ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

[lazybatman]

I wonder if this doc will dissuade current and future players in the league to team up and form "Super Teams" in the name of legacy. I don't know, I just think the the arch of a great player's career seems far more interesting when they go through these trials and tribulations in reaching the mountain top, and out of it, a docuseries like this can emerge.

But, I'll say, that it depends on the organizations these players are in as well, in surrounding them with the right supporting cast to be able to reach that brass ring.

Exactly it’s more interesting when players finally get over the hump and reach the mountain top instead of taking the easy way out. I’m looking at you KD and Lebron!

That's so cute.. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Chicago Bulls was the biggest super team of them all. Bigger than the KD+Warriors.

GOAT
An all time top 25 player as a sidekick. 6 time all defensive team. Top two MVP candidate in Mike's absence.
7 time rebounding Champion. DPOY. Already a champion, who, most importantly, knew his role.
Easily a top 3 all time coach, if not no. 1
Harper, Cartwright, Kukoc..

Bulls we're just built by an extremely competent Front Office, which Mike may not personally like, but that doesn't change facts.

Mike wins ZERO rings playing for his own Charlotte Hornets today. ZERO!!!

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[Sprewell4Three]

Toni and Steve Kerr were shown enough. Each of them had plenty of time and talked up for their parts to the dynasty's success.

Jordan had this to say about Jerry Krause:

When Krause passed in 2017, Jordan issued a statement calling him “a key figure in the Bulls’ dynasty” who “meant so much to the Bulls, the White Sox and the entire city of Chicago” before offering condolences to Krause’s family.

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People these days act like how MJ conducted himself with Krause and Or Burrell was mean. But they don’t understand that’s how alpha males talk to each other. Ever been to a black barbershop? Brothas joke around each other all the time.

[blumatic]

Chicago Bulls Sue the NBA during the 90s. NBA prevented Bulls game from being shown to Bulls fans outside of Chicago.

Watch on YouTube

[Sprewell4Three]

I wonder if this doc will dissuade current and future players in the league to team up and form "Super Teams" in the name of legacy. I don't know, I just think the the arch of a great player's career seems far more interesting when they go through these trials and tribulations in reaching the mountain top, and out of it, a docuseries like this can emerge.

But, I'll say, that it depends on the organizations these players are in as well, in surrounding them with the right supporting cast to be able to reach that brass ring.

Exactly it’s more interesting when players finally get over the hump and reach the mountain top instead of taking the easy way out. I’m looking at you KD and Lebron!

That's so cute.. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Chicago Bulls was the biggest super team of them all. Bigger than the KD+Warriors.

GOAT
An all time top 25 player as a sidekick. 6 time all defensive team. Top two MVP candidate in Mike's absence.
7 time rebounding Champion. DPOY. Already a champion, who, most importantly, knew his role.
Easily a top 3 all time coach, if not no. 1
Harper, Cartwright, Kukoc..

Bulls we're just built by an extremely competent Front Office, which Mike may not personally like, but that doesn't change facts.

Mike wins ZERO rings playing for his own Charlotte Hornets today. ZERO!!!

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

There’s nothing ignorance of what I said. What were the Bulls before Jordan got there ? They were as bad as the current Charlotte Hornets team. MJ put the Bulls on the map before Phil and Scottie got there. He propelled the Bulls into the playoffs after coming back from a broken foot.

As good as Rodman was he didn’t even start the game 6 against the Jazz in 98. Scottie was great but he raised his game playing along side MJ. Phil is a great coach but how many rings has he won without having 2 or 3 of the best players in the entire NBA?

[Sprewell4Three]

I hate how people prop up Lebron for having more rebounds and assists then MJ. I mean of course he's going to average more rebounds since he plays closer to the rim. And of course he's going to average more assists because he's a point - forward. MJ wasn't asked to be the sole ball handler for his team. Especially when he had to play in the triangle offense where everyone gets a chance to touch the ball. Lebron plays in the "lebron james system" where you give him the ball and get out the way. Basically let him create for others and himself.

[ILOVEIT]

Exactly it’s more interesting when players finally get over the hump and reach the mountain top instead of taking the easy way out. I’m looking at you KD and Lebron!

That's so cute.. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Chicago Bulls was the biggest super team of them all. Bigger than the KD+Warriors.

GOAT
An all time top 25 player as a sidekick. 6 time all defensive team. Top two MVP candidate in Mike's absence.
7 time rebounding Champion. DPOY. Already a champion, who, most importantly, knew his role.
Easily a top 3 all time coach, if not no. 1
Harper, Cartwright, Kukoc..

Bulls we're just built by an extremely competent Front Office, which Mike may not personally like, but that doesn't change facts.

Mike wins ZERO rings playing for his own Charlotte Hornets today. ZERO!!!

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

There’s nothing ignorance of what I said. What were the Bulls before Jordan got there ? They were as bad as the current Charlotte Hornets team. MJ put the Bulls on the map before Phil and Scottie got there. He propelled the Bulls into the playoffs after coming back from a broken foot.

As good as Rodman was he didn’t even start the game 6 against the Jazz in 98. Scottie was great but he raised his game playing along side MJ. Phil is a great coach but how many rings has he won without having 2 or 3 of the best players in the entire NBA?

38, 30*, 40, 50, 47 in his first 5 seasons. Eh....that's nothing to brag about. Again, many stars have lifted their teams to better seasons than those. The only time his team got above 50 wins is when Pippen joined.

Jordan is a spectacular player....top 3 for sure. But don't overstate his impact on the team before Pippen arrived....

* broke his foot.

[lazybatman]

If Pippen's back was in the same shape for a theoretical game 7 as it was during game 7, it would've been really tough for the Bulls to win.

But I don't know, there was just this aura about Jordan at the time that he would just get it done no matter what. Is that fantasy more than reality? Sure. But it's hard to think Jordan wouldn't have found a way to still get it done in game 7, at home, even if Pippen and his back were still in bad shape.

Game 7 would have been in Utah. Both teams won 62 games that season, but Utah had home-court advantage.
Back then the Finals format was 2-3-2.

Sorry, you're correct. I don't know why I thought it'd go back to Chicago for game 7. Huge brain-fart on my part.

Totally agreed fellows. Jazz would've been coming back from 3-1 with all the momentum on their side against a self immolating Bulls superteam.

But, it further cements Mike's status with his ability to turn it up in the final minutes after Stockton's dagger. There will never be anyone quite like him. That second three-peat was like a movie.

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[Sprewell4Three]

That's so cute.. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Chicago Bulls was the biggest super team of them all. Bigger than the KD+Warriors.

GOAT
An all time top 25 player as a sidekick. 6 time all defensive team. Top two MVP candidate in Mike's absence.
7 time rebounding Champion. DPOY. Already a champion, who, most importantly, knew his role.
Easily a top 3 all time coach, if not no. 1
Harper, Cartwright, Kukoc..

Bulls we're just built by an extremely competent Front Office, which Mike may not personally like, but that doesn't change facts.

Mike wins ZERO rings playing for his own Charlotte Hornets today. ZERO!!!

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

There’s nothing ignorance of what I said. What were the Bulls before Jordan got there ? They were as bad as the current Charlotte Hornets team. MJ put the Bulls on the map before Phil and Scottie got there. He propelled the Bulls into the playoffs after coming back from a broken foot.

As good as Rodman was he didn’t even start the game 6 against the Jazz in 98. Scottie was great but he raised his game playing along side MJ. Phil is a great coach but how many rings has he won without having 2 or 3 of the best players in the entire NBA?

38, 30*, 40, 50, 47 in his first 5 seasons. Eh....that's nothing to brag about. Again, many stars have lifted their teams to better seasons than those. The only time his team got above 50 wins is when Pippen joined.

Jordan is a spectacular player....top 3 for sure. But don't overstate his impact on the team before Pippen arrived....

* broke his foot.

You guys are some of the worst Pippen defenders. Tell me how many points did Pippen avg his first season on the Bulls? You guys act like rookie Pippen was playing like Luka Doncic or something. The man was coming off the bench avg 7 points. Pippen didnt make his first all star team until what...his 3rd or 4th season?

Scottie eventually became an all time player, nobody can't take that away from him. But people need to stop overrating him and saying he came into the league like gangbusters dropping 30 every night or something. It's ridiculous that people make this argument about Pippen because it's not based in reality at all.

[lazybatman]

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

ESPN is a joke...

What seems to be the problem? They polled 600 people for a topic that people seem to bring up 24/7 around this doc and social media sites like this one.

It's only a 600 person sample size but just emphasizes that the majority of people find MJ to be greater. It's all an opinion anyway regardless of which side you take. This is a lot better than the insecure LeBron fans that have tore this thread apart while most of us are just trying to discuss the documentary itself.

And Air Jordan sold more shoes last year - 2019, than the top 7 NBA current superstars who have signature shoes. It's a popularity contest, not facts.

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[Petergrifindor]

Pippen is not one of the best 25 players ever. As the matter of fact, he hardly would make best 75.

It's incredible how overrated he has becone after his career was over.

[Sprewell4Three]

Pippen is not one of the best 25 players ever. As the matter of fact, he hardly would make best 75.

It's incredible how overrated he has becone after his career was over.

Exactly, honestly its just salty Lebron fans that have to find anything to discredit MJs career. Its ridiculous. Its like saying if the Bulls replaced MJ with any superstar in the 90s, that the Bulls would have still won 6 chips. Basically discrediting all of MJs accomplishments on the court by saying "if it wasn't for Scottie" nonsense. In 1988 , MJ was the MVP , DPOY, Scoring champion while Scottie was avg less then 15 points. Scottie wasn't really a leader, even he would tell you that. Watching this documentary, sometimes it felt like Scottie and the rest of the guys was just there for the ride. Especially game 6 against the Jazz in 98.

[lazybatman]

Scottie is ranked no. 21 on recently published NBA top 74 players. Salty much?

And he made 10 All defensive teams, not 6. My bad.

And before you start labelling Rodman as a chump look at these -
7 time rebounding champion and All NBA defensive team; 2 time DPOY; and I stress, a player who knew his role and was already a champion before he joined the Bulls
And Phil's resume only got further glorified in this doc.

Mike's not GOAT without any one of them and his supporting cast, and likely finishes his career getting swept out of first and second rounds.

In an alternate reality, Mike's not sticking to the 2010 Cavs under Dan Gilbert either, if indeed he sticks around till then.. Forget coming back to a 27 win team trying to win one for the Land. This is a guy who cared about Republicans buying shoes. That's 11 years of prime down the drain. He had problems with that Bulls front office. Imagine the meltdown/s he'd be having with his own Charlotte Hornets as a star player.

A lot of luck, help, effort and talent go into it. It's not freaking tennis or badminton, where you can win on your own.

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[Air Apparent]

^ mike also wouldve beaten dwights magic in 09, and definitely wouldve made it to the finals, if he needed to average 45 for a series to get past those celtics, pierce was trash in them anyway aside from a few moments, that was a winnable series, how u gonna let rondo beat you lol

there was a never a series where he was the fav going in that he would lose, bron on the other hand, man cant stop losing as the heavy favourite in series throughout his career

[Coco Costanza]

I wonder if this doc will dissuade current and future players in the league to team up and form "Super Teams" in the name of legacy. I don't know, I just think the the arch of a great player's career seems far more interesting when they go through these trials and tribulations in reaching the mountain top, and out of it, a docuseries like this can emerge.

But, I'll say, that it depends on the organizations these players are in as well, in surrounding them with the right supporting cast to be able to reach that brass ring.

Exactly it’s more interesting when players finally get over the hump and reach the mountain top instead of taking the easy way out. I’m looking at you KD and Lebron!

That's so cute.. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

Chicago Bulls was the biggest super team of them all. Bigger than the KD+Warriors.

GOAT
An all time top 25 player as a sidekick. 6 time all defensive team. Top two MVP candidate in Mike's absence.
7 time rebounding Champion. DPOY. Already a champion, who, most importantly, knew his role.
Easily a top 3 all time coach, if not no. 1
Harper, Cartwright, Kukoc..

Bulls we're just built by an extremely competent Front Office, which Mike may not personally like, but that doesn't change facts.

Mike wins ZERO rings playing for his own Charlotte Hornets today. ZERO!!!

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

To me a super team is a team that goes out and signs multiple all stars. The Warriors drafted three future stars fare and square. But then they went out and signed Kevin Durant, already a superstar, and later Boogie Cousins.

The Bulls, on the other hand, drafted just MJ and Pippen (technically Pippen was traded for on draft night). People talk about Pippen as if he was a savior who came to rescue the Bulls, and not a player who blossomed into a great player as he was playing for the Bulls.

Cartwright? Harper? Neither one of those guys were all stars. Neither was Kukoc, as good as he was.

The idea that the Bulls was the biggest super team, or a super team at all, is ludicrous.

[Klayforspicy]

Dennis Rodman would of been blacklisted out the league in this era

[Durant Durant]

The champions of the 19-20 season is the 97-98 Chicago Bulls.

Man everybody's talking about this show short of a parade.


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[The Rodzilla]

To me a super team is a team that goes out and signs multiple all stars. The Warriors drafted three future stars fare and square. But then they went out and signed Kevin Durant, already a superstar, and later Boogie Cousins.

The Bulls, on the other hand, drafted just MJ and Pippen (technically Pippen was traded for on draft night). People talk about Pippen as if he was a savior who came to rescue the Bulls, and not a player who blossomed into a great player as he was playing for the Bulls.

Cartwright? Harper? Neither one of those guys were all stars. Neither was Kukoc, as good as he was.

The idea that the Bulls was the biggest super team, or a super team at all, is ludicrous.

why do the players need to be signed in order for it to be a super team?

[Klayforspicy]

And this documentary confirms my belief that Kawhi is the closest thing to Jordan besides 2 peat Kobe

[otwok]

Back in the 90's the talk of superteams just didn't exist. It may have come up when Pippen and Barkley were on the Rockets with Hakeem but this wasn't a term used to describe teams until recently.

Pippen was the ultimate #2. No doubt. But the reality is that Pippen didn't make his first all-star team till 1990, and when he made the Dream Team, he wasn't even an all-star that year. His first All-NBA appearance wasn't till 1992. And even if you look at it, Pippen was the only active all-star that Jordan ever played with.

BJ Armstrong, Horace Grant (injury replacement for Zo), and Rodman weren't all-stars when Jordan played. So sure, he had a lot of help, but they weren't really a superteam, and weren't thought of it at that time.

[BodieB]

I hate how people prop up Lebron for having more rebounds and assists then MJ. I mean of course he's going to average more rebounds since he plays closer to the rim. And of course he's going to average more assists because he's a point - forward. MJ wasn't asked to be the sole ball handler for his team. Especially when he had to play in the triangle offense where everyone gets a chance to touch the ball. Lebron plays in the "lebron james system" where you give him the ball and get out the way. Basically let him create for others and himself.

Lebron is a better passer. Y'all got to let that one go. You can give Jordan whatever else you want, but passing is one attribute he clearly has over Jordan. He's one of the best ever at it.