2020 NBA Draft II

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1121 » by King Ken » Sun Jun 7, 2020 3:48 pm

getrichordie wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Cole Anthony is Shane Larkin with a mixtape. Dennis Smith came in with better measurables across the board and similar IQ and court approach.. and cant get out of the starters gate. As did Austin Rivers who is far quicker with a better handle


Nah, dude. Dennis Smith was all athleticism. No IQ. Anthony's BBIQ is much higher.

Smith had some skill but he didn't fit today's NBA stylistically nor did he have enough BBIQ like who he was compared to in Steve Francis. He was always more of a boom or bust prospect. He just happen to bust.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1122 » by getrichordie » Sun Jun 7, 2020 4:35 pm

King Ken wrote:...


What's your strongest case for Jalen Smith? I have him in the 40s on my BB. I just can't talk myself into putting him any higher.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1123 » by getrichordie » Sun Jun 7, 2020 8:21 pm

Really good insight from Dinwiddie. I tend to agree that confidence and green light are major swing factors.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1124 » by getrichordie » Sun Jun 7, 2020 8:31 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1125 » by getrichordie » Sun Jun 7, 2020 11:20 pm

getrichordie wrote:
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3.6 - 4.0

Bolmaro
Haliburton
Reed
Dotson

3.1 - 3.5

Pokusevski
Queen
Flynn
Hinton
Hagans
Butler
Hayes

2.6 - 3.0

Mathews
Diane
Mike
Elleby
Alexander
Riller
Lewis Jr.
Fitts
Green

2.1 - 2.5

Mays
Jones (Tre)
Bey (Tyler)
Ball
Williams (Patrick)
Vassell
Savage
Thompson
Jones (Mason)
Bane
Powell
Lee
Ramsey
Ayayi
Smith (Chris)
Pritchard
Okongwu
Hughes
Days
Mannion
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1126 » by King Ken » Mon Jun 8, 2020 12:12 am

getrichordie wrote:
King Ken wrote:...


What's your strongest case for Jalen Smith? I have him in the 40s on my BB. I just can't talk myself into putting him any higher.

Like most recent Maryland guys, he's pro ready skills wise. He's just not pro ready in most other areas. He will need at least two G league years but he should be a decent role player in the near future
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1127 » by King Ken » Mon Jun 8, 2020 12:12 am

getrichordie wrote:
King Ken wrote:...


What's your strongest case for Jalen Smith? I have him in the 40s on my BB. I just can't talk myself into putting him any higher.

Like most recent Maryland guys, he's pro ready skills wise. He's just not pro ready in most other areas. He will need at least two G league years but he should be a decent role player in the near future
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1128 » by getrichordie » Mon Jun 8, 2020 12:17 am

Edit: I think I **** up the link. Here ya go:

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1129 » by Roddy B for 3 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 12:50 am

King Ken wrote:
getrichordie wrote:We need to talk more about Anthony Edwards.

SF Chronicle is reporting that sources are saying if Warriors land #1 pick, they are taking Edwards, but if they fall in 2-5 range, they are taking Haliburton.

The teams who spent the most time looking at all of the prospects like Edwards #1. Teams that just looking at prototypes, like Wiseman who even with his questions should be good potentially and LaMelo is for a number of teams looking for that type of PG.

For me, he's tied for #1 with Toppin and Ball. I would take him #1 for most teams. He's an easy fit. Plug him in at 6th man and develop him from there. Don't overthink it. It's similar to Harden as a prospect. Not as polished but more potential and no that doesn't mean he will be as good or better than HOU Harden, just saying he has more potential than James had at this stage. James overachieved. I am sure those who take Edwards hopes the same. I think of Edwards a lot like John Wall as a prospect. Not the same prototypes but they have a lot of similarities and their talent and ability make it really hard for them to bust much less not be stars at the least.


They say draft season is lying season. First GSW liked LaMelo now, Edwards. Why would they add an eniffecwnt guard with poor shot selection to a team with Thompson, Wiggins, and Steph. Haliburton would be better if only to recreate the Livingston role.

But whatever, let's see what a "light years ahead organization" does.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1130 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 3:19 am

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
getrichordie wrote:We need to talk more about Anthony Edwards.

SF Chronicle is reporting that sources are saying if Warriors land #1 pick, they are taking Edwards, but if they fall in 2-5 range, they are taking Haliburton.

The teams who spent the most time looking at all of the prospects like Edwards #1. Teams that just looking at prototypes, like Wiseman who even with his questions should be good potentially and LaMelo is for a number of teams looking for that type of PG.

For me, he's tied for #1 with Toppin and Ball. I would take him #1 for most teams. He's an easy fit. Plug him in at 6th man and develop him from there. Don't overthink it. It's similar to Harden as a prospect. Not as polished but more potential and no that doesn't mean he will be as good or better than HOU Harden, just saying he has more potential than James had at this stage. James overachieved. I am sure those who take Edwards hopes the same. I think of Edwards a lot like John Wall as a prospect. Not the same prototypes but they have a lot of similarities and their talent and ability make it really hard for them to bust much less not be stars at the least.


They say draft season is lying season. First GSW liked LaMelo now, Edwards. Why would they add an eniffecwnt guard with poor shot selection to a team with Thompson, Wiggins, and Steph. Haliburton would be better if only to recreate the Livingston role.

But whatever, let's see what a "light years ahead organization" does.


If GS is smart, they're doing their best to try and fight out what player has the best trade value out of the group. No one in the top of this class fits with this team skill wise, also none of them come close to guys that will be impactful day 1. GS should be in a win now mode and try and get 1 more ring with the Curry/Klay/Draymond core. No one in this draft helps that.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1131 » by King Ken » Tue Jun 9, 2020 3:26 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
The teams who spent the most time looking at all of the prospects like Edwards #1. Teams that just looking at prototypes, like Wiseman who even with his questions should be good potentially and LaMelo is for a number of teams looking for that type of PG.

For me, he's tied for #1 with Toppin and Ball. I would take him #1 for most teams. He's an easy fit. Plug him in at 6th man and develop him from there. Don't overthink it. It's similar to Harden as a prospect. Not as polished but more potential and no that doesn't mean he will be as good or better than HOU Harden, just saying he has more potential than James had at this stage. James overachieved. I am sure those who take Edwards hopes the same. I think of Edwards a lot like John Wall as a prospect. Not the same prototypes but they have a lot of similarities and their talent and ability make it really hard for them to bust much less not be stars at the least.


They say draft season is lying season. First GSW liked LaMelo now, Edwards. Why would they add an eniffecwnt guard with poor shot selection to a team with Thompson, Wiggins, and Steph. Haliburton would be better if only to recreate the Livingston role.

But whatever, let's see what a "light years ahead organization" does.


If GS is smart, they're doing their best to try and fight out what player has the best trade value out of the group. No one in the top of this class fits with this team skill wise, also none of them come close to guys that will be impactful day 1. GS should be in a win now mode and try and get 1 more ring with the Curry/Klay/Draymond core. No one in this draft helps that.

Easier said than done.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1132 » by clyde21 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 3:50 am

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
getrichordie wrote:We need to talk more about Anthony Edwards.

SF Chronicle is reporting that sources are saying if Warriors land #1 pick, they are taking Edwards, but if they fall in 2-5 range, they are taking Haliburton.

The teams who spent the most time looking at all of the prospects like Edwards #1. Teams that just looking at prototypes, like Wiseman who even with his questions should be good potentially and LaMelo is for a number of teams looking for that type of PG.

For me, he's tied for #1 with Toppin and Ball. I would take him #1 for most teams. He's an easy fit. Plug him in at 6th man and develop him from there. Don't overthink it. It's similar to Harden as a prospect. Not as polished but more potential and no that doesn't mean he will be as good or better than HOU Harden, just saying he has more potential than James had at this stage. James overachieved. I am sure those who take Edwards hopes the same. I think of Edwards a lot like John Wall as a prospect. Not the same prototypes but they have a lot of similarities and their talent and ability make it really hard for them to bust much less not be stars at the least.


They say draft season is lying season. First GSW liked LaMelo now, Edwards. Why would they add an eniffecwnt guard with poor shot selection to a team with Thompson, Wiggins, and Steph. Haliburton would be better if only to recreate the Livingston role.

But whatever, let's see what a "light years ahead organization" does.


i really don't have any faith in Myers tbh, anything is on the table for him, the smart thing to do is to pimp Antman, LaMelo, Wiseman as much as possible to try and trade down, and then pick up someone like Haliburton or Okoro while getting an extra asset

but i don't really trust him with the draft at all
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1133 » by clyde21 » Tue Jun 9, 2020 3:52 am

King Ken wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
They say draft season is lying season. First GSW liked LaMelo now, Edwards. Why would they add an eniffecwnt guard with poor shot selection to a team with Thompson, Wiggins, and Steph. Haliburton would be better if only to recreate the Livingston role.

But whatever, let's see what a "light years ahead organization" does.


If GS is smart, they're doing their best to try and fight out what player has the best trade value out of the group. No one in the top of this class fits with this team skill wise, also none of them come close to guys that will be impactful day 1. GS should be in a win now mode and try and get 1 more ring with the Curry/Klay/Draymond core. No one in this draft helps that.

Easier said than done.


it's pretty easy top trade down

i mean, we don't HAVE to take top dollar to trade down, it's pretty obvious a Zion isn't on the board here.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1134 » by getrichordie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:36 am

I really can't see how some people are so high on Bane unless it is as an end of the bench emergency combo-G/floor-spacer who you can count on being in the right position defensively. Some have him in the top 25 on their big board which is INSANE.

Yes, he can shoot. He has good defensive positioning OFF-BALL. On-ball, he is a liability. He just lacks the length and athleticism and I don't think his IQ makes up for that big of a gap.

Offensively, besides the shooting, the passing is there, but he lacks any real burst and cutting ability to get into paint consistently. Watching Bane turn into a drive is like watching an 18-wheeler try and make a turn. See this @3:30 in video below (see spoiler). Overall, he's kind of a stiff athlete. Not much fluidity. He's definitely not capable of guarding most NBA-level 2s on-ball, IMO.



Overall, if I'm looking for a reliable emergency ball-handler/floor-spacer in the late 2nd round, Bane is probably my guy. I can't see him going any higher than 48-ish.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1135 » by Stillwater » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:48 pm

King Ken wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
King Ken wrote:...


What's your strongest case for Jalen Smith? I have him in the 40s on my BB. I just can't talk myself into putting him any higher.

Like most recent Maryland guys, he's pro ready skills wise. He's just not pro ready in most other areas. He will need at least two G league years but he should be a decent role player in the near future

I am not buying he needs any G league , just needs coached up defensively outside the paint. His anticipation is pretty weak so it's understandable to say develop him in the G league, but I think a rim runner like that with his developed shooting already gets freedom to develop as a 3rd big on a rebuilding roster with a fighters chance to earn rotation minutes from day 1.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1136 » by getrichordie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:54 pm

When comparing Terry to Young & Curry, a pattern emerges: Steph > Young > Terry. That might seem obvious, and it should be. But that ranking also applies to size, 2P%, and pull-up shooting (where Terry's 3s are mostly C&S), and 3-point attempt rate. Terry also isn't anywhere near the passer that Young or Steph is, with Young being the most superior here.

curry = 6'3 / 185
young = 6'2 / 180
terry = 6'1 / 160
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1137 » by RiotPunch » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:01 pm

getrichordie wrote:I really can't see how some people are so high on Bane unless it is as an end of the bench emergency combo-G/floor-spacer who you can count on being in the right position defensively. Some have him in the top 25 on their big board which is INSANE.

Yes, he can shoot. He has good defensive positioning OFF-BALL. On-ball, he is a liability. He just lacks the length and athleticism and I don't think his IQ makes up for that big of a gap.

Offensively, besides the shooting, the passing is there, but he lacks any real burst and cutting ability to get into paint consistently. Watching Bane turn into a drive is like watching an 18-wheeler try and make a turn. See this @3:30 in video below (see spoiler). Overall, he's kind of a stiff athlete. Not much fluidity. He's definitely not capable of guarding most NBA-level 2s on-ball, IMO.



Overall, if I'm looking for a reliable emergency ball-handler/floor-spacer in the late 2nd round, Bane is probably my guy. I can't see him going any higher than 48-ish.

Probably no convincing you at this point, but I think you are focusing way too much on the negatives with Bane.

Removing the length/finishing/lateral quickness issues (and those are legitimate), you have:

-Arguably the best overall shooter in the class, considering shot versatility profile. Elite movement shooter, great pull-up, great C&S, etc.
-A more than capable ancillary playmaker out of PnR, a very decisive passer.
-A highly intelligent and communicative team defender, one of the best off-ball defenders in this class. Pristine rotations, switchability, disruptive in passing lanes.
-A player with impeccable footwork.
-A 22 year old, 6'5" wing with a rumored standing reach of 8'4" and a 41" max vertical, with an NBA-ready body.

It's a copycat league, and teams are going to try to replicate the Bucks' drop coverage which encourages funneling players from the perimeter to the paint, where they meet your rim-protector. Just an example, but this mitigates the importance of on-ball defense, and amplifies the importance of team defense, where Bane flourishes.

Drafting that guy Top-25 is not insane at all, IMO. Having a 36 spot difference in ranking between Nesmith and Bane sounds more insane to me than that.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1138 » by getrichordie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:20 pm

RiotPunch wrote:
getrichordie wrote:I really can't see how some people are so high on Bane unless it is as an end of the bench emergency combo-G/floor-spacer who you can count on being in the right position defensively. Some have him in the top 25 on their big board which is INSANE.

Yes, he can shoot. He has good defensive positioning OFF-BALL. On-ball, he is a liability. He just lacks the length and athleticism and I don't think his IQ makes up for that big of a gap.

Offensively, besides the shooting, the passing is there, but he lacks any real burst and cutting ability to get into paint consistently. Watching Bane turn into a drive is like watching an 18-wheeler try and make a turn. See this @3:30 in video below (see spoiler). Overall, he's kind of a stiff athlete. Not much fluidity. He's definitely not capable of guarding most NBA-level 2s on-ball, IMO.



Overall, if I'm looking for a reliable emergency ball-handler/floor-spacer in the late 2nd round, Bane is probably my guy. I can't see him going any higher than 48-ish.

Probably no convincing you at this point, but I think you are focusing way too much on the negatives with Bane.

Removing the length/finishing/lateral quickness issues (and those are legitimate), you have:

-Arguably the best overall shooter in the class, considering shot versatility profile. Elite movement shooter, great pull-up, great C&S, etc.
-A more than capable ancillary playmaker out of PnR, a very decisive passer.
-A highly intelligent and communicative team defender, one of the best off-ball defenders in this class. Pristine rotations, switchability, disruptive in passing lanes.
-A player with impeccable footwork.
-A 22 year old, 6'5" wing with a rumored standing reach of 8'4" and a 41" max vertical, with an NBA-ready body.

It's a copycat league, and teams are going to try to replicate the Bucks' drop coverage which encourages funneling players from the perimeter to the paint, where they meet your rim-protector. Just an example, but this mitigates the importance of on-ball defense, and amplifies the importance of team defense, where Bane flourishes.

Drafting that guy Top-25 is not insane at all, IMO. Having a 36 spot difference in ranking between Nesmith and Bane sounds more insane to me than that.


Am I supposed to be impressed by a 8’4 standing reach?

It’s one thing to succeed in certain areas in college and another thing in the NBA.

Bane’s passing out of P&R is entirely dependent on his threat as a driver. In the NBA, he won’t be a threat because his change of direction is way too bad.

I understand what drop coverage is, but I don’t think you understand Bane’s physical limitations. He gets away with having short arms at the college level, but if you think that is going to work at the NBA level, you are going to be surprised when players are scoring over the top of him with ease and he’s a non-factor in the land of giants.

If he was as good as you say he is, he would have already been drafted, yet here we are with Bane as a 4-year college guy.

Furthermore, I don't think he's the best overall shooter in this draft. I don't know that I would put him top 5.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1139 » by RiotPunch » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:34 pm

getrichordie wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:
getrichordie wrote:I really can't see how some people are so high on Bane unless it is as an end of the bench emergency combo-G/floor-spacer who you can count on being in the right position defensively. Some have him in the top 25 on their big board which is INSANE.

Yes, he can shoot. He has good defensive positioning OFF-BALL. On-ball, he is a liability. He just lacks the length and athleticism and I don't think his IQ makes up for that big of a gap.

Offensively, besides the shooting, the passing is there, but he lacks any real burst and cutting ability to get into paint consistently. Watching Bane turn into a drive is like watching an 18-wheeler try and make a turn. See this @3:30 in video below (see spoiler). Overall, he's kind of a stiff athlete. Not much fluidity. He's definitely not capable of guarding most NBA-level 2s on-ball, IMO.



Overall, if I'm looking for a reliable emergency ball-handler/floor-spacer in the late 2nd round, Bane is probably my guy. I can't see him going any higher than 48-ish.

Probably no convincing you at this point, but I think you are focusing way too much on the negatives with Bane.

Removing the length/finishing/lateral quickness issues (and those are legitimate), you have:

-Arguably the best overall shooter in the class, considering shot versatility profile. Elite movement shooter, great pull-up, great C&S, etc.
-A more than capable ancillary playmaker out of PnR, a very decisive passer.
-A highly intelligent and communicative team defender, one of the best off-ball defenders in this class. Pristine rotations, switchability, disruptive in passing lanes.
-A player with impeccable footwork.
-A 22 year old, 6'5" wing with a rumored standing reach of 8'4" and a 41" max vertical, with an NBA-ready body.

It's a copycat league, and teams are going to try to replicate the Bucks' drop coverage which encourages funneling players from the perimeter to the paint, where they meet your rim-protector. Just an example, but this mitigates the importance of on-ball defense, and amplifies the importance of team defense, where Bane flourishes.

Drafting that guy Top-25 is not insane at all, IMO. Having a 36 spot difference in ranking between Nesmith and Bane sounds more insane to me than that.


Am I supposed to be impressed by a 8’4 standing reach?

It’s one thing to succeed in certain areas in college and another thing in the NBA.

Bane’s passing out of P&R is entirely dependent on his threat as a driver. In the NBA, he won’t be a threat because his change of direction is way too bad.

I understand what drop coverage is, but I don’t think you understand Bane’s physical limitations. He gets away with having short arms at the college level, but if you think that is going to work at the NBA level, you are going to be surprised when players are scoring over the top of him with ease and he’s a non-factor in the land of giants.

If he was as good as you say he is, he would have already been drafted, yet here we are with Bane as a 4-year college guy.

It helps ease the blow of his 6' 4.25" wingspan. He has basically identical length measurables to Svi Mykhailiuk while being stronger and more athletic than Svi. A couple of other guys with 8'4" S/R include Dillon Brooks and Joe Harris.

It is not entirely based on his threat as a driver, he has the threat of a pull-up which will allow him to manipulate defenders and create passing lanes.

I don't think his athletic shortcomings are as damning as you make them out to be. He actually has impressive vertical pop, he is just limited laterally, and his standing reach is sufficient for him to survive in the land of the giants, IMO.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft II 

Post#1140 » by getrichordie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:42 pm

I'm considering creating some kind of points system for evaluating prospects. The point system would probably vary depending on either archetype or projected position in NBA and would include both metrics, physical measurements, and eye test stuff such as first step, elite-level speed, etc.

The thought is that some metrics are better served for evaluating different positions. I would find a threshold within those metrics and start from there. For example, 36% on 3PA would be a threshold and players shooting above 38% would receive an additional point. Shooting above 40% would also receive an additional point. I'd probably work in half-points for players who don't shoot many 3s.

The universal categories would be:

ft% (relative to proj. position)
tov%
physical measurements (relative to proj. position)
lateral quickness
touch
ball-handling
ast% per usg% (relative to proj. position)
3p%
rim %
2p%
mid%
dreb% (relative to proj. position)
ast:to
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