2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 3)

[Zenzibar]

Nah we won’t be the worst if we have a good point guard feeding them. Not even close.

you need to be near the worst if you want Cade

Frank to the rescue

Please yes.

[3toheadmelo]

can you please explain to me what you consider a "jumper". I am looking at his shot chart...

5:12, 5:44, 6:14

Watch on YouTube

At least I know for a fact that you never watched him play live now. If you really think Mitch can pull off those fadeaways then you smoking crack

Go watch the other Wiseman I posted with Mike Schmitz. Breaks down his game from high school to now, his weaknesses, and what he has improved on since then. I recommend you watch it cause its obvious you don't know much about him.

the first one is a baby shot, guys take floaters from a farther distance. That doesn't show anything. The other two are jumpers. And that is exactly what his shooting chart suggests. He made 2 jumpers in college. So now he's a shooter?

2 things for certain we know.

He will run the floor and play above the rim
He will be able to protect the paint with his size and wingspan

what we also know is Mitchell Robinson is already elite at both already.

The one thing we don't know is if he will be able to develop a trust worthy jump shot. There is very little evidence to back up whichever side you are on.

I never once said Mitch could make that turnaround shot. But the question needs to be asked if thats the only difference in there games....an occasional turn around jumper really worth that high of a pick when we have a guy that can replicate everything else? When we need substantial talent upgrades at other spots?

Whoops here's the vid that lines up with the time marks I posted. Posted a dif vid by accident.

Watch on YouTube

;t=312s

You're also forgetting that Wiseman can post up. Another thing that Mitch cannot do. Well let me know when you watch the vid with Schmitz. Then we'll talk.

[3toheadmelo]

Knicks prob wont take Wiseman if given a chance which I think is dumb but I firmly believe that he will be 10x better than Mitch. No question about it. He's like Bosh but with an AD build. Yall gon learn. Lol

[mpharris36]

5:12, 5:44, 6:14

Watch on YouTube

At least I know for a fact that you never watched him play live now. If you really think Mitch can pull off those fadeaways then you smoking crack

Go watch the other Wiseman I posted with Mike Schmitz. Breaks down his game from high school to now, his weaknesses, and what he has improved on since then. I recommend you watch it cause its obvious you don't know much about him.

the first one is a baby shot, guys take floaters from a farther distance. That doesn't show anything. The other two are jumpers. And that is exactly what his shooting chart suggests. He made 2 jumpers in college. So now he's a shooter?

2 things for certain we know.

He will run the floor and play above the rim
He will be able to protect the paint with his size and wingspan

what we also know is Mitchell Robinson is already elite at both already.

The one thing we don't know is if he will be able to develop a trust worthy jump shot. There is very little evidence to back up whichever side you are on.

I never once said Mitch could make that turnaround shot. But the question needs to be asked if thats the only difference in there games....an occasional turn around jumper really worth that high of a pick when we have a guy that can replicate everything else? When we need substantial talent upgrades at other spots?

Whoops here's the vid that lines up with the time marks I posted. Posted a dif vid by accident.

Watch on YouTube

;t=312s

You're also forgetting that Wiseman can post up. Another thing that Mitch cannot do. Well let me know when you watch the vid with Schmitz. Then we'll talk.

From most scouting reports he is very mechanical with his post ups. And it usually results in a fadway shot. The consensus seems to be he's not a guy you can just throw it in the post and let him go to work.

Again there is nothing wrong with that actually since the NBA has evolved from bigs posting up...I'm just trying to differentiate the skills that really put Wiseman above a guy like Robinson.

His floor is a rim running big with rim protection skills. His ceiling is a bit sketchy to me because it will all depend on the range on the shot. And we know so little about him from his lack playing.

[Zenzibar]

Next year’s draft is incredibly weak for big men. The #1 big man, Evan Mobley doesn’t look impressive at all to me. Wiseman is a lot better. If we can’t get Wiseman then I would just roll with Mitch and hope he improves. Mobley seems pretty overrated

Not true. Outside of Cade Cunningham, the 2021 draft is loaded with bigs. In this draft is where we should address our 3 and 4, not now with your pick Wiseman.

Since you forgot again

This is what I posted.

We need to walk away with 3 point guards in this PG heavy draft. If 1 is starter material and 1 bench player, I'll consider this a very good draft.

To draft a front court player in 2020 is nonsensical since we have Mitch, Knox and Randle for now and 2021 is laden with talented front court players.

Repeat, we need to walk away with either of 3: LaMelo, Tyrese Haliburton, Killian Hayes, Anthony Cole, RJ Hampton, Kira Lewis Jr. Tyrese Maxey, Devin Vassell, Desmond Bane, Jahmi'us Ramsey, Leandro Bolmaro etc.

[mpharris36]

Knicks prob wont take Wiseman if given a chance which I think is dumb but I firmly believe that he will be 10x better than Mitch. No question about it. He's like Bosh but with an AD build. Yall gon learn. Lol

Bosh?

dude shot 48% from 3 in his only season in college

https://i.imgur.com/0OvsEzR.gifv

that is his career shot chart. You really believe wiseman will have that versatility with his shot?

[Deeeez Knicks]

i feel confident in saying that wiseman is going to be a really good rebounder, lob catcher, shot blocker. I guess I see him being something like prime deandre jordan. i think he's going to be a pretty good nba center. we already have a pretty good nba center

Yea, he is safe and will probably be a good NBA center. It's just not that critical of a position anymore, unless you find someone special. For some teams he makes sense to draft. For the Knicks, they need to figure out who is the best G or wing and pick them.

[mpharris36]

i feel confident in saying that wiseman is going to be a really good rebounder, lob catcher, shot blocker. I guess I see him being something like prime deandre jordan. i think he's going to be a pretty good nba center. we already have a pretty good nba center

Yea, he is safe and will probably be a good NBA center. It's just not that critical of a position anymore, unless you find someone special. For some teams he makes sense to draft. For the Knicks, they need to figure out who is the best G or wing and pick them.

if you can rebound, protect the rim, and rim run thats exactly what you want out of the center position.

Wiseman is not a unicorn in the sense he is going to be outside making plays off the dribble and hitting 3's from the center position.

He is going to be a very productive big. But is that position that valuable especially to us? When we already have a guy that can do those things at a fraction of the cost? While also spending a premium asset on the same position - devalued position?

[robillionaire]

i feel confident in saying that wiseman is going to be a really good rebounder, lob catcher, shot blocker. I guess I see him being something like prime deandre jordan. i think he's going to be a pretty good nba center. we already have a pretty good nba center

Yea, he is safe and will probably be a good NBA center. It's just not that critical of a position anymore, unless you find someone special. For some teams he makes sense to draft. For the Knicks, they need to figure out who is the best G or wing and pick them.

if you can rebound, protect the rim, and rim run what else do you want out of the center position?

Wiseman is not a unicorn in the sense he is going to be outside making plays off the dribble and hitting 3's from the center position.

He is going to be a very productive big. But is that position that valuable especially to us? When we already have a guy that can do those things at a fraction of the cost? While also spending a premium asset on the same position?

The best center in the NBA is Embiid. So let's just say for the sake of argument, he will be on the level of Embiid. Literally the best center in the NBA.

Even then, I'd still take LaMelo. I'd probably take Wiseman 2nd in that scenario.

[RHODEY]

A PG finding saga. The looking for a Point Guard Saga (without a great investment - Big FA sign or great draft prospects).

2010/11: Felton is good but he is not a contender PG. Lets trade him to get Melo. Besides, we dont need a young PG. 34 years Billups can work. He still has some years ahead...

2011/2012: Billup is over. 32 years. Mike Bibby is the solution. Hmmm. Mike is no good anymore. The solution is 32 years old Baron Davis. He is still injured... Sucks; I Know the solution is the undrafted Jeremy Lee. Linsanity!! Lin is out. Baron Davis is back!. Crap! Another injury...

2012/13: Baron is over. Lin is too expensive. The solution are 39 years Jason Kid and Felton for the long run!! Felton is better than Lee. Yeah! 54 wins campaign. Hmm... Playoffs are boring...

2013/14: Jason Kid is over. Who would imagine that? But we have the incredible Felton. Oh No! He got fat. We always knew that he is not a contenders PG.

2014/2015: Felton is over. 33 years old Jose Calderon is the solution, a great pass first PG. Injuries!? We really have bad luck with 32+ years old PGs with huge injury historic who no team wants.

2015/2016: Calderon is not great to a contender team. He is not a scorer. Lets develop a PG trough the draft. This guy Jerian Grant is the solution (a still with the 19th pick). Some months later: Jerian is looking like a bust. Calderon was healthy. But is getting more old and he is not a scorer (who would figure that).

2016/2017: Calderon and Jerian are over. Derick Rose is the solution!! He is a scorer and still 28. He is perfect to play triangule for some obscure motive!!! He is getting better from his huge injury... I hope... Some months later: He is not the same guy he once were and he doesnt pass.

2017/2018: Rose is over. Frank is the solution. He has great defensive instincts and a great frame. Its easy to develop a ofensive game. To mentor him Ramon Session. Oh No, he is really bad. To mentor him 34 years Jarret Jack. We always got luck with vet PGs!! Somes months later: Frank looks very green. He may need much time to mature. We need insurance. Lets redraft some wronged busts. Mudlay and Burke can still be good players.

2018/2019: Jack is over. Lets try Mud, Burke and Frank. One of them is destined to be great. We dont need another PG in the draft. No Shai. Some months later: The trio is very bad... Lets trade for Dennis Jr.

2019/2020: Dennis Jr is the solution. We are stuck with Frank. Payton can be a mentor and a insurance because he is still 25 years old. Some months later: Dennis is a bust... Payton is not a contender PG. We dont know what Frank is.

2020/2021: Who will be out next solution?

35yr old CP3, who I wanted earlier when I though we were going to compete last year. I certainly dont want him now seeing the impact he had on OKC I think he's give on 10-12 more wins- something I certainly dont want going into the 2021 draft. Don't trust these fools not ot throw in picks for him as well.

I would take Conley though....

[mpharris36]

Yea, he is safe and will probably be a good NBA center. It's just not that critical of a position anymore, unless you find someone special. For some teams he makes sense to draft. For the Knicks, they need to figure out who is the best G or wing and pick them.

if you can rebound, protect the rim, and rim run what else do you want out of the center position?

Wiseman is not a unicorn in the sense he is going to be outside making plays off the dribble and hitting 3's from the center position.

He is going to be a very productive big. But is that position that valuable especially to us? When we already have a guy that can do those things at a fraction of the cost? While also spending a premium asset on the same position?

The best center in the NBA is Embiid. So let's just say for the sake of argument, he will be on the level of Embiid. Literally the best center in the NBA.

Even then, I'd still take LaMelo. I'd probably take Wiseman 2nd in that scenario.

Embiid was coming into the game with elite foot work and an advanced post up game already. He was so far advanced for a big his age. So you could see the potential if he was just able to stay healthy.

[robillionaire]

if you can rebound, protect the rim, and rim run what else do you want out of the center position?

Wiseman is not a unicorn in the sense he is going to be outside making plays off the dribble and hitting 3's from the center position.

He is going to be a very productive big. But is that position that valuable especially to us? When we already have a guy that can do those things at a fraction of the cost? While also spending a premium asset on the same position?

The best center in the NBA is Embiid. So let's just say for the sake of argument, he will be on the level of Embiid. Literally the best center in the NBA.

Even then, I'd still take LaMelo. I'd probably take Wiseman 2nd in that scenario.

Embiid was coming into the game with elite foot work and an advanced post up game already. He was so far advanced for a big his age. So you could see the potential if he was just able to stay healthy.

I agree he won't be as good as Embiid and he doesn't even seem to have a post game but I'm just saying HYPOTHETICALLY you had some insider information from the future and you knew he'd wind up being regarded by most as the best center in the NBA at some point. would your approach be different

[RHODEY]

Knicks prob wont take Wiseman if given a chance which I think is dumb but I firmly believe that he will be 10x better than Mitch. No question about it. He's like Bosh but with an AD build. Yall gon learn. Lol

If he's that good, you take him no question. At first I was against Wiseman (because we have a Mitch), but that clip showed he could have some offensive potential....To me he sort of looks like a little less Springy but bigger Dwight Howard...with better offensive potential. His tool set is kinda sick I must admit.

I would interview the kid, past coaches, e.t.c and find out his mental makup. Because if he has that will I think he could become a great 2 way player . Ewing did it....

[Deeeez Knicks]

i feel confident in saying that wiseman is going to be a really good rebounder, lob catcher, shot blocker. I guess I see him being something like prime deandre jordan. i think he's going to be a pretty good nba center. we already have a pretty good nba center

Yea, he is safe and will probably be a good NBA center. It's just not that critical of a position anymore, unless you find someone special. For some teams he makes sense to draft. For the Knicks, they need to figure out who is the best G or wing and pick them.

if you can rebound, protect the rim, and rim run thats exactly what you want out of the center position.

Wiseman is not a unicorn in the sense he is going to be outside making plays off the dribble and hitting 3's from the center position.

He is going to be a very productive big. But is that position that valuable especially to us? When we already have a guy that can do those things at a fraction of the cost? While also spending a premium asset on the same position?

Yeah, agree. I mean we are not gonna take him anyway.

[robillionaire]

A PG finding saga. The looking for a Point Guard Saga (without a great investment - Big FA sign or great draft prospects).

2010/11: Felton is good but he is not a contender PG. Lets trade him to get Melo. Besides, we dont need a young PG. 34 years Billups can work. He still has some years ahead...

2011/2012: Billup is over. 32 years. Mike Bibby is the solution. Hmmm. Mike is no good anymore. The solution is 32 years old Baron Davis. He is still injured... Sucks; I Know the solution is the undrafted Jeremy Lee. Linsanity!! Lin is out. Baron Davis is back!. Crap! Another injury...

2012/13: Baron is over. Lin is too expensive. The solution are 39 years Jason Kid and Felton for the long run!! Felton is better than Lee. Yeah! 54 wins campaign. Hmm... Playoffs are boring...

2013/14: Jason Kid is over. Who would imagine that? But we have the incredible Felton. Oh No! He got fat. We always knew that he is not a contenders PG.

2014/2015: Felton is over. 33 years old Jose Calderon is the solution, a great pass first PG. Injuries!? We really have bad luck with 32+ years old PGs with huge injury historic who no team wants.

2015/2016: Calderon is not great to a contender team. He is not a scorer. Lets develop a PG trough the draft. This guy Jerian Grant is the solution (a still with the 19th pick). Some months later: Jerian is looking like a bust. Calderon was healthy. But is getting more old and he is not a scorer (who would figure that).

2016/2017: Calderon and Jerian are over. Derick Rose is the solution!! He is a scorer and still 28. He is perfect to play triangule for some obscure motive!!! He is getting better from his huge injury... I hope... Some months later: He is not the same guy he once were and he doesnt pass.

2017/2018: Rose is over. Frank is the solution. He has great defensive instincts and a great frame. Its easy to develop a ofensive game. To mentor him Ramon Session. Oh No, he is really bad. To mentor him 34 years Jarret Jack. We always got luck with vet PGs!! Somes months later: Frank looks very green. He may need much time to mature. We need insurance. Lets redraft some wronged busts. Mudlay and Burke can still be good players.

2018/2019: Jack is over. Lets try Mud, Burke and Frank. One of them is destined to be great. We dont need another PG in the draft. No Shai. Some months later: The trio is very bad... Lets trade for Dennis Jr.

2019/2020: Dennis Jr is the solution. We are stuck with Frank. Payton can be a mentor and a insurance because he is still 25 years old. Some months later: Dennis is a bust... Payton is not a contender PG. We dont know what Frank is.

2020/2021: Who will be out next solution?

this level of incompetence is hard to even put into words. you could take some kind of random decision generator or a magic 8 ball to make decisions for the team and still luck into a better outcome than the people running this team have done. It's almost impossible to be consistently wrong about everything and somehow they've done it

[mpharris36]

Yea, he is safe and will probably be a good NBA center. It's just not that critical of a position anymore, unless you find someone special. For some teams he makes sense to draft. For the Knicks, they need to figure out who is the best G or wing and pick them.

if you can rebound, protect the rim, and rim run thats exactly what you want out of the center position.

Wiseman is not a unicorn in the sense he is going to be outside making plays off the dribble and hitting 3's from the center position.

He is going to be a very productive big. But is that position that valuable especially to us? When we already have a guy that can do those things at a fraction of the cost? While also spending a premium asset on the same position?

Yeah, agree. I mean we are not gonna take him anyway.

agreed

even deep down melo doesn't believe it

[3toheadmelo]

Knicks prob wont take Wiseman if given a chance which I think is dumb but I firmly believe that he will be 10x better than Mitch. No question about it. He's like Bosh but with an AD build. Yall gon learn. Lol

If he's that good, you take him no question. At first I was against Wiseman (because we have a Mitch), but that clip showed he could have some offensive potential....To me he sort of looks like a little less Springy but bigger Dwight Howard...with better offensive potential. His tool set is kinda sick I must admit.

I would interview the kid, past coaches, e.t.c and find out his mental makup. Because if he has that will I think he could become a great 2 way player . Ewing did it....

Yeah man I’ve been tell everyone here he can be a really good dominant big on both ends. I’m glad you’re starting to see it.

You should check out the vid he has with Mike Schmitz. Wiseman seems like a really smart kid.

[8516knicks]

A PG finding saga. The looking for a Point Guard Saga (without a great investment - Big FA sign or great draft prospects).

2010/11: Felton is good but he is not a contender PG. Lets trade him to get Melo. Besides, we dont need a young PG. 34 years Billups can work. He still has some years ahead...

2011/2012: Billup is over. 32 years. Mike Bibby is the solution. Hmmm. Mike is no good anymore. The solution is 32 years old Baron Davis. He is still injured... Sucks; I Know the solution is the undrafted Jeremy Lee. Linsanity!! Lin is out. Baron Davis is back!. Crap! Another injury...

2012/13: Baron is over. Lin is too expensive. The solution are 39 years Jason Kid and Felton for the long run!! Felton is better than Lee. Yeah! 54 wins campaign. Hmm... Playoffs are boring...

2013/14: Jason Kid is over. Who would imagine that? But we have the incredible Felton. Oh No! He got fat. We always knew that he is not a contenders PG.

2014/2015: Felton is over. 33 years old Jose Calderon is the solution, a great pass first PG. Injuries!? We really have bad luck with 32+ years old PGs with huge injury historic who no team wants.

2015/2016: Calderon is not great to a contender team. He is not a scorer. Lets develop a PG trough the draft. This guy Jerian Grant is the solution (a still with the 19th pick). Some months later: Jerian is looking like a bust. Calderon was healthy. But is getting more old and he is not a scorer (who would figure that).

2016/2017: Calderon and Jerian are over. Derick Rose is the solution!! He is a scorer and still 28. He is perfect to play triangule for some obscure motive!!! He is getting better from his huge injury... I hope... Some months later: He is not the same guy he once were and he doesnt pass.

2017/2018: Rose is over. Frank is the solution. He has great defensive instincts and a great frame. Its easy to develop a ofensive game. To mentor him Ramon Session. Oh No, he is really bad. To mentor him 34 years Jarret Jack. We always got luck with vet PGs!! Somes months later: Frank looks very green. He may need much time to mature. We need insurance. Lets redraft some wronged busts. Mudlay and Burke can still be good players.

2018/2019: Jack is over. Lets try Mud, Burke and Frank. One of them is destined to be great. We dont need another PG in the draft. No Shai. Some months later: The trio is very bad... Lets trade for Dennis Jr.

2019/2020: Dennis Jr is the solution. We are stuck with Frank. Payton can be a mentor and a insurance because he is still 25 years old. Some months later: Dennis is a bust... Payton is not a contender PG. We dont know what Frank is.

2020/2021: Who will be out next solution?

You should have done a A.) LAUGH B.) CRY on this. I couldn't help laughing.

[sol537]

Draft at least 2 PG's. Trade up, trade down, whatever. Get 2 good PG prospects and hope that one becomes your full-time starter some day.

[WargamesX]

A PG finding saga. The looking for a Point Guard Saga (without a great investment - Big FA sign or great draft prospects).

2010/11: Felton is good but he is not a contender PG. Lets trade him to get Melo. Besides, we dont need a young PG. 34 years Billups can work. He still has some years ahead...

2011/2012: Billup is over. 32 years. Mike Bibby is the solution. Hmmm. Mike is no good anymore. The solution is 32 years old Baron Davis. He is still injured... Sucks; I Know the solution is the undrafted Jeremy Lee. Linsanity!! Lin is out. Baron Davis is back!. Crap! Another injury...

2012/13: Baron is over. Lin is too expensive. The solution are 39 years Jason Kid and Felton for the long run!! Felton is better than Lee. Yeah! 54 wins campaign. Hmm... Playoffs are boring...

2013/14: Jason Kid is over. Who would imagine that? But we have the incredible Felton. Oh No! He got fat. We always knew that he is not a contenders PG.

2014/2015: Felton is over. 33 years old Jose Calderon is the solution, a great pass first PG. Injuries!? We really have bad luck with 32+ years old PGs with huge injury historic who no team wants.

2015/2016: Calderon is not great to a contender team. He is not a scorer. Lets develop a PG trough the draft. This guy Jerian Grant is the solution (a still with the 19th pick). Some months later: Jerian is looking like a bust. Calderon was healthy. But is getting more old and he is not a scorer (who would figure that).

2016/2017: Calderon and Jerian are over. Derick Rose is the solution!! He is a scorer and still 28. He is perfect to play triangule for some obscure motive!!! He is getting better from his huge injury... I hope... Some months later: He is not the same guy he once were and he doesnt pass.

2017/2018: Rose is over. Frank is the solution. He has great defensive instincts and a great frame. Its easy to develop a ofensive game. To mentor him Ramon Session. Oh No, he is really bad. To mentor him 34 years Jarret Jack. We always got luck with vet PGs!! Somes months later: Frank looks very green. He may need much time to mature. We need insurance. Lets redraft some wronged busts. Mudlay and Burke can still be good players.

2018/2019: Jack is over. Lets try Mud, Burke and Frank. One of them is destined to be great. We dont need another PG in the draft. No Shai. Some months later: The trio is very bad... Lets trade for Dennis Jr.

2019/2020: Dennis Jr is the solution. We are stuck with Frank. Payton can be a mentor and a insurance because he is still 25 years old. Some months later: Dennis is a bust... Payton is not a contender PG. We dont know what Frank is.

2020/2021: Who will be out next solution?

this level of incompetence is hard to even put into words. you could take some kind of random decision generator or a magic 8 ball to make decisions for the team and still luck into a better outcome than the people running this team have done. It's almost impossible to be consistently wrong about everything and somehow they've done it

For real let’s draft Haliburton the best all around PG in the draft or Hayes who is a PG but needs some work. Reading this Cole Anthony isn’t going to make it in NY