Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle

[moocow007]

Randle is not a fit, but he’s not trash.
Batum will be lucky to get another vet min deal (while being paid $27 mill), he’s washed, he literally moves slower than Melo on the court.
Hopefully Perry won’t be as defeatist to accept trash in return.

Randle really going to be THjr 2.0? ‘Trash’ here, gets ‘dumped’ for nothing, but instantly becomes a decent 3rd option for a playoff team as soon as he is out of a Knicks jersey.

Yep. This is where the grass is greener, the other teams big contract is better rears is ugly head again. This is actually a perfect example cause folks haven't seen how absolutely brutal Batum has been and still fantasizing about the Batum from his prime. At least Randle does something on the floor. Batum doesn't contribute much of anything, not even on the defensive end where he's an even bigger net negative than Randle. The only thing this does is get the Knicks less salary cap space for next offseason (Batum will be owed $7 million more than Randle) by offsetting that the following offseason when Batum will be a UFA while Randle would need to be paid $4 million to get out of his contract a year early.

The trade wouldn't be about Batum. It's more about clearing out Randle so we can put better fitting pieces around RJ and Mitch while clearing salary for the following season. Maybe we even get a 2nd rounder or something to sweeten the deal.

Grass wouldn't be greener. But Randle is like having an inflatable santa clogging the lawn in July. He just doesn't fit here. We desperately need better spacing and more shooting. Not that Randle is the lone reason the Knicks are bad, but it's just a step in trying to put a cohesive team together to help the young players.

Batum would give the Knicks neither (better spacing or better shooting) and would be a pure dead weight contract making $27 million. So if the plan is to just sit Batum and not let him on the floor, why not just do it with Randle? Are we protecting Miller or whomever the next Knick head coach from hmself? Don't you think that a guy like Miller would stop Randle from doing "his own thing" if he actually thought the Knicks had a better option? I'm not seeing why Knick fans need to always be looking for that one guy to blame things on. The Knicks offense was among the least efficient not just because of Randle or even mostly Randle. They had no one that can create shots whatsoever. That is the reason why their offense stunk...not because Randle being the best offensive player (such as it was) trying (being forced to) doing what he isn't suited for.

[mpharris36]

they also struggled to put up every point because they had the worst shooting starting lineup in the NBA. If teams don't respect your shooting you have a clogged paint and no spacing.

Randle and Payton were direct causes of that spacing issue. Replace both with at least the threat of shooting and RJ especially will have much more success driving the the basket creating offense for himself and possibly others.

Randle isn't a PG...and honestly Payton wasn't really one either. You need a capable shot creator in order to create better spacing. Even if the Knicks had the best 3 point shooter in the NBA they'd still have problems getting that shooter good looks at the basket. Randle by no means is a keeper but he's basically getting blamed for the Knicks offensive inefficiencies as if they had much in the way of alternatives to force feed on offense which is basically what they were doing with him cause they simply could not execute an offense. The notion that Mike Miller somehow didn't allow and enable Randle to dominate the ball is farfetched IMO. IMO Miller clearly game planned around Randle doing most of the heavy lifting simply because he had no one else that could do anything on offnese.

For as much as I dislike payton. He is a decent shot creator for his teammates. He just has limitations because no one respects his shooting. Add in Randle (no one respects his shooting). Then add in Mitch who plays a big role for us and doesn't shoot but is so vital for our defense and his rim running he needs to play.

Then add in RJ who struggles with his shooting but was our #3 pick so we have to invest in him.

I know im being overly simplistic but if you just switched Randle with a Bertans we are a much better flowing offense because there has to be a guy covering Bertans at all times. Yes Randle has more ISO ability with the ability to get his own shot but is it really worth it when he doesn't really help the players around him? And you don't need to be a PG to help the other players around them.

Someone like Bertans doesn't even need the ball to help his teammates...the threat of him scoring from anywhere helps his teammates.

[knickstape21]

Some people are short sided here. Go back and watch 5 games in a row. 4 games nonsense, 1 game good (but we still lost).

Time to move on. You’ll never win with him in your starting lineup.

4 games of nonsense doing what? Trying to force the issue on offense? So again, who did the Knicks have that actually could create shots for himself and/or others? Frank Ntilikina? Elfrid Payton? Dennis Smith Jr? RJ Barrett? Bobby Portis? Mitch Robinson? Reggie Bullock? Taj Gibson? Kevin Knox? That's the alternatives. None of those guys could consistent create any shots and not a single one of them are known for being able to get other players better shots. And that logic would apply to pretty much every player on this roster. The Knicks had one of the least efficient offenses in the NBA cause they had no one that could create easy shots. They struggled to put every point they put up on the board cause they simply did not have any talent of the sort when it came to efficient offense. The reality is that Randle was the one single guy that could. Folks seem to be under the notion that Randle is the reason that the Knicks offense was inefficient when it was the Knicks team that forced Randle to be in the situation where he had to do what he did. If not, then tell me who they should have given the ball to when there was nothing going on offense? Randle isn't Lebron James to be not only trying to create for himself but others as well. If Randle isn't ideally anything more than a 4th option then pretty much every other player on this team shouldn't even be touching the ball when the Knicks are on offense.

This is the type of thinking that won’t get us anywhere.

Option 1, option 4, create own shot, blah blah blah. Does he make us a better TEAM?! No.

[KnicksGadfly]

People keep mentioning Randle as a possible great 3rd option.

The Pelicans had him as the 3rd option last year. AD, Jrue, Randle. Went nowhere. Even worse, if we want to actually maximize Randle, we actually need someone like AD...great defense, attracts attention, covers up mistakes, can spread the floor somewhat. Randle isn't gonna get better teammates here...seriously, who else fits Randle better than AD? It must only be a handful of guys in this league. He is basically a dead-end.

Finally, I wanna run an exercise through my head. List the all-stars in this league. Who would Randle actually fit with, and make better? We can already cross off Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook. After that, we're left with the guys who can play with anybody in this league...Durant, Kawhi, George, Steph, AD. But Randle isn't making them better. Rather, they're compensating for Randle.

We can do a similar exercise for the contenders in this league, and see if Randle fits them as a 3rd option.
Lakers - Lebron and AD...NOPE.
Bucks - Giannis and Khris ... NOPE.
Clippers - Kawhi and George ... NOPE.

Okay, let's spread this to some of the other playoff teams.
Celtics - NOPE.
Raptors - NOPE.
Nuggets - NOPE.
Sixers - NOPE.
Heat - NOPE.

Like I said, Randle has the talent of a role player, so he better start learning how to do role player things. Like defense. And shooting. Guys like Blake Griffin and Kevin Love already have a hard time winning with their defensive deficiencies...Randle isn't even close to them. The Knicks have made their intentions clear to add a star. We need to start developing guys who can play with stars.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Yep. This is where the grass is greener, the other teams big contract is better rears is ugly head again. This is actually a perfect example cause folks haven't seen how absolutely brutal Batum has been and still fantasizing about the Batum from his prime. At least Randle does something on the floor. Batum doesn't contribute much of anything, not even on the defensive end where he's an even bigger net negative than Randle. The only thing this does is get the Knicks less salary cap space for next offseason (Batum will be owed $7 million more than Randle) by offsetting that the following offseason when Batum will be a UFA while Randle would need to be paid $4 million to get out of his contract a year early.

The trade wouldn't be about Batum. It's more about clearing out Randle so we can put better fitting pieces around RJ and Mitch while clearing salary for the following season. Maybe we even get a 2nd rounder or something to sweeten the deal.

Grass wouldn't be greener. But Randle is like having an inflatable santa clogging the lawn in July. He just doesn't fit here. We desperately need better spacing and more shooting. Not that Randle is the lone reason the Knicks are bad, but it's just a step in trying to put a cohesive team together to help the young players.

Batum would give the Knicks neither (better spacing or better shooting) and would be a pure dead weight contract making $27 million. So if the plan is to just sit Batum and not let him on the floor, why not just do it with Randle? Are we protecting Miller or whomever the next Knick head coach from hmself? Don't you think that a guy like Miller would stop Randle from doing "his own thing" if he actually thought the Knicks had a better option? I'm not seeing why Knick fans need to always be looking for that one guy to blame things on. The Knicks offense was among the least efficient not just because of Randle or even mostly Randle. They had no one that can create shots whatsoever. That is the reason why their offense stunk...not because Randle being the best offensive player (such as it was) trying (being forced to) doing what he isn't suited for.

Saving $4mil cap space for the following year would be the #1 reason. I dont see many players worth signing long term so I would rather have the money the following year.

The other reason is just moving on and saving coaches from themselves. We have seen plenty of times before where high paid guys get force fed here and take over the offense to put up numbers. I am not sure if Randle would be happy in a smaller role when he will be looking for his next contract. If Randle is ok playing off the bench for 20mpg at backup C then maybe that could work. He just shouldn't be playing a big role on this team. He is a tough dude to fit and simply doesnt work well here.

[FutureKnicksGM]

they also struggled to put up every point because they had the worst shooting starting lineup in the NBA. If teams don't respect your shooting you have a clogged paint and no spacing.

Randle and Payton were direct causes of that spacing issue. Replace both with at least the threat of shooting and RJ especially will have much more success driving the the basket creating offense for himself and possibly others.

How could we play 4 non shooters, but only 2 are responsible for the spacing issues? Was Randle helped on his drives by having RJ & Taj space the floor? There all part of it.

I mean we went long stretches where the only floor spacer was Morris, a PF playing SF, which limited us even more in terms of mobility.

[god shammgod]

i think it has to do with agent relationships. randle is young and still playing for contracts in his prime. it would be looked down on to just outright bench him. batum will be 32 when next season starts and is just about out of the league. so yes, it's much easier to bench him without it being a problem. there's politics and all teams have to deal with it.

[KnicksGod]

For the record, Batum was also in the RealGM General Board Hall of Fame early on. As was Ricky Rubio.

[FutureKnicksGM]

People keep mentioning Randle as a possible great 3rd option.

The Pelicans had him as the 3rd option last year. AD, Jrue, Randle. Went nowhere. Even worse, if we want to actually maximize Randle, we actually need someone like AD...great defense, attracts attention, covers up mistakes, can spread the floor somewhat. Randle isn't gonna get better teammates here...seriously, who else fits Randle better than AD? It must only be a handful of guys in this league. He is basically a dead-end.

Finally, I wanna run an exercise through my head. List the all-stars in this league. Who would Randle actually fit with, and make better? We can already cross off Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook. After that, we're left with the guys who can play with anybody in this league...Durant, Kawhi, George, Steph, AD. But Randle isn't making them better. Rather, they're compensating for Randle.

We can do a similar exercise for the contenders in this league, and see if Randle fits them as a 3rd option.
Lakers - Lebron and AD...NOPE.
Bucks - Giannis and Khris ... NOPE.
Clippers - Kawhi and George ... NOPE.

Okay, let's spread this to some of the other playoff teams.
Celtics - NOPE.
Raptors - NOPE.
Nuggets - NOPE.
Sixers - NOPE.
Heat - NOPE.

Like I said, Randle has the talent of a role player, so he better start learning how to do role player things. Like defense. And shooting. Guys like Blake Griffin and Kevin Love already have a hard time winning with their defensive deficiencies...Randle isn't even close to them. The Knicks have made their intentions clear to add a star. We need to start developing guys who can play with stars.

Did you really miss AD trade demand to LA, and his ‘rest’ through the season? NO roster was trash besides 5 or 6 guys, Elfrid Payton started 40 + games for them.

[mpharris36]

they also struggled to put up every point because they had the worst shooting starting lineup in the NBA. If teams don't respect your shooting you have a clogged paint and no spacing.

Randle and Payton were direct causes of that spacing issue. Replace both with at least the threat of shooting and RJ especially will have much more success driving the the basket creating offense for himself and possibly others.

How could we play 4 non shooters, but only 2 are responsible for the spacing issues? Was Randle helped on his drives by having RJ & Taj space the floor? There all part of it.

I mean we went long stretches where the only floor spacer was Morris, a PF playing SF, which limited us even more in terms of mobility.

because RJ is our top pick and we need to build around his strength since he's part of the core

and Mitch is our best player who impacts the game the most on the defensive end.

They are important so they stick in the lineup. Payton and Randle are journeymen. They can go.

Its that simple. RJ matters and Randle doesn't.

RJ and Mitch = Core
Payton and Randle = doodoo butter

[-YogiBiz-]

Wiseman took and made more jumpers in college than Mitch did these last 2 years.

This is a lie. Wiseman took 3 jumpers in college, TOTAL. One came right in front of the free throw line, one came a foot off the left block, and he missed his only three attempt. Mitch took 24 this season. Albeit those 24 shots came in the same area as Wiseman's first two shots.

I am definitely buying into his shot. I’ve been watching him since he was in high school. In high school he was taking fade-away jumpers, step backs, etc. Mitch only took wide open jumpers in high school. That’s the difference.

Don't get me wrong, his form is smexy. It looks great with a consistently high release point. He just had some really nice highlights in HS/AAU, but his % on jumpers was horrendous. Playing Wiseman away from the basket would take away from his greatest strength which is his offensive rebounding.

Wiseman is like how KAT was in college offensively. Played primarily in the paint but flashed a jumper and a post game. Once Wiseman is in the league, you will see how talented he is.

Towns was bigger and stronger when they stepped on Campus. Wiseman is a better athlete than Towns, but he is no where near as skilled as Towns was. Wiseman's likes to play like his only post move is the fadeaway (I've seen the hook and the up and under from him, but golly gee, I wish I could use both hands to count the number of times he used these moves at Memphis). The Fade is a nice move to have but for god's sake dude look up when there are two defenders on you.

[3toheadmelo]

Wiseman took and made more jumpers in college than Mitch did these last 2 years.

This is a lie. Wiseman took 3 jumpers in college, TOTAL. One came right in front of the free throw line, one came a foot off the left block, and he missed his only three attempt. Mitch took 24 this season. Albeit those 24 shots came in the same area as Wiseman's first two shots.

I am definitely buying into his shot. I’ve been watching him since he was in high school. In high school he was taking fade-away jumpers, step backs, etc. Mitch only took wide open jumpers in high school. That’s the difference.

Don't get me wrong, his form is smexy. It looks great with a consistently high release point. He just had some really nice highlights in HS/AAU, but his % on jumpers was horrendous. Playing Wiseman away from the basket would take away from his greatest strength which is his offensive rebounding.

Wiseman is like how KAT was in college offensively. Played primarily in the paint but flashed a jumper and a post game. Once Wiseman is in the league, you will see how talented he is.

Towns was bigger and stronger when they stepped on Campus. Wiseman is a better athlete than Towns, but he is no where near as skilled as Towns was. Wiseman's likes to play like his only post move is the fadeaway (I've seen the hook and the up and under from him, but golly gee, I wish I could use both hands to count the number of times he used these moves at Memphis). The Fade is a nice move to have but for god's sake dude look up when there are two defenders on you.

Mitch never shot 24 jumpers Lmfao show me video footage ball boy. And I am pretty sure Mitch only made one. Again, show me footage of it. Shot charts don’t tell the whole story.

Wiseman took like 4 or 5 jumpers and he made 3 of them. Not sure if you watched him at all this season. Stop using shot charts and watch games.

Watch on YouTube

5:12 5:44 6:14
Fact remains that he took and made more jumpers in college than Mitch did his whole career.

Wiseman is bigger than KAT btw. 7’1 with a 7’6 wingspan. KAT is 7’0 with a 7’4 wingspan. KAT did not show much of his skills in college just like Wiseman. Wiseman has more skills than just a post fade-away. Now stfu and gtfo ballboy!

[KnicksGadfly]

The other thing that I'm noticing is that we're using the lack of talent around Randle as an excuse for his short-comings. I got two words in response: Marcus Morris.

First, Morris was efficient as first option. He hit game winners, hit his threes at a high percentage. Now you might point to his poor adjustment on the Clippers as proof that it was fool's gold, but I'm actually certain he'll adjust, because he's played the role player before, in Boston. Now, I can actually give Randle some leeway here. Being a first option is no joke. What I actually hate is point #2.

Randle can't play off-ball. Morris is going to get paid close to what Randle got this off-season, with the Clippers bird rights. But when it came time for the Clippers to choose between a younger Randle and an older Morris, they went for Morris, because Morris can check wings and power forwards, and because he has a history of hitting a three. Yea, contracts were different, but the Clippers could have made it work if they needed to, and the Lakers, who were hungry to stop the Clippers from getting Morris, also had no interest in Randle. '

Until Randle can play off ball, I really don't see a good defense for him, unless we have a team that can compensate for his short-comings so hard, we'd probably win even without him.

[Jeff Van Gully]

The other thing that I'm noticing is that we're using the lack of talent around Randle as an excuse for his short-comings. I got two words in response: Marcus Morris.

First, Morris was efficient as first option. He hit game winners, hit his threes at a high percentage. Now you might point to his poor adjustment on the Clippers as proof that it was fool's gold, but I'm actually certain he'll adjust, because he's played the role player before, in Boston. Now, I can actually give Randle some leeway here. Being a first option is no joke. What I actually hate is point #2.

Randle can't play off-ball. Morris is going to get paid close to what Randle got this off-season, with the Clippers bird rights. But when it came time for the Clippers to choose between a younger Randle and an older Morris, they went for Morris, because Morris can check wings and power forwards, and because he has a history of hitting a three. Yea, contracts were different, but the Clippers could have made it work if they needed to, and the Lakers, who were hungry to stop the Clippers from getting Morris, also had no interest in Randle. '

Until Randle can play off ball, I really don't see a good defense for him, unless we have a team that can compensate for his short-comings so hard, we'd probably win even without him.

how is morris eligible for bird rights comming off of a one-year deal? he's a 4-year limit contract player. and i don't know how they could go over the cap to retain him. he's likely to be in a year-by-year high risk high reward situation like jj redick.

[DOT]

People keep mentioning Randle as a possible great 3rd option.

The Pelicans had him as the 3rd option last year. AD, Jrue, Randle. Went nowhere. Even worse, if we want to actually maximize Randle, we actually need someone like AD...great defense, attracts attention, covers up mistakes, can spread the floor somewhat. Randle isn't gonna get better teammates here...seriously, who else fits Randle better than AD? It must only be a handful of guys in this league. He is basically a dead-end.

Finally, I wanna run an exercise through my head. List the all-stars in this league. Who would Randle actually fit with, and make better? We can already cross off Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook. After that, we're left with the guys who can play with anybody in this league...Durant, Kawhi, George, Steph, AD. But Randle isn't making them better. Rather, they're compensating for Randle.

We can do a similar exercise for the contenders in this league, and see if Randle fits them as a 3rd option.
Lakers - Lebron and AD...NOPE.
Bucks - Giannis and Khris ... NOPE.
Clippers - Kawhi and George ... NOPE.

Okay, let's spread this to some of the other playoff teams.
Celtics - NOPE.
Raptors - NOPE.
Nuggets - NOPE.
Sixers - NOPE.
Heat - NOPE.

Like I said, Randle has the talent of a role player, so he better start learning how to do role player things. Like defense. And shooting. Guys like Blake Griffin and Kevin Love already have a hard time winning with their defensive deficiencies...Randle isn't even close to them. The Knicks have made their intentions clear to add a star. We need to start developing guys who can play with stars.

Did you really miss AD trade demand to LA, and his ‘rest’ through the season? NO roster was trash besides 5 or 6 guys, Elfrid Payton started 40 + games for them.

So all we need for Randle to be good is a team with no bad players and two all stars to be ahead of him

At that point, like I said, it's just not worth the hassle of building around him. You could replace him with a Marcus Morris type and have a significantly easier time if that's the hoops you gotta jump through

Plus, look at our roster and tell me we can get the talent needed to do that in the next two years. Even if we had the ability to get that talent, we would be better if we flipped Randle for someone else because he likely isn't a good fit next to them

Also, AD's "rest" didn't start until 46 games into the season, at which point they had had all 3 of AD, Jrue, and Randle healthy but were still 4 games below .500.

[Clyde_Style]

Randle is not a player to rebuild around.

Every other consideration should flow from that single point.

Whatever choices they need to make, no decisions should be due to accommodating Randle.

[KnicksGadfly]

The other thing that I'm noticing is that we're using the lack of talent around Randle as an excuse for his short-comings. I got two words in response: Marcus Morris.

First, Morris was efficient as first option. He hit game winners, hit his threes at a high percentage. Now you might point to his poor adjustment on the Clippers as proof that it was fool's gold, but I'm actually certain he'll adjust, because he's played the role player before, in Boston. Now, I can actually give Randle some leeway here. Being a first option is no joke. What I actually hate is point #2.

Randle can't play off-ball. Morris is going to get paid close to what Randle got this off-season, with the Clippers bird rights. But when it came time for the Clippers to choose between a younger Randle and an older Morris, they went for Morris, because Morris can check wings and power forwards, and because he has a history of hitting a three. Yea, contracts were different, but the Clippers could have made it work if they needed to, and the Lakers, who were hungry to stop the Clippers from getting Morris, also had no interest in Randle. '

Until Randle can play off ball, I really don't see a good defense for him, unless we have a team that can compensate for his short-comings so hard, we'd probably win even without him.

how is morris eligible for bird rights comming off of a one-year deal? he's a 4-year limit contract player. and i don't know how they could go over the cap to retain him. he's likely to be in a year-by-year high risk high reward situation like jj redick.

Oops, my fault. Non-bird rights.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/03/hoops-rumors-glossary-non-bird-rights-4.html

[FutureKnicksGM]

People keep mentioning Randle as a possible great 3rd option.

The Pelicans had him as the 3rd option last year. AD, Jrue, Randle. Went nowhere. Even worse, if we want to actually maximize Randle, we actually need someone like AD...great defense, attracts attention, covers up mistakes, can spread the floor somewhat. Randle isn't gonna get better teammates here...seriously, who else fits Randle better than AD? It must only be a handful of guys in this league. He is basically a dead-end.

Finally, I wanna run an exercise through my head. List the all-stars in this league. Who would Randle actually fit with, and make better? We can already cross off Giannis, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook. After that, we're left with the guys who can play with anybody in this league...Durant, Kawhi, George, Steph, AD. But Randle isn't making them better. Rather, they're compensating for Randle.

We can do a similar exercise for the contenders in this league, and see if Randle fits them as a 3rd option.
Lakers - Lebron and AD...NOPE.
Bucks - Giannis and Khris ... NOPE.
Clippers - Kawhi and George ... NOPE.

Okay, let's spread this to some of the other playoff teams.
Celtics - NOPE.
Raptors - NOPE.
Nuggets - NOPE.
Sixers - NOPE.
Heat - NOPE.

Like I said, Randle has the talent of a role player, so he better start learning how to do role player things. Like defense. And shooting. Guys like Blake Griffin and Kevin Love already have a hard time winning with their defensive deficiencies...Randle isn't even close to them. The Knicks have made their intentions clear to add a star. We need to start developing guys who can play with stars.

Did you really miss AD trade demand to LA, and his ‘rest’ through the season? NO roster was trash besides 5 or 6 guys, Elfrid Payton started 40 + games for them.

So all we need for Randle to be good is a team with no bad players and two all stars to be ahead of him

At that point, like I said, it's just not worth the hassle of building around him. You could replace him with a Marcus Morris type and have a significantly easier time if that's the hoops you gotta jump through

Plus, look at our roster and tell me we can get the talent needed to do that in the next two years. Even if we had the ability to get that talent, we would be better if we flipped Randle for someone else because he likely isn't a good fit next to them

Also, AD's "rest" didn't start until 46 games into the season, at which point they had had all 3 of AD, Jrue, and Randle healthy but were still 4 games below .500.

It always helps to have starting caliber players starting and rotation worthy players playing in the rotation.

I never said keep Randle. Trade him to a team that needs a 3rd/4th option or 6th man. All I said was that he was not trash. We could of just traded Morris for Harkless straight up because of lame as reasons as “he was not part of the future” and “he takes usage from our young players”, but we got something back. If we are trading Randle for trash, on a worse contract (Batum), you need to get something back.

[KnicksGadfly]

Did you really miss AD trade demand to LA, and his ‘rest’ through the season? NO roster was trash besides 5 or 6 guys, Elfrid Payton started 40 + games for them.

So all we need for Randle to be good is a team with no bad players and two all stars to be ahead of him

At that point, like I said, it's just not worth the hassle of building around him. You could replace him with a Marcus Morris type and have a significantly easier time if that's the hoops you gotta jump through

Plus, look at our roster and tell me we can get the talent needed to do that in the next two years. Even if we had the ability to get that talent, we would be better if we flipped Randle for someone else because he likely isn't a good fit next to them

Also, AD's "rest" didn't start until 46 games into the season, at which point they had had all 3 of AD, Jrue, and Randle healthy but were still 4 games below .500.

It always helps to have starting caliber players starting and rotation worthy players playing in the rotation.

I never said keep Randle. Trade him to a team that needs a 3rd/4th option or 6th man. All I said was that he was not trash. We could of just traded Morris for Harkless straight up because of lame as reasons as “he was not part of the future” and “he takes usage from our young players”, but we got something back. If we are trading Randle for trash, on a worse contract (Batum), you need to get something back.

Nah, nah, nah, don't disrespect Morris by putting him in the same convo as Randle. It's perfectly understandable why we could garner a pick from Morris and not from Randle. The comparison you're looking for are the Walsh Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford trades. Raise their values and dump them as soon as we can.

If we can scam a team, by all means, go for it, but the Isiah Thomases and Phil Jacksons in this league are largely getting weeded out. Even the Bulls got rid of Garpax. We won't do this, but if we can't scam a team for Randle, we'd really help our team more by benching Randle for 2020-2021, and then buying him out. As for a Charlotte deal, eh, taking on Batum means we free up 4 mill in 2021-2022, and we don't need to play Randle minutes anymore. I'll take a 2nd, though.

I think the difference between you and me is that you still have hope and faith in Randle's abilities, as evidenced by "3rd/4th option," which implies a belief that he actually might work out here and become part of a winner. I don't. I see an ability to put up empty numbers, an inability to play defense or shoot, and an inability to mesh with the true stars of the game, the guys who actually can deliver quality wins.

Right now, Randle doesn't even stand up to David Lee, who worked to get his shot to a strong level, could pass, and had a glaring defensive weakness.

[dakomish23]

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