OT: Cops kill George Floyd

[j4remi]

We recorded this last Sunday and it took hella long to get processed because of sounds issues. But we did an episode of my podcast that spent 5 minutes on a COVID update then discussed Floyd, the protests, the brutality and the initial riots. Some has changed already and there's a lot more brutality that's been on display, but I think a lot of this has held up. A very George Floyd and BLM focused episode of my podcast TFP

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-fans-perspective/e/70220890?autoplay=true

[Clyde_Style]

Which of you are up in the Bronx now?

I just watched reports on how local people are thieving hard in areas of the Bronx. I'm not singling out the Bronx. It is merely what I just watched and it isn't pretty. Not just hardened criminal types, but local people joining in on the mayhem, wiping out every kind of store.

Not like I haven't seen this before, but it is important to also not lose sight of the truth that these looters are destroying their local shopkeepers lives and hurting their neighborhood. People can't get their heart and cancer medication, because these pieces of chit destroyed their local pharmacy and stole it all.

That's not protest. As long as that goes on Trump and the cops will point to the looting for justification of what they do even when they're bashing innocent protestors.

Looters could still get Trump re-elected.

And if this keeps up it will lead to more dead civilians

I'm up here and so far myt block is quiet. Must be around shopping centers, Fordham got got hit alittle but for the most part not many, and importantly nor burned.

But again this looting is not about our consciousness rising, but just meaninglessness. Sometimes we have to handle ourselves and not let young brothers miss the point by not talking to them directly.

My only wish is that a dude like Lebron buy a $5,000,000 slot on ESPN and tell the young to chill.
Take out a fkn commerical with a bunch of Athletes, reminding the young how to act under these circumstances and how important it is.

Step up. Where the stars @?

This woman eloquently expressed the feelings of many of the people that you’re talking down to. I urge you to listen, as I urged folks to pay attention to the message Kaepernick was trying to convey. I’m also saying that the sanitation of MLK and the civil rights movement have dulled folk’s revolutionary spirit and it’s purposeful. The cops weren’t arrested because of peaceful protest.

Read on Twitter

Tell that to the local pharmacist who spent 30 years at your location in your neighborhood why he loses his life's work because "the man" broke the contract. Tell that to the cancer patient down the block who may now die because that pharmacy has no meds to give them.

[Clyde_Style]

Which of you are up in the Bronx now?

I just watched reports on how local people are thieving hard in areas of the Bronx. I'm not singling out the Bronx. It is merely what I just watched and it isn't pretty. Not just hardened criminal types, but local people joining in on the mayhem, wiping out every kind of store.

Not like I haven't seen this before, but it is important to also not lose sight of the truth that these looters are destroying their local shopkeepers lives and hurting their neighborhood. People can't get their heart and cancer medication, because these pieces of chit destroyed their local pharmacy and stole it all.

That's not protest. As long as that goes on Trump and the cops will point to the looting for justification of what they do even when they're bashing innocent protestors.

Looters could still get Trump re-elected.

And if this keeps up it will lead to more dead civilians

I get all the implicit and explicit racism in how people react to the rioting that goes on around the protests. I get the anger behind the rioting, but also understand some is just opportunism\outsiders.

I just want to point out, as someone who knows a LOT of conservatives (starting to feel like TOO many), that even the smallest amount of rioting almost immediately puts them firmly back into their "law and order" ways (yes, I know the racial subtext that most of that represents). The more there is, the firmer they go there.

The hardened types? Biden wasn't getting their vote anyway, so who cares. Other than maybe some that would've sat this election out will vote. But I'm concerned about squishy suburban conservative independents, the kind that can swing the election.

I get the points that some violence of action works. I think people just need to be clear how it plays with votes who will probably decide the election. And if that calculation works for people, I could see that, though if you think sh*t is bad right now, wait until you get 4 more years of Trump, but unleashed. With Bill Barr with a mandate to turn American into his vision. Which is white, highly conservative, highly religiously conservative, STRONG "law and order". And all that all those imply.

It absolutely does play into the hands of the opposition.

Nobody can convince me that 400 years of suffering justifies looting at a time when that may lead to consolidation of autocratic rule that will PERMANENTLY incarcerate every one of us in a police state for the rest of our lives.

That is EXACTLY what the extreme rightists hope for. More looting.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

This is dangerous folks

[Clyde_Style]

Read on Twitter

This is dangerous folks

It is extremely bad

It means Barr is all in on manufacturing proof of domestic terrorism

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[robillionaire]

But I'm concerned about squishy suburban conservative independents, the kind that can swing the election.

I get the points that some violence of action works. I think people just need to be clear how it plays with votes who will probably decide the election

That is the problem. Suburban white conservatives are portrayed as the demographic who will decide the election, so that's why they are getting the red carpet rolled out for them and catered to with right wing economic policy social policy and rhetoric. While black people get their issues put on the back burner and are being told just to calm down and vote for dems or you ain't black. Electoral politics have failed to bring about the necessary change. So black people are still getting killed in the streets, peaceful protesters brutalized by the police in many cities even with democrats in charge who are putting in place the curfew and standing by the cops, and people are being asked to stop because they must appease the feelings of the white conservative suburbanite and we should avoid scaring them or inconveniencing them in any way. When your vote is considered a given and taken for granted, you get nothing from electoral politics. When black people and even poor people are once again considered the demographic "who can swing an election" that is the point electoral politics will might begin to promise some change (delivering on the change is another story). But what is delivering immediate results? What is causing these issues to be discussed by the whole country right now, on every TV station? What is forcing the politicians to talk about these issues? Making policies change in front of our eyes? Direct action. So my belief in the power of direct action (and that can mean non-violent direct action such as the ones I mentioned before, general strikes, marches, sit-ins, massive sustained protests, and yes when the people have gone unheard for far too long, a riot) as the single most effective mechanism to bring about change has been greatly solidified. I'm not saying don't vote, by all means vote. But half the country already doesn't and disenfranchised people might just be beginning to realize that yes we do have all the power in our hands to turn this thing upside down if society stops working for the people.

[2010]

I'm up here and so far myt block is quiet. Must be around shopping centers, Fordham got got hit alittle but for the most part not many, and importantly nor burned.

But again this looting is not about our consciousness rising, but just meaninglessness. Sometimes we have to handle ourselves and not let young brothers miss the point by not talking to them directly.

My only wish is that a dude like Lebron buy a $5,000,000 slot on ESPN and tell the young to chill.
Take out a fkn commerical with a bunch of Athletes, reminding the young how to act under these circumstances and how important it is.

Step up. Where the stars @?

This woman eloquently expressed the feelings of many of the people that you’re talking down to. I urge you to listen, as I urged folks to pay attention to the message Kaepernick was trying to convey. I’m also saying that the sanitation of MLK and the civil rights movement have dulled folk’s revolutionary spirit and it’s purposeful. The cops weren’t arrested because of peaceful protest.

Read on Twitter

Tell that to the local pharmacist who spent 30 years at your location in your neighborhood why he loses his life's work because "the man" broke the contract. Tell that to the cancer patient down the block who may now die because that pharmacy has no meds to give them.

Casualties. There will always be some. But stop focusing on the effect instead of the cause.

[2010]

Which of you are up in the Bronx now?

I just watched reports on how local people are thieving hard in areas of the Bronx. I'm not singling out the Bronx. It is merely what I just watched and it isn't pretty. Not just hardened criminal types, but local people joining in on the mayhem, wiping out every kind of store.

Not like I haven't seen this before, but it is important to also not lose sight of the truth that these looters are destroying their local shopkeepers lives and hurting their neighborhood. People can't get their heart and cancer medication, because these pieces of chit destroyed their local pharmacy and stole it all.

That's not protest. As long as that goes on Trump and the cops will point to the looting for justification of what they do even when they're bashing innocent protestors.

Looters could still get Trump re-elected.

And if this keeps up it will lead to more dead civilians

I get all the implicit and explicit racism in how people react to the rioting that goes on around the protests. I get the anger behind the rioting, but also understand some is just opportunism\outsiders.

I just want to point out, as someone who knows a LOT of conservatives (starting to feel like TOO many), that even the smallest amount of rioting almost immediately puts them firmly back into their "law and order" ways (yes, I know the racial subtext that most of that represents). The more there is, the firmer they go there.

The hardened types? Biden wasn't getting their vote anyway, so who cares. Other than maybe some that would've sat this election out will vote. But I'm concerned about squishy suburban conservative independents, the kind that can swing the election.

I get the points that some violence of action works. I think people just need to be clear how it plays with votes who will probably decide the election. And if that calculation works for people, I could see that, though if you think sh*t is bad right now, wait until you get 4 more years of Trump, but unleashed. With Bill Barr with a mandate to turn American into his vision. Which is white, highly conservative, highly religiously conservative, STRONG "law and order". And all that all those imply.

It absolutely does play into the hands of the opposition.

Nobody can convince me that 400 years of suffering justifies looting at a time when that may lead to consolidation of autocratic rule that will PERMANENTLY incarcerate every one of us in a police state for the rest of our lives.

That is EXACTLY what the extreme rightists hope for. More looting.

Your founding fathers looted, vandalized, and rioted. Or did you think America was granted its independence by holding hands and singing Cum Ba Ya?

[2010]

To all my true brothers of all races who respect the values of equality and justice. Turn your ears off to those who discount the effectiveness of violent protest, vandalism, and looting.

There is no revolution without the aforementioned 3 elements. Study history.

The American Revolution does not happen without them.

The Black Civil Rights Movement does not happen without them.

To reject those elements is to reject freedom and embrace tyranny.

Peaceful protest is only respected when there is the threat of violent protest, vandalism, and looting to back it up. Or else the peaceful protest will fall on deaf ears. Or be unacknowledged. The results garnered will be the same as Kap's four years ago.

To anyone rebuking property damage and prioritizing that over all. Remember, violent protest is nothing more than an act of defense. Vandalism and property damage is a call for attention. And looting is nothing but a dirty word for appropriation. That is the reality.

If you have such disdain for the three elements, if you are a minority, then hand over what little civil rights you have right now. Cuz that's exactly how you got them. By the ones who came before you being willing to risk their lives and die, to defensively protest, vandalize and loot for equality.

If you are white, then tear up the constitution cuz your founding fathers did the same to gain their independence from England. What elements do you think the Boston Tea Party epitomized?

If you are Asian/Hispanic/Indian, and you feel a way cuz your small business may have been compromised. Well remember, the only reason you are able to have that small business is due to the exploits of others. Your ancestors were only able to come here due to the Immigration Act, as a result of the prior exploits of others.

If you are unable to acknowledge these things, or don't understand American History, then you are not qualified to voice your opinion with any validity on the matter.

[Clyde_Style]

This woman eloquently expressed the feelings of many of the people that you’re talking down to. I urge you to listen, as I urged folks to pay attention to the message Kaepernick was trying to convey. I’m also saying that the sanitation of MLK and the civil rights movement have dulled folk’s revolutionary spirit and it’s purposeful. The cops weren’t arrested because of peaceful protest.

Read on Twitter

Tell that to the local pharmacist who spent 30 years at your location in your neighborhood why he loses his life's work because "the man" broke the contract. Tell that to the cancer patient down the block who may now die because that pharmacy has no meds to give them.

Casualties. There will always be some. But stop focusing on the effect instead of the cause.

We will have to agree to disagree then, because five months before this election is exactly why we have to focus on effect, because if we don't we'll never again, EVER, get a chance to address the root causes systemically.

Please recognize there is very little time left before we lose every last chance to get America on the right track. We screw this up now and the only tracks we'll be on are train tracks to the exterminators.

This is not any election. As of now, it is the ONLY election left before the end of any form of legitimate democracy in America if we lose.

And for any person who feels oppressed who says they've been through hell already so what difference does it make I say: You just wait. You ain't seen nuthin' yet baby.

NeoLiberals were NOT Nazis. Nazis will round up political opposition and exterminate them. That's coming if you let it happen. All races will suffer.

Hitler did not have cameras on every corner. When you let fascists take over America now, the security state ensures you will never see freedom again.

So, no, my friend, I respectfully disagree. At this moment the causes do not legitimize the behavior of looting, because the effect will be the permanent death of every freedom you can imagine.

[2010]

Tell that to the local pharmacist who spent 30 years at your location in your neighborhood why he loses his life's work because "the man" broke the contract. Tell that to the cancer patient down the block who may now die because that pharmacy has no meds to give them.

Casualties. There will always be some. But stop focusing on the effect instead of the cause.

We will have to agree to disagree then, because five months before this election is exactly why we have to focus on effect, because if we don't we'll never again, EVER, get a chance to address the root causes systemically.

Please recognize there is very little time left before we lose every last chance to get America on the right track. We screw this up now and the only tracks we'll be on are train tracks to the exterminators.

This is not any election. As of now, it is the ONLY election left before the end of any form of legitimate democracy in America if we lose.

And for any person who feels oppressed who says they've been through hell already so what difference does it make I say: You just wait. You ain't seen nuthin' yet baby.

NeoLiberals were NOT Nazis. Nazis will round up political opposition and exterminate them. That's coming if you let it happen. All races will suffer.

Hitler did not have cameras on every corner. When you let fascists take over America now, the security state ensures you will never see freedom again.

So, no, my friend, I respectfully disagree. At this moment the causes do not legitimize the behavior of looting, because the effect will be the permanent death of every freedom you can imagine.

This is all fear based. So I will have to quote Patrick Henry. "Give me Liberty, or give me death."

Pacification is just not my thing. If that's where it's going, then be ready for the fight.

[Clyde_Style]

I get all the implicit and explicit racism in how people react to the rioting that goes on around the protests. I get the anger behind the rioting, but also understand some is just opportunism\outsiders.

I just want to point out, as someone who knows a LOT of conservatives (starting to feel like TOO many), that even the smallest amount of rioting almost immediately puts them firmly back into their "law and order" ways (yes, I know the racial subtext that most of that represents). The more there is, the firmer they go there.

The hardened types? Biden wasn't getting their vote anyway, so who cares. Other than maybe some that would've sat this election out will vote. But I'm concerned about squishy suburban conservative independents, the kind that can swing the election.

I get the points that some violence of action works. I think people just need to be clear how it plays with votes who will probably decide the election. And if that calculation works for people, I could see that, though if you think sh*t is bad right now, wait until you get 4 more years of Trump, but unleashed. With Bill Barr with a mandate to turn American into his vision. Which is white, highly conservative, highly religiously conservative, STRONG "law and order". And all that all those imply.

It absolutely does play into the hands of the opposition.

Nobody can convince me that 400 years of suffering justifies looting at a time when that may lead to consolidation of autocratic rule that will PERMANENTLY incarcerate every one of us in a police state for the rest of our lives.

That is EXACTLY what the extreme rightists hope for. More looting.

Your founding fathers looted, vandalized, and rioted. Or did you think America was granted it's independence by holding hands and singing Cum Ba Ya?

We're entering an era of hyper-surveillance technological slavery if you keep up this outdated rap. History repeats itself until the evolving tools of oppression mitigate the ability of past actions to achieve past results.

Sorry, you're engaging in nostalgia and this is not the time to play ineffectual revolutionary.

Dr. King struggled to hold the line and we're facing that now too. Even Malcolm was diverging from Elijah Muhammad when the brotherhood took him out.

Massive peaceful protest is the only path to victory this November.

You advocate destruction, you'll lose everything.

[Capn'O]

Watch on YouTube

Trevor Noah captured it well. When one side (government) of the social contract is breached you have to breach the other side (citizen compliance) to patch it back to meet somewhere. Why honor it?

[Clyde_Style]

Casualties. There will always be some. But stop focusing on the effect instead of the cause.

We will have to agree to disagree then, because five months before this election is exactly why we have to focus on effect, because if we don't we'll never again, EVER, get a chance to address the root causes systemically.

Please recognize there is very little time left before we lose every last chance to get America on the right track. We screw this up now and the only tracks we'll be on are train tracks to the exterminators.

This is not any election. As of now, it is the ONLY election left before the end of any form of legitimate democracy in America if we lose.

And for any person who feels oppressed who says they've been through hell already so what difference does it make I say: You just wait. You ain't seen nuthin' yet baby.

NeoLiberals were NOT Nazis. Nazis will round up political opposition and exterminate them. That's coming if you let it happen. All races will suffer.

Hitler did not have cameras on every corner. When you let fascists take over America now, the security state ensures you will never see freedom again.

So, no, my friend, I respectfully disagree. At this moment the causes do not legitimize the behavior of looting, because the effect will be the permanent death of every freedom you can imagine.

This is all fear based. So I will have to quote Patrick Henry. "Give me Liberty, or give me death."

Pacification is just not my thing. If that's where it's going, then be ready for the fight.

You're glorifying violence

We still have a path to overthrow using the only thing that will matter in the end which is the vote.

You lose the right to vote, then you condemn yourself to a lifetime of guerilla warfare. Good luck with that

[2010]

It absolutely does play into the hands of the opposition.

Nobody can convince me that 400 years of suffering justifies looting at a time when that may lead to consolidation of autocratic rule that will PERMANENTLY incarcerate every one of us in a police state for the rest of our lives.

That is EXACTLY what the extreme rightists hope for. More looting.

Your founding fathers looted, vandalized, and rioted. Or did you think America was granted it's independence by holding hands and singing Cum Ba Ya?

We're entering an era of hyper-surveillance technological slavery if you keep up this outdated rap. History repeats itself until the evolving tools of oppression mitigate the ability of past actions to achieve past results.

Sorry, you're engaging in nostalgia and this is not the time to play ineffectual revolutionary.

Dr. King struggled to hold the line and we're facing that now too. Even Malcolm was diverging from Elijah Muhammad when the brotherhood took him out.

Massive peaceful protest is the only path to victory this November.

You advocate destruction, you'll lose everything.

"Give me Liberty, or give me death."
- Patrick Henry

[2010]

We will have to agree to disagree then, because five months before this election is exactly why we have to focus on effect, because if we don't we'll never again, EVER, get a chance to address the root causes systemically.

Please recognize there is very little time left before we lose every last chance to get America on the right track. We screw this up now and the only tracks we'll be on are train tracks to the exterminators.

This is not any election. As of now, it is the ONLY election left before the end of any form of legitimate democracy in America if we lose.

And for any person who feels oppressed who says they've been through hell already so what difference does it make I say: You just wait. You ain't seen nuthin' yet baby.

NeoLiberals were NOT Nazis. Nazis will round up political opposition and exterminate them. That's coming if you let it happen. All races will suffer.

Hitler did not have cameras on every corner. When you let fascists take over America now, the security state ensures you will never see freedom again.

So, no, my friend, I respectfully disagree. At this moment the causes do not legitimize the behavior of looting, because the effect will be the permanent death of every freedom you can imagine.

This is all fear based. So I will have to quote Patrick Henry. "Give me Liberty, or give me death."

Pacification is just not my thing. If that's where it's going, then be ready for the fight.

You're glorifying violence

Nah, I'm glorifying freedom and equality. I'm glorifying what should be a birthright.

We still have a path to overthrow using the only thing that will matter in the end which is the vote.

"The ballot or the bullet."
- Malcolm X

You lose the right to vote, then you condemn yourself to a lifetime of guerilla warfare. Good luck with that

Vietnam says hello.

[Clyde_Style]

This is all fear based. So I will have to quote Patrick Henry. "Give me Liberty, or give me death."

Pacification is just not my thing. If that's where it's going, then be ready for the fight.

You're glorifying violence

Nah, I'm glorifying freedom and equality. I'm glorifying what should be a birthright.

We still have a path to overthrow using the only thing that will matter in the end which is the vote.

"The ballot or the bullet.'
- Malcolm X

You lose the right to vote, then you condemn yourself to a lifetime of guerilla warfare. Good luck with that

Vietnam says hello.

You're telling others to shut up because they don't know history as well as you do, but then you go and imply Vietnam is a democracy. What?

Vietnam is run under a one party system. You're free to be a capitalist there if that is what you mean by freedom, but if you criticize the government there you go straight to jail.

[2010]

You're glorifying violence

Nah, I'm glorifying freedom and equality. I'm glorifying what should be a birthright.

We still have a path to overthrow using the only thing that will matter in the end which is the vote.

"The ballot or the bullet.'
- Malcolm X

You lose the right to vote, then you condemn yourself to a lifetime of guerilla warfare. Good luck with that

Vietnam says hello.

You're telling others to shut up because they don't know history as well as you do, but then you go and imply Vietnam is a democracy. What?

Vietnam is run under a one party system. You're free to be a capitalist there if that is what you mean by freedom, but if you criticize the government there you go straight to jail.

No. I was implying how guerilla warfare yielded victorious results in battle ultimately. While America returned home with it's tail-tucked and attempted to rewrite the outcome of that history. Vietnam's political & monetary system was not my focus. The impact of tactics was.

[Clyde_Style]

Nah, I'm glorifying freedom and equality. I'm glorifying what should be a birthright.



"The ballot or the bullet.'
- Malcolm X



Vietnam says hello.

You're telling others to shut up because they don't know history as well as you do, but then you go and imply Vietnam is a democracy. What?

Vietnam is run under a one party system. You're free to be a capitalist there if that is what you mean by freedom, but if you criticize the government there you go straight to jail.

No. I was implying how guerilla warfare yielded victorious results in battle ultimately. While America returned home with it's tail-tucked and attempted to rewrite the outcome of that history. Vietnam's political & monetary system was not my focus. The impact of tactics was.

And if that is your point, then we are not at that stage yet. I fully understand why it may feel like we're at that stage, but we're not.

We are not at the stage where there is no government left and we're digging networks of holes in the ground to fight the terminators and skynet.

We're at the stage where we could go there someday if we let democracy die. And right now, it will die if Trump and the GOP get re-elected. And they can hold on to power by justifying their continued use of force due to civilians burning down neighborhoods. That's their playbook and they're going to use it to scare every voter into their lane.

I'm not speaking from a place of fear. I'm talking about how fear will be used against all of us. They win, it's over for us. We'll never see freedom again.

The time to engage in guerilla warfare can be around the corner if they get re-elected. But a modernized police state will be harder to fight with ditches and molotov cocktails. It will be efficient and merciless.

You may be itching to fight, but you really don't want that if you look at the actual results you'll get. There will be nothing but unending misery and nothing to romanticize about violent resistance once that becomes the only avenue of expression left. You only go down that path until you exhaust the path of democracy that still lays before us.

We have a voice to express and unity in peaceful mass demonstrations will be very effective and very hard to suppress with force. You need to encourage that now. Leave the violent rhetoric for when actual avenues of change have been exhausted.