2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 5) -LOTTO 8/25 DRAFT 10/15!

[HarthorneWingo]

Yeah I’m a big fan of Pritchard. Would love to get him if we can’t get Karim Mane, or perhaps get both.

Melo, I see why you like Main, the college player, but where would you play him? SG? He's too slow to guard that position. He looks like a tweener to me. I don't think he can guard the 2 spot but maybe as a 3.

Not sure who you’re talking about

Never mind. I completely fcked that up. I was mistakenly thinking Bane.

[WargamesX]

Here is my thing with LaMelo...... it’s Zion all over again.

We all know he is really talented and likely the #1 pick. , but why discuss him endlessly when we don’t even know where we will pick in the draft? Knicks have him as the best PG in the draft..... ok they should because it’s clear to everyone he is the best PG in the draft.

We were all Gaga over Zion, he went #1. Even with the worst record we got pick #3 and drafted RJ, end of story. We’re #6 now so we have even less chance to get LaMelo than we had to get Zion.

Let’s focus on who the hell the Knicks need to get at #6 to make sure we don’t pull another Jordan Hill.

There's a few differences here tho.

1- It's weird draft in the sense that some teams would rather not have LaMelo with the "baggage" and the distraction. Also some of the teams potentially ahead of us arent looking at pg's (Hawks, Wolves, Warriors etc)

2- We have the assets necessary to move up a few slots. 7 1st over the next 4 years, frank, knox, mitch, RJ (Included the last two but they off limits for me lol)

3- Melo/Lavar gonna try and force his way to NY, wont work out for other teams, like Zion did.

You're still right and we should be doing our best to scout all the talent in the top 10. But I do feel like Melo's coming one way or another

I hear you, but even if we stay at 6 most of these would be moot. It’s not even a strong draft where we can pretend he isn’t top 3 talent, probably top 2. Also until Ian’s report everyone was saying Cole was the pick. This is the same media manipulation the fans always fall for that leads us to being disappointed.

[robillionaire]

Here is my thing with LaMelo...... it’s Zion all over again.

We all know he is really talented and likely the #1 pick. , but why discuss him endlessly when we don’t even know where we will pick in the draft? Knicks have him as the best PG in the draft..... ok they should because it’s clear to everyone he is the best PG in the draft.

We were all Gaga over Zion, he went #1. Even with the worst record we got pick #3 and drafted RJ, end of story. We’re #6 now so we have even less chance to get LaMelo than we had to get Zion.

Let’s focus on who the hell the Knicks need to get at #6 to make sure we don’t pull another Jordan Hill.

We have a better chance to get LaMelo than Zion. We had exactly a 14% chance to get Zion. The difference is we knew zion was going #1 and we knew whoever got #1 would never trade it. Now we only have a 9% chance of picking 1st. But not everyone has lamelo at #1 especially teams already set at PG. not even the mock drafts have a consensus. he could go 1st or even fall to 4th. And there's a realistic chance a team could be willing to trade that pick. Then you have the LaVar factor, who may "steer" him our way somehow, because we know he wants New York. So when you factor all those outside possibilities in, I say it's greater than 14%

But you're probably right, as we are knicks fans and the first rule is that nothing good will ever happen. My first preference is to win the lottery. my 2nd preference is to trade up. after all that fails am I going to decide on someone 6-10

It's hard to settle on someone there because there's still a wide range of who could be available 6-10. There isn't a set top 4-5 guys, someone could fall unexpectedly. Some I like who might be there Hayes, Okoro, Hampton, Avdija, Maxey. Not quite as high on Haliburton, Cole, Toppin, Okongwu but I will support whoever the knicks take and hope it works out.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Here is my thing with LaMelo...... it’s Zion all over again.

We all know he is really talented and likely the #1 pick. , but why discuss him endlessly when we don’t even know where we will pick in the draft? Knicks have him as the best PG in the draft..... ok they should because it’s clear to everyone he is the best PG in the draft.

We were all Gaga over Zion, he went #1. Even with the worst record we got pick #3 and drafted RJ, end of story. We’re #6 now so we have even less chance to get LaMelo than we had to get Zion.

Let’s focus on who the hell the Knicks need to get at #6 to make sure we don’t pull another Jordan Hill.

There's a few differences here tho.

1- It's weird draft in the sense that some teams would rather not have LaMelo with the "baggage" and the distraction. Also some of the teams potentially ahead of us arent looking at pg's (Hawks, Wolves, Warriors etc)

2- We have the assets necessary to move up a few slots. 7 1st over the next 4 years, frank, knox, mitch, RJ (Included the last two but they off limits for me lol)

3- Melo/Lavar gonna try and force his way to NY, wont work out for other teams, like Zion did.

You're still right and we should be doing our best to scout all the talent in the top 10. But I do feel like Melo's coming one way or another

signature- good points. thanks!

wargames- i'm not setting myself up for lamelo disappointment. i just thought it was interesting to see about a player who gets discussed a lot in a draft thread. obviously if we end up with a high enough pick to take him, it's something to consider in case other players were in consideration.

i don't think this is like zion at all. there was no doubt zion was going #1 overall to any team. i think there are a few players in this draft who absolutely could go ahead of him.

[Jeff Van Gully]

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nbl-analyst-talks-knicks-draft-target-lamelo-ball-hes-famous-like-a-kardashian-but-he-actually-has-talent/313478572

not sure if y'all saw homicide's take on lamelo. very interesting to get that nod.

he mentioned some stuff about lamelo's approach to the game that i hadn't heard about before.

Great insight. We really need to find a way to get him, within reason.

i like him a lot, but i am wary of his flaws. this def is selling me on him as someone you might need to take that swing at.

i like haliburton and killian. would be happy getting either of them. but now i'm like... feeling a way about lamelo.

[DaGawd]

I'm just wondering when the lottery gonna be at this point... **** is wack

[sol537]

I could see Lavar steering Lamelo to NY. If we pick 6th or 7th, we may have to trade up with a future pick to get him, but I definitely see them muddying the waters to get him to fall. I'll say 50-50 we get Lamelo...

[moocow007]

About melo,

Considering how lonzo fixed his form dont you guys think he will talk to/work with melo on changing his form?

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk

Yes absolutely. Actually it appears that Melo is already fixing his shot. There's been clips that show that his shooting form recently has noticeably improved from where it was when he was with the Aussie team.

Like I've said. The Balls may be arrogant and rub a lot of people the wrong way but they are not stupid nor are they lazy. They know what they need to do. You cannot get to where they are at with just sitting back, relaxing and running their mouths. They know that you have to walk the walk if you want to talk the talk. That's why it's a safer bet for me to bank on him being a Ball meaning he'll do what it takes than any random joe schmo.

Is it a guarantee? No. Does it mean they'll be great? No. But nothing is and I'd rather bet that a Ball has the tools and the mentality to do what it takes to be at least productive in the NBA than most other guys. The fact that this particular Ball appears to also be the most talented one just makes the potential upside even better. High floor, high ceiling. That's what you want in a prospect.

[dakomish23]

So, anybody like the Israeli guy?

Watch on YouTube

[Deeeez Knicks]

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/nbl-analyst-talks-knicks-draft-target-lamelo-ball-hes-famous-like-a-kardashian-but-he-actually-has-talent/313478572

not sure if y'all saw homicide's take on lamelo. very interesting to get that nod.

he mentioned some stuff about lamelo's approach to the game that i hadn't heard about before.

Great insight. We really need to find a way to get him, within reason.

i like him a lot, but i am wary of his flaws. this def is selling me on him as someone you might need to take that swing at.

i like haliburton and killian. would be happy getting either of them. but now i'm like... feeling a way about lamelo.

Yea, I like Hayes and Killian too so wouldn't be upset at them at all. LaMelo just looks like he's on another level to me...def some risk and question marks though. I am a believer in the upside though

[Jeff Van Gully]

So, anybody like the Israeli guy?

Watch on YouTube

i think he is gonna fall too far and someone's gonna luck into him. kid looks good.

[Deeeez Knicks]

So, anybody like the Israeli guy?

Watch on YouTube

I don't like him as a lottery pick or for the Knicks, but he may end up being decent after a few years. I dont really see the top 5/lottery pick hype though.

[moocow007]

So, anybody like the Israeli guy?

Watch on YouTube

From a pure skills standpoint, absolutely. And he does seem like he plays with a bit of an edge which for me is key as the NBA game really forces you to really be strong mentally and not just physically. I'm not worried about whether he's athletic enough or strong enough or what position he might play (you'll get stronger and in today's positionless basketball you can find a spot for him), my biggest concern is mentality.

The biggest concern for me for any foreign player is whether they have the ability to adjust and thrive playing in the NBA. When you look at the Euro players that have succeeded they've had one thing in common, the ability to not wilt and to play your game when you go up against guys that are bigger and faster than you. Mario Hezonja is a good example of a guy that had a load of talent and that, from a skill standpoint, could dominate. But he just simply could not handle the mental aspects of how to adjust and thrive when things aren't as easy as you'd like it to be. The flip side would be someone like Manu Ginobili. The same type of size, the same type of skill, but with the mental toughness to adjust and thriving in tough playing situations. Another comparison would be looking at a Frederick Weis and a Jusuf Nurkic. Same size and the same type of upside. One guy couldn't get pass being dunked on and the pressures of playing against 'men'. The other guy, got well pass the fact that he was playing a much harder game against much better talent and is right now one of the better centers in the NBA.

Hard to be sure, but it does seem like Avdija is moreof of the later type of player than the former.

Avdija currently is 6th on my list of BPA. Top 5 in no real order are: Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Hayes and Okongwu. The top 5 are the guys that I think that has the ability to become all-stars in the NBA. Avdija to me is on the bubble. If he has a Manu type mentality then yes I can see him becoming a star cause he's got a lot of talent that I think will translate from a current day NBA perspective.

[WargamesX]

Here is my thing with LaMelo...... it’s Zion all over again.

We all know he is really talented and likely the #1 pick. , but why discuss him endlessly when we don’t even know where we will pick in the draft? Knicks have him as the best PG in the draft..... ok they should because it’s clear to everyone he is the best PG in the draft.

We were all Gaga over Zion, he went #1. Even with the worst record we got pick #3 and drafted RJ, end of story. We’re #6 now so we have even less chance to get LaMelo than we had to get Zion.

Let’s focus on who the hell the Knicks need to get at #6 to make sure we don’t pull another Jordan Hill.

There's a few differences here tho.

1- It's weird draft in the sense that some teams would rather not have LaMelo with the "baggage" and the distraction. Also some of the teams potentially ahead of us arent looking at pg's (Hawks, Wolves, Warriors etc)

2- We have the assets necessary to move up a few slots. 7 1st over the next 4 years, frank, knox, mitch, RJ (Included the last two but they off limits for me lol)

3- Melo/Lavar gonna try and force his way to NY, wont work out for other teams, like Zion did.

You're still right and we should be doing our best to scout all the talent in the top 10. But I do feel like Melo's coming one way or another

I hear you, but even if we stay at 6 most of these would be moot. It’s not even a strong draft where we can pretend he isn’t top 3 talent, probably top 2. Also until Ian’s report everyone was saying Cole was the pick. This is the same media manipulation the fans always fall for that leads us to being disappointed.

[robillionaire]

So, anybody like the Israeli guy?

Watch on YouTube

I don't like him as a lottery pick or for the Knicks, but he may end up being decent after a few years. I dont really see the top 5/lottery pick hype though.

Maybe not top 5 but I’d probably consider it at 6-10. No hype but it’s just not a really strong draft so I think you can justify it

[thebuzzardman]

Let's assume the Knicks are picking....6th. No luck and no bad luck.

And...LaMelo goes...#3. Assumptions being that whoever got #1 and #2 didn't need a PG, wanted Edwards and Wiseman. Or Obi. Whatever.
Well, for arguments sake, assume Wiseman goes off the board before #6.

I'm not even speculating on teams, just the first 5 are:

Edwards
Wiseman
LaMelo
Obi
Haliburton (to take another desired PG off the board)
Knicks

What's the cost to get LaMelo.
Obviously it starts the #6 pick, and taking the player team #3 wants with that pick.

What's the additional cost? Realistically? I have no idea, other than to compare to the Trae Young/Luka trade, but in that instance, it was much more closely regarded players

The 2018 NBA Draft-day transaction that sent the Atlanta Hawks‘ first-round pick, Luka Doncic, to the Dallas Mavericks in exchange for their first-round pick, Trae Young, and an additional first-round selection the following year will always be a hot topic for debate.

So, the starting discussion seems to be mid to low lottery pick or equivalent AND something more, since there's a perceived talent gap between LaMelo and the rest of the draft, or the usual gap between top 3 and 4-8, generally

Knicks #6, and "______" and "_______"
A dallas pick (not the HS all in year) and a player?

[newyorker4ever]

can you name one championship team that had 2 atrocious defenders at the point of attack?

teams would just isolate those two in the 1-4 P&R and what would team defense do there?

The Knicks are as far away from even thinking championship as any team in the NBA is right now. Championship teams have been made up of team putting together super star rosters of 2 and even 3 of the top stars in the NBA and then you get the veterans to come and make a championship run with those stars on cheap underpaid deals, for the Knicks to get anywhere close to that then every young player we have now including whoever we draft in this draft will get traded for that 1st and 2nd star. We should be thinking about just getting better and hopefully making a run for the playoffs in the weak east before we think championship.

The teams that do come to mind would be the Mavericks when they won their championship and Cleveland as teams that didn't have that many good defenders on their championship teams.

The mavs had Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, and Shawn Marion all playing prominent roles. And While Dirk was a bad defender he was also a historically all time great offensive player.

And the other scenario is the cavs and they had the best player from this decade/era.

The point being unless some of these guys are legendary offensive players (which they wont be). It is so hard to build a winner with your best players be atrocious defenders.

Just look at this year. KAT had one of the most dynamic offensive seasons ever for a big man and they couldn't win anything in Minny. Also in ATL Trae Young and John Collins both put up huge numbers and both teams had worse records than the Knicks.

You don't have to sell me on how big a difference having players that play defense can be which is why i've said multiple times on here that i wish we'd build this team like the Miami Heat has built their teams since The Rat moved up to his front office job with them. I've also said that i hope W.Perrin has a big voice in who we draft and sign or trade for cause i like how the Jazz have built their teams for the last 20 years or so. It's also a big reason why i hope we keep Frank and Dotson.

[newyorker4ever]

1-Ball
2-Edwards
3-Hayes
4-Haliburton

For us.

I think this is probably how I would put it.

Nobody likes I.Okoro? I think this kid will be legit in the NBA.

[Zenzibar]

So, anybody like the Israeli guy?

Watch on YouTube

From a pure skills standpoint, absolutely. And he does seem like he plays with a bit of an edge which for me is key as the NBA game really forces you to really be strong mentally and not just physically. I'm not worried about whether he's athletic enough or strong enough or what position he might play (you'll get stronger and in today's positionless basketball you can find a spot for him), my biggest concern is mentality.

The biggest concern for me for any foreign player is whether they have the ability to adjust and thrive playing in the NBA. When you look at the Euro players that have succeeded they've had one thing in common, the ability to not wilt and to play your game when you go up against guys that are bigger and faster than you. Mario Hezonja is a good example of a guy that had a load of talent and that, from a skill standpoint, could dominate. But he just simply could not handle the mental aspects of how to adjust and thrive when things aren't as easy as you'd like it to be. The flip side would be someone like Manu Ginobili. The same type of size, the same type of skill, but with the mental toughness to adjust and thriving in tough playing situations. Another comparison would be looking at a Frederick Weis and a Jusuf Nurkic. Same size and the same type of upside. One guy couldn't get pass being dunked on and the pressures of playing against 'men'. The other guy, got well pass the fact that he was playing a much harder game against much better talent and is right now one of the better centers in the NBA.

Hard to be sure, but it does seem like Avdija is moreof of the later type of player than the former.

Avdija currently is 6th on my list of BPA. Top 5 in no real order are: Ball, Edwards, Wiseman, Hayes and Okongwu. The top 5 are the guys that I think that has the ability to become all-stars in the NBA. Avdija to me is on the bubble. If he has a Manu type mentality then yes I can see him becoming a star cause he's got a lot of talent that I think will translate from a current day NBA perspective.

Like the fact that many very nice players are dropping past 5. Obi is one that is going to surprise alot of folks, reminds me of Larry "granma" Johnson.

[moocow007]

Let's assume the Knicks are picking....6th. No luck and no bad luck.

And...LaMelo goes...#3. Assumptions being that whoever got #1 and #2 didn't need a PG, wanted Edwards and Wiseman. Or Obi. Whatever.
Well, for arguments sake, assume Wiseman goes off the board before #6.

I'm not even speculating on teams, just the first 5 are:

Edwards
Wiseman
LaMelo
Obi
Haliburton (to take another desired PG off the board)
Knicks

What's the cost to get LaMelo.
Obviously it starts the #6 pick, and taking the player team #3 wants with that pick.

What's the additional cost? Realistically? I have no idea, other than to compare to the Trae Young/Luka trade, but in that instance, it was much more closely regarded players

The 2018 NBA Draft-day transaction that sent the Atlanta Hawks‘ first-round pick, Luka Doncic, to the Dallas Mavericks in exchange for their first-round pick, Trae Young, and an additional first-round selection the following year will always be a hot topic for debate.

So, the starting discussion seems to be mid to low lottery pick or equivalent AND something more, since there's a perceived talent gap between LaMelo and the rest of the draft, or the usual gap between top 3 and 4-8, generally

Knicks #6, and "______" and "_______"
A dallas pick (not the HS all in year) and a player?

I would try to trade up to get LaMelo to be quite honest. If the Knicks end up at where they are slotted, trading up would be a very viable solution. The problem of course is what a team will want from the Knicks. The problem with trading LaMelo Ball for any team is that if he turns out to be what his upside says he could be, you may need to be looking for a new job. The Knicks need talent, not depth, they need more of a sure thing and not more of a risk, they need a shot creator. That is Ball. Ball would be an excellent addition to a foundation to Barret and Robinson.

Ball ALSO would likely be the biggest attraction for potential free agents among anyone that can be drafted in this draft. This is something that I've said before. IF the Knicks are looking to build around their youth, Ball is the best fit cause he can create easy shot opportunities for the Barrett's and Robinson's and Knox's of the world. IF instead the Knicks are looking to attract big name free agents, Ball also would be the most enticing cause he'd be most able to make lives easier for star players and get them easy looks at the basket and serve as the perfect "Beta" or "Robin" to a stud offensively big name player.

Also it would depend on which team was picking 3rd. Assuming it's the Wolves then yeah it's possible that maybe including both Dallas 1st rounders along with the 6th overall pick would do it. The Wolves don't need Ball per se. And they may gamble on Atlanta and Detroit (4th and 5th) not picking the guy that probably fits the best for them (Okongwu) to grab a couple future 1sts.

Now if the Knicks can't trade up and stay with 6th (Ball is not going to make it to 6th no matter what Lavar does and postures) then it would, in your scenario, be taking either Killian Hayes or Onyeka Okongwu. Both players have tremendous upside and I'd be thanking my stars that teams 4 and 5 took the lesser guard and forward in Haliburton and Toppin. Overall I think Okongwu has higher upside but Hayes would clearly be a better fit.

But then again, assuming that the draft goes in that order and the teams are pickign exactly in the position they are currently at, then yeah I can see the Wolves and Knicks maybe working out a trade where the Knicks pick Okongwu and package his draft rights along with the Dallas picks for the draft rights to LaMelo Ball. I do believe that Okongwu is the guy that the Wolves want (he'd be the perfect compliment to pair with KAT and Russell) but would be hard pressed to pick him if Ball is still on the board. One of the Dallas picks? Both of the Dallas picks? Not sure what it would take. Depends on how good Leon Rose and Gerrsson Rosas are at in their respective jobs.