Official Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Vaclac]

^ i think we're getting way too cocky here.

im no doctor, but a setting like trinity bellwoods is the perfect recipe for spreading the virus. how did it spread in wuhan? inside? outside? crowds? a mixture of everything.

just look at the countries that have been successful in dealing with this, and their funding situation isnt as great as ours.

countries like greece told everyone to eff off and stay at home and actually enforced it. here in ontario we are approaching 30k and mfers wanna crowd up in a park oh because its awesome for your health. i can only imagine how sensitive people would be if they actually enforced a curfew to keep numbers at minimum.

this was supposed to help us develop some thick skin for future disasters, but oh we so aint ready.

How did it spread in China? Turns out people have actually looked into that and it was nearly 100% inside. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.04.20053058v1
I wasn't basing my statement on random beliefs but actual studies like above. Out of 1245 cases studied in that study, 2 occurred outside.

[BBallInSight]

I made a comment in the other thread that the numbers weren't much worse that a bad flu season. Someone said that you couldn't compare because it would have been much worse if we didn't lock down. To that I say this thing was around in December or January and was spreading for months before the lockdown. If it was really that dangerous, the hospitals would have been filled. They claimed they were, but they weren't. Their published numbers confirm this fact. The CDC admitted today that they were combining serology and PCR test numbers, which would have made the virus appear to be spreading, when in fact it had already gone through the population.

99% of confirmed cases in Sweden have mild symptoms. That means the percentage of people in the population with serious symptoms is much lower, as they're not factoring in unidentified, largely asymptomatic cases. This is true for other areas - many of which have reversed the lockdown and have not seen the apocalypse.

Even now as they claim the virus is spreading exponentially because of mother's day, the truth is that the number of people in the hospital with covid has held steady. In fact, the number of people in the hospital went down yesterday by 23 from the day before.

In Ontario's daily reporting, a death of a confirmed case is labelled a Covid death regardless of the cause of death. As in, if you had stage 4 cancer and acquired it the day before you died, it's a Covid death. In long term care facilities a death is a covid death even if there's no test performed, as long as the patient had a single symptom. An outbreak at a long term care facility is considered a single patient with a confirmed test. It's these sorts of misrepresentations of the facts that's striking fear in the population. You can look up these facts in their documentation.

This was discussed pages ago...why does this keep getting rehashed?

IF you test positve develop symptoms of covid and it causes you have shortness of breath/heart attack/stroke/pulmonary embolism/pneumonia (because covid has been known to cause ALL of the above) and die whereas you might not have had those and otherwise would have lived a few months longer...of course it's **** covid death.

The only one trying to misread the numbers is YOU. There is no documentation that indicates that covid deaths in long term care facilities weren't confirmed by test. Of all places...those would be easy to tell. That said....what do you think caused the mass deaths of thousands of nursing home residents within 2 months during a pandemic? You think it was coinicidence? Do you think it was the flu? You think that isn't suspicious for something? This amount of death in these facilities isn't just an every day occurence and it while there are flu outbreaks during flu season...IT DOESN'T RESULT IN THIS AMOUNT OF DEATH. And it isn't even just the residents that died...it's the staff: nursings, personal support workers, military personnel who are there helping...how the **** do you think 28 military personnel got covid (just reported in the last 2 days...my source is CP24) while working in nursing homes?

There are nursing homes in which 30-40 of 60 residents died...is that not considered an outbreak?

Tell me...which nursing homes have a single case and is misrepresented as an outbreak...otherwise stop spreading BS.

And....Sweden has 7000 more cases than Ontario does, despite Ontario as a province having almost 5 million more people than the population of Sweden. And as of right now...Ontario has 2157 deaths...Sweden has 3992 deaths...just about twice the number of deaths as Ontario. Tell me you wouldn't sacrifice 2000 more lives (one of those could be yours) just so that you can have a beer on a patio or pretend this doesn't exist. And yet...Sweden isn't doing better than any of their Scandinavian neighbours...Norway and Denmark all have lower numbers...so maybe telling us how great Sweden's doing isn't such a good idea.

You are SPECULATING that this thing has been around in December. You have no idea...and so I don't care about your speculation.

And our hospital system could have been as bad as NYC, Italy and Spain...but lockdown measures helped to prevent that. Do you want the hospital systems to be overwhelmed before you decide that this is real? Would that prove it to you? I'm happy we haven't filled our hospital up until now...but any degree of increased stupidity going forward can tip the balance. What makes you think that we can't end up like NYC, Italy and Spain?

Proof is out there in a world...this is not a good time to be a covid-denier. I suggest you head over to your nearest nursing home or long term care facility...ask a resident or nurse to cough on you. Maybe you'd rather visit one of the many covid testing centres and ask anyone in line to cough on you. If it's not as bad as you think it is...the numbers and facts are on your side...right? Are you brave enough to put your money where your mouth is (which is with distance of a sick person's cough)?

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/2019_long_term_care_guidance.pdf
- LTCHs must consider a single, laboratory confirmed case of COVID-19 in a resident or staff member as a confirmed COVID-19 outbreak in the LTCH.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-ontario-is-responding-covid-19
- The iPHIS data includes all outbreak-related cases and deaths reported in aggregate outbreak summary counts, regardless of whether the case was laboratory confirmed.

On the page, there's a long list of LTCH units in Outbreak that have fewer than 5 cases, and no deaths (they don't show the exact number if the number is less than 5, but I would assume many have 1).

Here's an interesting fact on that page:
Confirmed Cases for LTC Staff 1650
Total confirmed LTC staff deaths <5

That's 0.003, or .3% (at most, and 0.06% at minimum). So in the worst case scenario whereby one is in the thick of an outbreak, the death rate of healthy people is between .6 and 3 in a 1000. Again, worth imploding society for?

From that page, here's a list of facilities that were formerly said to be in Outbreak. The first number is the number of cases there (I imagine probable cases, which in LTCH means at least 1 Covid symptom), and the second is the number of deaths there. So not a single death in all of these "Outbreak" facilities.

Allendale Milton 200 0
Avalon Retirement Centre Orangeville 137 0
Bay Ridges Pickering 124 0
Belmont House Toronto 140 0
Belmont Long Term Care Facility Belleville 128 0
Bendale Acres Scarborough 302 0
Blue Water Rest Home Zurich 65 0
Bonnechere Manor Renfrew 180 0
Braemar Retirement Centre Wingham 69 0
Brucelea Haven Long Term Care Home - Corporation of the County of Bruce Walkerton 144 0
Caressant Care Courtland Courtland 55 0
Caressant Care Fergus Nursing Home Fergus 87 0
Caressant Care on Bonnie Place St Thomas 116 0
Case Manor Care Community Bobcaygeon 96 0
Cassellholme North Bay 240 0
Castleview Wychwood Towers Toronto 456 0
Cedarvale Terrace Toronto 218 0
Centre d'Accueil Champlain Vanier 160 0
Centre d'Accueil Roger Seguin Clarence Creek 113 0
Chartwell Elmira Long Term Care Residence Elmira 48 0
Chartwell Waterford Long Term Care Residence Oakville 168 0
Chelsey Park London 247 0
Clarion Nursing Home Stoney Creek 100 0
Copernicus Lodge Toronto 228 0
Country Terrace Komoka 120 0
Dom Lipa Etobicoke 66 0
Douglas H. Rapelje Lodge Welland 120 0
Earls Court Village London 128 0
Ehatare Nursing Home Scarborough 32 0
Elmwood Place London 90 0
Exeter Villa Exeter 47 0
Extendicare Lakefield Lakefield 100 0
Extendicare Rouge Valley Toronto 192 0
Extendicare Starwood Nepean 192 0
Extendicare West End Villa Ottawa 242 0
Extendicare York Sudbury 288 0
Fountain View Care Community East York 158 0
Franklin Gardens Long Term Care Home Leamington 120 0
Garden City Manor St. Catharines 200 0
Gardenview Long Term Care Home Townsend 64 0
Garry J. Armstrong Home Ottawa 180 0
Golden Dawn Nursing Home Lion's Head 45 0
Golden Manor Timmins 177 0
Golden Years Nursing Home Cambridge 88 0
Grace Villa Nursing Home Hamilton 184 0
Greenwood Court Stratford 45 <5
Hallowell House Picton 97 0
Hastings Manor Home for the Aged Belleville 253 <5
Heritage Green Nursing Home Stoney Creek 167 <5
Hillside Manor Stratford 90 0
Hogarth Riverview Manor Thunder Bay 543 0
Idlewyld Manor Hamilton 192 0
IOOF Seniors Home Barrie 182 0
Labdara Lithuanian Nursing Home Etobicoke 90 0
Lakeview Manor Beaverton 149 0
Lambton Meadowview Villa Petrolia 125 0
Lanark Heights Long Term Care Centre Kitchener 160 0
Leamington Mennonite Home Long Term Care Residence Leamington 84 0
Maple View Owen Sound 29 0
McCall Centre Long Term Care Interim Unit Etobicoke 21 0
Miramichi Lodge Pembroke 166 0
Moira Place Long-Term Care Home Tweed 128 0
Mount Hope Centre for Long Term Care London 394 0
North Park Nursing Home North York 75 0
Northridge Oakville 133 0
Northview Nursing Home Englehart 48 0
peopleCare Oakcrossing London London 160 0
Pinehaven Nursing Home Waterloo 84 0
Pioneer Manor Sudbury 433 0
Providence Manor Kingston 243 0
Regina Gardens Hamilton 128 0
Riverview Manor Nursing Home Peterborough 124 0
Rosebridge Manor Jasper 78 0
Royal Terrace Palmerston 67 0
Saint Luke's Place Cambridge 114 0
Shalom Manor Long Term Care Home Grimsby 144 0
Shepherd Lodge Toronto 252 0
Sherwood Court Long Term Care Centre Maple 96 0
Southlake Residential Care Village Newmarket 224 0
Spencer House Orillia 160 0
Sprucedale Care Centre Strathroy 96 0
St. Andrew's Terrace Long Term Care Community Cambridge 128 0
St. Gabriel's Villa of Sudbury Chelmsford 128 0
St. Joseph's Lifecare Centre Brantford 205 0
St. Joseph's Villa, Dundas Dundas 425 0
Stirling Heights Cambridge 110 0
Strathcona Long Term Care Mount Forest 87 0
Sumac Lodge Sarnia 100 0
Sunnycrest Nursing Home Whitby 136 0
Telfer Place Paris 45 0
Temiskaming Lodge Haileybury 83 0
The Henley House St. Catharines 160 0
The Village at St. Clair Windsor 256 0
The Village at University Gates Waterloo 192 0
The Village of Riverside Glen Guelph 192 0
The Village of Wentworth Heights Hamilton 120 0
The Wexford Scarborough 166 0
The Woodlands of Sunset Welland 121 0
Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans' Care Toronto 100 0
Twin Oaks of Maryhill Maryhill 31 0
Villa Marconi Ottawa 128 0
Wellington Terrace Long-Term Care Home Fergus 176 0
Wentworth Lodge Dundas 160 0
Wikwemikong Nursing Home Wikwemikong 59 0
Winbourne Park Ajax 110 0
Woodland Villa Long Sault 111 0
Woods Park Care Centre Barrie 123 0
Yee Hong Centre - Markham Markham 200 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough Finch Scarborough 250 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough McNicoll Scarborough 155 0

So, on the news you'll hear about facilities in outbreak and deaths due to covid there, when in reality there may be one confirmed case, and many very old people dying with no evidence that the deaths are due to covid.

I'm not saying people aren't dying. People die of the flu, a lot of them.

[mtcan]

I made a comment in the other thread that the numbers weren't much worse that a bad flu season. Someone said that you couldn't compare because it would have been much worse if we didn't lock down. To that I say this thing was around in December or January and was spreading for months before the lockdown. If it was really that dangerous, the hospitals would have been filled. They claimed they were, but they weren't. Their published numbers confirm this fact. The CDC admitted today that they were combining serology and PCR test numbers, which would have made the virus appear to be spreading, when in fact it had already gone through the population.

99% of confirmed cases in Sweden have mild symptoms. That means the percentage of people in the population with serious symptoms is much lower, as they're not factoring in unidentified, largely asymptomatic cases. This is true for other areas - many of which have reversed the lockdown and have not seen the apocalypse.

Even now as they claim the virus is spreading exponentially because of mother's day, the truth is that the number of people in the hospital with covid has held steady. In fact, the number of people in the hospital went down yesterday by 23 from the day before.

In Ontario's daily reporting, a death of a confirmed case is labelled a Covid death regardless of the cause of death. As in, if you had stage 4 cancer and acquired it the day before you died, it's a Covid death. In long term care facilities a death is a covid death even if there's no test performed, as long as the patient had a single symptom. An outbreak at a long term care facility is considered a single patient with a confirmed test. It's these sorts of misrepresentations of the facts that's striking fear in the population. You can look up these facts in their documentation.

This was discussed pages ago...why does this keep getting rehashed?

IF you test positve develop symptoms of covid and it causes you have shortness of breath/heart attack/stroke/pulmonary embolism/pneumonia (because covid has been known to cause ALL of the above) and die whereas you might not have had those and otherwise would have lived a few months longer...of course it's **** covid death.

The only one trying to misread the numbers is YOU. There is no documentation that indicates that covid deaths in long term care facilities weren't confirmed by test. Of all places...those would be easy to tell. That said....what do you think caused the mass deaths of thousands of nursing home residents within 2 months during a pandemic? You think it was coinicidence? Do you think it was the flu? You think that isn't suspicious for something? This amount of death in these facilities isn't just an every day occurence and it while there are flu outbreaks during flu season...IT DOESN'T RESULT IN THIS AMOUNT OF DEATH. And it isn't even just the residents that died...it's the staff: nursings, personal support workers, military personnel who are there helping...how the **** do you think 28 military personnel got covid (just reported in the last 2 days...my source is CP24) while working in nursing homes?

There are nursing homes in which 30-40 of 60 residents died...is that not considered an outbreak?

Tell me...which nursing homes have a single case and is misrepresented as an outbreak...otherwise stop spreading BS.

And....Sweden has 7000 more cases than Ontario does, despite Ontario as a province having almost 5 million more people than the population of Sweden. And as of right now...Ontario has 2157 deaths...Sweden has 3992 deaths...just about twice the number of deaths as Ontario. Tell me you wouldn't sacrifice 2000 more lives (one of those could be yours) just so that you can have a beer on a patio or pretend this doesn't exist. And yet...Sweden isn't doing better than any of their Scandinavian neighbours...Norway and Denmark all have lower numbers...so maybe telling us how great Sweden's doing isn't such a good idea.

You are SPECULATING that this thing has been around in December. You have no idea...and so I don't care about your speculation.

And our hospital system could have been as bad as NYC, Italy and Spain...but lockdown measures helped to prevent that. Do you want the hospital systems to be overwhelmed before you decide that this is real? Would that prove it to you? I'm happy we haven't filled our hospital up until now...but any degree of increased stupidity going forward can tip the balance. What makes you think that we can't end up like NYC, Italy and Spain?

Proof is out there in a world...this is not a good time to be a covid-denier. I suggest you head over to your nearest nursing home or long term care facility...ask a resident or nurse to cough on you. Maybe you'd rather visit one of the many covid testing centres and ask anyone in line to cough on you. If it's not as bad as you think it is...the numbers and facts are on your side...right? Are you brave enough to put your money where your mouth is (which is with distance of a sick person's cough)?

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/2019_long_term_care_guidance.pdf
- LTCHs must consider a single, laboratory confirmed case of COVID-19 in a resident or staff member as a confirmed COVID-19 outbreak in the LTCH.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-ontario-is-responding-covid-19
- The iPHIS data includes all outbreak-related cases and deaths reported in aggregate outbreak summary counts, regardless of whether the case was laboratory confirmed.

On the page, there's a long list of LTCH units in Outbreak that have fewer than 5 cases, and no deaths (they don't show the exact number if the number is less than 5, but I would assume many have 1).

Here's an interesting fact on that page:
Confirmed Cases for LTC Staff 1650
Total confirmed LTC staff deaths <5

That's 0.003, or .3% (at most, and 0.06% at minimum). So in the worst case scenario whereby one is in the thick of an outbreak, the death rate of healthy people is between .6 and 3 in a 1000. Again, worth imploding society for?

From that page, here's a list of facilities that were formerly said to be in Outbreak. The first number is the number of cases there (I imagine probable cases, which in LTCH means at least 1 Covid symptom), and the second is the number of deaths there. So not a single death in all of these "Outbreak" facilities.

Allendale Milton 200 0
Avalon Retirement Centre Orangeville 137 0
Bay Ridges Pickering 124 0
Belmont House Toronto 140 0
Belmont Long Term Care Facility Belleville 128 0
Bendale Acres Scarborough 302 0
Blue Water Rest Home Zurich 65 0
Bonnechere Manor Renfrew 180 0
Braemar Retirement Centre Wingham 69 0
Brucelea Haven Long Term Care Home - Corporation of the County of Bruce Walkerton 144 0
Caressant Care Courtland Courtland 55 0
Caressant Care Fergus Nursing Home Fergus 87 0
Caressant Care on Bonnie Place St Thomas 116 0
Case Manor Care Community Bobcaygeon 96 0
Cassellholme North Bay 240 0
Castleview Wychwood Towers Toronto 456 0
Cedarvale Terrace Toronto 218 0
Centre d'Accueil Champlain Vanier 160 0
Centre d'Accueil Roger Seguin Clarence Creek 113 0
Chartwell Elmira Long Term Care Residence Elmira 48 0
Chartwell Waterford Long Term Care Residence Oakville 168 0
Chelsey Park London 247 0
Clarion Nursing Home Stoney Creek 100 0
Copernicus Lodge Toronto 228 0
Country Terrace Komoka 120 0
Dom Lipa Etobicoke 66 0
Douglas H. Rapelje Lodge Welland 120 0
Earls Court Village London 128 0
Ehatare Nursing Home Scarborough 32 0
Elmwood Place London 90 0
Exeter Villa Exeter 47 0
Extendicare Lakefield Lakefield 100 0
Extendicare Rouge Valley Toronto 192 0
Extendicare Starwood Nepean 192 0
Extendicare West End Villa Ottawa 242 0
Extendicare York Sudbury 288 0
Fountain View Care Community East York 158 0
Franklin Gardens Long Term Care Home Leamington 120 0
Garden City Manor St. Catharines 200 0
Gardenview Long Term Care Home Townsend 64 0
Garry J. Armstrong Home Ottawa 180 0
Golden Dawn Nursing Home Lion's Head 45 0
Golden Manor Timmins 177 0
Golden Years Nursing Home Cambridge 88 0
Grace Villa Nursing Home Hamilton 184 0
Greenwood Court Stratford 45 <5
Hallowell House Picton 97 0
Hastings Manor Home for the Aged Belleville 253 <5
Heritage Green Nursing Home Stoney Creek 167 <5
Hillside Manor Stratford 90 0
Hogarth Riverview Manor Thunder Bay 543 0
Idlewyld Manor Hamilton 192 0
IOOF Seniors Home Barrie 182 0
Labdara Lithuanian Nursing Home Etobicoke 90 0
Lakeview Manor Beaverton 149 0
Lambton Meadowview Villa Petrolia 125 0
Lanark Heights Long Term Care Centre Kitchener 160 0
Leamington Mennonite Home Long Term Care Residence Leamington 84 0
Maple View Owen Sound 29 0
McCall Centre Long Term Care Interim Unit Etobicoke 21 0
Miramichi Lodge Pembroke 166 0
Moira Place Long-Term Care Home Tweed 128 0
Mount Hope Centre for Long Term Care London 394 0
North Park Nursing Home North York 75 0
Northridge Oakville 133 0
Northview Nursing Home Englehart 48 0
peopleCare Oakcrossing London London 160 0
Pinehaven Nursing Home Waterloo 84 0
Pioneer Manor Sudbury 433 0
Providence Manor Kingston 243 0
Regina Gardens Hamilton 128 0
Riverview Manor Nursing Home Peterborough 124 0
Rosebridge Manor Jasper 78 0
Royal Terrace Palmerston 67 0
Saint Luke's Place Cambridge 114 0
Shalom Manor Long Term Care Home Grimsby 144 0
Shepherd Lodge Toronto 252 0
Sherwood Court Long Term Care Centre Maple 96 0
Southlake Residential Care Village Newmarket 224 0
Spencer House Orillia 160 0
Sprucedale Care Centre Strathroy 96 0
St. Andrew's Terrace Long Term Care Community Cambridge 128 0
St. Gabriel's Villa of Sudbury Chelmsford 128 0
St. Joseph's Lifecare Centre Brantford 205 0
St. Joseph's Villa, Dundas Dundas 425 0
Stirling Heights Cambridge 110 0
Strathcona Long Term Care Mount Forest 87 0
Sumac Lodge Sarnia 100 0
Sunnycrest Nursing Home Whitby 136 0
Telfer Place Paris 45 0
Temiskaming Lodge Haileybury 83 0
The Henley House St. Catharines 160 0
The Village at St. Clair Windsor 256 0
The Village at University Gates Waterloo 192 0
The Village of Riverside Glen Guelph 192 0
The Village of Wentworth Heights Hamilton 120 0
The Wexford Scarborough 166 0
The Woodlands of Sunset Welland 121 0
Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans' Care Toronto 100 0
Twin Oaks of Maryhill Maryhill 31 0
Villa Marconi Ottawa 128 0
Wellington Terrace Long-Term Care Home Fergus 176 0
Wentworth Lodge Dundas 160 0
Wikwemikong Nursing Home Wikwemikong 59 0
Winbourne Park Ajax 110 0
Woodland Villa Long Sault 111 0
Woods Park Care Centre Barrie 123 0
Yee Hong Centre - Markham Markham 200 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough Finch Scarborough 250 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough McNicoll Scarborough 155 0

So, on the news you'll hear about facilities in outbreak and deaths due to covid there, when in reality there may be one confirmed case, and many very old people dying with no evidence that the deaths are due to covid.

I'm not saying people aren't dying. People die of the flu, a lot of them.

Its all semantics. Whether you choose to call it an outbreak, a banana or an albatross...a positive case or 10 or 30 positive cases are still cases. And deaths are happening regardless of what you prefer to call it. I'm not sure the point of your playing with the definition of an outbreak. I'm more concerned about cases and deaths instead of labels.

And yes I'm far less concerned about the outbreaks of 1 case...but the media is obviously reporting on the outbreaks of 30-50 residents...and yes that is a big deal.

And I'm guessing you don't know someone living in one of these facilities but if you did...1 case in the nursing home has potential to spread like wild-fire...and if you have someone you care about in that place...you are **** bricks at the thought of that 1 case becoming 5-10-15-30-etc. cases and potentially reaching your loved one.

People don't consider people outside of themselves...this is a perfect example.

[Brinbe]

lmfao the gentrifiers at bellwoods getting sht on gives me a huge amount of pleasure. idiots all of them

[The Duke]

Case count will stay steady or go up slightly.
No government is trying to get case count to zero.

What matters is hospitalizations and deaths. If there is no drastic spike, sure things will continue to open up.

Good information to have is median age of active case, and if that number is dropping from April, than its a good sign.

[BBallInSight]

This was discussed pages ago...why does this keep getting rehashed?

IF you test positve develop symptoms of covid and it causes you have shortness of breath/heart attack/stroke/pulmonary embolism/pneumonia (because covid has been known to cause ALL of the above) and die whereas you might not have had those and otherwise would have lived a few months longer...of course it's **** covid death.

The only one trying to misread the numbers is YOU. There is no documentation that indicates that covid deaths in long term care facilities weren't confirmed by test. Of all places...those would be easy to tell. That said....what do you think caused the mass deaths of thousands of nursing home residents within 2 months during a pandemic? You think it was coinicidence? Do you think it was the flu? You think that isn't suspicious for something? This amount of death in these facilities isn't just an every day occurence and it while there are flu outbreaks during flu season...IT DOESN'T RESULT IN THIS AMOUNT OF DEATH. And it isn't even just the residents that died...it's the staff: nursings, personal support workers, military personnel who are there helping...how the **** do you think 28 military personnel got covid (just reported in the last 2 days...my source is CP24) while working in nursing homes?

There are nursing homes in which 30-40 of 60 residents died...is that not considered an outbreak?

Tell me...which nursing homes have a single case and is misrepresented as an outbreak...otherwise stop spreading BS.

And....Sweden has 7000 more cases than Ontario does, despite Ontario as a province having almost 5 million more people than the population of Sweden. And as of right now...Ontario has 2157 deaths...Sweden has 3992 deaths...just about twice the number of deaths as Ontario. Tell me you wouldn't sacrifice 2000 more lives (one of those could be yours) just so that you can have a beer on a patio or pretend this doesn't exist. And yet...Sweden isn't doing better than any of their Scandinavian neighbours...Norway and Denmark all have lower numbers...so maybe telling us how great Sweden's doing isn't such a good idea.

You are SPECULATING that this thing has been around in December. You have no idea...and so I don't care about your speculation.

And our hospital system could have been as bad as NYC, Italy and Spain...but lockdown measures helped to prevent that. Do you want the hospital systems to be overwhelmed before you decide that this is real? Would that prove it to you? I'm happy we haven't filled our hospital up until now...but any degree of increased stupidity going forward can tip the balance. What makes you think that we can't end up like NYC, Italy and Spain?

Proof is out there in a world...this is not a good time to be a covid-denier. I suggest you head over to your nearest nursing home or long term care facility...ask a resident or nurse to cough on you. Maybe you'd rather visit one of the many covid testing centres and ask anyone in line to cough on you. If it's not as bad as you think it is...the numbers and facts are on your side...right? Are you brave enough to put your money where your mouth is (which is with distance of a sick person's cough)?

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/2019_long_term_care_guidance.pdf
- LTCHs must consider a single, laboratory confirmed case of COVID-19 in a resident or staff member as a confirmed COVID-19 outbreak in the LTCH.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-ontario-is-responding-covid-19
- The iPHIS data includes all outbreak-related cases and deaths reported in aggregate outbreak summary counts, regardless of whether the case was laboratory confirmed.

On the page, there's a long list of LTCH units in Outbreak that have fewer than 5 cases, and no deaths (they don't show the exact number if the number is less than 5, but I would assume many have 1).

Here's an interesting fact on that page:
Confirmed Cases for LTC Staff 1650
Total confirmed LTC staff deaths <5

That's 0.003, or .3% (at most, and 0.06% at minimum). So in the worst case scenario whereby one is in the thick of an outbreak, the death rate of healthy people is between .6 and 3 in a 1000. Again, worth imploding society for?

From that page, here's a list of facilities that were formerly said to be in Outbreak. The first number is the number of cases there (I imagine probable cases, which in LTCH means at least 1 Covid symptom), and the second is the number of deaths there. So not a single death in all of these "Outbreak" facilities.

Allendale Milton 200 0
Avalon Retirement Centre Orangeville 137 0
Bay Ridges Pickering 124 0
Belmont House Toronto 140 0
Belmont Long Term Care Facility Belleville 128 0
Bendale Acres Scarborough 302 0
Blue Water Rest Home Zurich 65 0
Bonnechere Manor Renfrew 180 0
Braemar Retirement Centre Wingham 69 0
Brucelea Haven Long Term Care Home - Corporation of the County of Bruce Walkerton 144 0
Caressant Care Courtland Courtland 55 0
Caressant Care Fergus Nursing Home Fergus 87 0
Caressant Care on Bonnie Place St Thomas 116 0
Case Manor Care Community Bobcaygeon 96 0
Cassellholme North Bay 240 0
Castleview Wychwood Towers Toronto 456 0
Cedarvale Terrace Toronto 218 0
Centre d'Accueil Champlain Vanier 160 0
Centre d'Accueil Roger Seguin Clarence Creek 113 0
Chartwell Elmira Long Term Care Residence Elmira 48 0
Chartwell Waterford Long Term Care Residence Oakville 168 0
Chelsey Park London 247 0
Clarion Nursing Home Stoney Creek 100 0
Copernicus Lodge Toronto 228 0
Country Terrace Komoka 120 0
Dom Lipa Etobicoke 66 0
Douglas H. Rapelje Lodge Welland 120 0
Earls Court Village London 128 0
Ehatare Nursing Home Scarborough 32 0
Elmwood Place London 90 0
Exeter Villa Exeter 47 0
Extendicare Lakefield Lakefield 100 0
Extendicare Rouge Valley Toronto 192 0
Extendicare Starwood Nepean 192 0
Extendicare West End Villa Ottawa 242 0
Extendicare York Sudbury 288 0
Fountain View Care Community East York 158 0
Franklin Gardens Long Term Care Home Leamington 120 0
Garden City Manor St. Catharines 200 0
Gardenview Long Term Care Home Townsend 64 0
Garry J. Armstrong Home Ottawa 180 0
Golden Dawn Nursing Home Lion's Head 45 0
Golden Manor Timmins 177 0
Golden Years Nursing Home Cambridge 88 0
Grace Villa Nursing Home Hamilton 184 0
Greenwood Court Stratford 45 <5
Hallowell House Picton 97 0
Hastings Manor Home for the Aged Belleville 253 <5
Heritage Green Nursing Home Stoney Creek 167 <5
Hillside Manor Stratford 90 0
Hogarth Riverview Manor Thunder Bay 543 0
Idlewyld Manor Hamilton 192 0
IOOF Seniors Home Barrie 182 0
Labdara Lithuanian Nursing Home Etobicoke 90 0
Lakeview Manor Beaverton 149 0
Lambton Meadowview Villa Petrolia 125 0
Lanark Heights Long Term Care Centre Kitchener 160 0
Leamington Mennonite Home Long Term Care Residence Leamington 84 0
Maple View Owen Sound 29 0
McCall Centre Long Term Care Interim Unit Etobicoke 21 0
Miramichi Lodge Pembroke 166 0
Moira Place Long-Term Care Home Tweed 128 0
Mount Hope Centre for Long Term Care London 394 0
North Park Nursing Home North York 75 0
Northridge Oakville 133 0
Northview Nursing Home Englehart 48 0
peopleCare Oakcrossing London London 160 0
Pinehaven Nursing Home Waterloo 84 0
Pioneer Manor Sudbury 433 0
Providence Manor Kingston 243 0
Regina Gardens Hamilton 128 0
Riverview Manor Nursing Home Peterborough 124 0
Rosebridge Manor Jasper 78 0
Royal Terrace Palmerston 67 0
Saint Luke's Place Cambridge 114 0
Shalom Manor Long Term Care Home Grimsby 144 0
Shepherd Lodge Toronto 252 0
Sherwood Court Long Term Care Centre Maple 96 0
Southlake Residential Care Village Newmarket 224 0
Spencer House Orillia 160 0
Sprucedale Care Centre Strathroy 96 0
St. Andrew's Terrace Long Term Care Community Cambridge 128 0
St. Gabriel's Villa of Sudbury Chelmsford 128 0
St. Joseph's Lifecare Centre Brantford 205 0
St. Joseph's Villa, Dundas Dundas 425 0
Stirling Heights Cambridge 110 0
Strathcona Long Term Care Mount Forest 87 0
Sumac Lodge Sarnia 100 0
Sunnycrest Nursing Home Whitby 136 0
Telfer Place Paris 45 0
Temiskaming Lodge Haileybury 83 0
The Henley House St. Catharines 160 0
The Village at St. Clair Windsor 256 0
The Village at University Gates Waterloo 192 0
The Village of Riverside Glen Guelph 192 0
The Village of Wentworth Heights Hamilton 120 0
The Wexford Scarborough 166 0
The Woodlands of Sunset Welland 121 0
Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans' Care Toronto 100 0
Twin Oaks of Maryhill Maryhill 31 0
Villa Marconi Ottawa 128 0
Wellington Terrace Long-Term Care Home Fergus 176 0
Wentworth Lodge Dundas 160 0
Wikwemikong Nursing Home Wikwemikong 59 0
Winbourne Park Ajax 110 0
Woodland Villa Long Sault 111 0
Woods Park Care Centre Barrie 123 0
Yee Hong Centre - Markham Markham 200 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough Finch Scarborough 250 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough McNicoll Scarborough 155 0

So, on the news you'll hear about facilities in outbreak and deaths due to covid there, when in reality there may be one confirmed case, and many very old people dying with no evidence that the deaths are due to covid.

I'm not saying people aren't dying. People die of the flu, a lot of them.

Its all semantics. Whether you choose to call it an outbreak, a banana or an albatross...a positive case or 10 or 30 positive cases are still cases. And deaths are happening regardless of what you prefer to call it. I'm not sure the point of your playing with the definition of an outbreak. I'm more concerned about cases and deaths instead of labels.

And yes I'm far less concerned about the outbreaks of 1 case...but the media is obviously reporting on the outbreaks of 30-50 residents...and yes that is a big deal.

And I'm guessing you don't know someone living in one of these facilities but if you did...1 case in the nursing home has potential to spread like wild-fire...and if you have someone you care about in that place...you are **** bricks at the thought of that 1 case becoming 5-10-15-30-etc. cases and potentially reaching your loved one.

People don't consider people outside of themselves...this is a perfect example.

There is far too little evidence that there will be a second wave, for which I am being told we might need to greatly restrict our freedoms and rights. Meanwhile the media is falsely representing what little facts there are, for what reason I can't say. They do not only talk about certain facilities. They flash on the screen the total number of Covid deaths at all of these facilities, and I've just shown you that the counts are likely to be vastly inaccurate.

Regardless, I have shown you very specific facts about mortality rates of confirmed cases at these nursing homes, many of which are in the throws of an outbreak. Why talk semantics rather than facts? Doesn't fit your narrative?

[BBallInSight]

Case count will stay steady or go up slightly.
No government is trying to get case count to zero.

What matters is hospitalizations and deaths. If there is no drastic spike, sure things will continue to open up.

Good information to have is median age of active case, and if that number is dropping from April, than its a good sign.

Ontario Covid hospitalization data can be found here:
https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/f4f86e54-872d-43f8-8a86-3892fd3cb5e6/resource/ed270bb8-340b-41f9-a7c6-e8ef587e6d11/download/covidtesting.csv

[Rapsalot]

@saltedmeat you calculated mortality vs positive test which is one way to look at stats. However, even in hoops people look at other numbers. PER or effectiveness of replacement player ect. I correctly calculated and said survival rate. Some people judge a player on All-Star games while others use All-NBA to take out the strength of one conference over the other.
So, please don’t tell someone that looks at the statistics not in your way is the wrong as it just make you look narrow minded and foolish. Have a great day.

[Kevin Willis]

This was discussed pages ago...why does this keep getting rehashed?

IF you test positve develop symptoms of covid and it causes you have shortness of breath/heart attack/stroke/pulmonary embolism/pneumonia (because covid has been known to cause ALL of the above) and die whereas you might not have had those and otherwise would have lived a few months longer...of course it's **** covid death.

The only one trying to misread the numbers is YOU. There is no documentation that indicates that covid deaths in long term care facilities weren't confirmed by test. Of all places...those would be easy to tell. That said....what do you think caused the mass deaths of thousands of nursing home residents within 2 months during a pandemic? You think it was coinicidence? Do you think it was the flu? You think that isn't suspicious for something? This amount of death in these facilities isn't just an every day occurence and it while there are flu outbreaks during flu season...IT DOESN'T RESULT IN THIS AMOUNT OF DEATH. And it isn't even just the residents that died...it's the staff: nursings, personal support workers, military personnel who are there helping...how the **** do you think 28 military personnel got covid (just reported in the last 2 days...my source is CP24) while working in nursing homes?

There are nursing homes in which 30-40 of 60 residents died...is that not considered an outbreak?

Tell me...which nursing homes have a single case and is misrepresented as an outbreak...otherwise stop spreading BS.

And....Sweden has 7000 more cases than Ontario does, despite Ontario as a province having almost 5 million more people than the population of Sweden. And as of right now...Ontario has 2157 deaths...Sweden has 3992 deaths...just about twice the number of deaths as Ontario. Tell me you wouldn't sacrifice 2000 more lives (one of those could be yours) just so that you can have a beer on a patio or pretend this doesn't exist. And yet...Sweden isn't doing better than any of their Scandinavian neighbours...Norway and Denmark all have lower numbers...so maybe telling us how great Sweden's doing isn't such a good idea.

You are SPECULATING that this thing has been around in December. You have no idea...and so I don't care about your speculation.

And our hospital system could have been as bad as NYC, Italy and Spain...but lockdown measures helped to prevent that. Do you want the hospital systems to be overwhelmed before you decide that this is real? Would that prove it to you? I'm happy we haven't filled our hospital up until now...but any degree of increased stupidity going forward can tip the balance. What makes you think that we can't end up like NYC, Italy and Spain?

Proof is out there in a world...this is not a good time to be a covid-denier. I suggest you head over to your nearest nursing home or long term care facility...ask a resident or nurse to cough on you. Maybe you'd rather visit one of the many covid testing centres and ask anyone in line to cough on you. If it's not as bad as you think it is...the numbers and facts are on your side...right? Are you brave enough to put your money where your mouth is (which is with distance of a sick person's cough)?

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/2019_long_term_care_guidance.pdf
- LTCHs must consider a single, laboratory confirmed case of COVID-19 in a resident or staff member as a confirmed COVID-19 outbreak in the LTCH.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-ontario-is-responding-covid-19
- The iPHIS data includes all outbreak-related cases and deaths reported in aggregate outbreak summary counts, regardless of whether the case was laboratory confirmed.

On the page, there's a long list of LTCH units in Outbreak that have fewer than 5 cases, and no deaths (they don't show the exact number if the number is less than 5, but I would assume many have 1).

Here's an interesting fact on that page:
Confirmed Cases for LTC Staff 1650
Total confirmed LTC staff deaths <5

That's 0.003, or .3% (at most, and 0.06% at minimum). So in the worst case scenario whereby one is in the thick of an outbreak, the death rate of healthy people is between .6 and 3 in a 1000. Again, worth imploding society for?

From that page, here's a list of facilities that were formerly said to be in Outbreak. The first number is the number of cases there (I imagine probable cases, which in LTCH means at least 1 Covid symptom), and the second is the number of deaths there. So not a single death in all of these "Outbreak" facilities.

Allendale Milton 200 0
Avalon Retirement Centre Orangeville 137 0
Bay Ridges Pickering 124 0
Belmont House Toronto 140 0
Belmont Long Term Care Facility Belleville 128 0
Bendale Acres Scarborough 302 0
Blue Water Rest Home Zurich 65 0
Bonnechere Manor Renfrew 180 0
Braemar Retirement Centre Wingham 69 0
Brucelea Haven Long Term Care Home - Corporation of the County of Bruce Walkerton 144 0
Caressant Care Courtland Courtland 55 0
Caressant Care Fergus Nursing Home Fergus 87 0
Caressant Care on Bonnie Place St Thomas 116 0
Case Manor Care Community Bobcaygeon 96 0
Cassellholme North Bay 240 0
Castleview Wychwood Towers Toronto 456 0
Cedarvale Terrace Toronto 218 0
Centre d'Accueil Champlain Vanier 160 0
Centre d'Accueil Roger Seguin Clarence Creek 113 0
Chartwell Elmira Long Term Care Residence Elmira 48 0
Chartwell Waterford Long Term Care Residence Oakville 168 0
Chelsey Park London 247 0
Clarion Nursing Home Stoney Creek 100 0
Copernicus Lodge Toronto 228 0
Country Terrace Komoka 120 0
Dom Lipa Etobicoke 66 0
Douglas H. Rapelje Lodge Welland 120 0
Earls Court Village London 128 0
Ehatare Nursing Home Scarborough 32 0
Elmwood Place London 90 0
Exeter Villa Exeter 47 0
Extendicare Lakefield Lakefield 100 0
Extendicare Rouge Valley Toronto 192 0
Extendicare Starwood Nepean 192 0
Extendicare West End Villa Ottawa 242 0
Extendicare York Sudbury 288 0
Fountain View Care Community East York 158 0
Franklin Gardens Long Term Care Home Leamington 120 0
Garden City Manor St. Catharines 200 0
Gardenview Long Term Care Home Townsend 64 0
Garry J. Armstrong Home Ottawa 180 0
Golden Dawn Nursing Home Lion's Head 45 0
Golden Manor Timmins 177 0
Golden Years Nursing Home Cambridge 88 0
Grace Villa Nursing Home Hamilton 184 0
Greenwood Court Stratford 45 <5
Hallowell House Picton 97 0
Hastings Manor Home for the Aged Belleville 253 <5
Heritage Green Nursing Home Stoney Creek 167 <5
Hillside Manor Stratford 90 0
Hogarth Riverview Manor Thunder Bay 543 0
Idlewyld Manor Hamilton 192 0
IOOF Seniors Home Barrie 182 0
Labdara Lithuanian Nursing Home Etobicoke 90 0
Lakeview Manor Beaverton 149 0
Lambton Meadowview Villa Petrolia 125 0
Lanark Heights Long Term Care Centre Kitchener 160 0
Leamington Mennonite Home Long Term Care Residence Leamington 84 0
Maple View Owen Sound 29 0
McCall Centre Long Term Care Interim Unit Etobicoke 21 0
Miramichi Lodge Pembroke 166 0
Moira Place Long-Term Care Home Tweed 128 0
Mount Hope Centre for Long Term Care London 394 0
North Park Nursing Home North York 75 0
Northridge Oakville 133 0
Northview Nursing Home Englehart 48 0
peopleCare Oakcrossing London London 160 0
Pinehaven Nursing Home Waterloo 84 0
Pioneer Manor Sudbury 433 0
Providence Manor Kingston 243 0
Regina Gardens Hamilton 128 0
Riverview Manor Nursing Home Peterborough 124 0
Rosebridge Manor Jasper 78 0
Royal Terrace Palmerston 67 0
Saint Luke's Place Cambridge 114 0
Shalom Manor Long Term Care Home Grimsby 144 0
Shepherd Lodge Toronto 252 0
Sherwood Court Long Term Care Centre Maple 96 0
Southlake Residential Care Village Newmarket 224 0
Spencer House Orillia 160 0
Sprucedale Care Centre Strathroy 96 0
St. Andrew's Terrace Long Term Care Community Cambridge 128 0
St. Gabriel's Villa of Sudbury Chelmsford 128 0
St. Joseph's Lifecare Centre Brantford 205 0
St. Joseph's Villa, Dundas Dundas 425 0
Stirling Heights Cambridge 110 0
Strathcona Long Term Care Mount Forest 87 0
Sumac Lodge Sarnia 100 0
Sunnycrest Nursing Home Whitby 136 0
Telfer Place Paris 45 0
Temiskaming Lodge Haileybury 83 0
The Henley House St. Catharines 160 0
The Village at St. Clair Windsor 256 0
The Village at University Gates Waterloo 192 0
The Village of Riverside Glen Guelph 192 0
The Village of Wentworth Heights Hamilton 120 0
The Wexford Scarborough 166 0
The Woodlands of Sunset Welland 121 0
Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans' Care Toronto 100 0
Twin Oaks of Maryhill Maryhill 31 0
Villa Marconi Ottawa 128 0
Wellington Terrace Long-Term Care Home Fergus 176 0
Wentworth Lodge Dundas 160 0
Wikwemikong Nursing Home Wikwemikong 59 0
Winbourne Park Ajax 110 0
Woodland Villa Long Sault 111 0
Woods Park Care Centre Barrie 123 0
Yee Hong Centre - Markham Markham 200 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough Finch Scarborough 250 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough McNicoll Scarborough 155 0

So, on the news you'll hear about facilities in outbreak and deaths due to covid there, when in reality there may be one confirmed case, and many very old people dying with no evidence that the deaths are due to covid.

I'm not saying people aren't dying. People die of the flu, a lot of them.

Its all semantics. Whether you choose to call it an outbreak, a banana or an albatross...a positive case or 10 or 30 positive cases are still cases. And deaths are happening regardless of what you prefer to call it. I'm not sure the point of your playing with the definition of an outbreak. I'm more concerned about cases and deaths instead of labels.

And yes I'm far less concerned about the outbreaks of 1 case...but the media is obviously reporting on the outbreaks of 30-50 residents...and yes that is a big deal.

And I'm guessing you don't know someone living in one of these facilities but if you did...1 case in the nursing home has potential to spread like wild-fire...and if you have someone you care about in that place...you are **** bricks at the thought of that 1 case becoming 5-10-15-30-etc. cases and potentially reaching your loved one.

People don't consider people outside of themselves...this is a perfect example.

Don't address this guy, it's a waste of time. There was a pastor in the southern U.S. who made claims similar to him. Oh it's just a flu, government is sensationalizing, here are the facts... Unfortunately for his family and congregation he died from the virus but before he did he put others at risk. Oh yeah and Brazilian president Bolsonaro who called it a 'little flu'.

Read on Twitter

You cannot change this poster's mind. If you have to play with data then the data is not good and he does a lot of it. The only thing we can hope for is his decisions do not have a negative impact on others. We know he's wrong, let's leave it alone...

[garbagnani]

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/2019_long_term_care_guidance.pdf
- LTCHs must consider a single, laboratory confirmed case of COVID-19 in a resident or staff member as a confirmed COVID-19 outbreak in the LTCH.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-ontario-is-responding-covid-19
- The iPHIS data includes all outbreak-related cases and deaths reported in aggregate outbreak summary counts, regardless of whether the case was laboratory confirmed.

On the page, there's a long list of LTCH units in Outbreak that have fewer than 5 cases, and no deaths (they don't show the exact number if the number is less than 5, but I would assume many have 1).

Here's an interesting fact on that page:
Confirmed Cases for LTC Staff 1650
Total confirmed LTC staff deaths <5

That's 0.003, or .3% (at most, and 0.06% at minimum). So in the worst case scenario whereby one is in the thick of an outbreak, the death rate of healthy people is between .6 and 3 in a 1000. Again, worth imploding society for?

From that page, here's a list of facilities that were formerly said to be in Outbreak. The first number is the number of cases there (I imagine probable cases, which in LTCH means at least 1 Covid symptom), and the second is the number of deaths there. So not a single death in all of these "Outbreak" facilities.

Allendale Milton 200 0
Avalon Retirement Centre Orangeville 137 0
Bay Ridges Pickering 124 0
Belmont House Toronto 140 0
Belmont Long Term Care Facility Belleville 128 0
Bendale Acres Scarborough 302 0
Blue Water Rest Home Zurich 65 0
Bonnechere Manor Renfrew 180 0
Braemar Retirement Centre Wingham 69 0
Brucelea Haven Long Term Care Home - Corporation of the County of Bruce Walkerton 144 0
Caressant Care Courtland Courtland 55 0
Caressant Care Fergus Nursing Home Fergus 87 0
Caressant Care on Bonnie Place St Thomas 116 0
Case Manor Care Community Bobcaygeon 96 0
Cassellholme North Bay 240 0
Castleview Wychwood Towers Toronto 456 0
Cedarvale Terrace Toronto 218 0
Centre d'Accueil Champlain Vanier 160 0
Centre d'Accueil Roger Seguin Clarence Creek 113 0
Chartwell Elmira Long Term Care Residence Elmira 48 0
Chartwell Waterford Long Term Care Residence Oakville 168 0
Chelsey Park London 247 0
Clarion Nursing Home Stoney Creek 100 0
Copernicus Lodge Toronto 228 0
Country Terrace Komoka 120 0
Dom Lipa Etobicoke 66 0
Douglas H. Rapelje Lodge Welland 120 0
Earls Court Village London 128 0
Ehatare Nursing Home Scarborough 32 0
Elmwood Place London 90 0
Exeter Villa Exeter 47 0
Extendicare Lakefield Lakefield 100 0
Extendicare Rouge Valley Toronto 192 0
Extendicare Starwood Nepean 192 0
Extendicare West End Villa Ottawa 242 0
Extendicare York Sudbury 288 0
Fountain View Care Community East York 158 0
Franklin Gardens Long Term Care Home Leamington 120 0
Garden City Manor St. Catharines 200 0
Gardenview Long Term Care Home Townsend 64 0
Garry J. Armstrong Home Ottawa 180 0
Golden Dawn Nursing Home Lion's Head 45 0
Golden Manor Timmins 177 0
Golden Years Nursing Home Cambridge 88 0
Grace Villa Nursing Home Hamilton 184 0
Greenwood Court Stratford 45 <5
Hallowell House Picton 97 0
Hastings Manor Home for the Aged Belleville 253 <5
Heritage Green Nursing Home Stoney Creek 167 <5
Hillside Manor Stratford 90 0
Hogarth Riverview Manor Thunder Bay 543 0
Idlewyld Manor Hamilton 192 0
IOOF Seniors Home Barrie 182 0
Labdara Lithuanian Nursing Home Etobicoke 90 0
Lakeview Manor Beaverton 149 0
Lambton Meadowview Villa Petrolia 125 0
Lanark Heights Long Term Care Centre Kitchener 160 0
Leamington Mennonite Home Long Term Care Residence Leamington 84 0
Maple View Owen Sound 29 0
McCall Centre Long Term Care Interim Unit Etobicoke 21 0
Miramichi Lodge Pembroke 166 0
Moira Place Long-Term Care Home Tweed 128 0
Mount Hope Centre for Long Term Care London 394 0
North Park Nursing Home North York 75 0
Northridge Oakville 133 0
Northview Nursing Home Englehart 48 0
peopleCare Oakcrossing London London 160 0
Pinehaven Nursing Home Waterloo 84 0
Pioneer Manor Sudbury 433 0
Providence Manor Kingston 243 0
Regina Gardens Hamilton 128 0
Riverview Manor Nursing Home Peterborough 124 0
Rosebridge Manor Jasper 78 0
Royal Terrace Palmerston 67 0
Saint Luke's Place Cambridge 114 0
Shalom Manor Long Term Care Home Grimsby 144 0
Shepherd Lodge Toronto 252 0
Sherwood Court Long Term Care Centre Maple 96 0
Southlake Residential Care Village Newmarket 224 0
Spencer House Orillia 160 0
Sprucedale Care Centre Strathroy 96 0
St. Andrew's Terrace Long Term Care Community Cambridge 128 0
St. Gabriel's Villa of Sudbury Chelmsford 128 0
St. Joseph's Lifecare Centre Brantford 205 0
St. Joseph's Villa, Dundas Dundas 425 0
Stirling Heights Cambridge 110 0
Strathcona Long Term Care Mount Forest 87 0
Sumac Lodge Sarnia 100 0
Sunnycrest Nursing Home Whitby 136 0
Telfer Place Paris 45 0
Temiskaming Lodge Haileybury 83 0
The Henley House St. Catharines 160 0
The Village at St. Clair Windsor 256 0
The Village at University Gates Waterloo 192 0
The Village of Riverside Glen Guelph 192 0
The Village of Wentworth Heights Hamilton 120 0
The Wexford Scarborough 166 0
The Woodlands of Sunset Welland 121 0
Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans' Care Toronto 100 0
Twin Oaks of Maryhill Maryhill 31 0
Villa Marconi Ottawa 128 0
Wellington Terrace Long-Term Care Home Fergus 176 0
Wentworth Lodge Dundas 160 0
Wikwemikong Nursing Home Wikwemikong 59 0
Winbourne Park Ajax 110 0
Woodland Villa Long Sault 111 0
Woods Park Care Centre Barrie 123 0
Yee Hong Centre - Markham Markham 200 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough Finch Scarborough 250 0
Yee Hong Centre - Scarborough McNicoll Scarborough 155 0

So, on the news you'll hear about facilities in outbreak and deaths due to covid there, when in reality there may be one confirmed case, and many very old people dying with no evidence that the deaths are due to covid.

I'm not saying people aren't dying. People die of the flu, a lot of them.

Its all semantics. Whether you choose to call it an outbreak, a banana or an albatross...a positive case or 10 or 30 positive cases are still cases. And deaths are happening regardless of what you prefer to call it. I'm not sure the point of your playing with the definition of an outbreak. I'm more concerned about cases and deaths instead of labels.

And yes I'm far less concerned about the outbreaks of 1 case...but the media is obviously reporting on the outbreaks of 30-50 residents...and yes that is a big deal.

And I'm guessing you don't know someone living in one of these facilities but if you did...1 case in the nursing home has potential to spread like wild-fire...and if you have someone you care about in that place...you are **** bricks at the thought of that 1 case becoming 5-10-15-30-etc. cases and potentially reaching your loved one.

People don't consider people outside of themselves...this is a perfect example.

Don't address this guy, it's a waste of time. There was a pastor in the southern U.S. who made claims similar to him. Oh it's just a flu, government is sensationalizing, here are the facts... Unfortunately for his family and congregation he died from the virus but before he did he put others at risk. Oh yeah and Brazilian president Bolsonaro who called it a 'little flu'.

Read on Twitter

You cannot change this poster's mind. If you have to play with data then the data is not good and he does a lot of it. The only thing we can hope for is his decisions do not have a negative impact on others. We know he's wrong, let's leave it alone...

Actually the data certainly leaves Room to debate the response. The experts themselves admit they are making best decisions they can with incomplete data.

You may think you are correct, as does the poster that disagrees with you. Dismissing him as wrong is out of line. Your don’t know ****, neither does he. You both have opinions.

for the record, the flu is famous for ripping through ltc homes. Huge annual body count. Fact.

The data is incomplete. Govs are being cautious in the sake of public safety. They are under intense pressure. Don’t want a catastrophe blamed on them. Only time will tell if the response is Overblown, appropriate or insufficient.

Personally, I’m glad they have been cautious.

[EH15]

The flatten the curve verbiage ended up as such a bad misnomer. That was a huge failure by the experts. It was a phrase fine at the time. But think of how little we actually knew of the virus back in early March. We didn't know the disease and deaths would not be a symmetrical bell curve, but a long tail. We didn't know of the various successes like South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, HK, Japan, Greece, and yes, even China. That South Korea bar flare up? Controlled. It's a great reminder that if you stamp it out the first time, it's conceivable you never have this again. I'm going glass half full. I could see every single one of those countries (maybe not Greece) avoid 2nd, 3rd waves. If they stay vigilant, this might've been it for them. At no time in history have we been more equipped to avoid a 2nd wave. If our government simply distanced themselves from 'flatten the curve' in April I think we'd be in a different place. Too many people live by that. "See! we flattened the curve! Time to get back to work." Trying to maintain steady hospitalizations and ICU is like gameplanning with boxscores from last season. It's already too late. Those indicators are lagging. Anywhere from 10-20 days. They are not current snapshots, rather they answer the question of 'how we did'. We're doing okay in terms of global standards, but damn it annoys me to see BC levels of transmission within our grasps and we just took our ball and went home. ON and QC will look dumb as hell if BC has no flareups for the next 6 months.

[Kevin Willis]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

Its all semantics. Whether you choose to call it an outbreak, a banana or an albatross...a positive case or 10 or 30 positive cases are still cases. And deaths are happening regardless of what you prefer to call it. I'm not sure the point of your playing with the definition of an outbreak. I'm more concerned about cases and deaths instead of labels.

And yes I'm far less concerned about the outbreaks of 1 case...but the media is obviously reporting on the outbreaks of 30-50 residents...and yes that is a big deal.

And I'm guessing you don't know someone living in one of these facilities but if you did...1 case in the nursing home has potential to spread like wild-fire...and if you have someone you care about in that place...you are **** bricks at the thought of that 1 case becoming 5-10-15-30-etc. cases and potentially reaching your loved one.

People don't consider people outside of themselves...this is a perfect example.

Don't address this guy, it's a waste of time. There was a pastor in the southern U.S. who made claims similar to him. Oh it's just a flu, government is sensationalizing, here are the facts... Unfortunately for his family and congregation he died from the virus but before he did he put others at risk. Oh yeah and Brazilian president Bolsonaro who called it a 'little flu'.

Read on Twitter

You cannot change this poster's mind. If you have to play with data then the data is not good and he does a lot of it. The only thing we can hope for is his decisions do not have a negative impact on others. We know he's wrong, let's leave it alone...

Actually the data certainly leaves Room to debate the response. The experts themselves admit they are making best decisions they can with incomplete data.

You may think you are correct, as does the poster that disagrees with you. Dismissing him as wrong is out of line. Your don’t know ****, neither does he. You both have opinions.

for the record, the flu is famous for ripping through ltc homes. Huge annual body count. Fact.

The data is incomplete. Govs are being cautious in the sake of public safety. They are under intense pressure. Don’t want a catastrophe blamed on them. Only time will tell if the response is Overblown, appropriate or insufficient.

Personally, I’m glad they have been cautious.

1. You also know ****. Why should I listen to you, because you have a wrong opinion?
2. I guess you don't know but I did a lot of research and listened to a lot of experts. I understand his points clearly. However the leaders who took his 'stand' caused a lot of unnecessary deaths. THAT IS A FACT. NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
3. This is not the same as the standard flu. THAT IS A FACT. NOT UP FOR DEBATE. But don't take my word for it since I know ****.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-coronavirus-different-than-influenza-can-be-contained/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/01/health/flu-vs-coronavirus-deaths/index.html

Pick a link, any link and dispute the sources. Comparing it with the flu is wrong, it's more than that. At this point there is enough data to make certain conclusions. We're not devoid of information. Don't be a Bolonaro who was a freakin' idiot - at least you admit cautious is good. Congrats to suckering me into responding and doing the exact thing I didn't want to do.

BTW - my mother gets the flu once a year. I would never want her to get the coronavirus. There is a difference.

[ItsDanger]

That post with LTC homes lists # residents & deaths. What it shows on the link is that once more 5 residents got infected, it spread a lot more. This really shows that more precautions should have been taken in these facilities. I suspect a lot of places just didn't have the right protocols in place. Not even sure they can quarantine patients effectively either. But the extreme difference between LTC is startling but not surprising in hindsight. Even laymen knew that should have been top priority months ago.

[Courtside]

Yesterday in downtown Toronto...

[garbagnani]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

Don't address this guy, it's a waste of time. There was a pastor in the southern U.S. who made claims similar to him. Oh it's just a flu, government is sensationalizing, here are the facts... Unfortunately for his family and congregation he died from the virus but before he did he put others at risk. Oh yeah and Brazilian president Bolsonaro who called it a 'little flu'.

Read on Twitter

You cannot change this poster's mind. If you have to play with data then the data is not good and he does a lot of it. The only thing we can hope for is his decisions do not have a negative impact on others. We know he's wrong, let's leave it alone...

Actually the data certainly leaves Room to debate the response. The experts themselves admit they are making best decisions they can with incomplete data.

You may think you are correct, as does the poster that disagrees with you. Dismissing him as wrong is out of line. Your don’t know ****, neither does he. You both have opinions.

for the record, the flu is famous for ripping through ltc homes. Huge annual body count. Fact.

The data is incomplete. Govs are being cautious in the sake of public safety. They are under intense pressure. Don’t want a catastrophe blamed on them. Only time will tell if the response is Overblown, appropriate or insufficient.

Personally, I’m glad they have been cautious.

1. You also know ****. Why should I listen to you, because you have a wrong opinion?
2. I guess you don't know but I did a lot of research and listened to a lot of experts. I understand his points clearly. However the leaders who took his 'stand' caused a lot of unnecessary deaths. THAT IS A FACT. NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
3. This is not the same as the standard flu. THAT IS A FACT. NOT UP FOR DEBATE. But don't take my word for it since I know ****.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu
https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/03/who-coronavirus-different-than-influenza-can-be-contained/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/01/health/flu-vs-coronavirus-deaths/index.html

Pick a link, any link and dispute the sources. Comparing it with the flu is wrong, it's more than that. At this point there is enough data to make certain conclusions. We're not devoid of information. Don't be a Bolonaro who was a freakin' idiot - at least you admit cautious is good. Congrats to suckering me into responding and doing the exact thing I didn't want to do.

BTW - my mother gets the flu once a year. I would never want her to get the coronavirus. There is a difference.

From cdc: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm

Check table 1. 51,000 deaths in the age 65+ bracket in 2017-18 flu season alone.

Maybe your mom should be a little more cautious and try not to get the flu every year....Lol

[StringerBell]

Yesterday in downtown Toronto...

And few masks to be seen. Unbelievable

[whitehops]

Yesterday in downtown Toronto...

i walked by there and it was crazy. earlier on by the (shadier) queen street side there wasn't a ton of people set up but that area in the picture was PACKED. eventually as the afternoon went on the entire park filled up but it was shocking. from queen street it looked like there was a festival or something.

the sidewalks were no different though. for stretches there were people lined up on both sides of the sidewalk and then people trying to pass in between them, leaving next to no clearance. it was like trying to fit four cars into a three-lane road.

[garbagnani]

Kevin Willis,

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/lockdown-saved-no-lives-may-150639428.html

Is this guy credible?

[mtcan]

Yesterday in downtown Toronto...

i walked by there and it was crazy. earlier on by the (shadier) queen street side there wasn't a ton of people set up but that area in the picture was PACKED. eventually as the afternoon went on the entire park filled up but it was shocking. from queen street it looked like there was a festival or something.

the sidewalks were no different though. for stretches there were people lined up on both sides of the sidewalk and then people trying to pass in between them, leaving next to no clearance. it was like trying to fit four cars into a three-lane road.

...and how many of those groupings are of people living in the same house/condo/apartment? I'm going to guess...some...but not most. And among all of those groupings...there may well be a few asymptomatic positives...and there will no doubt be some spread from that little get together. It takes one asymptomatic positive to spread it to 3 or 4 other buddies and that is how community spread happens.

[Vaclac]

For those who think economic consequences of lockdowns don't translate into real health problems and that we should just lockdown harshly until a vaccine, consider this story: doctors at a bay area hospital have seen more suicide deaths than coronavirus deaths and that they've seen a years worth of suicides in a month. I'm no covid denier, I just wish more of the discussion would acknowledge that there is a real tradeoff because the lockdown has very real negative consequences and so is not sustainable. Criticizing the lockdown does not require one to value money over lives, as so many slanderously put it, including earlier in this thread.

https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/