's great value at 38 or a bit higher and a guy worth targeting. Another guy I want a real good look at is this Issuf Sanon. I've seen a lot of tape and I like what I see. This kid reminds me of John Starks a lot. Not sure if he's a pure point (he feels more like a combo guard), but his game's got John Starks written all over it. Just need to see if he can run an offense, even if it's just part time. We need to see that, along with maintaining himself as a scoring threat -- really looking forward to Summer League to take a good look at this guy (if we even have a Summer league, who knows).

(4) The 4th player I'd like to see the Knicks think about targeting in this draft (would have to acquire another pick somehow) is Jalen Smith from Maryland, another guy I've talked about. This dude is 6'10", only about 220, but strong, extremely quick and agile, A FANTASTIC rim protector, excellent rebounder and he's a very good shooter from distance as well. He looks suprisingly strong too -- check out the tape of all his thunder dunks and how he's able to body up down low with players bigger than him. I'm not sure where this guy get picked (I've seen anywhere from the low teens to the 2nd round) but with any available asset(s) left over, I'd look to deal ourselves in for a crack at this guy. Guys like Portis and Gibson probably are only here next year, and that's even debatable (Portis has a team option for over $15mm and Gibson can be waived by a specific date in June and only cost the Knicks $1mm -- I believe Payton, Ellington and Bullock are all in the same boat (can be waived by this date in June and only cost $1mm). Even Randle doesn't feel long-term and could be gone if we found a taker. I'd love to get someone young, talented and cheap to beef up the 4 spot as well.

my plan for what it's worth:
1. Resign Dotson and Trier to man the SG spot. We could do a hell of a lot worse. So one spot instantly fortified here by two semi-already proven players..
2. Move Barrett to starting 3, draft Saddiq Bey to back him up. Aaron Nesmith at 6'6" with that pure stroke is a possibility here too. 3-spot fortified..
3. Grab Daniel Oturu for his legit 20/10/2 production potential in the middle.Together with Mitch, the middle is now fortified for years to come..
4. Put ourselves in position to draft Devon Dotson as a PG in waiting after another year of Payton/DSJr./Frank to see if any of those 3 finally rise to the occasion and seize an opportunity. If not, this guy Dotson would be a great understudy PG prospect in waiting to target late in this draft -- get me this kid, stash him in Westchester and allow him to marinate for the year unless called upon (he'd probably be more of a 2021-22 option -- that's ok, groom him as such). I think the potential's there to be as good as Cole Anthony, who I think is getting hyped to a ridiculous level. My thinking -- we get Cole Anthony at 6, we're set up for some disappointment because everyone would be expecting a game-changer. We get Devon Dotson around 30 or so however, i feel we'll be pleasantly surprised at the value we'd be getting there.
5. Instead of trading all assets for "a disgruntled star," use those assets to go after a 4th draft pick and target Jalen Smith as a quality understudy PF for 2021-22, when guy like Portis and Gibson will be gone (Randle too maybe).
6. If not traded to move up/acquire an additional pick in this draft, give Issuf Sanon a long look in Summer League and see if he's the next John Starks.

Forget this disgruntled star nonsense. That serves us no purpose right now. Start with this draft and build the foundation the right way. Let potential FAs look at a re-tooled roster and see the depth, the youth and the potential.

Field of Dreams -- "If you build it, he will come." Build it first!!!

Daniel Oturu reminds me of Wendell Carter Jr. A solid player with minimal star potential. Wiseman, Toppin, Onyeka have a lot more potential than him
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1229 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:21 pm

Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1230 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:29 pm

Frank's our PG
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1231 » by robillionaire » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:35 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
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he seems to have a high turnover rate as well. his shooting numbers look great in the 10 games he played in germany both from 3 and free throws but if you look at the prior year in Cholet on a larger sample size they're pretty bad, so I'm not sure what to trust there either. Honestly have no idea what we should expect out of this guy but I plan to watch more game footage
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1232 » by robillionaire » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:36 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
finestrg wrote:Check this out: https://wfan.radio.com/articles/news/nba-rumors-knicks-feel-they-can-trade-for-disgruntled-star

I dunno fellas.. I can't believe even one person in our front office thinks this. Can't believe there's even one guy still with the "quick fix" mentality.. How has this thinking served us in the past? Not good, right? It's just not how you build a team the right way imo. Not even sure who exactly they might be thinking about -- someone like Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert, or DeMar DeRozan? Those are the names I'm hearing linked to the Knicks.. Forget those guys, man. DeRozan isn't Michael Jordan, not even close, and even Jordan needed a good supporting cast. Mitchell and Gobert are on the same team (supposedly don't like each other anymore), and they're not even there yet..

Up me, I'm concentrating on this draft to keep building the foundation. That's got to be step 1. I have my eye on a few of players in this draft that I've talked about that I think would go a long way toward building a great foundation:

(1) Daniel Oturu -- obviously, if we jump uo into the top 3, you have to consider Wiseman or Toppin. But even Wiseman -- who hear is convinced he's the next David Robinson? I mean based on what exactly?? Yeah, he had a good first couple of games, then got suspended, then elected to not return to school. There's just no body of work there to go on, but ok i get it, he'd have to get a long look with a top-3 pick. I get it. Toppin too. But who are we kidding -- we're the NY Knicks, there's no way we're jumping up 3 spots from 6 to 2 or 3. lol.. So I'm going with we're gonna pick at 6. To me, this dude Oturu is worth pick 6, in this draft or any draft. 6'10" 240, legit center, long, and plays both sides of the ball and impacts all areas you'd expect him to. I know we already have Mitch and I like him but fear he'll never evolve into a complete big man. He'll do what he does and do it well (protect the rim, rebound some, and convert many lobs for dunks). Oturu's a different animal entirely. This kid has those elements plus he's got a budding inside game, can pop in the mid-range and has a very nice looking 3-pt shot for someone that big. With enough touches, I think this guy has 20/10/2 potential. No question in my mind. Who wouldn't want that/what team couldn't us that? As much as I like Mitch, i don't ever see him as a consistent 20/10/2 guy, putting a team on his back a-la Pat Ewing, making all-star teams, etc. I think this kid's worth pick 6, esp. with Wiseman and Toppin off the board. It's about turning every position possible into a net plus -- now Oturu TOGETHER with Robinson -- that's a very good tandem that I'd put up against any team's 5 man duo in the league, so I'd then see the 5 spot as a net plus. I'd be shocked if Oturu didn't pan out into a better version of Al Horford.

(2) At 25, I really like Saddiq Bey. I'm warming up to Aaron Nesmith here but Bey is still my guy. I see Nesmith as more of a 2G; but Bey at 6'8" 220-ish is a legit SF with all the tools. You'd probably expect a little more rebounding from him just looking at the numbers, but that aside, I love his game. Deadly shooter, probably one of 2 of the best shooters in this draft (the other being Nesmith), but I think we should be coveting a SF more. My plan would be to resign both Damyean Dotson and Zo Trier and let them handle the SG spot. I think that would be a good duo there and adequately cover that spot--Rose just needs to get both back on board. I'd then move Barrett over to starting SF and grab Bey in this draft to back him up. So now in my mind -- Oturu/Robinson is a plus at the 5 for years to come, Dot and Trier is a plus at SG, and Barrett/Bey would be a plus at the 3 -- that'd be 3 key positions with good youth/depth/production, that's how I continue to look at it. Only thing I question is if Bey will even be there at 25 -- I don't think he will be. So I think I'd look to use 25 and another asset or 2, whether that be a future draft asset, Frank, DSjr., Knox, Brazdekis, the rights to Sanon/Labeyrie and or Jaramaz, cash, to move up to at least 20 to have a legit shot at this guy. Again, DYNAMITE shooter with more to create for himself in other ways as well.

(3) I understand we need help at the point, I just don't see a star with any of these PGs projected to go top 10. I just don't see the game-changer. In fact, with guys like Ball and Anthony specifically, I see the chance for disappointment because everyone will see them as a game-changer... Personally, I see a lot of value much lower in this draft, specifically with a guy like Devon Dotson. He's the guy I'd target at 38, again using an asset or two to move up a little to secure him. The drawback: he's got small arms, only shot 31% from 3 (down from 36% the year before), and historically Kansas players haven't panned out well in the draft. That aside, i like his game. He got great speed, is strong/a good finisher (good 2-pt %), I like the 3-pt stroke even though the results were a bit low this year, he runs the offense well and he's got quick hands/good instincts defensively. I think he's great value at 38 or a bit higher and a guy worth targeting. Another guy I want a real good look at is this Issuf Sanon. I've seen a lot of tape and I like what I see. This kid reminds me of John Starks a lot. Not sure if he's a pure point (he feels more like a combo guard), but his game's got John Starks written all over it. Just need to see if he can run an offense, even if it's just part time. We need to see that, along with maintaining himself as a scoring threat -- really looking forward to Summer League to take a good look at this guy (if we even have a Summer league, who knows).

(4) The 4th player I'd like to see the Knicks think about targeting in this draft (would have to acquire another pick somehow) is Jalen Smith from Maryland, another guy I've talked about. This dude is 6'10", only about 220, but strong, extremely quick and agile, A FANTASTIC rim protector, excellent rebounder and he's a very good shooter from distance as well. He looks suprisingly strong too -- check out the tape of all his thunder dunks and how he's able to body up down low with players bigger than him. I'm not sure where this guy get picked (I've seen anywhere from the low teens to the 2nd round) but with any available asset(s) left over, I'd look to deal ourselves in for a crack at this guy. Guys like Portis and Gibson probably are only here next year, and that's even debatable (Portis has a team option for over $15mm and Gibson can be waived by a specific date in June and only cost the Knicks $1mm -- I believe Payton, Ellington and Bullock are all in the same boat (can be waived by this date in June and only cost $1mm). Even Randle doesn't feel long-term and could be gone if we found a taker. I'd love to get someone young, talented and cheap to beef up the 4 spot as well.

my plan for what it's worth:
1. Resign Dotson and Trier to man the SG spot. We could do a hell of a lot worse. So one spot instantly fortified here by two semi-already proven players..
2. Move Barrett to starting 3, draft Saddiq Bey to back him up. Aaron Nesmith at 6'6" with that pure stroke is a possibility here too. 3-spot fortified..
3. Grab Daniel Oturu for his legit 20/10/2 production potential in the middle.Together with Mitch, the middle is now fortified for years to come..
4. Put ourselves in position to draft Devon Dotson as a PG in waiting after another year of Payton/DSJr./Frank to see if any of those 3 finally rise to the occasion and seize an opportunity. If not, this guy Dotson would be a great understudy PG prospect in waiting to target late in this draft -- get me this kid, stash him in Westchester and allow him to marinate for the year unless called upon (he'd probably be more of a 2021-22 option -- that's ok, groom him as such). I think the potential's there to be as good as Cole Anthony, who I think is getting hyped to a ridiculous level. My thinking -- we get Cole Anthony at 6, we're set up for some disappointment because everyone would be expecting a game-changer. We get Devon Dotson around 30 or so however, i feel we'll be pleasantly surprised at the value we'd be getting there.
5. Instead of trading all assets for "a disgruntled star," use those assets to go after a 4th draft pick and target Jalen Smith as a quality understudy PF for 2021-22, when guy like Portis and Gibson will be gone (Randle too maybe).
6. If not traded to move up/acquire an additional pick in this draft, give Issuf Sanon a long look in Summer League and see if he's the next John Starks.

Forget this disgruntled star nonsense. That serves us no purpose right now. Start with this draft and build the foundation the right way. Let potential FAs look at a re-tooled roster and see the depth, the youth and the potential.

Field of Dreams -- "If you build it, he will come." Build it first!!!

Daniel Oturu reminds me of Wendell Carter Jr. A solid player with minimal star potential. Wiseman, Toppin, Onyeka have a lot more potential than him


He's Oturu's agent

I'm LaMelo's agent and you're Wiseman's agent so I can't say anything
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1233 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:48 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
Read on Twitter


he seems to have a high turnover rate as well. his shooting numbers look great in the 10 games he played in germany both from 3 and free throws but if you look at the prior year in Cholet on a larger sample size they're pretty bad, so I'm not sure what to trust there either. Honestly have no idea what we should expect out of this guy but I plan to watch more game footage

He's one of the top PG prospects in this draft for sure but I think he is starting to get overrated. Im seeing dudes saying he's the best prospect in the draft. He's not that good lol. He not even top 3 material
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1234 » by WargamesX » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:27 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Frank's our PG


Ball, Hayes, and Haliburton all have the size needed that they could play in a 3 guard rotation with both Frank and RJ.

We could just have two of those three playin all game and sub out as needed.

I know people like Frank but if any of these picks show they are starting PG material. Frank could have a better career as the Back up guard similar to better version of Marcus smart.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1235 » by robillionaire » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:47 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
Read on Twitter


he seems to have a high turnover rate as well. his shooting numbers look great in the 10 games he played in germany both from 3 and free throws but if you look at the prior year in Cholet on a larger sample size they're pretty bad, so I'm not sure what to trust there either. Honestly have no idea what we should expect out of this guy but I plan to watch more game footage

He's one of the top PG prospects in this draft for sure but I think he is starting to get overrated. Im seeing dudes saying he's the best prospect in the draft. He's not that good lol. He not even top 3 material


I just don't know how high his ceiling could be, I just don't see any one skill or physical feature that jumps out at me and makes me think "man this kid is going to be special" ideally you'd like to see that in a top 4 pick. If we're 7 or 8 it is what it is

I still have him high rated for the Knicks because I'm in the "we desperately need a PG" camp and I'd probably still take him as the 2nd PG off the board after lamelo but before haliburton or cole and others
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1236 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:51 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
Read on Twitter



He might be even more left hand dominate than RJ. That fit might be clunky if he's shooting from that one league isn't real. I worry about all the PG's when it comes to finishing in the NBA.

LaMelo- avoids contact prefers floaters 4.5 FTA per 36
Hayes/ Haliburton: Mediocre athletes 3.9 FTA per 36 Hally 2 FTA per 36
Cole: was one of the worst finishers in the NCAA 6 FTA per 36
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1237 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:58 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
he seems to have a high turnover rate as well. his shooting numbers look great in the 10 games he played in germany both from 3 and free throws but if you look at the prior year in Cholet on a larger sample size they're pretty bad, so I'm not sure what to trust there either. Honestly have no idea what we should expect out of this guy but I plan to watch more game footage

He's one of the top PG prospects in this draft for sure but I think he is starting to get overrated. Im seeing dudes saying he's the best prospect in the draft. He's not that good lol. He not even top 3 material


I just don't know how high his ceiling could be, I just don't see any one skill or physical feature that jumps out at me and makes me think "man this kid is going to be special" ideally you'd like to see that in a top 4 pick. If we're 7 or 8 it is what it is

I still have him high rated for the Knicks because I'm in the "we desperately need a PG" camp and I'd probably still take him as the 2nd PG off the board after lamelo but before haliburton or cole and others

Yeah I like him in that 7-10 range
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1238 » by robillionaire » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:02 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
Read on Twitter



He might be even more left hand dominate than RJ. That fit might be clunky if he's shooting from that one league isn't real. I worry about all the PG's when it comes to finishing in the NBA.

LaMelo- avoids contact prefers floaters 4.5 FTA per 36
Hayes/ Haliburton: Mediocre athletes 3.9 FTA per 36 Hally 2 FTA per 36
Cole: was one of the worst finishers in the NCAA 6 FTA per 36


cole was really the only one who got to the line on a frequent basis

haliburton is especially troubling with how he only went to the line for 2 attempts per game, he has a thin frame and doesn't attack the rim, would the knicks really draft a non-attacking PG when frank is already on the roster
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1239 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:33 pm

robillionaire wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
Read on Twitter



He might be even more left hand dominate than RJ. That fit might be clunky if he's shooting from that one league isn't real. I worry about all the PG's when it comes to finishing in the NBA.

LaMelo- avoids contact prefers floaters 4.5 FTA per 36
Hayes/ Haliburton: Mediocre athletes 3.9 FTA per 36 Hally 2 FTA per 36
Cole: was one of the worst finishers in the NCAA 6 FTA per 36


cole was really the only one who got to the line on a frequent basis

haliburton is especially troubling with how he only went to the line for 2 attempts per game, he has a thin frame and doesn't attack the rim, would the knicks really draft a non-attacking PG when frank is already on the roster


I know if I was in charge I wouldn't draft him for the Knicks. It's not that I think he's a bad player but he'd fit much better with a team like the Hawks or the Bulls with primary ball handlers. I have him as my lowest ranked PG behind Cole and Kira becaue of that.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3) 

Post#1240 » by WargamesX » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:35 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Like I said before, Hayes is super left handed dominant and it is worrisome for me. He needs to use his right hand to make up for his mediocre athleticism.
Read on Twitter



He might be even more left hand dominate than RJ. That fit might be clunky if he's shooting from that one league isn't real. I worry about all the PG's when it comes to finishing in the NBA.

LaMelo- avoids contact prefers floaters 4.5 FTA per 36
Hayes/ Haliburton: Mediocre athletes 3.9 FTA per 36 Hally 2 FTA per 36
Cole: was one of the worst finishers in the NCAA 6 FTA per 36


I think I said before consider RJ’s main strength is driving in the paint and Mitch being a rim runner. I still think Haliburton is the best fit. He can play as a secondary ball handler and has NBA 3 pt range which is what is needed to open the paint for RJ. I also think if Saddiq falls out the lottery the Knicks should use cash and future picks to go after him as well for the same reason. Adding two guys with NBA range who don’t need the ball to be effective on the court is important. The fact they can both play competent defense also would help if the move is for Thibs to be the coach.
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