Just Sad, "Chicago sees deadliest Memorial Day weekend in four years"

[bullsnewdynasty]

From what I've been hearing and reading, while the vast majority don't like seeing the destruction and violence that's taking place, they do UNDERSTAND why it's happening.

Watch on YouTube

Yeah, people decided to honor Floyd by breaking into Nike and stealing a bunch of clothes, in the middle of ruining downtown Chicago.

By equivocating in denouncing this garbage, you are destroying any kind of goodwill or bipartisan solution. This country is a house divided if we can't even call out criminal activity for what it is.

If saying that people understand why the rioting is happening is in your mind enough to "destroy any kind of goodwill or bipartisan solution", then there wasn't much of an effort on your part (or the mindset you represent) in the first place.

Because there's nothing to "understand" about lawless people running around destroying a city. It's utterly disgusting.

[League Circles]

The vagueness is understandable by common people who are afraid and hurting due to these problems. It's not really understandable IMO from actual leaders of organizations, especially political organizations. I'm seeing a lot of politicians "making strong statements", "condemning injustice", and "promoting change". Not seeing a lot of legislation being drafted. This is the moment where politicians can finally put up or shut up and be replaced. Inept ass patronizers is what I predict they'll mostly prove to be. I hope I'm wrong.

I agree, the focus should be on policies and productive changes. Unfortunately that is a widespread government problem.

It's not that easy though. Police are already understaffed and underpaid, now people want to implement new regulations that will deter anyone from wanting to become a police officer if liability is increased substantially.

So the argument is- if we try to rein in the police at all, no one will want to become a cop and then we won't have a police force, and then where will be? Police force reform has been a major issue among most large urban police forces since the 60's, and we haven't seen police forces shrivel up and blow away. If someone being held liable if they apply a choke hold to someone for 9 minutes until they die is going to stop person X from joining the force, that's a good thing.

IMO, you have to drastically increase pay. The other poster was just pointing out the reality. We need to draw better people into the ranks, and that's not gonna happen without waaaaay better pay. Especially if they're going to be subject to all the additional new liability and scrutiny that I promote such as body cams

[2018C3]

I agree, the focus should be on policies and productive changes. Unfortunately that is a widespread government problem.

It's not that easy though. Police are already understaffed and underpaid, now people want to implement new regulations that will deter anyone from wanting to become a police officer if liability is increased substantially.

So the argument is- if we try to rein in the police at all, no one will want to become a cop and then we won't have a police force, and then where will be? Police force reform has been a major issue among most large urban police forces since the 60's, and we haven't seen police forces shrivel up and blow away. If someone being held liable if they apply a choke hold to someone for 9 minutes until they die is going to stop person X from joining the force, that's a good thing.

IMO, you have to drastically increase pay. The other poster was just pointing out the reality. We need to draw better people into the ranks, and that's not gonna happen without waaaaay better pay. Especially if they're going to be subject to all the additional new liability and scrutiny that I promote such as body cams

Yes, Increase requirements, Increase training, and Increase pay. I personally know 4 police officers within my group of friends, and the job they do is not easy.

[dice]

nobody suggested otherwise. strawman argument

but you're absolutely right. people are not obligated to believe that racial inequality exists in this country. but it does. and that's what kaepernick knelt for. hundreds of other players, some white, followed suit

1) slavery is the root of all of this
2) who did i call racist? confederate flag supporters? did you take personal offense to that? you sure are inventing a lot of stuff that other people supposedly said in this thread

Kaepernick's entire platform is that the US is a racist country, stop trying to hide from it and embrace it.

it IS a racist country. i mean, the current occupant of the white has had "white nationalists" serving in prominent positions! a huge chunk of one of our two major political parties thinks that the previous president, born in hawaii, was secretly born in kenya. a "kenyan socialist." not because they hoped he would somehow be found ineligible to be president, mind you (children of american citizens are themselves american citizens regardless of birthplace), but because they wanted justification for considering him "other", i.e. not a "real" american

is the USA as racist as it was several decades ago? not even close. are there other countries that are MORE racist? of course. but it's still a major issue. and addressing that issue does not make a person ungrateful

Anybody who brings up slavery in 2020 has a victim complex. Nobody living on this earth had anything to do with slavery. Most people's ancestors came to the United States with nothing.

did somebody here suggest otherwise? why do you keep doing this?

i'll reiterate the point that you missed: mass slavery causes societal problems. for a long, long time, it does not require people who participated to still be around. the problems do not go away when they expire. a terrible legacy is left behind

there ARE people still alive that suffered mightily during the civil rights era. and that pain is felt both directly by their living grandchildren/great-grandchildren and indirectly by the societal inequalities that have improved significantly but still exist. it's a continuum

white people have no right to tell black people how they should feel about the racial past of this country or how it should effect them. nor the racial present. no right whatsoever. it's a PROFOUNDLY arrogant and ignorant mindset

The United States is the most free, prosperous country in the history of the world. It would be nice if Kaepernick showed a little appreciation after earning generational wealth. Try living in China or North Korea where protesting gets you put in prison or a labor camp.

did kaepernick say that china or north korea are better than the united states? why is it that when anybody suggests that the USA can be better, people play the card that you just played?

and why should kaepernick show appreciation for selling his services? nobody gave him that. that's a plantation mindset. i would guess that he very much appreciates his privilege. but he doesn't OWE that appreciation to a country or an employer, neither of which gave him anything out of the goodness of their hearts, any more than the employer or nation owe HIM appreciation

i haven't seen anything that could reasonably called sympathy for looting and rioting in this thread. maybe some people feel that, but it's foreign to me

trump pretended not to know who david duke is in order to not denounce him. there isn't any question about his equivocation. that the KKK strongly supports him is all the evidence you need

white supremacy is a fundamental, constant and pervasive force in america. rioting and looting are not. and the latter is, in some part, a symptom of the former. while unlikely, i would not be surprised at all if they find links between the charged cop in minneapolis and white supremacist groups. and no, that doesn't mean that rioting and looting are acceptable, before you pretend that i said that

looting a nike store is about the dumbest thing you can do optically if you're trying to advance black equality ("those thugs sure do love their air jordans")

It's no different, it just doesn't suit your political point of view. And there's evidence all over the thread.

what's no different? looting and white supremacy? that's deranged. if somebody created a worldwide poll about which is worse, ongoing white supremacy or sporadic looting, the results would be quite lopsided. that ain't politics. that's being a human being with a basic sense of humanity and proportionality

the democratic party unfortunately still has quite a few racist supporters too, by the way. that's how pervasive it still is in this country

[dice]

“The thing that strikes me is that we all see this police violence and racism and we’ve seen it all before but nothing changes. That’s why these protests have been so explosive. But without leadership and an understanding of what the problem is, there will never be change. And white Americans have avoided reckoning with this problem forever because it’s been our privilege to be able to avoid it. That also has to change.

It’s unbelievable. If Trump had a brain, even if it was 99 percent cynical, he would come out and say something to unify people. But he doesn’t care about bringing people together. Even now. That’s how deranged he is. It’s all about him. It’s all about what benefits him personally. It’s never about the greater good. And that’s all he’s ever been.

It’s so clear what needs to be done. We need a president to come out and say simply that ‘Black Lives Matter.’ Just say those three words. But he won’t and he can’t. He can’t because it’s more important to him to mollify the small group of followers who validate his insanity. But it’s more than just Trump. The system has to change. I’ll do whatever I can do to help because that’s what leaders do. But he can’t do anything to put us on a positive path because he’s not a leader.

It’s like what Lindsay Graham and Ted Cruz used to say when they had the courage to say it: He’s unfit. But they have chosen instead to be invisible and obsequious in the face of this carnage. In the end what we have is a fool in place of a president, while the person who really runs the country, Senator Mitch McConnell, destroys the United States for generations to come. McConnell has destroyed and degraded our judicial system. He has tried to destroy heath care. He’s destroyed the environment. He’s the master and Trump’s the stooge, and what’s funny is that Trump doesn’t even know it. Trump’s always wanted to be part of the in-group, but McConnell is an in-group of one and Trump plays the fool.

He’s not just divisive. He’s a destroyer. To be in his presence makes you die. He will eat you alive for his own purposes. I’m appalled that we have a leader who can’t say ‘Black Lives Matter.’ That’s why he hides in the White House basement. He is a coward. He creates a situation and runs away like a grade-schooler. Actually, I think it’s best to ignore him. There is nothing he can do to make this better because of who he is: a deranged idiot.

[The protests] are very necessary, but they need to be organized better. It’s frustrating. When Dr. King did a protest, you knew when to show, when to come back the next day. But if you’re just organizing protests and everyone is coming and going in every direction, it doesn’t work that way. If it was nonviolent, they knew to be nonviolent, but this is muddled. More leadership would be very welcome so these incredible mass demonstrations can’t be used by people for other means. We can limit the bad, but only if things are organized better.”

-gregg popovich, united states air force veteran

Its not just Trump.

true, but trump is like nothing we've seen in generations

Both political parties have taken extreme stances, and whether they know it or not it's their actions that are actively working towards dividing this country.

both parties CONTAIN extreme positions. which is to be expected when congressional districts are gerrymandered to the hilt and there are hundreds of house members. but the democratic party as a whole has never been extreme. nor was the republican party at least until newt gingrich polluted the party. but the party has been on the train to crazy town since the reagan revolution:

I wish we could have more presidential candidates who are independent with the best interest of the people, and are not tied to these stupid two party Democratic / Republican ideals. These two parties constantly fighting everyday in the news is what has caused what we are seeing today.

eliminating parties entirely is an interesting idea. certainly more realistic that having more than 2 parties. but it's still probably not realistic

Maybe the solution is to cut all corporate and private donations to any candidate that runs, This way any candidate could run on personal ideals.

unfortunately, the right wing of the supreme court ruled as a majority that corporations should be considered people and money is free speech

[bullsnewdynasty]

it IS a racist country. i mean, the current occupant of the white has had "white nationalists" serving in prominent positions! a huge chunk of one of our two major political parties thinks that the previous president, born in hawaii, was secretly born in kenya. a "kenyan socialist." not because they hoped he would somehow be found ineligible to be president, mind you (children of american citizens are themselves american citizens regardless of birthplace), but because they wanted justification for considering him "other", i.e. not a "real" american

is the USA as racist as it was several decades ago? not even close. are there other countries that are MORE racist? of course. but it's still a major issue. and addressing that issue does not make a person ungrateful

There will always be racist people, that will never change no matter what, and that is not limited to white people.

did somebody here suggest otherwise? why do you keep doing this?

i'll reiterate the point that you missed: mass slavery causes societal problems. for a long, long time, it does not require people who participated to still be around. the problems do not go away when they expire. a terrible legacy is left behind

there ARE people still alive that suffered mightily during the civil rights era. and that pain is felt both directly by their living grandchildren/great-grandchildren and indirectly by the societal inequalities that have improved significantly but still exist. it's a continuum

white people have no right to tell black people how they should feel about the racial past of this country or how it should effect them. nor the racial present. no right whatsoever. it's profoundly arrogant and ignorant

I don't see successful people blaming slavery for holding them back. If the US was so racist, a guy like Obama would have never become president. Seems like the land of opportunity to me.

did kaepernick say that china or north korea are better than the united states? why is it that when anybody suggests that the USA can be better, people play the card that you just played?

and why should kaepernick show appreciation for selling his services? nobody gave him that. that's a plantation mindset. i would guess that he very much appreciates his privilege. but he doesn't OWE that appreciation to a country or an employer, neither of which gave him anything out of the goodness of their hearts, any more than the employer or nation owe HIM appreciation

Because Kaepernick and the majority of Americans have it good. Around a $33,000 income is a top 1% earner in the world, let alone freedoms that the rest of the world only dreams about.

Bringing up African American slavery in 2020 is an insult to people who have to deal with real persecution around the globe. Like those people in sweatshops that make Kaepernick Nike shoes and t-shirts. That's why Kaepernick is a hypocrite - doesn't care about worker exploitation in 3rd world.

what's no different? looting and white supremacy? that's deranged. if somebody created a worldwide poll about which is worse, ongoing white supremacy or sporadic looting, the results would be quite lopsided. that ain't politics. that's being a human being with a basic sense of humanity and proportionality

the democratic party unfortunately still has quite a few racist supporters too, by the way. that's how pervasive it still is in this country

Trump equivocating on white supremacism is the same as equivocating on looting by saying you understand them. The only difference is one supports your point of view and one doesn't.

[2018C3]

There will always be racists. But in general this trend is fading.

I will admit as a young boy my grandfather was initially racist, but eventually turned those thoughts later in life as He and my Grandmother acquired more experiences and direct interactions with other races.

Later in life, my grandparents had a black women caretaker, and that was the first time they told me they were wrong. After she left they had a Filipino caretaker who stuck with them for many years until both my grandfather and my grandmother passed. She was so found of him that she put him in the will, and left him more money then I got. It was enough dollars to pay for a education so he could achieve his dreams, (He deserved it, as he was excellent with them). He has now graduated, and still keeps in touch with the rest of the family on a regular basis. He is now considered part or our family after spending nearly a decade with us.

As a white guy, I just don't see the issue the media always pushes, Ever since a young age I have always been taught by my parents that everyone regardless of color is equal. I also now have a diverse family, Through marriages we have other whites, Asians, and Blacks in the family now.

I have personally dated White, Asian, and Mexican women. A lot of my friends I grew up with also now have mixed families. (Including two of my white Cop Friends, I just wanted to add this in a edit).

Its just hard for me to comprehend why some people feel so differently. and take a us verses them attitude.

[dice]

it IS a racist country. i mean, the current occupant of the white has had "white nationalists" serving in prominent positions! a huge chunk of one of our two major political parties thinks that the previous president, born in hawaii, was secretly born in kenya. a "kenyan socialist." not because they hoped he would somehow be found ineligible to be president, mind you (children of american citizens are themselves american citizens regardless of birthplace), but because they wanted justification for considering him "other", i.e. not a "real" american

is the USA as racist as it was several decades ago? not even close. are there other countries that are MORE racist? of course. but it's still a major issue. and addressing that issue does not make a person ungrateful

There will always be racist people, that will never change no matter what, and that is not limited to white people.

very true. but this is not a discussion about the complete eradication of individual racists. it is about systemic racism. which can and should be eliminated rather than throwing up one's hands helplessly while saying "we're never going to totally get rid of racism, so why bother fixing/improving what we can!"

did somebody here suggest otherwise? why do you keep doing this?

i'll reiterate the point that you missed: mass slavery causes societal problems. for a long, long time, it does not require people who participated to still be around. the problems do not go away when they expire. a terrible legacy is left behind

there ARE people still alive that suffered mightily during the civil rights era. and that pain is felt both directly by their living grandchildren/great-grandchildren and indirectly by the societal inequalities that have improved significantly but still exist. it's a continuum

white people have no right to tell black people how they should feel about the racial past of this country or how it should effect them. nor the racial present. no right whatsoever. it's profoundly arrogant and ignorant

I don't see successful people blaming slavery for holding them back.

nobody blames slavery for holding them back. WTF are you talking about? that doesn't mean that the legacy of slavery isn't still with us. as evidenced by the black community SINCE slavery never at any point gaining anything close to economic parity

if, say, 20% of white people become financially successful, and 10% of black people do, you don't get to say "see, there are successful black people! racism didn't hold THEM back, so racism isn't really a problem anymore!" it's intellectually dishonest

If the US was so racist, a guy like Obama would have never become president.

if the united states wasn't very racist, the reaction to a moderate, even-tempered to a fault black president would not have produced such a virulent response. loads of racists came out of the woodwork after the election of barack obama. and republican officials, as usual, tolerated it. as they have since they absorbed the racist dixiecrats into their party in the '60s and implemented the "southern strategy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

if the united states wasn't very racist, a man who entered the political arena by being the leading proponent of a racist conspiracy theory would not CURRENTLY be president

donald trump is a symptom of a long-festering racist rot in the republican party. there's no way around it

did kaepernick say that china or north korea are better than the united states? why is it that when anybody suggests that the USA can be better, people play the card that you just played?

and why should kaepernick show appreciation for selling his services? nobody gave him that. that's a plantation mindset. i would guess that he very much appreciates his privilege. but he doesn't OWE that appreciation to a country or an employer, neither of which gave him anything out of the goodness of their hearts, any more than the employer or nation owe HIM appreciation

Because Kaepernick and the majority of Americans have it good. Around a $33,000 income is a top 1% earner in the world, let alone freedoms that the rest of the world only dreams about.

"you're not doing as well as white people, but don't be a hypocrite and complain. after all, you've got it better than a lot of people around the world! so accept your status as a people and shut up"

does that pretty much sum it up?

guess what? american slaves had it better than some people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation? blacks in the jim crow south had it better than a LOT of people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation?

your argument is complete BS

Bringing up African American slavery in 2020 is an insult to people who have to deal with real persecution around the globe. Like those people in sweatshops that make Kaepernick Nike shoes and t-shirts. That's why Kaepernick is a hypocrite.

you are not qualified to make that statement unless you are a black american. exactly the arrogant and ignorant mindset i was talking about

what's no different? looting and white supremacy? that's deranged. if somebody created a worldwide poll about which is worse, ongoing white supremacy or sporadic looting, the results would be quite lopsided. that ain't politics. that's being a human being with a basic sense of humanity and proportionality

the democratic party unfortunately still has quite a few racist supporters too, by the way. that's how pervasive it still is in this country

Trump equivocating on white supremacism is the same as equivocating on looting by saying you understand them. The only difference is one supports your point of view and one doesn't.

no it's not. because, you see (and i can't believe i have to explain this to another adult), incidents of looting, while very bad ACTIONS, can be rooted in very valid anger. whereas white supremacism is not only permanent but rooted in nothing at all valid

and the people looting are not the goddamn "leader" of the free world!

i'm not going to explain this stuff to you anymore. when your starting point is "why are black people so upset? they actually have it really good", we're too far apart. one last time for the road:

1) nobody is justified in telling black people how they should feel about anything involving racial disparity in america
2) it is OK for ANYBODY to discuss pervasive, structural inequity in any form and at any time
3) looting in response to an upsetting incident is entirely unjustifiable. it is not nearly as bad as pervasive racism (by any group)

[Red8911]

Jesus. Trump just announced he's deploying the military to NYC, CHI, DC, ATL, Minneapolis and LA, apparently.

As he held a bible upside in front of a church. Told you all he was going to do was flare things up, not calm them down. It's a who has the bigger you know what contest to him.

I'm surprised the court docs of him and child rape haven't made a bigger circulation along with his SSN being posted all by the hack group Anonymous.

Trump is flaring things up? Lol. Don’t you think the criminals that are vandalizing, stealing, and scaring people are the ones that are doing all the “flaring”?

This needs to stop, they can’t let them keep doing this and if the police can’t handle them then yeah it would be necessary to bring in the military. He’s pressuring the states to contain the situation. He didn’t say anything wrong there and everything he has said regarding this whole thing has been fine. You will disagree because in your opinion Trump doesn’t do or say anything right and he’s to blame for everything. In reality though this chaos is happening because of the media and the left. This is what they want.

[dice]

white nationalist group pretending to be antifa and promoting violence at rallies:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/twitter-takes-down-washington-protest-disinformation-bot-behavior-n1221456

all sorts of extremist groups involved in protests:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/videos-threats-few-signs-protests-have-been-stoked-outsider-extremist-n1220451

[dice]

obama weighs in:

https://medium.com/@BarackObama/how-to-make-this-moment-the-turning-point-for-real-change-9fa209806067

trump weighing whether to make a formal national address:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/01/politics/donald-trump-race-police/index.html

[dice]

Jesus. Trump just announced he's deploying the military to NYC, CHI, DC, ATL, Minneapolis and LA, apparently.

As he held a bible upside in front of a church. Told you all he was going to do was flare things up, not calm them down. It's a who has the bigger you know what contest to him.

I'm surprised the court docs of him and child rape haven't made a bigger circulation along with his SSN being posted all by the hack group Anonymous.

Trump is flaring things up? Lol. Don’t you think the criminals that are vandalizing, stealing, and scaring people are the ones that are doing all the “flaring”?

This needs to stop, they can’t let them keep doing this and if the police can’t handle them then yeah it would be necessary to bring in the military. He’s pressuring the states to contain the situation. He didn’t say anything wrong there and everything he has said regarding this whole thing has been fine. You will disagree because in your opinion Trump doesn’t do or say anything right and he’s to blame for everything. In reality though this chaos is happening because of the media and the left. This is what they want.

right wing groups are fanning the violence as well. it a smorgasbord. plenty to go around

meanwhile, trump is harping on antifa despite little evidence that they are playing a significant role (and which is pointless at best if they are). saying he's going to declare them a terrorist group even though they're not an actual organization and the designation would be meaningless. and berating governors. none of this is productive. i wouldn't say that he's "flaring things up", but he's certainly not making much of an effort to calm things down with his rhetoric

[2018C3]

it IS a racist country. i mean, the current occupant of the white has had "white nationalists" serving in prominent positions! a huge chunk of one of our two major political parties thinks that the previous president, born in hawaii, was secretly born in kenya. a "kenyan socialist." not because they hoped he would somehow be found ineligible to be president, mind you (children of american citizens are themselves american citizens regardless of birthplace), but because they wanted justification for considering him "other", i.e. not a "real" american

is the USA as racist as it was several decades ago? not even close. are there other countries that are MORE racist? of course. but it's still a major issue. and addressing that issue does not make a person ungrateful

There will always be racist people, that will never change no matter what, and that is not limited to white people.

very true. but this is not a discussion about the complete eradication of individual racists. it is about systemic racism. which can and should be eliminated rather than throwing up one's hands helplessly while saying "we're never going to totally get rid of racism, so why bother fixing/improving what we can!"

did somebody here suggest otherwise? why do you keep doing this?

i'll reiterate the point that you missed: mass slavery causes societal problems. for a long, long time, it does not require people who participated to still be around. the problems do not go away when they expire. a terrible legacy is left behind

there ARE people still alive that suffered mightily during the civil rights era. and that pain is felt both directly by their living grandchildren/great-grandchildren and indirectly by the societal inequalities that have improved significantly but still exist. it's a continuum

white people have no right to tell black people how they should feel about the racial past of this country or how it should effect them. nor the racial present. no right whatsoever. it's profoundly arrogant and ignorant

I don't see successful people blaming slavery for holding them back.

nobody blames slavery for holding them back. WTF are you talking about? that doesn't mean that the legacy of slavery isn't still with us. as evidenced by the black community SINCE slavery never at any point gaining anything close to economic parity

if, say, 20% of white people become financially successful, and 10% of black people do, you don't get to say "see, there are successful black people! racism didn't hold THEM back, so racism isn't really a problem anymore!" it's intellectually dishonest

If the US was so racist, a guy like Obama would have never become president.

if the united states wasn't very racist, the reaction to a moderate, even-tempered to a fault black president would not have produced such a virulent response. loads of racists came out of the woodwork after the election of barack obama. and republican officials, as usual, tolerated it. as they have since they absorbed the racist dixiecrats into their party in the '60s and implemented the "southern strategy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

if the united states wasn't very racist, a man who entered the political arena by being the leading proponent of a racist conspiracy theory would not CURRENTLY be president

donald trump is a symptom of a long-festering racist rot in the republican party. there's no way around it

did kaepernick say that china or north korea are better than the united states? why is it that when anybody suggests that the USA can be better, people play the card that you just played?

and why should kaepernick show appreciation for selling his services? nobody gave him that. that's a plantation mindset. i would guess that he very much appreciates his privilege. but he doesn't OWE that appreciation to a country or an employer, neither of which gave him anything out of the goodness of their hearts, any more than the employer or nation owe HIM appreciation

Because Kaepernick and the majority of Americans have it good. Around a $33,000 income is a top 1% earner in the world, let alone freedoms that the rest of the world only dreams about.

"you're not doing as well as white people, but don't be a hypocrite and complain. after all, you've got it better than a lot of people around the world! so accept your status as a people and shut up"

does that pretty much sum it up?

guess what? american slaves had it better than some people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation? blacks in the jim crow south had it better than a LOT of people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation?

your argument is complete BS

Bringing up African American slavery in 2020 is an insult to people who have to deal with real persecution around the globe. Like those people in sweatshops that make Kaepernick Nike shoes and t-shirts. That's why Kaepernick is a hypocrite.

you are not qualified to make that statement unless you are a black american. exactly the arrogant and ignorant mindset i was talking about

what's no different? looting and white supremacy? that's deranged. if somebody created a worldwide poll about which is worse, ongoing white supremacy or sporadic looting, the results would be quite lopsided. that ain't politics. that's being a human being with a basic sense of humanity and proportionality

the democratic party unfortunately still has quite a few racist supporters too, by the way. that's how pervasive it still is in this country

Trump equivocating on white supremacism is the same as equivocating on looting by saying you understand them. The only difference is one supports your point of view and one doesn't.

no it's not. because, you see (and i can't believe i have to explain this to another adult), incidents of looting, while very bad ACTIONS, can be rooted in very valid anger. whereas white supremacism is not only permanent but rooted in nothing at all valid

and the people looting are not the goddamn "leader" of the free world!

i'm not going to explain this stuff to you anymore. when your starting point is "why are black people so upset? they actually have it really good", we're too far apart. one last time for the road:

1) nobody is justified in telling black people how they should feel about anything involving racial disparity in america
2) it is OK for ANYBODY to discuss pervasive, structural inequity in any form and at any time
3) looting in response to an upsetting incident is entirely unjustifiable. it is not nearly as bad as pervasive racism (by any group)

I have to respectively disagree. I will acknowledge that there are racists out there. But Obama won the election in a country that was 72% White. All colors of people voted for him including myself.

I'm actually have predominantly Republican values, but still voted for him because I thought He was the best candidate available, and I also at the time believed his election would improve racial relations for ever. I was very happy when he was elected, and I believe I even made a enthusiastic post here on these forums under the C3 id,

As I got more involved in politics I did not vote for him in the second term, but it had nothing to do with his race.

[dice]

There will always be racist people, that will never change no matter what, and that is not limited to white people.

very true. but this is not a discussion about the complete eradication of individual racists. it is about systemic racism. which can and should be eliminated rather than throwing up one's hands helplessly while saying "we're never going to totally get rid of racism, so why bother fixing/improving what we can!"

I don't see successful people blaming slavery for holding them back.

nobody blames slavery for holding them back. WTF are you talking about? that doesn't mean that the legacy of slavery isn't still with us. as evidenced by the black community SINCE slavery never at any point gaining anything close to economic parity

if, say, 20% of white people become financially successful, and 10% of black people do, you don't get to say "see, there are successful black people! racism didn't hold THEM back, so racism isn't really a problem anymore!" it's intellectually dishonest

If the US was so racist, a guy like Obama would have never become president.

if the united states wasn't very racist, the reaction to a moderate, even-tempered to a fault black president would not have produced such a virulent response. loads of racists came out of the woodwork after the election of barack obama. and republican officials, as usual, tolerated it. as they have since they absorbed the racist dixiecrats into their party in the '60s and implemented the "southern strategy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

if the united states wasn't very racist, a man who entered the political arena by being the leading proponent of a racist conspiracy theory would not CURRENTLY be president

donald trump is a symptom of a long-festering racist rot in the republican party. there's no way around it

Because Kaepernick and the majority of Americans have it good. Around a $33,000 income is a top 1% earner in the world, let alone freedoms that the rest of the world only dreams about.

"you're not doing as well as white people, but don't be a hypocrite and complain. after all, you've got it better than a lot of people around the world! so accept your status as a people and shut up"

does that pretty much sum it up?

guess what? american slaves had it better than some people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation? blacks in the jim crow south had it better than a LOT of people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation?

your argument is complete BS

Bringing up African American slavery in 2020 is an insult to people who have to deal with real persecution around the globe. Like those people in sweatshops that make Kaepernick Nike shoes and t-shirts. That's why Kaepernick is a hypocrite.

you are not qualified to make that statement unless you are a black american. exactly the arrogant and ignorant mindset i was talking about

Trump equivocating on white supremacism is the same as equivocating on looting by saying you understand them. The only difference is one supports your point of view and one doesn't.

no it's not. because, you see (and i can't believe i have to explain this to another adult), incidents of looting, while very bad ACTIONS, can be rooted in very valid anger. whereas white supremacism is not only permanent but rooted in nothing at all valid

and the people looting are not the goddamn "leader" of the free world!

i'm not going to explain this stuff to you anymore. when your starting point is "why are black people so upset? they actually have it really good", we're too far apart. one last time for the road:

1) nobody is justified in telling black people how they should feel about anything involving racial disparity in america
2) it is OK for ANYBODY to discuss pervasive, structural inequity in any form and at any time
3) looting in response to an upsetting incident is entirely unjustifiable. it is not nearly as bad as pervasive racism (by any group)

I have to respectively disagree. I will acknowledge that there are racists out there. But Obama won the election in a country that was 72% White. All colors of people voted for him including myself.

i'm hardly suggesting that 40+ percent of americans are racist. but racists are clearly a healthy portion of trump's base of support. it was his initial base of support. his recognition of the racial divide was his "in" to politics through his promotion of birtherism

I'm actually have predominantly Republican values, but still voted for him because I thought He was the best candidate available, and I also at the time believed his election would improve racial relations for ever. I was very happy when he was elected.

yeah, it's unfortunate that that didn't come close to happening. it may have improved race relations in the honeymoon period, but that ended real quick

[Dresden]

I agree, the focus should be on policies and productive changes. Unfortunately that is a widespread government problem.

It's not that easy though. Police are already understaffed and underpaid, now people want to implement new regulations that will deter anyone from wanting to become a police officer if liability is increased substantially.

So the argument is- if we try to rein in the police at all, no one will want to become a cop and then we won't have a police force, and then where will be? Police force reform has been a major issue among most large urban police forces since the 60's, and we haven't seen police forces shrivel up and blow away. If someone being held liable if they apply a choke hold to someone for 9 minutes until they die is going to stop person X from joining the force, that's a good thing.

IMO, you have to drastically increase pay. The other poster was just pointing out the reality. We need to draw better people into the ranks, and that's not gonna happen without waaaaay better pay. Especially if they're going to be subject to all the additional new liability and scrutiny that I promote such as body cams

Police are paid enough. And they have great benefits. If anyone deserves to be paid more, it's teachers.

[dice]

So the argument is- if we try to rein in the police at all, no one will want to become a cop and then we won't have a police force, and then where will be? Police force reform has been a major issue among most large urban police forces since the 60's, and we haven't seen police forces shrivel up and blow away. If someone being held liable if they apply a choke hold to someone for 9 minutes until they die is going to stop person X from joining the force, that's a good thing.

IMO, you have to drastically increase pay. The other poster was just pointing out the reality. We need to draw better people into the ranks, and that's not gonna happen without waaaaay better pay. Especially if they're going to be subject to all the additional new liability and scrutiny that I promote such as body cams

Police are paid enough. And they have great benefits. If anyone deserves to be paid more, it's teachers.

a lot of them do. very area dependent. i grew up in dupage county (wheaton, specifically), and as far back as the '90s there were long-serving teachers reaching six figure salaries

given that both teachers and police have unions, it's hard to imagine them getting substantially more money as they've already more or less maxed out their leverage. and while there are plenty of people who think that teachers deserve more money, there are also those who complain about teacher pensions jacking up state finances. plus, you know...summers off. and it's my sense (and hope, for the sake of the kids) that on average teachers find their jobs more rewarding than most professionals do

avg. teacher salary ranges from $43k in MS to 84K in NY
avg. police salary ranges from $39k in NC to $53k in NY. that ain't much given the risk involved

avg. retirement age is 55 for police and 59 for teachers

[bullsnewdynasty]

Spoiler:

it IS a racist country. i mean, the current occupant of the white has had "white nationalists" serving in prominent positions! a huge chunk of one of our two major political parties thinks that the previous president, born in hawaii, was secretly born in kenya. a "kenyan socialist." not because they hoped he would somehow be found ineligible to be president, mind you (children of american citizens are themselves american citizens regardless of birthplace), but because they wanted justification for considering him "other", i.e. not a "real" american

is the USA as racist as it was several decades ago? not even close. are there other countries that are MORE racist? of course. but it's still a major issue. and addressing that issue does not make a person ungrateful

There will always be racist people, that will never change no matter what, and that is not limited to white people.

very true. but this is not a discussion about the complete eradication of individual racists. it is about systemic racism. which can and should be eliminated rather than throwing up one's hands helplessly while saying "we're never going to totally get rid of racism, so why bother fixing/improving what we can!"

did somebody here suggest otherwise? why do you keep doing this?

i'll reiterate the point that you missed: mass slavery causes societal problems. for a long, long time, it does not require people who participated to still be around. the problems do not go away when they expire. a terrible legacy is left behind

there ARE people still alive that suffered mightily during the civil rights era. and that pain is felt both directly by their living grandchildren/great-grandchildren and indirectly by the societal inequalities that have improved significantly but still exist. it's a continuum

white people have no right to tell black people how they should feel about the racial past of this country or how it should effect them. nor the racial present. no right whatsoever. it's profoundly arrogant and ignorant

I don't see successful people blaming slavery for holding them back.

nobody blames slavery for holding them back. WTF are you talking about? that doesn't mean that the legacy of slavery isn't still with us. as evidenced by the black community SINCE slavery never at any point gaining anything close to economic parity

if, say, 20% of white people become financially successful, and 10% of black people do, you don't get to say "see, there are successful black people! racism didn't hold THEM back, so racism isn't really a problem anymore!" it's intellectually dishonest

If the US was so racist, a guy like Obama would have never become president.

if the united states wasn't very racist, the reaction to a moderate, even-tempered to a fault black president would not have produced such a virulent response. loads of racists came out of the woodwork after the election of barack obama. and republican officials, as usual, tolerated it. as they have since they absorbed the racist dixiecrats into their party in the '60s and implemented the "southern strategy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

if the united states wasn't very racist, a man who entered the political arena by being the leading proponent of a racist conspiracy theory would not CURRENTLY be president

donald trump is a symptom of a long-festering racist rot in the republican party. there's no way around it

did kaepernick say that china or north korea are better than the united states? why is it that when anybody suggests that the USA can be better, people play the card that you just played?

and why should kaepernick show appreciation for selling his services? nobody gave him that. that's a plantation mindset. i would guess that he very much appreciates his privilege. but he doesn't OWE that appreciation to a country or an employer, neither of which gave him anything out of the goodness of their hearts, any more than the employer or nation owe HIM appreciation

Because Kaepernick and the majority of Americans have it good. Around a $33,000 income is a top 1% earner in the world, let alone freedoms that the rest of the world only dreams about.

"you're not doing as well as white people, but don't be a hypocrite and complain. after all, you've got it better than a lot of people around the world! so accept your status as a people and shut up"

does that pretty much sum it up?

guess what? american slaves had it better than some people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation? blacks in the jim crow south had it better than a LOT of people around the world. were they hypocrites for complaining about their situation?

your argument is complete BS

Bringing up African American slavery in 2020 is an insult to people who have to deal with real persecution around the globe. Like those people in sweatshops that make Kaepernick Nike shoes and t-shirts. That's why Kaepernick is a hypocrite.

you are not qualified to make that statement unless you are a black american. exactly the arrogant and ignorant mindset i was talking about

what's no different? looting and white supremacy? that's deranged. if somebody created a worldwide poll about which is worse, ongoing white supremacy or sporadic looting, the results would be quite lopsided. that ain't politics. that's being a human being with a basic sense of humanity and proportionality

the democratic party unfortunately still has quite a few racist supporters too, by the way. that's how pervasive it still is in this country

Trump equivocating on white supremacism is the same as equivocating on looting by saying you understand them. The only difference is one supports your point of view and one doesn't.

no it's not. because, you see (and i can't believe i have to explain this to another adult), incidents of looting, while very bad ACTIONS, can be rooted in very valid anger. whereas white supremacism is not only permanent but rooted in nothing at all valid

and the people looting are not the goddamn "leader" of the free world!

i'm not going to explain this stuff to you anymore. when your starting point is "why are black people so upset? they actually have it really good", we're too far apart. one last time for the road:

1) nobody is justified in telling black people how they should feel about anything involving racial disparity in america
2) it is OK for ANYBODY to discuss pervasive, structural inequity in any form and at any time
3) looting in response to an upsetting incident is entirely unjustifiable. it is not nearly as bad as pervasive racism (by any group)

If white people aren't allowed to have an opinion on racial issues, then there is no point in having a discussion. Like I said before, zero constructive dialogue in doing that. Liberals preach tolerance and then want to shut down opinions they don't like. Lecturing white people on what they can and can't say is a fast way to get tuned out.

Black people also have no justification for telling white people what they should feel. Imagine being used as a scapegoat for large amounts of self-inflicted damage and having your whole race blamed for historical and race incidents that you had nothing to do with. White people are literally being brainwashed into hating their race because of what people are saying. They are the only group that is not allowed to be proud of their race.

[2018C3]

My family was not even yet in this country when slavery occurred. They ended up coming to this country well after around WW2.

The sad fact is the African Americans who are decedents of slaves, have more direct blood line DNA ancestry tied to those original White tyrant slave owners, and disgraced times than I do.

Watch on YouTube

I love Charles attitude in life, and scene of humor, Out of all the guys big stars from my youth, I think he would be the most fun to drink a beer with.

[jc23]

I do feel there are some shady individuals involved with inciting some of the vandalism and looting with these protests but the majority of looters are just opportunistic people with low morals.

Because the news only shows the video of what gets them the most ratings all i seem to see is violence but i feel the most protests happening around the world are without looting or violence.

[Dominator83]

Jesus. Trump just announced he's deploying the military to NYC, CHI, DC, ATL, Minneapolis and LA, apparently.

As he held a bible upside in front of a church. Told you all he was going to do was flare things up, not calm them down. It's a who has the bigger you know what contest to him.

I'm surprised the court docs of him and child rape haven't made a bigger circulation along with his SSN being posted all by the hack group Anonymous.

Trump is flaring things up? Lol. Don’t you think the criminals that are vandalizing, stealing, and scaring people are the ones that are doing all the “flaring”?

This needs to stop, they can’t let them keep doing this and if the police can’t handle them then yeah it would be necessary to bring in the military. He’s pressuring the states to contain the situation. He didn’t say anything wrong there and everything he has said regarding this whole thing has been fine. You will disagree because in your opinion Trump doesn’t do or say anything right and he’s to blame for everything. In reality though this chaos is happening because of the media and the left. This is what they want.

Yea the whole "Trump said this and made it worse" thing is a copout. When Trump speaks, nobody's listening anyway.