Team Canada Basketball Thread V2.0

[frumble]

Some NBA owners want to make a permanent shift to a later start and end to the season. Would rather compete against mideason MLB in July/August than NFL/college football in Nov/Dec. Also want more space between March Madness and NBA playoffs.

Having to shift 20/21 season as a result of COVID-19 is good catalyst to make permanent switch to having season run roughly Jan to Aug instead of Nov to June.

So, unless other leagues follow suit, there will be far fewer times of the year when all players would be available. Does not bode well for future participation. Olympic (and Worlds) basketball may be going in direction of Olympic hockey.

[Bobby Plump]

The men's Olympic basketball qualifier has been rescheduled to June 29 to July 4, 2021 to possibly no fans and likely minus NBA players still involved in the playoffs if the next season starts in December or later. Yet another possible roadblock to qualification for Canada.

Story: https://www.espn.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/29175752/olympic-basketball-qualifying-tokyo-games-rescheduled

[Mirotic12]

I can give you guys an update on what Greece's roster at that qualifier tournament might look like. Rick Pitino, Greece's head coach, listed which players he will select for Greece at the qualification tournament:

Nick Calathes
Ioannis Papapetrou
Georgios Papagiannis
Georgios Printezis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Tyler Dorsey
Vassilis Spanoulis ("as the leader")

With the other 5 players to be picked at the team's training camp. No Antetokounmpos (including Giannis) were mentioned as being on the team. So basically, no NBA players. He didn't mention Kostas Sloukas, so I don't know if he just forgot him, if Sloukas does not want to play (there are rumors about him signing in the NBA), or if Pitino intends to replace his role on the team with Spanoulis. I am just going to assume that he forgot to mention him.

A few months ago, Nikos Zisis' agent said he would be coming back to the NT team after some years off, and that he would also be playing...so I guess the team with no injuries, or players opting out could look something like this:

PG Nick Calathes / Nikos Zisis
SG Vassilis Spanoulis / Kostas Sloukas
SF Kostas Papanikolaou / Tyler Dorsey
PF Georgios Printezis / Ioannis Papapetrou
C / Georgios Papagiannis

8 EuroLeague rotation players, plus Zisis, who has tons of prior EuroLeague experience.

So looks like they will be picking another center through the training camp. There is an opening at center on the team, because Ioannis Bourousis, who had been the NT's main center for many years, retired from the national team.

[Hair Canada]

I can give you guys an update on what Greece's roster at that qualifier tournament might look like. Rick Pitino, Greece's head coach, listed which players he will select for Greece at the qualification tournament:

Nick Calathes
Ioannis Papapetrou
Georgios Papagiannis
Georgios Printezis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Tyler Dorsey
Vassilis Spanoulis ("as the leader")

With the other players 5 to be picked at the team's training camp. No Antetokounmpos (including Giannis) were mentioned as being on the team. So basically, no NBA players. He didn't mention Kostas Sloukas, so I don't know if he just forgot him, if Sloukas does not want to play (there are rumors about him signing in the NBA), or if Pitino intends to replace his role on the team with Spanoulis. I am just going to assume that he forgot to mention him.

A few months ago, Nikos Zisis' agent said he would be coming back to the NT team after some years off, and that he would also be playing...so I guess the team with no injuries, or players opting out could look something like this:

PG Nick Calathes / Nikos Zisis
SG Vassilis Spanoulis / Kostas Sloukas
SF Kostas Papanikolaou / Tyler Dorsey
PF Georgios Printezis / Ioannis Papapetrou
C / Georgios Papagiannis

8 EuroLeague rotation players, plus Zisis, who has tons of prior EuroLeague experience.

So looks like they will be picking another center through the training camp. There is an opening at center on the team, because Ioannis Bourousis, who had been the NT's main center for many years, retired from the national team.

Thanks, Mirotic. This would be a team with tons of experience (FIBA and national team), which is really crucial in such a short tournament. And also some health talent. Some are clearly over the hill (Spanoulis will be 39, Zisis 38, and Printezis 36). But this can be a really good and cohesive team. I would argue that they would be the (clear) favorites against a Canadian team likely missing its NBA players, even though the tournament will be played in Canada.

[Mirotic12]

Some NBA owners want to make a permanent shift to a later start and end to the season. Would rather compete against mideason MLB in July/August than NFL/college football in Nov/Dec. Also want more space between March Madness and NBA playoffs.

Having to shift 20/21 season as a result of COVID-19 is good catalyst to make permanent switch to having season run roughly Jan to Aug instead of Nov to June.

So, unless other leagues follow suit, there will be far fewer times of the year when all players would be available. Does not bode well for future participation. Olympic (and Worlds) basketball may be going in direction of Olympic hockey.

It's no secret that the NBA and FIBA want to make the Olympics an under-23 tournament, and want to get the US sports media and sports fans to start watching the FIBA World Cup. They have been getting ready to do that for years now. They would have already done it years ago actually, but when they first starting talking about it, US sports media went nuts complaining about it. Regardless, it's probably happening in the near future. FIBA even said they would go ahead with the change at the right time, even if meant that NBA players didn't play, and even if it caused the USA to drop out of tournaments.

They want it to be like football (soccer), where the actual real world championship of the sport is what's most important, and not as it is now, where the quite frankly watered down, weak, and small Olympics (only 12 teams) is getting all focus from the US market. And some NBA owners have also said that the US should be focusing on the FIBA World Cup and not the Olympics, because then they could get a much larger share of the TV revenues. It really makes no sense at all to have the system they have now.

[mojo13]

Mirotic- any rumors of the EuroLeague and the other European league adjusting their schedules at all?

[mojo13]

And what do you guys think is the best case scenario for a non-NBA Canadian roster?

Assuming we have full access to all non-NBA players, including G-Leaguers (no 2ways) maybe this:

Kevin Pangos, Nik Stauskas, Tyler Ennis, Phil Scrubb, Dylan Ennis
Thomas Scrubb, Dyshawn Pierre, Melvin Ejim, Andrew Nicholson, Kyle Wiltjer, Owen Klassen

Maybe some G-League/borderline NBA talent to pull from in the likes of Mulder, Kyle Alexander, Naz Long, Wigginton, Bennett, Jackson etc. Aaron Doornekamp and Andy Rautins remain out there too as decently high level Euro vets. Kenny Cherry, Kassius Robertson and Oliver Hanlan were having solid seasons in Europe too.

Even getting the best of the names above doesn't look too promising against a veteran Greek team, but perhaps we can pull some non-playoff-team NBA and 2way players? Based on this years standings that could include RJ Barrett, CoJo, TT, Mulder, NAW, Lyles & Wiggins. Won't be the same next year, but it gives a sampling that our depth bring in reinforcements if the timing works. A few of those guys included could turn the table.

[Hair Canada]

Ye, I think this roster looks like pretty much the best we can put out there without our NBA guys. Hopefully, some of the NBA players who finish the season early can play, but even that seems like a stretch if the league only starts again in December. Not a good look for us, as none of these guys is a high-caliber Euroleague player (Pangos is the closest to this level, but who knows how he comes back from his year-long injury).

In other news, it seems like Lindell Wigginton might be the first Canadian to come back to playing professional basketball in the post-COVID era. He just signed a contract with Nes-Ziona of the Israeli league, which is scheduled to finish its season starting mid-June. One of the very few leagues in Europe that did not decide to just cancel the season. We'll see if it actually happens.

[Mirotic12]

Mirotic- any rumors of the EuroLeague and the other European league adjusting their schedules at all?

Right now, no one knows what EuroLeague will do with their league and EuroCup. On the other hand, I think that FIBA will definitely do everything they can to adjust the Basketball Champions League, and to have the European national leagues do the same.

[Mirotic12]

And what do you guys think is the best case scenario for a non-NBA Canadian roster?

Assuming we have full access to all non-NBA players, including G-Leaguers (no 2ways) maybe this:

Kevin Pangos, Nik Stauskas, Tyler Ennis, Phil Scrubb, Dylan Ennis
Thomas Scrubb, Dyshawn Pierre, Melvin Ejim, Andrew Nicholson, Kyle Wiltjer, Owen Klassen

Maybe some G-League/borderline NBA talent to pull from in the likes of Mulder, Kyle Alexander, Naz Long, Wigginton, Bennett, Jackson etc. Aaron Doornekamp and Andy Rautins remain out there too as decently high level Euro vets. Kenny Cherry, Kassius Robertson and Oliver Hanlan were having solid seasons in Europe too.

Even getting the best of the names above doesn't look too promising against a veteran Greek team, but perhaps we can pull some non-playoff-team NBA and 2way players? Based on this years standings that could include RJ Barrett, CoJo, TT, Mulder, NAW, Lyles & Wiggins. Won't be the same next year, but it gives a sampling that our depth bring in reinforcements if the timing works. A few of those guys included could turn the table.

As far as the Canadians playing in Europe are concerned, if I was selecting Canada's team, I wouldn't want any of the players I put in bold to be on the team. And Thomas Scrubb is pretty questionable also. Of those guys that you listed, I would try to stick to these players:

Kevin Pangos
Nik Stauskas
Tyler Ennis
Phil Scrubb
Dylan Ennis
Melvin Ejim
Andrew Nicholson
Kyle Wiltjer
Aaron Doornekamp

And try to mix them with some NBA players that didn't make the playoffs if you could. If not, then I guess you would need guys like T. Scrubb, Pierre, Klassen, and Rautins.

They said Pangos had an ankle surgery and then he never played this season, and it didn't even seem he was coming back either. Other than G-League, Tyler Ennis hasn't shown anything since he had that ankle injury in 2018.

Ejim had some kind of minor injury, and he looked worse this last season. If it was this summer, those three guys might not contribute anything, but they should be healthy by next summer, or at least I would think so (barring any new injuries of course).

[Mirotic12]

To give a better comparison to what Greece's team might look like - taking what Pitino said, then adding players I would select in addition to that (no NBA players)...I would add these guys in:

Kostas Sloukas
Lefteris Bochoridis
Linos Chrysikopoulos
Giannoulis Larentzakis
Dimitris Agravanis

And then also most likely players Pitino would probably pick (played in NBA), that he would know of.

Kosta Koufos

Personally, I wouldn't select Kosta Koufos, and I would also prefer if Tyler Dorsey wasn't on the team. But Pitino already said Dorsey would be on the team if he wants to, and I am sure they probably add Koufos to replace Ioannis Bourousis at center. I myself would prefer to have Dimitris Agravanis over Koufos at center, and Lefteris Bochoridis over Dorsey at guard, but I am sure those guys that played in NBA will get preference in the selections.

So the team could conceivably look something like (most likely):

PG Nick Calathes / Nikos Zisis
SG Vassilis Spanoulis / Kostas Sloukas / Tyler Dorsey
SF Kostas Papanikolaou / Giannoulis Larentzakis
PF Georgios Printezis / Ioannis Papapetrou
C Kosta Koufos / Georgios Papagiannis

With one of either Dimitris Agravanis or Linos Chrysikopoulos added in. If they don't select Agravanis, then the center position will be awful in terms of cover screen and roll and switches. I have a feeling that Pitino will go for Koufos and Papagiannis as a combo at center though, since he loves those old school centers.

[BilboBanginz]

I have always been an advocate for making the World Cup the premier international basketball tournament. The Olympics having only 12 teams always seemed so limiting. A 32 team World Cup has potential for more upsets and "Cinderella runs." Also, an U-23 Olympics would be fun in it's own right. I think Canada would have qualified for a lot more Olympics if it was U-23 since our youth teams do so well.

[mojo13]

And what do you guys think is the best case scenario for a non-NBA Canadian roster?

Assuming we have full access to all non-NBA players, including G-Leaguers (no 2ways) maybe this:

Kevin Pangos, Nik Stauskas, Tyler Ennis, Phil Scrubb, Dylan Ennis
Thomas Scrubb, Dyshawn Pierre, Melvin Ejim, Andrew Nicholson, Kyle Wiltjer, Owen Klassen

Maybe some G-League/borderline NBA talent to pull from in the likes of Mulder, Kyle Alexander, Naz Long, Wigginton, Bennett, Jackson etc. Aaron Doornekamp and Andy Rautins remain out there too as decently high level Euro vets. Kenny Cherry, Kassius Robertson and Oliver Hanlan were having solid seasons in Europe too.

Even getting the best of the names above doesn't look too promising against a veteran Greek team, but perhaps we can pull some non-playoff-team NBA and 2way players? Based on this years standings that could include RJ Barrett, CoJo, TT, Mulder, NAW, Lyles & Wiggins. Won't be the same next year, but it gives a sampling that our depth bring in reinforcements if the timing works. A few of those guys included could turn the table.

As far as the Canadians playing in Europe are concerned, if I was selecting Canada's team, I wouldn't want any of the players I put in bold to be on the team. And Thomas Scrubb is pretty questionable also. Of those guys that you listed, I would try to stick to these players:

Kevin Pangos
Nik Stauskas
Tyler Ennis
Phil Scrubb
Dylan Ennis
Melvin Ejim
Andrew Nicholson
Kyle Wiltjer
Aaron Doornekamp

And try to mix them with some NBA players that didn't make the playoffs if you could. If not, then I guess you would need guys like T. Scrubb, Pierre, Klassen, and Rautins.

They said Pangos had an ankle surgery and then he never played this season, and it didn't even seem he was coming back either. Other than G-League, Tyler Ennis hasn't shown anything since he had that ankle injury in 2018.

Ejim had some kind of minor injury, and he looked worse this last season. If it was this summer, those three guys might not contribute anything, but they should be healthy by next summer, or at least I would think so (barring any new injuries of course).

I'm generally in agreement. I routinely list Thomas Scrubb as we are pretty week at that SF position and has has had a consistent role with Canada historically. Even a starter when some of the NBA players show up. I admit though, he is more a default than anything. He really looked in over his head at the 2019 WCs, but has at times looked pretty good for Canada, especially in some of the WC Qualifier games. Buy yeah, he would seem a weak spot at the Qualfier level. I'd take Doornekamp over him, but he hasnt played since 2015 now.

I'm also more interested in Dyshawn Pierre. He has had a few chances with the SMNT in the WC Qualifiers and wasn't very impressive (perhaps he wasn't given enough of a role to show his worth). However he was having a MVP caliber season in the BCL and really looked like he took a big step forward as a leader with Sassari. I think the big jumped was driven by him really finding his 3pt shot this season which opened things up for him (45% on 1.7 made 3s a game). I am curious if you have seen him play this season and your impression. Historically has was more of an undersized PF in the mold of Melvin Ejim (both probably are too small to be effective at the highest levels) but if his now more of a wing player, a role we desperately need, he could be a key player. Is he playing more of wing role now?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/dyshawn-pierre-1.html


Tyler Ennis looked ok in the G-League this season. There were rumors swirling about EuroLeague teams offering contracts that he turned down as he was holding out for the NBA. Olympiacos and Macaabi were the ones I heard most often. I don't think he is a game changer, but he is a competent PG (not a good shooter) and one more high-ish level player to add to the mix.

And Pangos was done for the season with the foot injury. He will not be back for Barca (not a good stint with them) but I heard Valencia is chasing him as well as Macaabi.

[Mirotic12]

I'm generally in agreement. I routinely list Thomas Scrubb as we are pretty week at that SF position and has has had a consistent role with Canada historically. Even a starter when some of the NBA players show up. I admit though, he is more a default than anything. He really looked in over his head at the 2019 WCs, but has at times looked pretty good for Canada, especially in some of the WC Qualifier games. Buy yeah, he would seem a weak spot at the Qualfier level. I'd take Doornekamp over him, but he hasnt played since 2015 now.

I'm also more interested in Dyshawn Pierre. He has had a few chances with the SMNT in the WC Qualifiers and wasn't very impressive (perhaps he wasn't given enough of a role to show his worth). However he was having a MVP caliber season in the BCL and really looked like he took a big step forward as a leader with Sassari. I think the big jumped was driven by him really finding his 3pt shot this season which opened things up for him (45% on 1.7 made 3s a game). I am curious if you have seen him play this season and your impression. Historically has was more of an undersized PF in the mold of Melvin Ejim (both probably are too small to be effective at the highest levels) but if his now more of a wing player, a role we desperately need, he could be a key player. Is he playing more of wing role now?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/dyshawn-pierre-1.html


Tyler Ennis looked ok in the G-League this season. There were rumors swirling about EuroLeague teams offering contracts that he turned down as he was holding out for the NBA. Olympiacos and Macaabi were the ones I heard most often. I don't think he is a game changer, but he is a competent PG (not a good shooter) and one more high-ish level player to add to the mix.

And Pangos was done for the season with the foot injury. He will not be back for Barca (not a good stint with them) but I heard Valencia is chasing him as well as Macaabi.

I don't recall watching any of Sassari's games in BCL this season. I may have though. I'm basing Pierre off when I have previously seen him play over the years. Whenever I watched him play, I was never in the least bit impressed with him at all.

I seem to recall that Tyler Ennis was offered a contract by Maccabi and that he failed his physical and workout with the team, and that was why he went to the G-League. Olympaicos obviously wouldn't have signed him after that. I don't recall hearing they had interest in him, although they signed Wade Baldwin, who is a similar type of player, so it would make sense I guess.

[mojo13]

I'm generally in agreement. I routinely list Thomas Scrubb as we are pretty week at that SF position and has has had a consistent role with Canada historically. Even a starter when some of the NBA players show up. I admit though, he is more a default than anything. He really looked in over his head at the 2019 WCs, but has at times looked pretty good for Canada, especially in some of the WC Qualifier games. Buy yeah, he would seem a weak spot at the Qualfier level. I'd take Doornekamp over him, but he hasnt played since 2015 now.

I'm also more interested in Dyshawn Pierre. He has had a few chances with the SMNT in the WC Qualifiers and wasn't very impressive (perhaps he wasn't given enough of a role to show his worth). However he was having a MVP caliber season in the BCL and really looked like he took a big step forward as a leader with Sassari. I think the big jumped was driven by him really finding his 3pt shot this season which opened things up for him (45% on 1.7 made 3s a game). I am curious if you have seen him play this season and your impression. Historically has was more of an undersized PF in the mold of Melvin Ejim (both probably are too small to be effective at the highest levels) but if his now more of a wing player, a role we desperately need, he could be a key player. Is he playing more of wing role now?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/players/dyshawn-pierre-1.html


Tyler Ennis looked ok in the G-League this season. There were rumors swirling about EuroLeague teams offering contracts that he turned down as he was holding out for the NBA. Olympiacos and Macaabi were the ones I heard most often. I don't think he is a game changer, but he is a competent PG (not a good shooter) and one more high-ish level player to add to the mix.

And Pangos was done for the season with the foot injury. He will not be back for Barca (not a good stint with them) but I heard Valencia is chasing him as well as Macaabi.

I don't recall watching any of Sassari's games in BCL this season. I may have though. I'm basing Pierre off when I have previously seen him play over the years. Whenever I watched him play, I was never in the least bit impressed with him at all.

I seem to recall that Tyler Ennis was offered a contract by Maccabi and that he failed his physical and workout with the team, and that was why he went to the G-League. Olympaicos obviously wouldn't have signed him after that. I don't recall hearing they had interest in him, although they signed Wade Baldwin, who is a similar type of player, so it would make sense I guess.

With Ennis this was mid-season - in the December Maccabi was rumored to again be interested after he had proven himself recovered from injury in the G-League. Maccabi ended up signing Aaron Jackson instead. Olympiacos and Baskonia were looking at him in February but nothing came of it. Rumor was he was offered, but wanted to stay and try for some 10 day contract opportunities in the NBA (which didn't happen).

Oly and Baskonia are again looking at him for next season (these are mostly just Twitter rumors, so who knows how serious).

[Raptorfan2012]

Wonder if the Raptors will give Ennis a two-way contract to be our third pg next season. I know the guy got injured, but Masai was pretty high on him during the draft. He was doing alright with the 905.

[mojo13]

Wonder if the Raptors will give Ennis a two-way contract to be our third pg next season. I know the guy got injured, but Masai was pretty high on him during the draft. He was doing alright with the 905.

He sees too old, mature, a finished product for a two-way contract.
I thought they were intended for players within there first few years out of school. Plus Ennis could get way more money from a EL team.

Maybe Nembhard is more likely to scoop up a two-way as he goes undrafted.

[Mirotic12]

With Ennis this was mid-season - in the December Maccabi was rumored to again be interested after he had proven himself recovered from injury in the G-League. Maccabi ended up signing Aaron Jackson instead. Olympiacos and Baskonia were looking at him in February but nothing came of it. Rumor was he was offered, but wanted to stay and try for some 10 day contract opportunities in the NBA (which didn't happen).

Oly and Baskonia are again looking at him for next season (these are mostly just Twitter rumors, so who knows how serious).

Olympiacos and Maccabi both had a bunch of injuries mid season, and both teams had more than one guard out. And by that time, Baskonia was without both of their main two point guards, due to injuries. So that makes sense. If it's true Baskonia and Olympiacos are considering him for next season, he definitely should go with Baskonia.

Olympiacos already has Vassilis Spanoulis, Wade Baldwin, Antonis Koniaris, and Shaq McKissic signed at guard spots. Plus they offered contracts to Malcom Delaney, Nick Calathes and Ryan Broekhoff. In addition to that they have two of the best young guards in Europe in Alex Nikolaidis and Nikos Arsenopoulos. I assume they won't bring back Taylor Rochestie, since he's clearly coming to the last of his career. But if they get just one player of Delaney, Calathes, or Broekhoff, I see no playing time at all for Ennis.

[mtr15]

According to Elijah Fisher, he has grown by an extra inch since the end of his season in March and is now 6’7” and weighs 215 lbs.

https://www.si.com/college/recruiting/basketball/elijah-fisher-blog-2023-canada-quarantine-covid19-recruiting-college-basketball

[BilboBanginz]

The "Swish" Youtube channel has some great NCAA highlights reels of wide variety of propects. Hopefully they don't get taken down.

Here are some Canadians:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube